I like that way of thinking. even if you lose they lose the money too.
Court costs, Lawyer costs, Cop costs. more people should do it.
 
It would result in a number of things.
 
Less officers showing up in court.
Longer lines in court.
 
Both resulting in more victories for the defendant.

Can you appeal, Karl?

This is hands down the coolest blog post ever Karl. I applaud you for taking the time to do this and let people know it can be done. I too also fight every ticket by going down to the courthouse for the same reasons you described.
 
I loved that the officer would gloat about making more overtime for going to court knowing that whatever he said was going to go in your blog the next day.

"Anything you Blog can and will be used against you... "
 
Because this appears to be all too true, I want to state for the record that I always pay attention to the road, and I never, ever, ever, speed or break any traffic laws.
 
Karl, if (or when) you get another ticket, will you deny speeding in your blog? Just in case big brother is reading.

did you tell the officer you were a journalist? how did he know to come here? i wouldn't have thought that would happen, but hey at least it shows how well your blog is getting around.
  
regarding your defense- it would have been really hard to win anyway, and it was good to have him read your thoughts about traffic stops, but going to court won't solve the problem.
  
what will be done when they decide to double, triple, or quadruple the penalty for speeding?
  
they'll find a way to make it profitable.
  
the fundamental problem is that police officers are doing their job. a lot of them wont ticket you for something so trivial since you're not posing a threat and it's probably more dangerous to stop you to begin with- but as you see many cops will. and theyre legally justified (actually responsible) to do so.
  
as the public, these laws are our responsibility. with more capable and advanced cars these days why don't we up the speed limits where we can? and be alert when they try to raise penalties. im not saying we should allow 50mph through a school zone. those are fine, but if a road is straight and well paved with no intersections for dozens of miles- 55mph is an unreasonably low speed limit. you end up with traffic moving at 55 and some moving faster. that's a bigger problem than just setting the limit to 75 (for instance) to begin with.
 
not making that change is creating an unsafe situation on the road for a little revenue. and ultimately, you're taking lives for a little cash. but then again, with such lax drivers license requirements and such an uneducated public, this fight would definitely not be an easy one.

Wow, so he knew who you were? Did you tell him? did he do his own research? That's a shock.
 
FWIW, I always push out my court dates to at least a year after the fact. It seems they don't show up (or maybe I've been lucky or I was in the right?).

tek, I got hauled over the night for turning too quickly. Cop said I took the turn too fast. I asked him to describe what that meant. Did my tires squeal? Did I leave the lane? Did I go over the speed limit of either road? He answer no to all of those questions.
 
After running my stuff he came back and told me to have a good night but "turn more slowly." Yeah. My guess is, he thought he'd found a DUI and instead found an indignant Mini driver annoyed that an already bad day was ending 2 blocks from home with a wholly unwarranted stop by a bored cop.

Great post. I have been thinking about this for a while. When people complain about the EXTREME unfairness and the SEVERE INJUSTICE that civilians receive in traffic court, it falls on deaf ears UNTIL it happens to that person. By then, Person A has already forgotten the bitter taste.
 
Karl, for us New Jersey residents, losing a traffic case, costs us POINTS in addition to a fine. I'd be happy to take a fine and have a chance to fight, but many people cannot afford the hike in insurance, hence the revenue building "plea bargains" are in place.
 
The masses need to rise up and fight the system, and appeal judges that do NOT offer justice, as in your case. How can only the incriminating half of your blog be true? Karl stop half lying to us...

Thanks, Karl, for letting us know how it ended!

It costs us points on our license, too. But if you have only one speeding ticket ever three years it won't affect your right to drive or your insurance rates (well, it shouldn't...your mileage and insurance company may vary).
 
If I get another ticket within the next three years I'll have to more seriously weight the traffic school option, but for now that's just another revenue source for the system, so I declined the judge's offer to attend it after she found me guilty (she was still going for that profit side of the equation...but I didn't bite...)
 
