I'll be interested to see what sort of real world MPG you get with it. That seems like the main thing the new one has lost.

The PT cruiser is gone? When did this get announced? Shame Chrysler didn't update it...

I wonder how long it'll take someone to complain about the volume rocker switch.

Volume rocker switches suck!
 
"Infinite knobs" suck too, though slightly less. Anything that gets set somewhere between a minimum and a maximum needs a real knob with a pointer, identifiable by touch, indicating its current position. That includes audio settings, temperature controls, power windows, steering wheels, etc. (OK, no one has tried replacing the steering wheel with a pair of buttons... yet.)
 
A slider is fine too; it's just an uncurled knob.

kpschoedel, the only prob with a finite volume knob is when you have multiple volume sources to control. My BMW volume knob controls audio, phone, navigation instruction, voice command and BMW Assist volume. That would otherwise mean 5 separate knobs! The way it works now, the knob will adjust whichever one of those sources is active.

Yes, multiple knobs are better. When I operate a control, I want it to do the same thing it did last time I used it -- especially in a car, where I want to watch the road rather than some display, and I don't want surprises.

Nob or no nob, that's a nice looking head unit. As a gadget junkie, I'd love to have something like that for my car. Heck, my '05 doesn't even have an aux input.
 
This '08 car looks 10x better than the old one(nice color too). The Big Bad Wolf could've blown the first one to pieces- it looked positively fragile.

I like many of the upgrades for the xB but the car's gas mileage is pretty atrocious for a 4 cylinder. If you're going to suffer in a car with no power, at least the payoff should be 30+ mpgs.

Excellent points by all of you:
 
1. Yes, the MPG is rather atrocious. The odometer went from about 110 to 210 miles while I had it, so obviously the engine ain't broke in. That said, the on-board computer was telling me I was getting 22.8 mpg. Yikes!
 
2. Yes, the rocker volume switch blows. I'm certain these are cheaper to produce (and easier to use in multi-confirgurable ways on modern, high-tech head units), but I HATE them. That said, Toyota continues to refine their touchscreen, and this one works better than ever. It's responsive to light touches, accurate in terms of where you touch it, and they've even added a "soft dissolve" to when you switch screens, with is more soothing than the abrupt jumps most systems make. Also, sound quality rocks!

Egad, 22 mpg! I got better than that with my 3.0 liter BMWs and I tended to shift at over 4k and do lots of WOT throttle in lower gears.

Great, so now it's just a small SUV. For "starving college students" like my brother (who really shouldn't have bought a new car) the old xB was perfect - cheap, efficient, fits a lot of supplies, can park anywhere... the new one seems so general purpose that it might as well be part of Toyota's truck line. Probably drives like one.
 
Boxes aren't cute, just tiny ones.

I'd commit a crime to average 22.8 mpg. Let's face it, 3000 lbs cars (4spd autos) with large displacement 4 bangers get bad mileage. My car weighs ~ 2950 lbs and I averaged 18 mpg over 29k miles. At best (mixed driving), I've gotten 22 and at worst 16 (think winter or summer while using the HVAC system). During highway trips, maybe 28 on average with the possibility of 30 when going < 60 (next to impossible). I don't get it and I've written Mazda numerous times to no avail.

Keep in mind that the vehicle has less than 300 miles on it. wow, perspective anyone? I'd be very surprised if MPG didn't increase over the YEAR that edmunds.com will have the xB.... for pete's sake, their 268 horse Camry is averaging nearly 26 MPG...

Alpha, check out the EPA on the Xb...
 
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=24073
 
24 combined estimated miles per gallon is pathetic for an economy car. No excuse for that kind of performance.

I agree - it looks better in person than on photos. But older xB was more cool. But anyway - what the point of making $21000 SUV out of entry level cool car? Scion drivers get ting older or Scion is turning into another boring Toyota-mobile? For that kind of money I would happily buy a real car with good steering and handling, with higher fun-to drive ratio and with much better mpg.

Is this being marketed as an "economy" car?
It's bigger than a midsized sedan.
 
It's more like a Camry Hatchback.
The xB's got a wider interior than a Saturn Aura, and loads of passenger room.

blueguydotcom- those are '08 EPA estimates, not directly comparable to those in the past, and, as noted by others, this isn't exactly an economy car.
 
