Edmunds CarPool

I havent driven any of the new G's but have more than enough experience with a few G35 sedans and coupes. My younger brother has a 2002 330 manual coupe with Sport pkg, and Ive driven the new 335 coupe/sedan, and countless E36/E46 M3's so I have more than enough seat time in both the 3 and the G.
 
Ive always felt that German cars in particular had a certain "heavy" feel about them. Not in the terms of lbs of weight but they just have that substantial feel even after 100's of 1000's of miles. The G while stout, didnt give me that same feeling as it felt a bit hollow (as is the 350Z), and it wasnt in the same ballpark when it came to refinement and that looks to be still the case with the new G. I do give Infiniti credit for making a great sport coupe/sedan but you have to get the details right and thats what makes BMW stand out.
 
Im still puzzled about that aformentioned "heaviness" of the German cars as Im not sure how they get thier cars to feel that way while making the cars drive smaller than they appear. I guess it comes from the autobahn breeding.

I love the looks of both BMW 335i & G37! I never drove the G35 coupe (only the Z-350) nor a new BMW in decades (last one was a 323i for those that don't know is not a Mazda). Kudos for Nissan/Infiniti to try to match it.

"Im still puzzled about that aformentioned "heaviness" of the German cars as Im not sure how they get thier cars to feel that way while making the cars drive smaller than they appear. I guess it comes from the autobahn breeding."
 
Didn't you know that BMW can defy the laws of physics? :-)

That heavy feeling isn't for me, but I can see its appeal and it's become an important part of German car character. Besides that, the new 3-series coupe looks better than the 3-series ever has, whereas the G37 looks blobby compared to the previous generation (which I think would've looked perfect with the new headlights on that body).
 
The link between the 350z and G coupes will continue to be a big selling point, since people like to take sides with their car purchase

G37 gets the nod for interior too. the 3's interior is plain and boring without nav and of course you must contend with iDrive if you choose it- lose lose situation. Also, when is BMW gonna install some nice looking backlit gauges??
 
As far as styling, the original G coupe had a flawless exterior while the same can be said for the current 335. I'm up in the air over the new G37's skin- seems a over done.

I haven't driven either of the cars, so I have no "seat of the pants" opinion. For me the price of the G is a deterent; the price of the 335 is a barrier.
 
I'm assuming the price difference will be similar to the sedans, around $6k. There is a slight chance of convincing the wife that spending near $40k is ok. There is no chance near $50k. I got $30k approved, I'm trying to work my way up.
Leasing is not an option, as I drive too many miles.
 
With that restriction, would you opt for a 328, or go with the G?

This is the best picture of a G37!
That red coupe is so hot!
 
I'm sold on the styling of the Infiniti.
BMW cannot get me into that drab interior, with no distinct center console area.
No matter how well a BMW drives, I cannot stand seeing such an ugly thing in my garage.

Norm
 
Car and Driver did the comparison of the G35 and the 328i sedans and came to the conclusion that although the G won on almost all performance criteria, the 328i was more refined. In other words very similiar to Karl's comments without the performance numbers of the 335.
 
I personally am waiting for either the 128 or 135 depending on the pricing. But I think the 328i gets a bad rap from people looking for ultimate performance numbers that will never use them.
 
I drive my friends 328i all the time, and anyone would be hard pressed to call it underpowered.

BMW's smallest engine models are always their best sellers.
the 328i getting a bad rap? Only with you crazy vroom vroom folks.
 
In the real world, just about every BMW you see on the road is a 328i.

Brett - I don`t think Karl's comments were similar to Car and Driver which said the G was better in most areas. Karl said the BMW was better in the following areas ;
 
better steering,
a more willing engine,
superior ride quality and handling,
a more functional rear seat and a
better manual shifter
 
A long list compared to better seats, less body movement and possibly appearance.

I agree that the G37 has a bit more visual impact but its a bit too trendy for me nor does it have any surface detail. The last G didnt look as bloated and its aged more than it should. The 335i looks lean/atheletic and the design is TIMELESS! This car will still look good 10-15 years from now.
 