I did NOT tell the cop who I was when he pulled me over. But he had a Google alert set up that obviously flags anything that says "Ventura County" and "speeding ticket" or "cop."

Always, always, always go to court.
 
Twice the cop didn't show up in my case. Case dismissed.
 
The other time I took a class and got rid of the points.
 
In 22 years of driving I have never once had a point on my record.

Way to stand up to the man!! I'd be willing to bet that as soon as he saw your blog, he made it a point to show up for your date to prove a pount though.

No wonder, Karl. Google for "ventura county speeding ticket cop" and your blog post comes up FIRST!

This isn't the first example I've seen using this kinda stuff against people. I was working at an office, and one of the HR people and the hiring agent would routinely look for applicant's pages on sites like facebook and myspace, as well as just generically googling the name. They would screen the kinds of things they had up on those sites and would weight them when considering people. I know of at least two people that didn't get interviews based on what they had on their myspace pages. I'm pretty against that kinda stuff, but I'm not on either site, and now I have even more reasons not to join.

mcrun - ever Google yourself? interesting what you find. First thing on mine - linkedin.com. After that I found very little about myself - movie reviews and campaign contributions.

Sorry, this is too late for Karl, but for other CA drivers: http://www.ticketassassin.com/
  
Basically, the site has some very useful guides for fighting traffic tickets, including a written Not Guilty plea and Trial By Written Declaration (allows you to contest by mail, so you don't even have to take time to go to the court, plus the officer needs to submit a counter by writing - which they usually don't get OT for doing, unlike going to court). If this fails, you can then try again in person in court (Trial de Novo). There's more too, with lots of articles on methods to contest tickets, etc., but the written trial was as far as I got, since my ticket was dismissed at the written stage - the officer never submitted his side and I never went to court, only wrote a couple letters.
  
Note I have no relation to this site, aside from using it successfully once a couple years ago. It's a $25 shareware to get the forms - money well spent for me.

Cops reading blogs? There goes the "Ways to Evade Speeding Tickets" post (okay, I'll offer my #1 anyway, which is "choose the right equipment; red supercoupe=bad, gray sedan=good").
 
BTW, I googled my handle. I'm not the same 7driver as in other forums, if anyone's wondering. Fortunately, googling my real name returns some of my more meaningful contributions to society at the top :-)

"... if everyone followed this practice it surely would collapse and they'd have to stop trying to make money by turning our peace officers into radar jockeys."
 
If everyone followed this practice, the probable response by the highway robbery industry would be changing the law to remove your right to go to court in the first place.

You likely right, aspade.
 
I give California credit (blame) for already making the system work for itself and against the individual.
 
In Colorado, where I grew up, ANY ticket could be contested through a jury trial. You had to send in your paperwork within 10 days of the citation, and you had to enclose a small fee ($15? $20? -- can't remember). Once you did this, you could show up at the courthouse with the receipt for your jury trial authorization and ask to speak to the DA. You tell him, "I'm fighting this ticket, and I've already requested and jury trial. Here are my documents."
 
At this point the DA gives an annoyed shrug and says, "What do you want to plead?" He knows that the cost of a jury trial far outweighs whatever the government might have made on your ticket -- even if you lose (which often you don't, because when you put real people, versus only judges, in the position to hear these cases guess what the conviction rate is?).
 
You say to the DA, "I'll plead to a two-point unsafe vehicle charge." That charge doesn't count as a moving violation, so no chance of insurance hikes. Plus the fine is pretty cheap ($45 if I remember correctly). My dad (the lawyer) taught me this one.
 
In Cali, you can't get a jury trial for an infraction, so the only way to get one is to get clocked going over 20 mph. Obvioulsy I don't recommend this. Driving in an unsafe manner to prove that most speeding tickets aren't about safety sort of defeats the purpose. But IF you do get hit for over 20 mph then you've graduated to the "big time" and your offense allows you to request a jury trial (since I've never done this I don't know what you could plead this down to...).
 