Finally, check out the MPG for many of the small cars that Consumer Reports has tested over 5 to 6K miles.... with the exception of manual transmission models and the Civic/Corolla, MOST average around 26 MPG... which is what the tC does using the same engine, similar weight, gearing, etc... I'd expect at least that much, regardless of what the EPA says.

Alpha
 
blueguydotcom- those are '08 EPA estimates, not directly comparable to those in the past, and, as noted by others, this isn't exactly an economy car.
 
Those are 2008 estimate and from what Karl has told us, 22 mpg is what Edmunds is getting. So the estimates are holding closer to reality.
  
MOST average around 26 MPG... which is what the tC does using the same engine, similar weight, gearing, etc... I'd expect at least that much, regardless of what the EPA says.
 
That's horrendous for all those cars then. FWIW, the tC's gas mileage and excessive weight are two reasons I always suggest people not look at that car.

C&D tested this thing and averaged about 22mpg so that number seems right on target. This is not for people concerned about gas mileage.

It isn't, and I think that's a bad thing - because the old ones WAS for people concerned about mileage. Best big box carrier you could get with 30+ mpg.

Yeah, but that one was Japanese, this one is American.
 
Bigger, more powerful, gas guzzling
 
And it will probably sell much better than the previous one, too.
 
But hey, everyone in this country is "totally on board with the global warming problem and willing to do what it takes to address it."
 
Sorry, a bit of rant. But the growing hypocrisy of "yes let's save the planet" being stated by an army of people -- all of them driving cars with less than 20 to 25 real-world mpg -- is getting old, even by America's hyprocisy standards.

Global warming; we have morphed from Marie Antoinette "Let them eat cake" to Algore "I am your carbon credit broker (the more you buy the broker you'll be)".

All of them? Not in my circle of friends and family, though the real test will be when we have more money than we do now... I'm not sure any of us even have engines bigger than 2.0L. (Not that I'm happy so many of them bought new Corollas, but...)
 
Anyway I don't see the new xB as a bad car, just a bad xB. I would've made it a Toyota, or at least renamed it. Instead, Scion renamed the xA to xD, when the xD is much more similar to the xA than the new xB is to the old one. It even looks like it's obviously a Toyota, with their new melted wax styling language. (I need to ease off the JDM kool-aid...)

I kind of like the new one - wouldn't have bought the old one but I could see getting one of these if I "needed" something like this. This color is definitely better in person, it is how Scion showed it at the NYAS. My buddy who was with me, and is looking for something inexpesive and fun to replace his tired Civic, couldn't get enough of it. It is interesting to see a car in this color - I think the largest object I'd seen before this in this color was the classic PaperMate stick pen - no? I wonder if PaperMate owns the rights to it?? Could see a cross marketing campaign come out of this.......oops....wait that's another brand of pen!

FWIW - I drove the car home tonight. The odo is now at 1,400 and the average MPG reading is at 25.

"Sorry, a bit of rant. But the growing hypocrisy of "yes let's save the planet" being stated by an army of people -- all of them driving cars with less than 20 to 25 real-world mpg -- is getting old, even by America's hyprocisy standards."
 
who lied and told you everyone is on board with stopping global warming? Not everyone knows or cares about the issue. Rest assured, the die hard people who are concerned about probably will pass on a 22mpg Scion. Until demand drops for larger, more refined, more powerful vehicles each redesign will continue in that direction. There is a large segment of the population who think that cars should get more efficient with each redesign, but right now the majority of people dont think that way and would rather have more features and more power with each new design.

Good points 1487 - I guess it's just an ingrained point of view of many people that relatively small and inexpensive cars are supposed to get noticeably better mileage than everything else. I really like the Element but when I actually looked in to them I was surprised the mileage wasn't better - rated better than this Scion but not that great. The AWD 5spd model I'd be interested in gets the lowest mpg of all. If it was rated for 30 or 35 I would be pumped up but mid to low 20s doesn't thrill me in a relatively small and inexpensive vehicle. Again, I think it's just a general assumption or point of view people have....including me I guess. In my case it's less about GW and more about going further on an expensive gallon of gas.

I respect the opinions on this thread, but many of them are just that. Yes, C/D tested the xB and averaged 22 MPG during their couple hundred miles. Karl has already indicated MPG is now up to 25 MPG on the edmunds.com xB.
 
