all 3 cars are on the high end of my buying scale for my next car. and all 3 are apporved by the wife to be... now if she only would like the mazdaspeed 3. my pocketbook would like me more.

Ewww, Karl, did you just compare Mercedes C-class to a Camry?!
 
Next time you are in Germany you better watch out -- they might arrest you and submit a copy of this blog as evidence :-))

I'm glad the CTS is such a success, this is really what Cadillac needed all along. If I were in the market for this type of car the CTS would be it because of the interior and exterior styling, and the fact that its probably roomier than anything else.

I expected better from the Benz..... Yay for the Cadillac! I'm very glad GM is finally producing top-quality products. Somehow I've never liked the G35; it just doesn't look like a luxury sedan to me.
 
Opfreak, I'm sure your wife-to-be would approve of the MS3 once she test-drives it! If she wants more interior room, what about the MS6? As much as I love the CTS, there is no getting away from the fact that it is very, perhaps too, expensive!

blackadder5639.
 
thinks I need to drive a 'bigger' maniler car. if she had here way, i'd be driving a vette right now. Which even though a good car, not something i'm a huge fan of.
 
Same for the wrx. not big on the small hatches. And I'm not a fan of the speed6. but the msrp on a speed6 is close to the CTS.

Karl,
 
Great analysis. Steering feel seems very important to you, as it is to me. Two questions (I realize these are subjective): With all three side by side, which one looks the best and would you buy any of them?

pflyer,
I know your question is for Karl but I hope you don't mind my chipping in. In terms of looks it's between the C350 and the CTS. In terms of price, the G35. Overall, I like the CTS best.
 
opfreak,
Interesting! One thing: maybe I'm being naive since I'm nowhere near getting married and never been in a long-term relationship, but I get the feeling you're buying the car as your personal car.....and if that's the case, why should your wife-to-be have a say in the choice? Since it's not primarily a family car, I'm thinking all that should matter (to her) is that your choice would be roomy/practical enough to run occasional family errands and carry kids, and have reasonable price....and the MS3 excels for all that! Beyond that it should be your choice entirely! What sayeth thou? Am I being too naive?

Shouldn't the better lap times, slalom performance and steering ratio give that car the crown. I mean these are the OBJECTIVE findings. Aren't these the most important?
 
Do any of these have gooseneck hinges? Do all the seats fold down in a 60/40 split? But do they have audio controls in the back seat (a la Saturn Aura)?
 
Aren't you showing a bias if you don't give the title of best in the comparison to the car having the best spreadsheet numbers? I am shocked at your bias and obvious ignorance of the "clear" better car here. I mean just look at the numbers. We here are all sick of hearing about "build quality" HOW do you PROVE that? Steering quality, how do you PROVE that. We all know what's going on here, and I am just the one to POINT IT OUT.
 
[Severe Tongue in Cheek for the uninitiated]

blackadder
 
"Am I being too naive?"
 
I'll let him answer for himself, but in a word: Yes. When you get married even your choices become a delicate negotiation. And it goes both ways.

^ lol
 
Yeah, well it's ugly :)

Brett,
are you feeling numerical today?

Thanks, Brett. Looks like I have a lot to learn......
 
Karl, you mentioned the stereos of these cars. I've noticed that recent road tests on Edmunds have not included the Stereo Evaluation, which i like very much. Are we going to see stereo evaluations again soon?

"And it goes both ways."
 
blackadder, he's just kidding you. It doesn't go both ways.
In a long term relationship, just remember no matter what you do, you're wrong, and should appologize (no matter how insincere).

Uh, where's the king of this bunch? It's not like it's hard to get a hold of a 335i.

Norm is right. I just try to keep some semblance of my manhood. But he is correct. All TOO correct.
 
The best part is when you start pretending not to hear them from the next room. Or you claim that they didn't say certain things. It starts out as a game, and then when you get older I swear you really don't hear them anymore and really can't remember when they ask you to do something.

"Uh, where's the king of this bunch? It's not like it's hard to get a hold of a 335i."
 
Give the General a break. After Billions of dollars spend they deserve their moment in the sun.

