Subbie does have a model under 17k, the imperza 4door starts at 169xx or something like that.
 
So it could be a bit less. I heard some suggest that subbie should drop the awd from a new car so they could get cheaper... I dont know about that.. If your company is about awd don’t try to do something else. I would also not try to make subaru big, it has a nich and should stay their.
 
What I would do:
Higher new stylists. I'd leave the imprza as is (even a bit boring) but add a style kit: an S model, a bit more aggressive front and rear end, and dare I say it a spoiler on the 4door.
 
Maybe drop the price to a flat 16k for the stock imperza, and 17 for the S model.
 
The legacy needs a redesign as well, the imperza now looks to much like it... maybe a Malibu type of remake, its way to boring.
 
The Outback/forster. these 2 cars seem way to similar for the market. I'm not sure, but are both based on the same chassis? I'd drop one.
Probably keep the out back. Give it a bit more edge. a bit harder looking. a bit more power.
 
The tribeca looks good in person, I don’t know if I'd touch it.
 
And finally.. since their working with Toyota. I'd try to steel some hybrid technology.
 
So overall: More style, More aggressive lines.
-------
 
I think I'd also get some better ads. Esspically with all the new awd compeition. Point out how the subbie system is better then these slap on after thoughts of awd.

Continue the Legacy Wagon's in the US. No brainer to do this as they are still manufacturing them in Indiana and sending them to Canada.
I agree with the entry level car. Make it all wheel drive.
Consider FWD cars, at some point in the future this is going to be a necessity.
Continuity in design is missing at Subaru, I could even get used to what popular opinion is bad design if Subaru could only decide what they want to be and stick with it.
Here is where I'm sure to be going against the tide, I believe Subaru should continue to produce a car based truck. Get rid of the body cladding, and maybe get rid of the Baja name.
Revise the trim levels on the new Impreza. Why is there not even an option of a sunroof and there is an option of NAV?
And where is a 5 speed automatic for the new Impreza design?
I can buy a good NAV such as Garmin C330 for $199, there is no way I'd add an aftermarket sunroof.
Do not supersize the Forester when it is redesigned, increase the rear legroom and update everything else and it will be a hit.
Change the tuning on the mid-line turbo engines to allow for regular unleaded and do whatever it takes to keep the top performance models at the levels they currently are at or higher performance.

They're a niche automaker, and in a time of contraction for the automotive business, niche doesn't make sense unless you're playing at the higher-end of the market (read: Porsche)
 
Honestly, the best thing for Subaru is for it to be acquired wholly by a larger company (similar to Ford/Mazda) so that it can retain its quirky, niche nature and feed its technology (AWD, boxer engines, traction control) into other makes as needed. In particular, seems like the marriage with Toyota will be beneficial, as it brings all the ingredients for a Celica All-Trac Turbo together.
 
For Subaru itself, its cars are ugly and heavy, and lost some of their lithe road manners from the 90's. Fire the design team and bring in the guys from Fiat or Pininfarina.

Karl,
 
I think your criticism is misguided. In my opinion, Subaru has picked the right strategic direction. Let me explain my point.
 
Number of cars sold is not everything. I bet that SoA and FHI are making healthy profits despite lower number of units sold. They have improved their image and their product mix tremendously since the early nineties. In 1991-1993 when the yen was sky high it was a big question mark whether Subaru would even remain in the US market. Their image was very poor -- other than loyal fans, everyone thought of them as "cheap and downmarket" and generally far worse in every category, except cost, than Toyota/Honda/Nissan. Look at them now. They are considered to be among the most reliable cars, as good as Toyota/Honda. Every year we see very high quality ratings. Thanks to WRX, Subaru is now considered "cool" and a "tuner favorite", which would be unthinkable 8-10 years ago. If I said "tuner favorite" and "Subaru" in 1998 when I bought my Impreza 2.5RS, people would have laughed me off the street. As a matter of fact, I had a very hard time finding any "tuner" parts for any of my Subarus prior to 2002 when WRX came out. Mike Shields of SPD (http://www.spdusa.com) was the early pioneer of Subaru tuning in North America and the only game in town for a while. I was one of his first customers. Other than SPD, one would have to order Subaru stuff from Europe of Australia because none of the typical Honda/Toyota/Nissan tuners offered anything for Subarus.
 
Offering a cheaper model would likely increase the number of cars sold, but would it necessarily be good for the company? Would it increase profits? Would it improve image? Image is not earned in a year, it takes time. I don't think Subaru is there now, but you can't fault them for not trying. Right now comparing a loaded $35k Outback to a similarly priced Audi A4 Avant is ridiculous. But having driven the new Impreza, I clearly see that they are making huge strides toward being more European-like or premium-like. The ride quality of the base model Impreza is just outstanding. It clearly feels like a European car.
 
