Interesting, so Honda's claims about getting closer to EPA fuel economy numbers seems accurate?

The numbers seemed more accurate during my 50-mile drive in it (done with normal, versus "easy," driving for max mileage). We'll know more in a few days. Two of our editors took both cars to San Francisco and they'll be back on Friday with much better fuel economy figures.

Hello Karl,
Since HCH has more torque, I was expecting that HCH would be quicker than Prius. Also, I would appreciate if you could throw some light on which car i.e., HCH or Prius is using better technology and is a better car as far as performance and gas milage is concerned.
Thank you,

We'll have definite numbers (fuel mileage, acceleration, etc.) when we post our comparison test in a couple weeks (should be cool video, too!). We'll also go into the technical differences between the cars.
 
From my experience the Prius just had more get-up-and-go, and I believe it was about two seconds quicker in 0-60 and 1/4-mile testing (10 vs 12 seconds and 16 vs 18 seconds for Prius/Civc, respectively). But, it did seem like the Civic was getting consistently better mileage, and it is now capable of motivating the car on electricity alone. It also seemed more efficient in terms of battery usage (would assist the engine even when battery was nearly drained, and would regain its charge very quickly -- in both areas it seemed better than Prius).
 
Again, I (and you) will know more when we finalize the comparison test (my editors just got back from San Francisco in the cars late today, so next week I should be able to get concrete mileage figures from them).

Am I correct in my understanding that Toyota relies on electric motors at the wheels, while Honda has added an "electric boost" which is contained wholly within the transmission case?
 
If this is true, then it would seem Honda's technology is more applicable across a wide range of vehicles, without substantial redesign. You could just "drop it in" as a new engine/transmission combination.

It's tricky to compare raw torque numbers for the IC and electric components of a hybrid, but given that hybrids favor the electric motor for initial acceleration (higher torque and efficiency at low
speed), the slower acceleration of the HCH is understandable.
In the HCH, the engine has 110HP/123ft-lbs of torque; the electric
motor has 20HP/76ft-lbs of torque. The Prius' engine has 76HP/82ft-lbs of torque, and the electric motor has 67HP/295ft-lbs or torque. The Prius therefore should have much greater initial acceleration than the HCH because of its extremely strong electric motor.
 
Why does the HCH get better gas mileage than the Prius in typical driving? It's interesting to note that the HCH gets about 15% better
gas mileage and also accelerates about 15% more slowly. This is what you'd expect for a gas-only car. Does the HCH avoid using the engine more on acceleration than the Prius does? Hard to know
without understanding each car's power balance scheduling programs.
 
It's been reported that Priuses get near CAFE numbers when driven in "pulse" mode: maximum initial acceleration, to take advantage of the electric motor, and slow deceleration, to take advantage of regenerative braking. When driven with moderate
acceleration and quick braking (typical rush hour), the Prius fares poorly. It will be interesting to see if the HCH requires a different driving technique given its different proportioning of gas and electric power.

Great analysis. Thanks shauns.
 
I can now report that the final numbers for the Prius and Civic Hybrid (after driving to San Francisco and back from LA) resulted in better MPG numbers for the Prius. Interestingly, on the drive up the Civic seemed to be doing better (mostly highway driving). But in San Francisco the Prius did better, and the increased power (from the electric motor) really helped out on the hills in S.F., giving the Prius much better mileage up there than Civic. An advantage the Civic didn't recover on the trip back.
 
Don't forget that the Prius is noticeably quicker, so quicker and better MPG (48 Prius, 42 Civic Hybrid) are relatively indicative of the final finishing order in this test...
 
All of us still like the Civic Hybrid a lot, and still think it is the more fun car to drive with better design (in and out). I'm sure there will be plenty of customers for both, and all of them will be happy with their purchase.

Hello Karl,
I am a big admirer of Honda motor company, but in this case it seems that Prius is beating HCH. Going by your analysis it seems that Prius is better than HCH as far as MPG, Quickness and Space is concerned. I would like to know if you also think that Prius is better than HCH, if not than what is it that makes HCH better or compatible to Prius, and if you were to buy, which car would you pick?
Thank you,

That's a tough question, because they are both very good cars (I know I must sound like a broken record whenever I'm responding to which car is "better" between the Toyota and Honda offering...).
 
I think I would go with the Honda because it is just so fun to drive. The Prius is fine to drive, and no one will find it distasteful, but the Civic is actually "sporty" because of the great steering feel and controlled body roll. Plus I really like the Civic's interior and exterior design better. The cargo and acceleration advantages of the Prius wouldn't be that important to me, because neither would be my focus if I bought an economy sedan. The fuel mileage was pretty close between them and is, as we all know, highly dependent on driving style/conditions.
 
That said, if someone were to ask my "recommendation" between these two (meaning my personal "driving fun" bias is out the window, and I'm only thinking in terms of which car accomplishes its overall task of being and efficient hybrid vehicle better), I'd have to recommend the Prius over the Civic Hybrid.

I agree with you completely, karl. I bought a 2006 Civic Hybrid a couple of weeks ago after renting a 2005 Prius to test it out, and while the Prius definitely had better mileage and a true electric-only mode, it wasn't nearly as much fun as the Civic, it had worse visibility, and its interior just felt cheap and clumsy.
 
For me, the Civic was the better car, but the Prius is a better hybrid.

Hello Karl,
Thank you for your nice comments. A lot will be discovered about HCH after its long term road test and I won't be surprised if including myself many people will change their view the way they percieve 2006 HCH. Going by my current information about HCH, I feel that if I really need a hybrid car that gets good milage than PRIUS is the choice as it not only gets better gas milage but also is quicker, has more cargo and passenger volume and because of its distinguish exterior style its much easier to make a "GREEN" statement.
As for 2006 HCH, I am sure it is a very good car, looks better, handles better and be more fun to drive than PRIUS, but if that is my criteria than I rather buy a regular Honda Civic sedan because there is not a substancial MPG difference between regular H Civic and HCHybrid, and H Civic is atleast $1500 cheaper, more power and fun to drive than HCH.
  
I was trying to find out what kind of people would buy HCH?
My guess:
1)Honda loyalist
2) People who care more about being GREEN with STYLE but may not care much about the MPG difference compared to PRIUS
3) People who do not care much about the CARGO volume
  
But no matter what, I am sure that both are equally good cars, there is nothing right and wrong when you are dealing with Honda or Toyota, and it all depends on ones need, I love Honda and if I want an economy car than its going to be regular Honda Civic.I am sure I do not have to tell you why:)
Thank you,

Which car is better for a 400 mile round trip commute that is mostly highway with some mountain driving to about the 4000 foot level? This is from the Sierra Nevadas to the Bay Area and LA thru the Grapevine. Also the summers require air conditioning and winters with some snow driving?

I live in Vermont, and I have been told that the Prius doesn't do very well in on hills in the snow and the HCH. does much. Does anyone have any knowledge about this. It has made me hold back on getting a Prius.
Thanks.

It would be great if toyota and honda offered these in a station wagon style.
A lot of us don't want or need a crossover or suv.
A decent handling hybred offering the extra cargo capacity of a station wagon would be a huge plus.
RichM

Can anyone tell me if the Honda Civic Hybrid with its 1.3 litre engine performs as well as the Civic Sport with at 2 litre engine? I am presently debating which one to buy..Mazda Starter