If I was in the market for another coupe in the $30-45K range Id consider both of these but Id probably end up with the 335i on looks alone.

the front end of the G37 is too plain and lacks aggressiveness. It looks too much like the old car, but doesnt look as good as the old car. the 335 wins in styling on the outside but loses in interior styling. Of course the G37 will win in price if you are buying and not leasing.

1487, I'm on the opposite side of the coin: The G37 looks killer on the outside, better than the old one and better than the 335-- Kudos for NO flame surfacing/surface "detail"! But the Bimmer's interior style and excecution takes the cake.

Hi all,
 
I've seen so many articles on the 3-series, the Infiniti's, even the A4 every now and then -- and so few on the car I ultimately purchased -- that I've got to ask: does anyone other than myself consider the Acura TL to be a highly-compelling entry-luxury sport sedan? :)
 
Now, I understand we're talking RWD (or AWD -- altho it seems to me most BMW and Infiniti enthusiasts really only talk about the RWD variants) vs. FWD, but I've got a 2nd question: how many of you folks live in snowbelt states?
 
I'm in the Chicago area, and although I've seen blogs talking about throwing concrete blocks or sandbags in the trunk with good snow tires for the winter, I crossed off RWD from the outset -- not out of desire, but what I saw as a safety necessity. Which left FWD and AWD.
 
So in the Dec.04 timeframe, when I was shopping, you had the 325xi/330xi, the G35x, and the A4 quattro on the AWD side, and the TL on the FWD side. (Lexus IS was RWD...plus the '05 design did nothing for me...so it didn't even make my short list.)
 
I seriously considered all 4 (plus others) and I'll admit I went in hoping I could afford the Germans. Yet after months of research and visiting dealers, my conclusion was that, HANDS DOWN, the TL offered the best combination of performance, luxury, interior space and features -- all at the best price and with a (2 years thus far) superb dealer experience. I could not get an AWD BMW, Infiniti, or Audi priced even close to what I got the TL for, even giving up on major (or at the time, unique) options present on my car such as navi and 5.1 DVD-A surround. So I made my decision and to this day, I've got no regrets.
 
On the budget I had, I don't think I could have made a better choice for a car that hit as many of the sweet spots as possible. And yet -- I see very few Edmunds postings about my ride-of-choice... and I find that somewhat odd. My eyes tell me I made a popular choice, as I see tons of post-'04 TL's on the road... around Chicago. So is it a matter of location? :)
 
Unless I'm missing something, I still think today, if you were going to purchase a new car and draw a line in the sand on price (say $35k flat), the TL will match or beat the BMW, Infiniti, and Audi in all the categories I mention above.... but the dearth of articles once again... is really puzzling.
 
So someone tell me -- what am I missing? Maybe I need to run some TMV numbers again, but unless you're willing to pay thousands of dollars more, I don't see how the TL's performance/luxury/options-for-the-money factor can be beat.
 
On a final note, I'm not looking for someone to convince me I didn't make the best choice -- for me -- but I do think I took a very logical / facts-based approach to the initial research, then added the desire / lust factor after viewing and driving in person... and I would think a lot of people dealing with snow would have come to the same conclusion... so where's the love, Edmunds?
 
Should I be pinging Daniel Pund for a snowbelt state $35k luxury sports sedan comparo where a TL will leave a BMW 328i in the (snow) dust? :) (and just try touching a 328xi for that price in the first place...the TMV in my zip code for a stripped 328xi with zero options other than 6sp auto and metallic paint is over $35k right there...yet I can get a fully loaded non-type S TL with navi for a TMV of just under $35k...)

rennf, I'm curious what responses we'll see to your comment above. I think you gave it plenty of good thought and said what was on your mind well. I'm guessing some people will say you're talking about an orange compared to a bunch of apples. I think it would be like me saying a person could get a fully loaded Legacy GT and with the money he or she saved, customize it to run circles around all the apples rain/snow or shine.
 