I disagree with you on this one. Justy and Loyale were tremendous cars and are still among my favorite, especially in 4WD trim. But for most people I think Outback and Tribeca are far more "spot on", even if they stray far away from the old image of "inexpensive and built to stay that way."

miniharryc,
 
> Fire the design team and bring in the guys from Fiat or Pininfarina.
 
This is so ironic. Considering an Alfa Romeo man is responsible for the way new Subarus look now. Zapatina has since moved on to bigger and better things, so perhaps they will get back to their styling roots.

miniharryc
 
I dont see auto sales shrinking, esspically with markets like china and inida growing. and dont forget after that africa still needs cars.
 
I agree with you on opitions. I forgot about that goofy sunroof thing. I think people that have them love them. people that dont are generally indifferent.
 
The transmission talk stired up memories.
The wrx and sti should get DSG trannys as opitions. and since it does not appear subbie even has a 5 speed auto in the mix? (do they?) they might just want to get DSG to be the stanard auto tranny. 4speed autos are becoming so 90's.

I have about $17K to spend on a new commuter car. Subaru has two problems for me:
1) price
2) fuel economy
 
In sunny states, people aren't willing to pay $2,000 more for AWD, at least in the entry-level Impreza range. And I want at least 30 mpg combined, and base Impreza's 20/27 combined isn't impressive at all. I appreciate the boxer engine and AWD, believe me it was a fun test drive. But I can get a Fit, Civic coupe, or a used Mini if I want something sporty and still economical.

A better marketing department wouldn't hurt Subaru either. Their products are fine, but how many potential car buyers know what a Subaru is? That should be Subaru's main concern, right up top with their current design direction.

Two things:
  
-An americanized Subaru R1 with awd. Urbanites in the cold regions would LOVE it.
  
-Hurry up with the diesel boxer...seriously. If people could drive a subaru while getting 30+mpg consistanly, South Park would have to make an episode just to counter so many people having their cake and eating it too!

Look at some of the products they sell in the home market--2.0-liter turbo Legacy wagons and sedans, 6-speed sequential transmissions...heck, there's a whole lineup of STi Legacys with either 6MTs or 5-speed autos. Even at $35K-$40K, they would be legit contenders against Audi. That weak dollar, though....
 
http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/legacytunedbysti2007/

ahightower - Honestly If I was in charge of subaru. You wouldn't be my target cosumter. Sorry.
I personally dont see anything wrong with not having a car for 'every' one.
 
And yes you can buy a civic coupe for about 14,800 and get 25/36mpg.
 
But if subaru made a 14k fwd car that did the same thing as the civic, then geuss what, it would be a civic. or a corrolla.
 
And I dont think ethier of those cars come with an opition for AWD.
 
I also dont see why I would want to compete in that market, seems very crowded. Civic, corrolla, sentra, coblat,g5. etc. What would make my subbie stand out?
 
Sometimes not targeting a market is part of a smarter plan then making something just to have it.

If you realistically price/equip Outback or Legacy, you are into the $30K ranges (or low end Euro territory). At those prices, the Subie interiors are looking mighty cheap.
 
For Impreza WTX, offer direct injection engines with a 5 speed Auto trans, or 6 speed dual clutch manual transmission. The current engine-driveline has gone as far as it can.
 
And as Karl said, a new design team might be better at overall integration. Subarus have some nice features but many aspects (interior quality, rear seat foot room, styling aspects) feel tacked on or half finished.

Styling is definitely an issue. I think the powers that be at Subaru are somewhat gun shy here as there have been so many mistakes in the past. I get the sense they're grasping at anything that might work, without having a clear idea as to how to go about it.
 
Unlike most people, I was a strong proponent of the 3-piece grille theme they just abandoned. Why? Because it gave Subaru a strong visual identity that was uniquely their own. Some say it was "ugly." I disagree. I say it was not "fully cooked" when it was presented on the Tribeca. It still needed some refinement—and "the devil was truly in the details" when it came to this model. It was about 90% correct, but that last unresolved 10% killed it.
 
Also, Impreza sales, when it debuted with that same 3-piece grille theme in 2006, skyrocketed. Even in it's last year of model life production (2007), sales were rising. That's very rare in a vehicle at the end of its product life. Usually, by that time, sales are on the wane.
 
So I say that styling direction was correct—but the execution and implementation of it was a disaster—at least for the Tribeca that was the case.
 
