2007 Toyota Tundra: How Big is Too Big?
How big is the all-new 2007 Toyota Tundra? Let's just say that if you're under six-feet tall and need to manually tune the radio, you might want to invest in a prosthetic arm extension. The reach to that tuning knob was enough to test the ongoing physical therapy for my recently dislocated right shoulder. But don't let the size of those climate controls scare you. Although they look as big (and heavy) as metal hockey pucks, they twist with relative ease and shouldn't cause any muscle strain.
Yes, Toyota's Tundra has effectively shed the mantle of "almost full-size" and gone right into the realm of "mine-is-bigger-than-yours" posturing against the domestic entries. This is good in the areas of drivetrain performance and interior storage, as both are class leading. Our test car had the i-Force 5.7-liter V8 engine that makes 381 horsepower and 401 pound-feet of torque. It's hooked to a well-executed six-speed that effortlessly flings the crew cab up to highway speeds (at least when it's carrying one passenger and no payload -- details on its loaded/towing performance to follow soon...). And the storage layout in the center console allows for a multitude of stuff to be contained and organized.
However, this same "bigness" means the aforementioned extended reach to common controls. That element, along with the sheer "plasticity" of the interior panels and overly "industrialized" styling elements (including the climate control knobs and metallic-themed gauge cluster surround) left me a bit cold on the cabin. There's an argument to be made for tough, easy-to-clean surfaces in a full-size truck, so I won't call the hard plastic panels an undeniable detractor, but I personally prefer the new Chevrolet Silverado's cabin. It just has a warmer, friendlier (and easier-to-use) feel to it. The Tundra crew cab does provide plenty of room for passengers, front and rear, so opting for the even bigger (YIKES!) CrewMax seems unnecessary to me (not to mention a recipe for hyperextensions).
Not everything about the Tundra's size translates to physical endurance. The rear tailgate comes with those gas struts to ease operation, and the seats are both comfortable and (in our Limited test vehicle) covered in supple leather. The exterior mirrors are excellent for trailer-towing, but they didn't power fold on our test truck (like they do on our long-term Silverado) and that made it a pain to fit the truck in many parking areas. The rear doors open to nearly 90 degrees, and I really like the clean integration of the rear door relases into the rest of the body. In fact, I like the exterior stying of the truck better than any other full-sizer out there, with the possible exception of the Dodge Ram (I'd like to see them next to each other to know for sure).
You can read our First Drive on the Tundra and get more detailed information regarding specs and options, but my quick take is simple: If you need a fully capable full-size truck this one now competes head-to-head with the domestics. But the interior design has me leaning toward Chevy and/or Dodge. I don't see it dethroning the Ford F-150's sales position or trashing any single domestic maker's market share...yet. But you could have said the same thing in 1983 about the Camry...
If only we had a comparison test on these trucks coming soon.
- Posted by
- Karl Brauer January 8, 2007, 5:45 AM
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- Chevrolet, Domestic Manufacturers Problems/Challenges
Wow. Nice blog entry. I was expecting something completely different just based on your past comments concerning this truck. This pretty much sums up what I've been thinking since seeing / hearing previews of the new Tundra (except that I *don't* care for the exterior styling). Styling aside, it seems to have most of what it needs to finally be truly competitive with the other full-sized trucks, except for the loyal "truck" buyers. That will change over time, just not right away.
As others have said, I don't see the Tundra doing much more to the segment than the Titan has. What that means is that the domestics need to continue work on improving in other segments, so that the inevitable splitting up of the truck markets they've been depending on doesn't really hurt them. GM at least, seems to be taking this to heart. The latest non-truck GM product is finally fully competitive, and seems to be gaining ground in potential buyers' eyes. With increased strength in the other segments the loss of some truck-share isn't going to hurt like it might have five years ago. There's still time.
I'd been waiting to read about this vehicle for a long time. The power figure blew away. 0-60 time and quarter mile were crazy, like another Ram SRT-10. Ford are you listening? 300hp doesn't cut it.
Anyway what you said summed up what I felt about the Tundra. It may be good but it doesn't offer the classic good looks of an American pickup which is important for some. I also think the Tundra's excessive size will come to haunt it later as not everyone wants something that big. The interior needs work to me - the Silverado trumps it in this regard. The Tundra is too wide and the different colors doesn't work for me.