I wonder if you would have liked Mercedes better if it was made in the USA.

ulimately I pick the car. she picked hers. but their input is important, and while not a family car, the car will be around for both of us for a long time.
 
For me the next car i get will be picked in this order:
price
performance
appearance.
 
Her order:
price.
Appearance
 
.
perfomance.
 
(spaces added to show the relative rank of performance to appearance.

opfreak,
 
Interesting preference order. Mine is:
how much do I enjoy being behind the wheel
performance
price
size/utility (not too big AND not too little for my purpose)
appearance

I have to have price first, because I'm not going to go test drive a m3 when I know I cant afford the car.
 
Performance for me, includes the behind the wheel feel. I've stated it before. my test drives will be both short and long. first a short vist/drive to a long list of cars.
 
Knock some chocies off right off the back. Then pick 2 or 3 I really like and sit/drive them longer and finally pick one.

PF -- In terms of looks, I like the Caddy the best. It could be argued that the somewhat extreme styling of the Caddy won't age the best, but right now, today I think it's the most interesting to look at. The other two are fine...just not really compelling in any clear way as far as looks go.
 
Yes, the obvious question is: What about CTS vs 335i? Great points above about price, performance and space. If you ask me "BMW or Caddy?" in a vacuum (i.e. no other qualifiers) I still say 335i. If you ask me, "Okay now which one, and YOU are paying the money and YOU are driving the car as a primary source of transportation for YOU and YOUR FAMILY" I think I'd have to go CTS.
 
More interior space
Better ride quality overall (though not better in terms of pure handling, obviously)
Far better audio/nav system (not having iDrive is good, but having the CTS' superb audio/entertainment/nav system only adds to the joy)
And (if careful with option checking) better value
 
This is a tough decision, because we also have a 335i right now and I took it home last weekend, and that car is simply FABULOUS!
 
(Hmm, almost sounds like we have all the right players for a great full-fledged comparison test...)
 
So, basically, this is a very difficult choice -- and one you can't really lose on either way. I love it when that happens (ala Sienna/Odyssey).

The CTS would be the one in my garage. The styling, price, and GM's know-how on powertrains are just a perfect combination. Y'know...just looking at the pic of the 3 cars, the Infiniti actually stands out the LEAST. For a car which has the most exciting drive, it looks a little derivative and bland sitting next to the MB and Caddy. The MB can best be described as a solid choice, but does it inspire any lust like the CTS does? Eh...not really. However, the MB is good at giving a nice, quiet, comfortable ride. Just what the doctor ordered after a long day at work.
 
My order: 1) CTS 2) C350 3) G35
  
The CTS is a great car, and it's just good to see a competitive product coming from Cadillac.

I've only driven the G35 and though it a lumbering pile of banality, so I can't say with certainty I'd want it over the C or CTS.
 
Important for me:
 
Performance
Ergonomics
Space
Price
Safety
Reliability
Appearance/Design
 
Even though my family gets special GM/Ford pricing, I can't imagine we will ever use it. The CTS and new Holden...er G8 offer interesting choices but anything over 25k for an American car sounds far-fetched to me. Now the new Subaru STI wagon...oh baby.

I asked before:
Why is the CTS compared to the BMW 3, when size wise it is practically the same size as the 5 series? Same question for the G35.
 
When compared, the CTS will be faulted for not handling as well as the 3 series - but how can it when it is the size of a 5 series?

A great point mnorm. I think the price makes people compare the two, but in terms of size (and luxury) the 5 makes a better comparison. But compare it to the 5 and the whole thing falls apart for me. The 5 Series costs more, has iDrive AND active steering. Not even close.
 
Rumor has it that Caddy will introduce a small sedan in a few years, letting the CTS move upmarket to officially go after the 5. Personally I wouldn't change a thing about the CTS and just introduce a smaller sedan that undercuts the 3 the way the CTS currently undercuts the 5. Maybe something small (and cheap) enough to even threaten the 1 Series. That'd be very cool if they could pull it off -- and timely considering the growth in the "small, premium" market and the increasing focus on fuel mileage.