So, the next time a cop pulls you over and says, "I got you at 78 in a 55, but I'm going to 'cut you some slack' and only write you up for 74" you can go ahead and tell him, "Gee thanks. You've just shuttled me from a potential jury trial to the standard revenue generation system where only a judge -- paid by the government -- makes the decision. You're a real sport." How many of you have already heard this one? Now you know why.
 
You can bet that if everyone started fighting their traffic infractions like I do there'd be a sudden change where you basically just have to pay your tickets in full -- up front -- and then go through a long process of paperwork and waiting several months to see if you're fortunate enough to "get" the joy of fighting the system and possibly get your money back. Or something along those lines.

I've already fought a speeding ticket and lost - and lost the chance to do traffic school. I finally turned 25 a few months ago and my insurance is just now falling under $2,000 a year.
 
They've beaten me into submission... I'll take the traffic school option next time.

My problem is the last 3 speeding tickets I've gotten have all been out of state, in little podunk speed trap towns - to fight it, you have to appear in court in that particular state (and return to that little podunk town)... that leaves me little choice but to pay the ticket and not contest it.
 
Those little speed trap towns on state highways are the real killers, and often they will target a car with out of state plates for this very reason.
 
Bastards...

I guess the fruit of Edmunds' search engine optimization (SEO) efforts turned out to be a bad thing here. :(

The "middle-of-nowhere" tickets are a whole 'nother matter. No winning there. I actually wasted the time to drive to Dumas, Texas (I came up with a different name for that town -- see if you can guess it...) from Denver when I was just out of college. I'd been clocked in my 1987 Dodge Shadow, but a Jeep Grand Cherokee was coming up fast behind me and was very close to my rear bumper when I got clocked. I mentioned it to the officer, "Sir, there was a larger car that was coming up fast behind me. I know I wasn't going as fast as your radar clocked me." I can't remember the speed he claimed, but I remember looking at my speedo when my radar detector went off and thinking, "Oh, I'm only a couple over. He won't ticket me. Of course that Jeep back there is going pretty fast..."
 
So I drive the seven hours down to fight the ticket and I see the officer and the judge hanging out on the porch of the court house (jawin', as they might say) when I pull up. That's when I knew I was wasting A LOT of my time. The seven-hour drive home gave me plenty of time to think about speeding tickets and public safety. Oh well, that drive along Interstate 25 is sorta scenic.
 
Steven Cole-Smith wrote an excellent editorial on speeding tickets and radar detectors a few years back, and his description of fighting his ticket was hauntingly familiar...
 
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=104746

Wow! SCS got "robbed" (substitute with other choice verbs in the past tense if you like)! What happened to him was heinous!

At least in California, it is possible to contest your ticket and then, if you lose, still take traffic school.
 
Sometimes, you can even take traffic school more than once every 18 months and have it count, if the judge allows it (although probably less likely if you've contested the ticket).
 
Although really, if the infraction is in California, contest it by mail - it's easy and takes relatively little time.

"Wow! SCS got "robbed" (substitute with other choice verbs in the past tense if you like)! What happened to him was heinous!"
 
Don't forget that's exactly what just happened to me. When Officer Williams pulled me over I asked him three questions. "Where were you when you clocked me? Were you moving or stationary? Are you sure it was me, as there were three other cars between us?" (I had a strong sense of the answers to 1 and 2 already because I did eventually see him a couple seconds before he turned on his lights, went past me and flipped a U-Turn, which is why I asked him where he was when he clocked me -- because I was sure those other vehicles were between us at the time.)
 