You can also check out the comments left on Karl's entry on May 21st (http://66.160.188.111/karl/518) to get an idea of where some of the people who frequent these blogs are from. Karl also mentioned the origins of some of the others on the Edmunds editorial staff.

The TL is a great car if you're not an autocross fanatic.
...and why would you take a midsized sedan to an autocross anyways...
 
I see lots of new TLs on the road too.
The new TL-S also won reviews and races against the new G35, being more highly track tuned. It handles better than the rwd, but softer G35.
 
As you can tell from Mr. Karl Brauer owning a Ford GT, he's not as much of a "luxury car" buyer as a "sport" buyer.

I thought the original G35 coupe was a gorgeous car, far superior to the agreeably handsome 3-Series coupe of the day. But in their current iterations, the G37 has gone all blobby and puffy, while the 3 got more lithe and lean. I'm sorry, but I just can't warm up to this car like I did to its predecessor.

Here in the suburbs north of Dallas the Acura TL is the clear sales winner relative to the BMW 3 series and the Infiniti G. Unlike Chicago, winter weather is almost a non-issue. The basic tradeoff is the more exclusive BMW potentially helps a guy pick up babes, but he has to pay big bucks for both the car and its maintenance. The Japanese brands, especially the Acura TL, are too common to impress women, but they rarely break down and are relatively inexpensive to own. All above have better handling than will ever be needed on a grid pattern of wide flat concrete streets.

Nationwide, the TL is the #2 in sales, behind the sea of BMW 3-series, selling over double the second place TL.
 
It might just be that the 3-series' styling is now so on the verge of Camry-esque inoffensive, you don't even notice them anymore.

The basic tradeoff is the more exclusive BMW potentially helps a guy pick up babes,
 
Sad commentary on the women of Dallas.
 
but he has to pay big bucks for both the car and its maintenance.
 
The acura costs money to maintain. BMWs literally have 4 years of free maintenance. My last BMW - a 2006 330i - cost me 35.7k. A TL runs 32-33k. Not exactly a big gulf in price.
 
The TL will cost far more to operate over 4 years than a BMW. There is no way around that fact.

The TL, partly by being FWD, is much larger inside. Even in big cars like that, I think most buyers will take size/comfort over dynamics. The TL still looks really good, too.
 
But for people who drive hard, it's just too powerful for FWD. Luckily most people don't.

blueguydotcom, Edmunds.com disagrees with your unverified fact.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/acura/tl/100810912/cto.html
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/bmw/3series/100814243/cto.html
 
Please comment. Ha!
 
P.S. I drive 50,000 miles in 2 years. BMW will only give me 2 years free maintainence.

Bill, come on, have some common sense. The warranty is 4 yr/50k miles. If you drive 50k miles in 2 years on a brand new any car...well there's an unkind word for that sort of person. Let's just say, you're throwing money away.
 
As for edmunds TCO - the data is extremely flawed. It lists a BMW as having $2200 insurance rates - never bothering to take Zip Codes into consideration. That's just bad design. I paid less than half that for my 03 and my 06 330is. Strangely, the insurance for the TL is even higher on at $2400.
 
BTW, you should take a look at those figures again. Maintenance costs on the TL:
 
$373 $660 $590
 
Maintenance costs on the BMW:
 
$0 $0 $0
 
So using Edmunds suspect data you get $600 more in insurance over 3 years and $2k more for maintenance.
 
For your peculiar circumstances maybe a lease is out of the question. For those of us who drive 15k or fewer miles, a BMW lease is a steal as it ends up costing the same or even less than a G, IS, TL, etc.

Nothing wrong with the TL, and for a FWD car it's even surprisingly fun to drive.
 
But ulitmately it is a front-wheel drive car. That old joke about, "Sure, BMWs handle well, but how many people can traverse Mulholland Drive on their way to work?"
 
No many...but I'm one of them. The difference in driving pleasure between a 3 Series and TL (yes, even on my daily commute) easily justifies the increased cost of the 3 Series. And as noted, if you take maintenance and resale value into account (which leasing does) the "price advantage" of the TL pretty much evaporates.
 