Ok, but if Cadillac does do that what becomes of the STS? They just refreshed it this year so we can say they wont discontinue it anytime soon, but at the same time the STS is not in the same league as the 7 Series, S Class, A8, LS460 etc.

folks
 
They are all great cars, fun to drive. I'm sure some people are wondering how the 335 would compare. The CTS would be my choice based upon both its exterior and newly improved interior.
 
Opfreak, I have the same wife. Her priorties are like your wife's. Performance to her is the car accelerates good enough to get on the freeway without an issue and can pass cars when necessary(two lane roads). Although with the new XR, she is just starting to appreciate the difference between adequate and fun. Her minivan is adequate. Fun is the XR.
 
For years I have to hear, the van can go 100 easily enough, why do you need more power? It is a rare and wonderful thing when a woman comes along who understands and appreciates performance.
 
They are truly a gift from above.

"They are truly a gift from above."
 
Kiss ass

brett8210
 
Read again. Not once did I say my wife values performance cars. No way, I am married to the anti-performance woman. I said if you encounter a woman who likes performance cars, then thank above.

It was just a joke. I think all of us need to stick together when it comes time to combat the wife. Epecially when she takes a look at the Camry or Avalon and says "Look how luxurious and all the stuff you get, why do you want a BMW, CTS, G35 ....?"
 
I agree with you, a woman that loves to drive is a gift from above, but it still is a comment that deserves a little ribbing.

"....anything over 25k for an American car sounds far-fetched to me....."
 
Come on, Blueguy, if the American car is worth its price (and you can afford it) why not pay for it? Be nice to that Caddy CTS.... :)

My girlfriend drives a 2004 BMW 325i sedan, and it has a proper clutch and 5-speed. Her dream car is a Lotus Elise.
 
Doesn't stop her from being infuriatingly female when she's not driving, though. ;-D

you never know when big brother or big sister is watching :o)
 
I have often wondered how much the big guy above is laughing when it comes time to buy a car. I know the priorties my wife has, all options inside the car. She really could care less about engine, transmission, suspension, etc. I know my daughter is just like her, thank god we have a son as well.
 
The only thing that would cause me to hesitate about the 335 is the lack of space. The guys I go to football games are all 6 foot tall or taller. They fit fine in the XR, but I wonder if the 335 has the legspace in the back seat. Otherwise, a great car. In five years when the son turns 18, my how the automotive options will grow.

"My girlfriend drives a 2004 BMW 325i sedan, and it has a proper clutch and 5-speed. Her dream car is a Lotus Elise.
  
Doesn't stop her from being infuriatingly female when she's not driving, though. ;-D"
 
Yes but the key word there is "GIRLFRIEND". There is a transformation that takes place with the word WIFE. My wife wanted an M3 when we were dating. We have a Minivan and she has her eyes on the new Acadia.
 
Why does the bride smile when she goes down the aisle ... It is True in all things.

Karl you mention how you find the 335i "fabulous". My question is, is this model what defines the traditional fun-to-drive BMW?
 
If so, then in this case more horsepower is what gives this car the FTD factor versus the lower models, because that is really the only extra the 335i adds, right?

That's true, though it's not just the horsepower number that counts here. The way that engine delivers power is dowright addictive. Twin-turbo thrust with essentially no lag, plus a great engine/exhaust note.

So, back to my first question, then what is your verdict on FTD for this car?

The 3 Series is the most purely FTD car with four doors currently available.

I completely agree with Karl, the cts is the best looking (both inside and out), roomiest, best combinations of sport and luxury by far, and has the best electronics of the group. I prefer the c350 over the g35 though. Doesnt really matter because caddy is back, and with a vengeance!

What about the audi a4? How would it compare to those three? I wouldn't expect any of these cars to surpass it's interior quality & design, but how about the other aspects? - ride, handling, steering, etc..
 
I'm planning on purchasing a midsize luxury car, hard to decide but to be honest non of the Japanese ones are inspiring style wise imo.

Yeah what happened to the A4? Is it that bad? I just built an Avant and though their configurator sucks, the price wasn't bad. I think it's also the only one that you can get in cloth, although not with a sport suspension, how much freakin' sense does that make?

the new A4 coming out next fall will be a serious contender. Right now the CTS is the best pick all around, especially with the warranty offered.