His answers, "I was down this stretch of road a couple hundred yards (confirming those other cars WERE between our vehicles at the time). I was moving at the time. And yes, my radar can tell which of you was going the fastest." (That last answer is a lie right there, and yet it was an acknowledgement of OTHER CARS IN THE AREA)
 
So I subpoena his notes from the stop, and what does he write? "I spotted suspect vehicle. I estimated his speed at 70. I got a clean radar lock of 72. THERE WERE NO OTHER CARS. Suspect asked where I was when I clocked him and if I was moving or stationary." (NO MENTION OF MY ASKING HIM ABOUT THOSE OTHER CARS IN HIS NOTES)
 
So he took the time to write down what I had asked him during the stop YET CONVENIENTLY DID NOT WRITE DOWN THE QUESTION I'D ASKED THAT WOULD HURT HIS CASE.
 
Ah, but then he submits my blog as evidence, and my blog accurately mentions the other cars. Heck, my blog even specifies that I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE OTHER CARS...but the judge decided to ignore that part of my blog.
 
Makes you want to take a tape recorder with you whenever you get behind the wheel... Hmmm...
 
But you know, traffic enforcement is all about public safety.

From what I understand, this tip works from state to state, so here goes on a way to avoid having a citation actually on your record. You'll still pay the ticket price but if you're worried about points or insurance, it'll be helpful.
 
What I've been told is that if you mail in the cost of your citation plus one dollar, they'll have to send you a check for the sum of your overwritten amount. If you never cash that check and just tear it up, in their system it will still be listed as an incomplete transaction, so the infraction won't actually be on the books.
 
Haven't tried it myself because I've never been pulled over, but that's something I've heard more than once.

Maybe I missed it.. Did you ever deny that you were speeding? That might have bolstered your defense, rather than all of the stuff about the officer's radar.
 
As far as wasted time. This works out okay for you, as you can write about it (maybe even expense the ticket, lol). But for those of us that have to use a vacation day to go to court, only to have the case continued because the officer didn't show up, then use another vacation day to go back, it just isn't worth it.
 
Especially, if you are guilty in the first place... :-)
 
Interesting, and it might be worth it, if you rack up speeding tickets quarterly... but, not for me. I've seen the justice system at work, before. No need for a field trip.

phinneas519, this "overpaying a traffic citation to avoid points on your license" has been a popular urban legend that's been going around for years, and unfortunately it's totally false. Believe me, I wish it wasn't... but it is.
  
Here's more proof:
  
http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ticket.asp

Ah, Dumas, TX - friend flies to Denver with family, rents a car to drive to Corpus Christi, TX (he 'wanted to see the state' - I tried to tell him it's FLAT), drives down, then, while driving back to Denver gets stopped outside of Dumas for speeding. Now the fun part - he returns the rental car, they pull up his record, "Sir, you got a ticket in Texas? Well, you were renting under the in-state rates. We now have to charge you $0.30 a mile, all miles!" That added only about $750 onto the cost of the ticket...

Yeah! You got robbed, too, Karl! :(

Interesting that your blog was submitted as "evidence". Since when is that a sworn statement? I guess when they said that anything you say can be used against you in a court of law, they really meant it.
 
The whole system is stacked against you.
 
The one time I fought a ticket in court, I ended up winning even though the officer showed up (I didn't know they got overtime pay for doing this). I was the first defendant of the day with a substitue judge (the regular judge was clearly buddy-buddy with the cops when I sat in on traffic court weeks earlier). Second, the officer didn't recognize me, and he was suprisingly forthright that he couldn't be sure that the person he pulled over was me (when he pulled me over, my driver's window was at his belt buckle, he never leaned in to look at me, and I barely spoke). Third, I cross-examined the officer, and the judge dismissed the case because the officer admitted to losing sight of my car while he was pacing me. I walked out with the case dismissed to thumbs-ups from the next defendants.
 
I'll reiterate that besides everyone fighting their tickets in court, the next best act of civil disobedience would be for everyone to simply not speed for a year. The cops would lose their source of revenue.

"actually wasted the time to drive to Dumas, Texas (I came up with a different name for that town -- see if you can guess it...)"
  
The only Texas "dumas" I can think of is from Midland, so that's my guess. :-).