As for snow, I grew up in Denver. I drove either a 1969 Plymouth GTX or a 1976 Plymouth Arrow for most of my high-school years (later on I had FWD Carroll Shelby Shadows). Both Plymouths were rear-wheel drive and neither was great in snow (honestly, the Arrow just flat sucked). I used all-season tires and prudent driving behavior and never had an issue. Thus the talk of having front-wheel drive for weather purposes (let's not even get into SUVs...) has never really worked for me.
 
Chicago's winters are probably harsher than Denver's, and for people who live high in the mountains I can appreciate the need for FWD (and if they really carry a lot of stuff and/or tow on a regular basis SUVs make good sense too). But most people living in most cities certainly COULD get by with neither FWD nor AWD. Especially now that nearly every car has traction/stability control (and every car WILL have it by 2012).
 
One other point about Acura and FWD -- in my mind it's what has kept the division from ever attaining Lexus' level of success. Acura even had a few years head start, but they've never had the impact on the market -- or made the kind of profit -- that Lexus has. Why? No rear-wheel drive (yeah-yeah, NSX right? Doesn't count because too expensive and too limited use). Toyota was serious about having a luxury division, and thus they started with RWD immediately and have only increased the RWD offerings since. The rest is history.

Karl, in theory a basic BMW 328i sedan would be a great car for the money, but the ones I've seen on dealer lots are loaded with lots of accessories that add more cost than value. Similar problem with Audi too. Is this "too much extra crap" price vs. value problem just a Dallas area phenomenon? Do people special order to keep the price down to the mid 30s? Honda and Acura tend to be relatively good values here because of the lack of accessories for dealers to order and intense competition among multiple dealers.
 
The Lexus LS has always offered RWD and a V8. I think Americans will pay extra for damn near any car or truck if it comes with a V8.
 
blueguydotcom, only a small percentage of women in Dallas are so shallow that a BMW is going to make any difference. However, the Acura TL is so common that it fails to impress anyone. Regarding maintenance, coworkers of mine with BMWs complain about larger than expected repair bills and the time their cars spend in the shop. This could be a specific dealership problem unrelated to the car. However, I almost never see Infiniti, Lexus, or Acura owners driving dealer loaner cars.

Thanks to all for the thought-provoking responses. In retrospect I should have given the Subie LGT a mention as an obvious snowbelt candidate -- but the truth is the luxury quotient just wasn't there for me (YMMV) and I didn't give it much consideration.
 
Another reason I brought this topic up is that my 2nd car (driven by fiance) is a much more, err, humble econo sedan and when we replace that one in another few years I've given some thought to giving her the TL and buying something else for me.
 
Presuming I'm on a sub-$30k budget I'd given thought to a used e46 MT 330xi although I secretly lust for a used M3. I also flirt with the idea of a smaller, more tossable vehicle -- the TL is a great cruiser but feels too big sometimes. Several of blueguydotcom's posts have got me thinking I should give the MINI a test drive sometime.
 
Anyways, back to topic, all in all I absolutely agree the G37 is the natural comparo contender with the 3-series. But I still like the idea of a snowbelt state comparo... or an Edmunds article "mythbusting" the notion that RWD in snow = inherently dangerous?

Karl, thank you for re-reminding people what "true cost of ownership" means. So many get all bent out of shape over MSRPs on cars without really comparing content or the other factors that determine what it will actually cost you over the time you have it.
  
george2040, are you referring to factory options? Because Honda/Acura dealers love to put aftermarket accessories on their cars and mark them up heavily. This is probably due in part to the lack of factory options on those cars (you want leather on an Accord LX - aftermarket!). BMW, Mercedes and Audi all option you to death, yes. You can usually add on $10k+ without even breaking a sweat. You should be able to find lightly optioned examples though.
  
I have to say, I'm a little disappointed with this new G37. I was enamored with the previous G35 coupe - when it came out I loved its styling, power and exhaust note. I was about to buy one when the 2006 BMW 3-Series came out and I was smitten once again. I expected Infiniti to step up their game a little more with this car- the styling as some posters mentioned seems bulbous and too derivative of the previous gen. Maybe I need to see it in person.