New A4's exterior is flawless and interior is much better looking than the current generation's. With that being said, they could've used more imagination because it looks like a carbon copy of the A6 and Q7. Still too stark and "Germanic" compared with the inviting IS and new CTS. The car also needs a more powerful engine because everyone else is at or around 300hp except for the C350.
 
When are we going to see a CTS in a color other the that dreadful RED? That Thunder Grey color is hot if anyone has seen it.

critique, the A4 is a compact, not a midsize.

It looks like the 2009 A4 would be a mid-sized. I'd say the current A4 is a mid-sized: is it not a large as the current Mazda 6?

Hmm...I've been ignoring Audi so much, like so many people, that I forgot the 2009. I re-read some Edmunds articles and have one comment for Audi: Give me the 2.0T with AWD and either a traditional manual or DSG, I'll take either, and keep the pricing close to where it's at now, and I might bite!

All three of the cars involved are compelling. When cars are this close I think styling is important and the CTS looks better than both inside and out.
 
I think the 335 is obviosuly superior in terms of handling and nimbleness but I dont see how its higher performance threshold is going to matter much in everyday driving. I would think the CTS is more capable than anyone really needs for driving on public roads. I'll take the size and more inviting interior of the CTS over the ubiquitous 3.
 
The new A4 is hot. The additional size does its body good.

I went a few weeks ago to check out the CTS, not to buy one just to check it out. I was VERY suprised with the overall presentation of the car especially the 304hp version with the nice wheels and big sunroof. But what Im not understanding is how people can call it a value by the examples Ive seen.
 
Out of the 11 or so CTSs that were on the lot NONE of them were under $40K. The cheapest was around $42 and the most expensive was about $48. I know you can purchase one for under that price but I think the dealers are going to have a lot of the higher end versions available. The local BMW dealer usually has the 3's starting about $38K and go up to around $48.
 
My order:
335i Sport 6MT: Id get the coupe as I like the styling better.
 
CTS: bold tasteful styling/is the 304hp version available with a manual?
 
TL Type S 6MT: I know its FWD but it will suprise you.
 
C300 Sport AMG: cant get a 350 with a manual and the 300 is MUCH cheaper.
 
G35: value, yes. refinement, no!

chavis10:
 
"With that being said, they could've used more imagination because it looks like a carbon copy of the A6 and Q7. Still too stark and "Germanic" compared with the inviting IS and new CTS. The car also needs a more powerful engine because everyone else is at or around 300hp except for the C350."
 
I would agree... but you have to remember, Audi's press shots have only shown the interior in black with aluminum trim. BORING. It will look many, many times better in beige or red with wood trim, I guarantee you. In fact, in one British article, they tested a silver S-Line model (3.2 quattro) with the red interior and it looked absolutely incredible, inside and out. It's the new looker in this class-- and, finally, it drives well, too.
 
I'm a huge Audi fan (I have an S4 Cabriolet and an A3), but the standard B6/B7 A4 has never impressed me. I'm loving the B8, though.

I only see 2 major issues with Audi. 1st the pricing. These things are expensive! 2nd would be the lower than average reliability. If Audi could improve on both points then I could see them selling a lot more vehicles.
 
Audi styling and design is always top notch. The interiors are the standard of the industry.

Hondacura4, the 304 hp CTS is available with a manual when you order RWD :D AWD comes with automatic only :(
 
I surely agree that the CTS it is expensive and certainly not "good value". What I can't understand is a 3-series (apart from the M3) costing $48k too! That's ridiculous.......well, they don't call it a luxury car for nothing. Just shows how this "starting from" price is really a scam! SOmething with a "starting price" of $32k ends up being $48k! I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay much more than $40k for a 3-series; I'd rather get the CTS!
 
The question then is that how come there are so many 3-series on the road, given their prices? Wow, people are really loaded, especially in Cali!!!

esf, okay. I'm sure it'll look better with a more vibrant interior color scheme. Makes me think of when Audi used to feature the "Atmospheres" in the last generation A6/A8, lol.
 
