New Subaru WRX -- Better than Mazdaspeed 3? Maybe...
Do I like the "all-new" Subaru WRX better than Mazda's superb Mazdaspeed 3? I can't tell. And don't mean that in an Airplane movie, "You can tell us, Karl, we're your readers" sort of way. I mean I drove the Mazdaspeed 3 about a week ago, and I just drove the new WRX, and that's simply too much time between drives. Both cars are too good overall, and the only way to confirm which is "better" is to drive them back-to-back and/or do instrumented testing. Fortunately, I have allies who did both...
Even with the delay between my drives of the Mazdaspeed 3 and the WRX I still got out of the Subaru with some strong inklings. The WRX felt less nimble than the 3, with more body roll in the twisties. This was confirmed by fellow staffers who drove both cars back-to-back, as well as the slower slalom speed achieved by the Subie at our test track. I also felt like the WRX had a wider powerband and generally more pulling power. This was also confirmed by instrumented testing that put the WRX about three-tenths of a second ahead of the Mazda.
While I had some vague sensations about how these cars compared in terms of handling and power (sensations confirmed by our diligent test team), there were a couple of obvious differentiators as well. For instance, the Subaru's seat, while less-aggressively bolstered than the Mazda's, was also more comfortable, at least for me. It had superior leg support and the overall seating position worked better for me. But, I like the Mazdaspeed's interior design better, with more creative/stylish gauges and a higher-quality head unit (I hate
the plasticized, easily-washed-out display window on the WRX's radio -- this design feels very 1996).
So which one is better overall? If you want ultimate fun behind the wheel (which, in theory, is what this target segment is after), along with a superior interior design than the Mazdaspeed 3 gets the nod. But if you want a more comfortable ride (both in terms of suspension tuning and seat design) as well as stronger acceleration the WRX has the advantage. I'd probably go for the Mazda, but the seat issue gives me pause. And it's not like the WRX was slow on Mulholland, even with the more "tippy" suspension tuning. It's exit speed was quick (especially with that 2.5-liter flat-four's 224 horsepower churning away from the apex). Not an easy call...
You'll notice I didn't mention exterior styling at all. Two reasons: 1. It's been beaten to death already (at least in terms of the Subie) and 2. Who cares? Neither car is a drop-dead gorgeous and both are more about the "feel behind the wheel" than winning a beauty contest.
Full details of how these cars stack up against one another will be revealed in the upcoming comparison test. Expect it in less than two weeks.
Well, the choice is clear for me. The WRX all the way. The combination of full-time AWD and being a more comfortable daily driver makes the choice easy for me. Besides, being the owner of a current '06 WRX Limited, it sounds like Subaru has addressed my main complaints, that being excessive road noise, lack of refinement and cramped quarters for rear seat passengers.
Is it perfect? No. I wish they had stuck with the wider 215/45x17 tires, but then maybe that's one reason it's quieter... And while I welcome the newfound refinement, I'm disappointed to read that it's a less rewarding ride than the outgoing model.
Karl, is the WRX as tuner-like around town as the Mazdaspeed3? The MS3 is a hoot to drive but even after 15 minutes I became tired of the muffler and the car's always-on attitude (much like the Civic Si).
No matter what, I'm very anxious to drive the new Rex. I'm hoping they finally made it feel more adult.
The Suburu looks terrible, that is enough to put me in the seat of the MS3 any day.
It sounds as tho Subaru has lost the plot with the new WRX. It was near the top of my list, it's now at the bottom. The articles written on Edmunds confirm a lot of what I was already concerned with.
Yes, I will still test drive one but for the money I think there is just too much competition out there that is better. It was a niche car and they tried to turn it into a Camry. Now it is neither fish nor fowl.
Accord and Camry offer a lot for the same money and are class leaders. AWD is nice but not at that price. It's on the edge of Audi A3 territory as far as price. The older models are virtually the same and you get less for the money. Styling, well I've complained enough about that already. I was hoping for too much from Subaru I guess. Many other car makers will want my money when the time comes.
The WRX is definitely more "user friendly" from a non-enthusiast standpoint. As mentioned by stevecebu, it basically felt like a really quick mid-size sedan in terms of ride and handling, which is both good and bad, depending on your perspective...
Karl, thanks. That's good to read.
I can always mod a Rex's suspension and get far more performance out of it (my bro-in-law's little brother has a seriously tweaked original WRX and he drives it like an idiot...zero issues). No matter what, if you've got a Mazdaspeed3 you're pretty much stuck with lousy FWD and bad gearing (that can be changed but it's too much effort imho).