Karl
 
I was thinking about purchasing a BMW through the European Delivery program. You guys did a good article last year on your trip concerning the 325i. However, to make sure that I got a good deal I was needing access to the Manufacturers Invoice price in order to form the base to negotiate from. I have looked and looked for a good source on this information and it is spotty at best.
 
Do you guys offer that information for European makes?

Here's the page with the 2007 328i coupes invoice price. We should have just about any invoice price for a car sold in the U.S. (possible exceptions for cars like Ferrari and other exotics, though few people buying though cars try to dicker on price...).
 
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/bmw/3series/100775891/prices.html?action=1

Thanks Karl
 
I appreciate that, but I think there is even a lower invoice price that can be negotiated from with European Delivery. Some have said there is four prices
1. US MSRP
2. ED MSRP
3. US Invoice
4. ED Invoice.
 
I maybe wrong, or the sources I was reading maybe wrong. But that is part of my question. Thanks for the info.

I did the Volvo ED experience (didn't actually buy a car, but they had a trip so journalists could experience it). The story is here:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=107534
 
One thing I remember about the Volvo system is that you basically couldn't negotiate price when doing ED. There is a specific ED MSRP -- with no further discussion along the lines of "what's it really cost to buy this car."
 
Not sure if BMW has the same stance...

(I know that blueguydotcom knows alot about this, I do not)
 
But from my understanding, BMW markets it as a way to save money on the BMW. Therefore, paying for your trip to Europe. So fans that I have read have saved thousands. The rule of thumb that I have read is that they will do the deal anywhere from $700 --$1500 over the European Delivery invoice price. That price is what I am trying to determine.
 
I read somewhere that a rule of thumb is 7% less than US invoice price, but not always. Just food for thought. I am trying to plan a potential trip for next year and purchase the new 1 Series this way.

Sounds like a blast!
 
Good luck!

brett - I am close to finalizing an order for a 335i coupe via Euro Delivery. I have done a lot of research on the topic and already negotiated a great deal (based on my research) with my BMW client advisor. You are correct about the 4 prices, although the options/packages are only priced at US MSRP or US invoice. I negotiated based on ED invoice and US invoice for options. bimmerfest.com is a great resource as there is an entire ED buying section and even an ED wiki - I obtained all the ED invoice pricing from here. I also got a nifty calculator in Excel that will figure out your lease payments (with tax, multiple security deposits, etc).
  
$700-$1500 over ED invoice is definitely reasonable, depending on the car of course. ED cars don't come out of the dealer's US allocation so they should be more willing to negotiate. Leasing is particularly attractive on ED BMWs because BMWFS calculates the car's residual value based on US MSRP, and the further away you get from that price, the better your payments. In my case, my actual cap cost will be almost $5600 less than MSRP!

Great info bimmerjay!

Thank you so much bimmerjay.

The trip itself makes me want to purchase a 335.

No problemo.

Karl, interesting comments about both cars. But I must admit that I am a little disappointed that you did not really say much about the new G37. Instead you ranted about 335i most of the time. It sounded like a blog about BMW instead of one about Infiniti. I am interested in purchasing either car, but you practically gave no insight into the G. You basically told us how you would buy a 335i. I hope this isn't a forecast of the full G37 review, because that will be disappointing. Let me guess, you all are going to mention the 335i about 20 times and tell us how much it costs and what dealer to buy the car.

Karl,
 
The 335 may very well be a better car, but this review is more like something I'd expect to read on bimmerfest. I'm in the process of looking at a new car and have settled on either the 335 or the G37. A couple of points about the "review":
 
1. How could you test an Automatic and say that the BMW shifts better? According to Infiniti, the shifting action of the manual has been "refined" in the G37. We won't know fo certain until it comes out - but to say "but our long-term G35 sedan's manual is soooo bad I can't believe a body style change is going to fix it". A body style change??? There have been many improvements to the G37 (at least that's what's being told to people by Nissan/Infintii).
 