Blackadder- I'd agree, there's nothing "entry level" about the CTS or 3 series. In order for one of these bad boys to feel like a step up over a non luxo car, you need tons of options and end up over $40k. IMO, owning one of these cars is pointless without all the bells and whistles.
 
I also hate Cadillac's new pricing scheme as they bundle loads of options together that can add $8k or so with just one check box. Why is there so little separation between the standard and 3.6DI versions? The DI trim should have standard 18"s, leather, etc.

hondaacura,
 
I dont think anyone is calling the CTS a bargain, it is priced to compete with the 3 and C class and they are not exactly Hyundais either. Cadillac is saying that they can charge what others charge if the product is good enough. I believe the CTS is good enough to do well at these prices and based on last month's sales the public agrees.
 
A loaded 335i is $54k.
 
I dont agree that Audi is the standard of the industry in interior design these days. Their edge is diminishing and I am not a huge fan of the current corporate dash design which has the climate controls buried low in the center stack. I think Lexus interiors are every bit as nice and have much better gauges and illumination. I think the CTS interior LOOKS as good or better than the A6/A4 interior. Honestly, I am not crazy about the interior designs of any of the German brands even though the materials are nice.

My 335i coupe started at about $41k and after a lotta options it was about $50k. There are about $15k worth of extras, so you can actually top it out around $57k if you get it all (active steering, active cruise, Steptronic, etc). The base car is certainly not stripped either, but I like that BMW gives you a lot of options to choose from with few restrictions.
 
The 3-series is a wide range - a base 328i sedan starts at about $33k and a 335i convertible will top out past $63k.

"is the 304hp version available with a manual?"
 
No it isn't, I wondered the same thing.

Yes it is available with the manual, but not with all-wheel drive (as stated above).

1487...must be sad to live somewhere that you can't play with your car daily. That'd blow.

Anyone see the latest Desperate Housewives episode? One of the neighbors had a red CTS, just like the one pictured above. I was glad to see something other than a Nissan.

Saw it. Definitely good to see anything that isn't a Nissan -- or Ford related (Volvo XC90, Aston, Jag, de-badged Montego, etc.)
 
I was just commenting to my wife how you never see a minivan on that show (a show called DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES). A realistic reflection of changing vehicle tastes, or just the desire to have no one driving an "uncool" vehicle in a primetime show?
 
Of course I only saw these things while walking through the room while my wife watched...

The show Burn Notice must be sponsored by GM as one character went on and on all year about his CTS. Gotta admit it seemed "real" as most people I know talk about their cars. Also on Heroes they made a big deal about a 16 year old getting a Nissan Rogue (Nissan is a very obvious sponsor of the show as the Versa was mentioned constantly last year).

Karl,
 
The first year one of the characters had a minivan (Chrysler). I think it is the one that had all the bratty kids. Not that I watch the show. But did notice that.

someone on Desperate Housewives has a 300. Also there was an episode where the Lacrosse was featured prominently. They allow a lot of brands to advertise within the show although Nissan and Ford seem to be the biggest players.
 
bdc,
 
that is the world most people live in as urban and suburban areas get more congested. Unfortunately, I dont have time to make dedicated trips into the countryside to drive on unclogged two lane roads and I suspect that's the case for most people.

1487, I live in a big city too (last time I checked San Diego is kinda big). That doesn't change the fact that we have hills, turns, side-roads, beautifully sweeping feeders/ramps, etc.
 
Like I said, that's a bummer that you don't have any roads where you can put a car through its paces. I've traveled around the country and yeah in some places like Oklahoma and Florida t seems all the roads are straight and flat. Other places still have some fun spots though. Bummer.

there are places in the city and nearby where you can do some spirited driving. I never said otherwise. All I said was that the CTS' handling limits are good enough for what most owner will be able to do on public roads. In other words, you probably need to be on a track to really exploit the differences between the 335 and CTS. I'm sure you will disagree.

1487, you may be right. I watch the lines people take in corners and I know most people don't give a hoot about hitting the apex just right.