The point Subaru is trying to make is getting the car more "general public" acceptance. Subaru's are Subaru's. They are simple and reliable cars. I will have to take a test drive when they arrive to the dealer lot (good excuse to take mom's Legacy for service) I like the sedan a little bit better. I hope Toyota doesn't get all their influence on getting the car too soft; then is another boring corolla.
I can't wait to test drive the new Impreza (maybe even WRX, who knows?) Every review I have read makes me think that Subaru finally made the changes I have been looking for. And they dropped the price!
It's Mazdaspeed 3 all the way! Well, I'll be honest: I'm a Mazda fan and biased in favor of Mazda.
But that doesn't mean there aren't things I prefer about the MS3. For starters, the MS3 has far better styling.....both on the exterior and the interior.....the MS3 exterior is not drop dead gorgeous but very attractive......whereas this Suby is downright ugly. Given the handling of the MS3, I would say lack of 4wd is a non-issue....at least not in Texas! And the MS3 is cheaper.....
I love Mazdas but having piloted a Mazdaspeed3, I'll pass on one until they get rid of the FWD and make it a bit more adult. No matter the numbers, FWD just isn't that much fun for me. It feels totally wrong in corners (especially exiting them).
I was pretty surprised to hear about the softer handling, although the slalom numbers say otherwise. I guess it makes sense for the WRX to be softened up a bit, the real deal will the STi hatch when it comes out. And between the WRX and Mazdaspeed 3, i'll take a 3 in black. The exterior of the WRX is sharp, and pretty good overall but the interior is a letdown. THe Mazda 3 still looks good and I love the red lighting in the interior.
When will the Dodge Caliber SRT-4 be tested? I'm really interested in the car because of the massive 300 hp stuffed in there. The standard Caliber may not be great but hopefully the SRT-4 will be. Maybe it could be included in the comparison, or a VW R32.
Perhaps, Karl, the STI variation may correct the lack of "boy racer" you sense in the WRX?. I'm definitely looking forward to its comparison with the upcoming Evo 10 and the AWD Saab Sport Combi coming our way.
Meanwhile, why is Subaru trying to widen the WRX appeal? Weren't they selling enough of them? After all, it is only one variant within the entire Impreza lineup.
navigator89, the Dodge Caliber SRT-4 will probably not have 300 hp (HTML used due to link length).
This part of the article/review says it all to me: Our five-door test car weighs 3,167 pounds, only about 4 pounds heavier than the last Mazdaspeed 3 we had on our scales. And the Mazdaspeed 3 doesn't offer all-wheel drive.
A few pounds heavier than the MS3 but it's got AWD. Some chip tuning, thicker sways and maybe a coil-over...suddenly you've got obscene power the WRX can use and the handling is sharpened up. That engine is easily good for over 300 hp too.
And while I like Mazdas, Scoobys have proven to be nigh indestructible.
SubyTrojan thanks for the link, I had no idea about this as it wasnt posted anywhere I looked.
Still, 280 hp is pretty good, so we know the Caliber will be pretty fast in a straight line. The interesting, and perhaps the most important part will be to see how well it handles, and how the chassis and suspension are tuned.
Man that WRX is ugly. I mean so ugly that I would not buy one based on the looks alone. Lots of cars offer performance - most of them can at least look good as well.
Karl, what causes the WRX puts the same 0 to 60 time as the MS3, when both weight the same but the WRX has a far less power and torque? What about the quarter mile?
Well coming to thing of it, the 0 to 60 time issue might be caused by the Mazda Advanced Torque Management System that reduces the power in 1st and 2nd. But doesn't the Mazda eventually outrun the WRX?
Kwaku, the 0-60 time for the WRX is helped by its all-wheel drive launch. If you've never experienced one, it's quite an amazing thing, especially 0-20/0-30 mph. However, hard AWD launches take a tremendous toll on clutches and transmissions. Like you mentioned, the Mazdaspeed3 also doesn't make its full power in first and second gears in an effort to reduce torque steer. I would think that could be overcome by a simple ECU flash/upgrade from the aftermarket. Past 60 mph, the Mazdaspeed3 should eat the WRX for lunch.
In Inside Line's 2006 Sport Compact Comparison test, the MS3 was quicker in the 1/4-mile by 0.1 sec, but had a much higher trap speed. That comparison test is a great read and has a cool video.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=117762
Subaru MUST be playing a prank on us, nobody could seriously take the rex and make it look like that!
Thanks for the explanation, SubyTrojan! Unfortunately, I'm yet to experience an AWD launch......