So now you have Subaru backtracking on their styling, and ending up with a very generic look. Swap out the logo in the current Subaru grille for a logo from Kia, Chrysler, etc., and it would likely work. To me that's the biggest error. The visual "brand identity" is almost nonexistent.
 
BTW, I'm coming at this from being a graphic designer for over 30 years, and a part-time college graphic design educator for 15 years or so. I'm not saying that to impress anyone, but only to say that I think I know what I'm talking about here.
 
I too think killing off the Baja was a mistake. Yeah, the Gen-I model left a lot to be desired, but I think Subaru gave up on it way too early.
 
Subaru this past year replaced their CEO over in Japan. The guy now in charge has more of a marketing background, so let's keep our fingers crossed.
 
The real shame here is that they make excellent cars (we have 3), and that they continue to get such a bad rap by the automotive press—who by and large are as qualified to critique automotive design as they are to do brain surgery.
 
Subaru is a unique brand. There's no other brand like it out there. They need to maintain that aspect—and they desparately need to better manage their new model roll-outs.
 
Another problem that has hurt them is their small size. They have a very difficult time doing both major body redesigns and major mechanical upgrades in the same year. I have heard from someone in their R&D department that the just-released 3.6 Tribeca engine should have been in the original Tribeca—but they didn't have the manpower to pull it off. You see that with the new Impreza: It's a major body redesign, but with only minor mechanical upgrades. The good news is that Subaru does upgrade their models every year to a degree.
 
Oh, as to the current Tribeca? It's virtually the stillborn Saab 9-6x that died when GM parted ways with Subaru a couple of years ago. Most of the preliminary design work was done. All they had to do was basically swap out the grille and logos—and BINGO! You've got the new redesigned '08 Tribeca.

opfreak's right, you can't include everybody.
 
Given their AWD prowess, I don't see why they don't build more soft- or off-roaders. Toyota can now lend a hand with that.

I have a 2006 Legacy wagon and the quality is very good for the price point (I also have a 2007 3 series) with good design and great fit and finish. It has also been exceptionally reliable (30000 miles so far in 18 months). Subaru don't need to compete in every market. I was, initially, disapointed that they stopped selling the Legacy wagon for 2008 but the Outback is essentially the same car, just raised up a few inches. Probably saved them money not having to stock so many different models - a Toyota trait in not having multiple versions of essentially the same thing.

I agree. I've been calling for a Wrangler-fighter for years. Now that would be a hard (not soft) off-roader—but they could do it. Nobody seems willing to go head-to-head with the Wrangler. Subaru could if they wanted to. To me that's a no-brainer. But will they do it? I doubt it.
 
I think there are many other unique niche markets yet to be explored. A Wrangler-fighter is one. A small pickup is another—especially with today's gas prices; I'm hoping we see this again—and powered with their new boxer diesel. A Miata-like AWD sports car is still another.

What if Ferrari were to try to become a brand for "everyone"? Would people be pissed?
 
I think the same applies to Subaru, although to a lesser extent. When you're known as a niche brand, you can't try to be something to everyone. It goes against your entire history.
 
IMO, there are three things Subaru needs to work on:
 
1. Styling. Everyone has touched on this already, so I won't go into detail. All I'll say is that they need to keep their quirkiness while toning it down a bit. It's a balancing act and it'll be difficult, but if they can pull it off, it could appeal to a wider audience while still retaining their nature for the unusual styling.
 
2. Fuel economy. They can't keep offering their base vehicles (like the Impreza) with MPG ratings below 30. Ahightower touched on having a combined MPG of 30 at least. I say it's a good start. Today's fuel prices all but require it. It's another way to appeal to more customers without changing your character. And kudo's to them if they can get their AWD systems to work with higher MPG vehicles.
 
3. Price. Specifically for their lower end models. I don't know whether or not FWD should be offered (I'd side with "no" just because we're trying to retain their character and niche brand), but they need to find ways to cut costs. The Impreza is relatively cheap, but again, you enter the fuel economy question. Something below $16K would be better. The Lancer is being sold for, what, <$15K? Albeit as FWD, but does AWD NEED to cost an extra $2k? Maybe they should cut their profits on the base model in order to get more people into the brand. Once those people are in the brand, they can potentially move onto something like the STi or Forester, etc. I also agree about having some kind of off-road vehicle, like rsholland said. A Wrangler-fighter. It'd open the door for an entirely new market where their quirkiness could be successful. Lastly, make some kind of "sports" car again. Something like the SVX... only better. An AWD coupe with original styling. Keep with the boxer engine, of course. But I'd advise against using similar styling as the Impreza. Make it distinct. Oh, and more diesels :-)

I don't think I have much more to add to this discussion at this time.
 