I'm pretty impressed by the Tundra overall. It's got size, power, safety and and space. However it will not greatly impact the rest of the market as the other 4 trucks are all good in their own regard.
Karl a few more things. What did you think of the Tundra's material quality and is it better than the GM? What was the as tested price? Also when is the next fullsize truck shootout? It seems like its time for one since all players except the F-150 have changed.
The engine is impressive but other than that I dont see anything too groundbreaking. Yes it has great storage and easy to use controls but so do the GM trucks. It's really all about the powertrain with this vehicle, plain and simple. The Titan is in trouble big time. Same for the Ram. Ford will be launching an updated F150 in late 2008 and I'm pretty sure they will be more than willing to one up Toyota when the new model comes. Also, GM will be putting the 6 speed auto into most 1500 series pickups for 2008 MY so the Toyota's powertrain wont be that much better than the GM trucks with 6L.
Karl, have you seen the bench seat interior? I liked it a bit more than the console, which almost never happens. But anyway, I agree with you- the Tundra's almost TOO big!
I disagree with Edmund's stance on the CrewMax, however. Even if the space inside borders on excessive, using the Ram MegaCab as a basis for comparison isn't appropriate: the MegaCab has a 160-in wheelbase with a 6.5 ft bed while the CrewMax has a standard 145-in wheelbase and a 5.5 foot bed. Basically, instead of trimming the truck's length as Chevrolet and Ford opt to do with their 5.5-foot bed length crew cabs, Toyota added that 12" back to the cab. It's an intriguing concept that might actually pan out given pickups' terminal lack of covered storage space.
But I agree...your sentiments are surprising!
I agree that Toyota started slowly with car sales and caught Detroit napping but that isnt going to happen with this segment. first of all Detroit has learned what happens when you dont pay enough attention to a segment (like midsize cars) and there is no surprise element anymore. Secondly, pickup trucks are WAY to profitable for the Big 3 to sit back and say "we aren't worried about Toyota" and they are determined to keep their grip on this segment. I cant see Toyota making many upgrades to the Tundra in the near future because they have put all their cards on the table. Meanwhile GM has a 6 speed and hybrid in the works for their pickups and probably more tricks we dont even know about. Then you have the pending redesigns of the F150 and Ram plus an improved Titan for '08. Toyota will not be experiencing the same type of meteoric rise they experienced with midsize cars with this truck.
Sometimes I wonder how it is that millions of people buy pickups that are so big - when I have to climb a ladder to drop something over the bed's walls, there's something silly going on. This generation of half-tons looks bigger in some dimensions than the only slightly old F-250s we use at work.
But unless former Tundra buyers were buying them because of the smallness, this Tundra will sell better. Obviously it won't be like cars - Toyota did so well with cars because the domestics sucked, and they don't in this instance (same goes for any hopes of the Aura taking a big chunk of the market). Every sale is going to be hard won.
Carlismo
I agree. This mine-is-bigger-than-yours mentality that pervades this market segment is just plain silly.
Who cares if a 1/2-ton truck can tow 10+K, or match the Queen Mary with external dimensions. I just want a truck that can haul 4x8 paneling flat on the bed floor, and haul my 3K utility trailer to the county landfill with yard waste. Hey... the old T100 could due that, as can the new Ridgeline.
I see this new Tundra (and all the other super-sized 1/2-tons) as gross overkill. In terms of payload they still carry about the same as normal-sized 1/2-ton pickups of 20 years ago, yet now have the GVW and curb weight of a 20-year-old 3/4-ton. I don't call that moving the bar up...
Size has gone out of control. The new Tacoma is too big. I suppose we will have a new "compact" size before long, something like the old Ranger size.
Tundra specs including payloads, etc. are now up on Straightline blog.
http://66.160.188.111/Straightline/2114
As with midsize cars becoming the de-facto family size, with so-called large cars being primarily the domain of police departments and retirees, I see midsize trucks evolving into the "new 1/2-ton size," and that the current full-size 1/2-ton becoming the "new 3/4-ton models.
30 years ago, any pickup with a GVW of over 6K was considered a 3/4-ton. Now most 1/2-tons have GVWs well over 6K, with Ford even offering an F-150 model with an over 8K GVW. That's nuts.