2. The whole paragraph on leasing and higher resale value? The current G35 Coupe has a higher leasing resale value than the 335 coupe - you can look it up. Unlike BMW, Infiniti has a higher leasing resale value for their coupe versus their sedan. The 335 is significantly more than the current G35 coupe (buying AND leasing). If buying, you MAY be able to get more for the 335 when you sell, but can we make that determination once the car has been out for a few years?
 
I really hope the full review is a bit less biased.

Three points here:
 
1. If you want to read our balanced review, read our balanced review. This is a personal blog.
 
2. We also have a manual shift G37 in the office right now. The shifter is better than the sedan's -- and still not as good as the 3 Series.
 
3. Pricing: A base 2007 G35 manual costs within $1,000 of a 2007 328i manual. The G35 has more power, and weighs 200 pounds more. We could go into a long discussion of option pricing and straightline performance and steering feel, but in my opinion that 328i (not to mention the 335i) is a more enjoyable car to drive, so that's the one I'll buy despite the pricing at time of purchase or resale. BTW, the Total Cost to Own is within $100 on both cars after three years because of the BMW's free maintainence . Check it out:
 
"http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/infiniti/g35/100819282/cto.html"
"http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/bmw/3series/100775891/cto.html"
 
Your opinion may vary, and having that right is what makes America wonderful.

"1. If you want to read our balanced review, read our balanced review. This is a personal blog. "
 
I appreciate the feedback Karl, but I doubt that anything said about Infiniti could even approach anything close to balanced. Especially considering they are now the main competition for BMW and you and the Edmunds staff are clearly biased towards the brand, and have made it plainly obvious. Like another person mentioned, I expect the G37 review to keep telling us how good the 335i is.
 
The review of the 535i is funny actually:
 
"It's not that those cars are better than the 5 Series, it's that the 5 Series is no longer clearly better then they are. I'm not sure if the 5 Series has gotten a bit soft or if the competition has simply gotten sharper. Probably a bit of both."
 
It seems as if it's physically painful for you guys to say anything bad about BMW, instead twisting words and dancing around the issue. Thanks for the laughs.

Yeah, no Infiniti love around here. BTW, happen to notice our Editors' Most Wanted Coupe under $40,000 this year? Or our Editors' Most Wanted pick for Sedan under $45,000? Or the honorable mention for Editors' Most Wanted Sedan under $35,000?
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2007/index.html
 
Or my most recent comment on today's S80 discussion?
http://66.160.188.111/karl/535
 
Hmmm, that's three Infiniti models winning accolades, and the total Infiniti model line-up only consists of five vehicles. I guess someday we'll have to give that brand a real shot at recognition.

senneca01, I believe you just got "owned."

The 2 categories that Infiniti won in - No BMW was even in the running. When there was a BMW in the running - The BMW won.
 
Not to say that Infiniti should have won - just wanted to clear that up. I think the point of the previous poster was that you favor BMW's and you replied with a link that only showed BMW winning in each of its categories. Not sure what the point of that was.
 
I noticed in one of the later Infiniti G35 blog entries that there was a problem with the metal on the shifter and how it gets hot. I think it's funny that you bring that up, but will you bring it up in the 335 review seeing that they have metal trim as well?

SubyTrojan, "Owned"? Is that what the kids are saying in junior high these days? And no, I didn't get "owned", like trey100 stated, there was no BMW in the running with the two categories that Infiniti won. But once again, Karl I do appreciate the blog and comments on the lively discussion here. Cheers.

I have the new 3-series with a manual transmission and the shift knob has never gotten burning hot. I live in CA where the sun shines pretty much all the time. So they didn't bring it up on the 335i review because it doesn't happen, don't ask me why.
 
The iDrive knob can get burning hot, but on the '07 models there is now a little leather insert so you're not handling the bare metal.