I will also point out that C/D tested the RAV4 V6, and returned 16 MPG from their testing. Most owners report mid to low 20s, and even here on edmunds.com you'll find thats what the editors are averaging. I wouldn't take a 300 mile test as representative of a vehicles efficiency. I'll bet that over the year that edmunds.com has the xB, it averages between 26 and 28 MPG at minimum, not bad for a spacious vehicle running on regular, styled like a brick and accelerating in the mid 8s to 60.
 
This car is no longer about fuel efficiency, but then, I'm not sure it ever was (or else perhaps Scion would have aimed for something a Cd under what? .4?), but nor is it a frekin' Land Rover LR2, either...
 
~alpha

The first xB had a drag coefficient of 0.32.

That's way more impressive than I realized, given its shape. Hmmn, perhaps I should not judge books by their covers? No, I think I will still continue to do so...
 
What is the '08 xB's?
 
;)

Excellent points Alpha. While I made this point in my initial post it was somewhat overshadowed by the 22.8 mpg comment. So I'll restate that the xB is a pretty good all-around vehicle. It's not at all slow (the last version, while I liked it's various traits and character, was), it handles well, has plenty of passenger space (the rear seat is more roomy than, for example, the all-new C-Class), and there's lots of cargo space. At the same time, it's still small enough to easily park and manuever in tight spaces. Basically, it's a very effective small SUV.
 
If someone came to you and said, "I just bought an economy car. It get's 22.8 mpg." you'd (rightfully) raise your eyebrows.
 
But if someone came and said, "I just bought a small SUV. It's pretty quick, handles well, is very roomy and comfortable inside but still small enough outside to easily drive and park in the city. Oh, and it's getting around 25-27 mpg and I paid just over $20,000." you'd probably want to know what they bought so you could go research the vehicle yourself. The xB is definitely closer to the second statement, though my initial mpg report, combined with the impression of what the car used to be, would understandably have people thinking in terms of the first statement.

My bad - 0.32 is for the 2008 Scion xB. The old one is 0.35.
 
Don't forget to multiply that by the frontal area to get the actual drag force.

The thing I love about this car is that it continues Toyota's trend of making larger, heavier vehicles with worse economy than the vehicles they replace. First Tundra, then this and soon the Highlander will be on sale with 500lbs of extra curb weight. It makes no sense to take the Scion upmarket when it supposed to be a low cost, first car option for people on a budget. with this type of mileage I would just spend a little more and get a CR-V that offers similar efficiency in a nicer package. I dont think the Scion's interior is all that hot for $22k, maybe its different at its base price.

Actually, adjusted for '08 MY, I believe the Highlander is going to achieve the same MPG as the outgoing V6.
 
Yes, 1487, it makes no sense to take Scion to new levels of tech, equipment, and performance at a higher cost. Its Gen Y buyers dislike all of those things, and can't afford them either. (Witness the complete failure of the iPhone. From what I understand they're just wasting away on shelves, much like this xB will do........or not!)
 
Seriously, this makes total sense from Toyota's perspective - don't forget, there was no Yaris when Scion was launched. Now that there is, buyers wanting something youthful, cheap, and economical have that option. Others wanting tech, funk, and now a modicum of performance have the new xB, and to a lesser extent, the new xD. With Yaris, Corolla, xB, xD, and tC, Toyota has a more comprehensive small to compact lineup than anyone in the business. And guess what? It's making money on all of them, and covering the bases for pretty much every type of consumer....
 
At least GM has the Aveo, Dodge has the belly-flopping Caliber, and Ford has... and Ford has....
 

"At least GM has the Aveo, Dodge has the belly-flopping Caliber, and Ford has... and Ford has.... "
 
I'm no caliber fan, but I think you should look at its sales vs the xB before calling it a flop. I believe they move over 10k Calibers a month which is considerably more than the xB and even more than the Yaris.

Caliber sales CYTD through May 31: 48,564
 
How many of these went to fleet? I had several rental Calibers myself on my last project, and have read in AN that on AVERAGE, the Chrysler line LEADS in fleet sales, at a percentage greater than 35%.
 
I've not read one single good review of the Caliber, anywhere, and after driving it, can see why.
 
The ability to move metal doesn't equal success, either public or critical.
 
~alpha

Ok, so for the time period 08/06 through 02/07, the Caliber sold to fleets at a rate of 45.1%
 
Just FYI....

toyota had something special in the Celica GTS though, looked like a jet fighter, light, highrevving motor. the Scion xA could have been tuned up and stanced look like that since it's already such a light car... 140hp would go a long way just like the celica - plus return the 25-30mpg that everyone seems to hot on.