For what it's worth, miniharryc, Toyota owns 8.7% of Fuji Heavy Industries, Ltd., the parent company of Subaru. You may interpret that however you like.
 
Karl, perhaps you could've used a photo other than that of the new Impreza sedan/"Corolla" (I just saw my first one (an Impreza 2.5i sedan) on the road (outside of a Subaru event) this morning traveling East on the Santa Monica freeway as I crawled along going West). A photo of the new Impreza WRX STI (HTML used due to link length) would've worked nicely. :o)

A FWD Subaru? To borrow a well known catch phrase: "Just say no."
 
One of the things that makes Subaru unique is their commitment to AWD. Offering FWD will just muddy that message. It's a bad idea.
 
AWD and their boxer engine is what makes them stand out from other brands, especially other Asian brands.
 
The funny thing is, under the skin Subaru is far more European in terms of thinking and engineering than Asian. Yet, what you see, the exterior, is often the pinnacle of Asian-bland (or Asian-awkward) styling. Thank God they're such a hoot to drive!

rsholland, I agree 100% with you on the 3 piece grill. It linked Subaru's past aviation history with the present and presented a Subaru identity.
I was OK with it's use on the Tribeca, however, it could have been modified to be less polarizing without sanitizing it completely and using the SAAB front end.
  
quote-
Unlike most people, I was a strong proponent of the 3-piece grille theme they just abandoned. Why? Because it gave Subaru a strong visual identity that was uniquely their own. Some say it was "ugly." I disagree. I say it was not "fully cooked" when it was presented on the Tribeca. It still needed some refinement—and "the devil was truly in the details" when it came to this model. It was about 90% correct, but that last unresolved 10% killed it.-end

I think Subaru's biggest failing right now is in the powertrain department. Their turbo 4s are great - for the crowd that thinks rear wings and parking lot drifts are cool. But people older than 30 don't want a boiling turbo. They want a smooth six that takes 87 octane and isn't part of a $10,000 trim upgrade.
 
On fuel economy, AWD has a mileage penalty. Period. Expecting the same mileage as FWD competitors is ignorant. Dumping the 4 speed auto in the 90s where it belongs for a 5, or better yet a 6 speed might get another mpg out of it, which certainly wouldn't hurt.

Latest word is that Subaru will be using CVTs in the future. Expect to see this on the all-new Legacy and Outback for MY 2010.

I think we'll see CVTs in Scoobys/Subies before 5ATs in the Impreza and Forester.
 
There was something a few months ago saying that Subaru was focusing its efforts in CVT development.
 
I'm really hoping Subaru brings direct injection to the party soon because they're already late.
 
For those who don't know, Toyota acquired 8.7% of Fuji Heavy Industries, Ltd. (FHI) mainly to get their hands on FHI's lithion-ion battery technology. While its development has not progressed as quickly as Toyota would like, it will be interesting to see what fruit is born as a result of this.
 
We also shouldn't forget that Toyota and Subaru swapped some engineers earlier this year, too. :o)

Yep, direct injection is another thing I believe Subaru is working on. I wish it were here now. Again, I suspect it's been delayed is because they've got so many other things on their plate.
 
I really hope that Toyota can help them out with the much needed manpower issue.

Suby
Since the STI is coming to LA, are you going to get a chance to drive it?

I bring up this "devil is in the details" thing again, as the new Impreza is really very close to being a good design. The body, at least with the 5-door, has much better proportions than the old model. Even the 4-door has better proportions than the outgoing model, but I think is less successful visually than the 5-door because of some really awkward rear styling cues.
 
Some more attention paid to the grille, tail lights, and larger tires would pay huge visual dividends. ...And these are items that can be easily massaged. We're not talking about major surgery here. These are all minor "details."

FWD Subaru, Just say yes.
 
CA, FL, TX among other states are areas where too many sales are lost with AWD only. Subaru has recently targeted the sunshine states for more dealers and growth.
 
If the business model of Subaru works with sales at current levels then I say fine, keep it the way it is, if Subaru requires growth then FWD is needed.

@aspade: Your thinking is in line with a very small fraction of typical Subaru buyers, "performance" oriented "enthusiasts". Majority of Subaru owners go for the basic 4 cyl. engines, which are completely appropriate. At this time I wouldn't change mine (2002 model) but for the more efficient model, hybrid or diesel.
 