For senneca01 and all japanese rice burner car fans. Ok face it people all the japanese auto makers are plain "WANNABE'S" they copy everything European car makers do (Take it from someone of Japanese descent.) Mercedes, BMW and Audi change around everytime they are immitated, and still the japanese copy. Why? Because they know they are copying the absolute BEST. Toyota Honda and Nissan were good everyday cars for everyday people. They invented Lexus, Infinity, and Acura for consumers who could not afford the BEST Europen craftsmanship (Mercedes-Benz, BMW, AUDI etc), thats it! they just made a serious error when they thought they were going to actually take on and beat the real kings of the road. I hate to brake it to you but NOT in a billion years! I think people like senneca01 make the comments they do because maybe they CANNOT afford BMW's so to justify that, and of course the fact that they spend money on a car that depreciates rather quickly they try to make BMW look bad. Hey Senneca01 thanks for the Laughs!!! and editor Karl yeah, no infinity love around here baby! I guess it's because I can afford A Sweet bimmer. This is'nt about blasting anyone it's about facts, it's about the truth. Cheers!
 
Ivan Oshima
Ivan1@inorbit.com

Karl as a member of the snow belt (PA) I agree with your sentiments about "traction overkill". I don't know about other places, but here, even if you have a freakin' Mustang GT, the worst hardship you'll experience in winter is not driving your car for one week total out of the 52 of them in a year. Do you really, truely NEED to drive these few days of the year, and pay the penalty of more money spent on fuel, on the vehicle probably, reduced driving dynamics, and increased complication/repairs for the "luxury" of AWD or 4WD?
 
I agree Edmunds should do some sort of RWD mythbuster this winter. Maybe some FWD vs AWD vs RWD lap times in the snow or something crazy like that. Was that you guys that did the article with the 3 series in the snow fitted with snow tires and found it handled itself remarkably well?

We've talking about doing more winter driving stories for a couple years. Resource versus story ideas always limit our options, but this one keeps rising in priority, so expect to see it soon (probably this winter).

Interesting and informative conversation. That 2008 Infiniti G37 is pricey but it really looks nice. I like the curves and the wheels. The seats definitely look more supportive. But, it would be better to feel it personally. I wonder what new upgraded parts where put on that one. I believe infiniti head gasket has been made better. Comparing it with BMW, I guess BMW has a lot more advantages since a lot of people who have them said that it do run great although it’s a bit more expensive. And even if it’s expensive, people patronize it because of the quality performance it has.

This thread is very interesting.
 
I can't get over how " noriceburners " stated that, " They invented Lexus, Infinity, and Acura for consumers who could not afford the BEST Europen craftsmanship (Mercedes-Benz, BMW, AUDI etc), thats it! ", and " no infinity love around here baby! I guess it's because I can afford A Sweet bimmer. " ----- I think my parents would love to read this, as they have a combined income of over 300,000 , and yet they have three INFINITI's... ( FX45, G35 Coupe, M45 )
 
As for the cars go, I have to say I love our INFINITI's. BMW makes excellent cars, although I've never driven one. ( because I can't afford one... LOL ) !!!! BUT !!!! so does INFINITI.
 
As for styling I like the G37's better, but would rather have the 3.0 TT instead of the 3.7 N/A ...
 
Uh, Also maybe the other japanese brands are trying to keep up with BMW & Mercedes & Audi ... Cough , excuse me... Anyway like I was saying, but I believe INFINITI has CAUGHT UP with them. As I remember BMW was awful quick to replace the N/A 3.0 which they placed in the 2006 330i with the Twin-turbo charged verison. Maybe they were feeling the pressure from INFINITI's VQ... But hell, INFINTI should just copy off of them and Twin-Turbocharge the VQ engine... say 400+ Hp... ? Ooo wait they might be following the best... BMW.... Whoops wait a second, SAAB was first sucessfully intergrated the Turbo into a Production car. ( and I'm not saying you said BMW was the first to do it )
 
So in conclusion... The BMW 335I may be " the best " but INFINITI is only 2% away... So BMW better slap on a couple more Turbo's and shine that beautiful badge...

Whoops

"For senneca01 and all japanese rice burner car fans. Ok face it people all the japanese auto makers are plain "WANNABE'S" they copy everything European car makers do (Take it from someone of Japanese descent.) Mercedes, BMW and Audi change around everytime they are immitated, and still the japanese copy. Why? Because they know they are copying the absolute BEST. "
 
As for European technology, do you have any clue who makes the turbos for the 335i, can we say Mitsubishi.