Yep. That's what appears to be happening. Eventually the smallest will be big enough that a "new" class will be introduced by one or more of the manufacturers to fill the compact size classes again.
I can't wait to hear real world gas mileage numbers on the Tundra. I'll bet it gets less than 18 mpg on the highway doing 70 mph. I heard the sticker says 20 mpg. Wouldn't count on getting anywhere near that kind of mileage.
I have some launch dates for different body configurations from a "very reliable" source =). Thanks dad!
The new Tundra's have launched; The B-cab ( 2 door ) & the C-cab (extended cab) are being produced in Texas now.
These trucks should be available at all dealerships.
If you want a full 4 door cab ( D-cab ), that vehicle will launch in
Feb/07 ( first produced at TMMI in Indiana, and then in July/07 at TMMTX in Texas --but they are the same vehicles).
Patrick
Maybe that means "delightful" small cars are a figment of the media imagination.
Cars just keep getting bigger and bigger.
"I cant see Toyota making many upgrades to the Tundra in the near future because they have put all their cards on the table."
I agree but there is one thing I see happening. Since Toyota purchased some od Isuzu, I see a Diesel Tundra in the works. Most likely it would be 5.0l so it can be shared with the Sequoia, 4runner, Fjcruiser ect. That'll reduce HP some but will make for SCARY torque! The plus side is definately the MUCH improved MPG of using a diesel.
beyond that, Toyota is DONE in the full size truck market. The only other thing that bothers me is this:
"How will the Sequoia Look?" since they've been the same c-pillar forward. Hopefully that means a fold flat 3rd row and EVEN MORE sales for toyota.
-Cj
Autoboy, there will eventually be a line of "heavyduty" trucks to go head to head with the GM twins, Ford Super Duty, and the Dodge as well as a diesel. This was included in the Tundra design from the start as the frame is rediculously stiff and rigid, its actually "over built".
Nissan too will build HD versions of their fullsize pickups when the Titan get redesigned in a few years. No, the Japanese brands are not "done" with their trucks.
There not getting Isuzus Diesel technology. Gm bought all the rights to Isuzu's diesels. A Duramax is an Isuzu.
As Ive said before I believe Toyota has a diesel in development or thats already developed.
LP
Interesting! I would like to drive the New Tundra but I really want to see and drive the New Sequoia.
You forgot to mention the alphabet soup of driver aids... VSC, TRAC, A-TRAC (4wd), Auto-LSD.
This is the first truck with stablity control standard I beleive. While I'm sure many will welcome it (safety urbanites, and Toyota mechanics in a couple years), for someone in rural areas who uses the truck as such and spends alot of time off-road or in snow, I see these electronic do-dads not a good choice in a truck. ABS goes bonkers with TRAC and VSC working in tough conditions. How long before the system/brakes overheat? I've experienced it in a 4runner. Annoying, and no way to shut them off either.
A Locker or Mech LSD would be a better choice for a real truck. And where's the manual tranny?
Smaller, sportier version:
The pics of the regular cab, short bed version with sports package looks sharp! I bet that thing moves! Hello Lightning competitor (if Lightnings were still made..)! TRD already had a prototype supercharger for the 5.7L at the LA auto show much earlier last year.
I didn't think the new Tundra looked good until I saw the reg cab, shortbed version.. somehow that stubby, stocky form appeals to me..
Sat in the Tundra at the Detroit auto show. I agree about the dash - it's a reach to get to the climate controls/nav/etc. I don't know what's up with that dash - it's like two design teams had conflicting ideas so they decided to put two center consoles into the truck. Looks lousy IMHO.
Also, I felt like I needed a ladder to get in this thing, and I never had that feeling with an F-150 (not that there isn't a step-up).
Other than that the interior seemed nice.
If Toyota sells a boatload of this truck, then it isn't "too big".
The only vehicles I know of failing to sell because they were "too big" are the Hummer H1 and the Ford Excursion. And that happened in part because fuel prices skyrocketed for a time. Given that gas prices are going down again, how would those vehicles do today?
demoncleaner,
Toyota has installed a button that disables the VSC/TRAC and engages the LSD on the rear wheels...on 2WD versions as well..and they didn't feel the need to have a manual trans. since they've put the sequential shifter in all of them, though, even I agree, it's not the same as a manual.