I think that the article missed some points. I'll give my example why, despite being extremely satisfied with my 2002 Outback after about 160000 miles, I still won't buy a new one (although in the past I'd replace car with the new one by now). The main reason is not styling, actually I was quite fond of the short lived new external style (I hope they go back to it from the "new bland" look). My issues are: change to SUV spec for Outback (my main interest) and related issues (the only reason to do this is to cheat USA car standards); reducing utility by reducing usable interior space (why cut 10 cuft of cargo space?); no gas-mileage improvements (I am fine with 170hp 4 cyl engine, I am not fine that it have not been optimized and brought up to mid 30's mpg); no new technologies (I'd be on a short list if the real hybrid was introduced, or the diesel); no warranty improvements (many manufac. now offer 3 times longer warranties - for me this equals to not being confident in your own quality); bad decisions in creating new models I might want to upgrade to (ex. Baja with a complete pass-through to the cargo and factory-made cargo cap or canopy; Tribeca with passanger space that at least feels equal to the Outback [why make it so tight as it is now is much greater problem than the outside styling] and with usable trunk while front 2 rows of seats are up [I can't transport my dog in Tribeca like that while he is comfy in my smaller 2002 Outback, ex.]),...

Subaru sales are a little bit low but not hurting I don't think so. The point of getting Subaru on the same turf like the big three Japanese (honda, Nissan, & Toyota) will end up killing them and leaving the US. Subaru is know for AWD and Boxer engines.
 
They need an entry level car in the market? Yes, something they can put their stamp of AWD and boxer engine (2.0L eng. N.A as an example like a Suzuki SX-sedan category).
 
Models:
 
Impreza: Is going to take a while until the racing cars and tuners show up in the magazines and web sites. Then when the cars have their "warrior colors" it pumps your blod. 5 spd AOT needed.
 
Legacy: They are working on a new model very soon and they were thinking on getting a flat 6 turbo for the future for a while. They have both 4 cyl N.A and Turbo models and the 6 cyl N.A. 5 AOT is needed
 
Forester: New 5 spd AOT needed and update on the Turbo engines is needed. Marketing wise, show the people that the Forester kick a** in rally too. Check Top Gear on Youtube wrx sti vs Forester turbo.
 
Tribeca: Has been redone.
 
Baja; Bring back! is different than eveybody else and put the new diesel engine.
 
Subaru's are like the Japanese version of Volvo's but with a whole lot of wasabi! Like anybody else in this business the marketing people needs to do their homework.

Subaru has done studies regarding adding FWD, and everything I've read about the results points to FWD not adding sales. As I said, it would be a bad marketing move.
 
What Subaru needs to do (better!) in the sunshine states is to point out that AWD is better in the rain and in the dry. They need to show that AWD is not just for the snow belt. So far they haven't done a very good job of selling those points.

Relevant review by Dan Niel. http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/highway1/la-hy-neil31oct31,0,2196383.story?coll=la-news-highway_1
 
To respond to the AWD diehards, Jeep is known for 4WD, 2WD Jeeps are sold in Southern areas and dealers in the North just do not order them, there is no harm to Jeeps reputation from the 2WD Jeeps. The Compass and Patriot are a different story.
 
Subaru can effectively offer 2WD without image dilution. Subaru is already offering 2WD in Europe.

Relevant review by Dan Niel. http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/highway1/la-hy-neil31oct31,0,2196383.story?coll=la-news-highway_1
 
To respond to the AWD diehards, Jeep is known for 4WD, 2WD Jeeps are sold in Southern areas and dealers in the North just do not order them, there is no harm to Jeeps reputation from the 2WD Jeeps. The Compass and Patriot are a different story.
 
Subaru can effectively offer 2WD without image dilution. Subaru is already offering 2WD in Europe.

You know for years Subaru offered FWD with AWD optional in the 1970's--- the early 1990's. So it wouldn't be so antithetical to their precious history.
 
Plus in many parts of the country they have little or no history. Here in Texas you see few.

I read that yesterday.
 
The only Subaru with FWD in Europe is the just released Justy. So the jury is out on how it will do. They also sell a few bottom-feeder FWD models in Japan.

If I want a FWD, econobox that performs like a Civic or a Corolla, I'll just buy a Civic or a Corolla given all the great reviews they always get as cars. If I want something different from what everyone's driving, I'll get an Impreza.
 
BTW, why won't the offer an STI package on the 4 door like they used to? It would probably help it distance itself from the Corolla.