Right off the bat I wanna say my views are in line with the author's here. When I test drove the 330i and the g35 sedan, everything said in this comparo held true.
My only quible is with the claim of the bimmers being such a deal when you consider the lease equation and residuals. Indeed the residual values on the 3 series is high, but the g cars are no slouch in this dept. In fact back when I did my research in 06, the inf cars held their values better than the bimmers. Inf Financial also subvents their lease much better leading to even more ridiculous residual values on their lease deals.
 
All said, a comparable equipped g car and a a 3 series vehicle for me wound up being 70 percent higher per month for the bmw as opposed to the inf cars.
 
Again I agree with this writer, my preference was for the 3 series as an autombile, but I didnt think it warranted the higher cost. On paper they might seem simlar price wise due to the low base cost models. But when it comes right down to, include options and compare the lease deals, the 3 series is in another price segment altogether.

God, I think it may be truly pathologic, Edmunds unwavering cheerleading for anything with a BMW roundel affixed to it! For the record, I just tested both cars for myself yesterday and came up with some glaringly different results (but, like you said, this is America). First, The BMW most definitely does NOT "handle" better than the G. It was too soft and wallowy and the steering was a bit numb in comparison (so much for your vaunted BMW steering feel). Also, the low end of the 335i might be a good bit punchier than the G, but what about upper rev range hp??? In my test, the G felt stronger than the BMW above 6k rpm and revved all the way to an indicated 8k rpm allowing for some nice overrev capability over the Bimmer.
 
As far as value is concerned, I truly think you are a great bloody pillock if you think the BMW wins here! The G with every option can be had for little more than the BASE price of the 335i. That would include such things as an excellent sat/nav setup (even you guys at "EdmundsBMWforlife.com" have to admit this system is lightyears ahead of iDrive), onboard hard drive, premium leather seats, keyless ignition, intelligent cruise control, a limited slip diff (not even available on the all-conquering 335i), 19" wheels, etc. A comparably priced (read, base) 335i will have exactly NONE of that stuff. You can get one with some of that stuff...........for about $8k more, but there you go.
 
 In summary, I think Edmunds should just put up a little BMW roundel as your new logo and just drive and test BMW's from now on. Its all you guys seem to want to talk about!

I am an ex BMW owner who now leases a G37. In terms of lease cost a basic 335 sedan ( cheaper than a 335 coupe) (leather, htd seats, sport pkg) (0$ cap cost reduction, upfront costs bank fee $625, 1st month's payment, sales tax(NY), doc fee of $45) runs in the low $500's. Its also generally padded with expensive options, and a Euro delivery order overall costs about the same when you add in the cost of travel, increased lease rate, and loss of a month's use of the car while you pay.
 My G37 sport (6 -speed) has the premium pkg and includes many optional and probably unnecessary conveniences (bluetooth, keyless entry/start, metallic paint, power seat bolsters, in car video inputs, elaborate ipod integration, etc.). Powerwise its competitive with the BMW but you must rev it out fully to access the real power where the BMW's torque curve is more like an american V8, strong in the low end and tails off above 6,000 rpm.
 Cost of ownership/value is where the G37 shines. You get a very sporty, high revving, modestly torquey, high power V6, with communicative and precise handling and steering for less than a 328I sedan. The G37 leased through Infinity Financial Services (6 spd, premium, spoiler, trunk mat, splash guards) ran $399/month 0 down, plus NYS sales tax, $45 doc fee, NYS registration, $595 bank fee with no other odd charges or fees (..$10 tire tax ?). The BMW steering is probably a little better (if you really want to compare, try a Porsche Boxster or 911, its much more communicative than the BMW or the G37), the ride quality is a litlle better in some circumstances, worse in others, the powerband is more usable in day to day driving, but the price difference in leasing is very far apart. Run it hard on a winding road and its really a lot of fun.