To add to what SubyTrojan said, the WRX tops out at 140mph while the MS3 will pull all the way to 155mph (some even say 160mph). If you're ever in a Rex being chased down a MS3, the best thing to do is draw a conclusion before the speeds get too high.
As to the soft vs. boy-racer ride, I suppose each fits their respective marketing plans. The Mazda is a limited quantity vehicle while they'll make as many Rex's as they can sell.
7driver, I've heard from a friend that a stage 1 2004 WRX can go over 140 mph. Yes, he knows some error is involved. But my friend said he saw the needle of his speedometer go well past the 140 mark and over the odometer LCD. :wink:
the new WRX and MS3 aren't that similar. The WRX wagon is softer and quieter (in exhaust note) which appeals to a different crowd than boy racers prefering firmer handling and beefier exhaust tone. But dollar for dollar, my MS3 at 24.5k was fully loaded and WRX TR for 25k is stripped down. If you need AWD, the choice is obvious, but if you don't, you get a lot of motor plus nice things like automatic HIDs, leather seats, rainsensing wipers, auto climate control, premium stereo and 18" wheels. A comparably equiped WRX would be 2-3k more. But the real question is how hard and loud do you want it?
I've got 2 requests:
1) Edmunds gets an '08 WRX for a long-term tester.
2) Edmunds does a head-to-head comparison test of the '08 with an '07 WRX.
There has been so much discussion about the new WRX going soft, that I think the only way way to clear up all the rumors, innuendo, and misinformation out there about the new model is to have the '08 WRX and '07 WRX go mano-a-mano. Then we'll know for sure what the deal is.
Yeah, I know they drove an '07 a while back, but memories can be fuzzy at best.
nemo, I hate to admit it, but you can't even comparably equip a WRX to match an optioned-out MS3. HID headlights and rain-sensing wipers aren't even offered on the WRX (in North America anyway). Then again, the WRX has Subaru's symmetrical all-wheel drive whereas AWD isn't offered on the MS3. The WRX has all-season tires that are less sticky than Post-It notes compared to the MS3's summer tires. But because of its AWD and tires, the WRX can go places the MS3 can't (snow) as C&D made clear in their "Road to Baghdad (sp?)" comparison test a few months ago where they ranked it last out of five cars if I remember correctly (MS3, Mini Cooper S, Honda Civic Si, Nissan Sentra SE-R, and the WRX TR). Based on the take of the article, I can believe all of the others finishing ahead of it except the Sentra SE-R! What were they thinking?!
Bob, I don't think we ever tested a 2007 WRX, but a 2006 WRX TR was tested in the 2006 Sport Compact Comparison test. I would like to see 2006 vs. 2007 on a track like Streets of Willow, not just the standard performance tests.
Having a 2008 WRX LT tester would be great! Especially, since I think living with a WRX would be where it would shine despite its shortcomings. Forget purchasing one! SOA should just give us one if they know what's good for them! :o)
"Especially, since I think living with a WRX would be where it would shine despite its shortcomings."
Precisely my point Loran. Everyone is so focused on styling and so-called performance shortcomings, that they've forgotten that vehicles are generally bought to be "daily drivers."
To me—that's the bottom line. What is it like to live with a vehicle over the long haul? I could care less if it's a few ticks slower through the quarter or the slalom. Virtually all discussions along these lines have been missing since images of the new WRX first appeared.
I want to know if this is a rewarding vehicle "to live with," and not just for carving up canyon roads.
Carving up roads is part of the daily drive! The more I travel around the country happier I am that not all cities build banal straight roads and not all cities are flat and featureless.
No doubt, but the key word in your statement is "part," meaning that vehicle ownership is far more than just fun roads in a fun car.
Is there money in the budget to outfit testers with better or worse tires to better matchthe tires in the rest of the pack? Are you guys as the automotive press "allowed" to do that?
BB, I offered to let the folks in Editorial use my Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R tires (P225/45R17) on 17" x 7" Prodrive P1 wheels (made for Prodrive by O.Z. Racing) when the test car was here. I don't think it's something we would have been allowed to do. :shrug: I don't know why as most "enthusiast" WRX buyers will probably do a wheel/tire swap. I would think Subaru wouldn't mind the new car putting numbers similar to the Mazdaspeed3 up either. I'm pretty sure with the stickier rubber, the new WRX would do a lot better in the skidpad test and probably the slalom. Braking distance would also be improved as well.
IMO, MS3 is infinitely better looking than this super ugly WRX.