Subaru tried to go mainstream with front wheel drive last decade. It didn't work. However, FWD isn't practical in their new cars anyway, because the boxer engine is longitudinally mounted. That design is far more suited to RWD drive than FWD, and even if they only offered it on base models (keep the performance oriented STI, WRX, GT, XT AWD only), I bet it would sell pretty well in the southern states. No other manufacturer offers a cheap rear wheel drive sedan/ hatchback/ wagon, and just look at all the buzz the new 1 Series is generating. Subaru could expanded their quirkiness factor and become the poor man's BMW. However, thier focus should be on AWD, because that (and the boxer engine) is what thiner brand is based on (and what keeps customers loyal).
  
Here's what I'd like to see from Subaru:
  
1) A cohesive design language. I personally liked the design of the 05-07 Outbacks and Legacys a lot, but the 3 part Impreza grille was also very nice, as rsholland has said.
  
2) Introduce diesel technology while avoiding hybrids. People don't recognize Subaru with high fuel economy and environmental concern like they do Honda and Toyota, and any Subaru hybrid would be too low volume to really make profits. Diesels, meanwhile, don't require nearly as many modifications to be adapted to a chassis and are less complex.
  
3) Spread the transmission technology around (5spd autos and 6sp manuals)
  
4) Import the Legacy STI (this is just a personal wish).
  
I really like Subaru, so hopefully they can get their act back together and remain profitable while doing so, because they are in trouble if they don't succeed at both.

I think the pricing isn't an issue. My boyfriend just got a brand new 2.5i w/ premium package, VDC as a manual. Got it for 16K. I think AWD is necessary in some places and it's just as fair to make it any extra 2K or whatever. Of course, I'm one to talk. I really do not like the fact that you must pay more to get an automatic but I'm really not complaining. :/

I do agree. If Subaru would offer RWD and the boxer engine (one of only a few engine designs that are inherently balanced) they would be the BMW of Japan.
 
I would be interested in driving something like that.

jr1m90
 
A boxer diesel is on the way, first to go on sale next year in Europe, and hopefully here next.
 
http://66.160.188.111/Straightline/3301

A larger subcompact version of the R1 kei car would be nice.

Whatever Subaru does with drivetrain (and even if they stay AWD only, I won't have a problem with that because that's what I'd buy anyway), the diesel engine could be a real boon. I just hope that the new generation of diesels, including Honda's, are more performance oriented than past diesels.
 
Take the last generation VW Jetta diesel: great car, extremely fuel efficient, but were forced into the mid to lower trim levels and couldn't get any of the other performance stuff (17 inch wheels, sport suspension, etc.) with it. From what I've read, these next gen engines should have plenty of power and great fuel economy, but it will be up to the manufacturers to make them available in cars people want to buy. I really don't want to see these great engines languish in the stripped down versions of models, when they could be available across the trim levels to anyone who wants one.
 
Bring on the diesels!

Re. longitudinally mounted engines, and FWD . . . this was the configuration for SAAB for years. SAAB's never had transverse engines until after the GM takeover. However, it does make for a rather complex arrangement, and the engine sat on top of the transaxle, making transmission work extremely expensive.

OPfreak,
The point is, they DO compete with Civic and Corolla. Just not very well. The Impreza is an entry-level car, just a thirsty and expensive one. If it had decent mileage (diesel maybe), I'd pay a little more for the AWD. But I don't want to take two hits - poor mileage and high price. It's not like it has premium materials or anything like VW. And the same goes for the Legacy and Tribeca. I could get an Acura or Lexus for the same money. Fact is, Americans want the most bang for the buck or the most impressive name plate they can afford. Right or wrong, it's Subaru's problem to overcome.

Thirsty? My wife's Forester and son's Outback Sport average in the mid 20s. While not "super" gas mileage, it's not bad. And my WRX? In almost 30,000 miles I've yet to record less than 21 mpg—and I drive it fairly hard. On average I'm right around 23 mpg, give or take. On the highway I can get close to 27 if I keep my speed reasonable. Not too shabby for a performance car...
 
Now if gas mileage were right at the top of my priority list, then I would agree with you; but it's not. Yes, it's important, but not so important that I'm willing to sacrifice the AWD aspect.

Ahightower, the Impreza is NOT an entry-level car. A car with AWD and a 2.5L engine and prices that are almost above $20k is not an entry level car. I'm not sure I'd call even the Mazda 3 an entry level car....I'm not sure anything with a 2.0 or larger fits that bill.
 
I agree with what Karl has said. The styling on the 2008 Impreza is atrocious. I think Subaru need far better styling and an improved/somewhat premium feel.
Mazda did that with the 3: the Protege was already the class leader in terms of sportiness, was stylish and probably had the most powerful powerful engine (compared to other cars in the class between '99 and 2003).....yet, only Mazda fans and enthusiasts bought it and so it had modest sales. They improved the styling, especially on the interior, and increased refinement (something I actually don't like) without sacrificing sportiness much and boom.....the 3 is now a hit! Mazda effectively transformed a highly capable car (Protege) to a highly capable AND highly desirable car (3). I believe Subaru can do the same with their models.
 
I'll expand Karl's second point and say they need a volume seller. Maybe that car could be a real entry-level car. (The Impreza is not an entry level car.) Maybe it could be a more stylish mid-sized car. Maybe an SUV or wagon. Whatever it is, it needs to be a car that would sell in at least decent volumes to keep money flowing in. This car would have to be something that appeals to a lot of people while retaining the traditional Subaru traits.

Subaru is moving in that direction. The new Impreza (and future Subies too) are aimed at bringing in new buyers to the Subaru camp. FHI is keenly aware they need more customers. So far, the new Impreza is off to a good start, as it's been selling at record numbers.

rsholland, I once got about 16 mpg in my 2.5RS. Steady 120+ mph for 40 minutes.

Seems like we need a bit of clarification on how Subaru's AWD system is arranged, being as how there have been several incorrect comments about it.
 
Yes, it is a longitudinal system, but it is not at all suited to RWD only, and is indeed better suited to FWD. The engine is not on top of any of the transmission parts, it is in front of all of them. The front diff sits behind the flywheel/clutch and under the gearbox (even shaing the oil in the MT versions). As they did in the 90's with the FWD Impreza, it is easier to lose the rear half of the AWD transmission than the front half.
 
To my knowledge Audi, Alfa Romeo, Citroen and Renault have all used longitudinal engines with FWD (in the Citroen GS and Alfasud it was even a horizontally opposed flat four like Subaru currently use). FWIW, Porsche use their rear longitudinally mounted horizontally opposed flat sixes with AWD.

ahightower
 
I dont know if they compete... Maybe because the prices overlap.
 
But heres the bottom line. awd will always cost more.. and always get worse gas milage.
 
It would be almost impossible for them not too.
 
First off. Even if the base price was the same... you have to pay for the extra axels and whatever method you want to use to send power to the other 2 wheels. which also adds the cost of a drive shaft.
 
So that makes it impossible to compete on costs. Could subbie come up with a cheap system, maybe. but why?
 
Second. Gas milage. not only do you have extra parts moving. (extra axels. driveshafts. differetinals, etcs). all of which waste power and gas.
 
On top of that, the stuff adds weight
 
Hench worse gas milage.
 
IMHO you could never be staisfied as a customer so why should i bother?
 
if you want awd, you have to pay more for it, and pay for the gas. Sorry life is not fair.
 
if you want a good awd drive machine get a subbie, if you want the lowest cost, with good milage, get something else.

Case in point:
 
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071107/earns_gm.html?.v=6
 
GM sales are rising but at what cost? They are losing money on every car they sell. Good times...

vvk: "rsholland, I once got about 16 mpg in my 2.5RS. Steady 120+ mph for 40 minutes."
LOL
 
A diesel, RWD, Imprezza hatch is a very tempting proposition, even if it is ugly. Perhaps the after market could fix the looks. When is BMW bringing diesels to the US, haven't heard anything on that in a while...

As a proud owner of a 2007 Impreza wagon, I can sincerely say I am hooked on these cars. So far, since March I have racked up 17k flawless miles on a car that cost me $16,500, has a great AWD setup, a gutsy 175hp boxer motor, excellent safety records and still returns 31mpg consitantly (about 28mpg in the colder months). I originally bought it as a cheap winter car while the S2000 sleeps and I am so glad I did. There was absolutely nothing remotely close to it in features, safety or mileage. The next best thing was the Suzuki SX4, but that thing gets terrible mileage and only iffy safety scores.
 
As far as the future goes, I say play the safety card. Subies are some of the safest cars on the road, they should continue to tout that. Also, just recently they have been playing the environmentalist card, something about obtaining a huge chunk of land for a wildlife refuge park near the assembly plant. That kind of commitment goes a long ways for some of us.
 
The only thing I can see that is holding back Subaru is looks and price. They've got fantastic reliability (matching both Honda and Toyota) and their designs are much more risky than those 2, especially Toyo. But with that risk comes a limited audience, not everyone has warmed up to the Alfa cues, or the "bug eye" experiment. Even the Forester, which is a great alternative to an SUV suffered the stigma of catering to the "women in comfortable shoes".
 
With the new Impreza and the Tribeca, I think they went to far. Almost as if they were ashamed with lack of success with their riskier designs and just went back to building Subaru Camrys... So I'd like to see them strike a chord between fresh and original, with that touch of class. Maybe something like Volvo or Acura (not bad company to be in IMO).
 
As far as price goes, well I wouldn't expect a car with a pricepoint lower than the Impreza. Unless of course, they go front drive... but why? That segment is flooded with Corollas, Civics and Mazda3's. Plus, there are some worthy contenders there like the hot little Lancer GTS, the Rabbit and even the Toyota Matrix/Vibe. Throwing a little Subaru with no reputation in there could garner only a few takers and is it really worth abandoning the key attributes that Subaru has been known for?
 
I think if anything, a bolder styling direction is the best approach to building sales. I like the idea of a Ridgeline kind of truck as the next Baja. And a Subaru minivan, AWD standard would probably be successful as well. And after that, I'd like to see a sedan above the Legacy, maybe something like the Hyundai Genesis or Acura RL.
 
Me, I'm going to buy more Subarus in the future no matter what they do. The overall package is tough to beat.

For what it's worth, Subaru has a very high owner loyalty rate, as you and I have shown. Most former Subie owners are repeat buyers, so they must be doing something right.

Bring back the Justy!

i drove the new impreza and i really liked the car, but i didn't buy for 2 reasons. 1. poor gas mileage 2. high price. if i lived where it snowed i would buy one, but i live in sunny CA and don't need the awd.

Good point, Up here in MA and the rest of N.E., Subarus have a huge prescence. Ya, they must be doing fine to have that many takers, and repeat takers (I've talked with plenty of people who have had multiple Subie's).
 
Volvo is another one with a loyal following around here.

Slightly OT: Why is it that most of us in the States call Subarus "Subies," but across the pond, they call them "Scoobys?" Makes me go, "Hmmmmm."

Seems like Subaru caught the SAAB disease - blander designs with the character eliminated. Previous Tribeca was distictive/ugly, new one has nothing that says Subaru to me. Previous Impreza was distinctive/interesting/spunky, new one could be a Kia/Hundai/whatever. Too bad.

One northwestern Subie dealer I visited claimed the Impreza will be getting a transmission change in the early part of 2008 (from 4 speed auto to a 5 speed auto). Will be interesting to see if they actually do this.

If i could wake up as a subaru executive
1, use one of the kei cars to outsell the smart and an entry car ( this one 4 wheel drive) to fight the yaris/fit/accent ( 4wd so it dosen't overlap the yaris)
2 I would take subaru to something between Mazda and Acura
because keepenig a subaru raw will not get to luxury
yet torque vectoring sounds like something Subaru could perfect to keep it's image
3, bring an SVX replacement and place it between the legacy and the impreza, (subie can't go near fullsize,) have a coupe to bring more fans in the showroom could be a good idea
4 to the design team, make a corporate design that uses a low hood
since they are the only ones with boxer engines, it would be seen from outside lets the salesman insist on the advantages of a boxer engine and would probably enhance the aerodynamic and would not be copied by other companies
5

Subaru needs a more fuel efficient model.That means they need some 2 wheel drive models. A deisiel Impreza could be a good thing.I

Bring the boxer diesel engine to the states quickly.
  
Make stability control standard across the product line, not an option only on higher trim levels. When other manufacturers are making stability control standard across their product lines, it is inexcusable for Subaru not to.
  
Bring back 2-wheel drive, even if most of the 2wd vehicles go to warmer climate states, Subaru is losing quite a bit of sales from people who have no need for all wheel drive. They can still differentiate themselves from other companies by emphasizing that all wheel drive is available on all their models.
   
The new Forester has to be a winner. I liked the size and feel of the current forester, but there are too many things that prevent me from purchasing it - lack of side curtain airbags, stability control only on XT models, too short for the class wheelbase, clearly dated ergonomics. Right now, the forester is competing solely on price incentives as a cheaper 4 wheel drive alternative - not a place Subaru wants to be.
  
The new forester's wheelbase is going to be increased since it is based on the new Impreza, and hopefully, they will create a new, distinctive (not weird) yet upscale look that they can then transfer across the product line. Things will go badly if they mimic the new Impreza's look.

Why not make a few models with optional 2WD? Basically offer a AWD delete option.
Subaru, AWD standard, Front (or possibly rear) wheel drive optional depending on model. A front wheel drive Impreza and a rear wheel drive Legacy GT would both do well enough to justify the engineering cost.

Subaru was not able to reverse their year long sales struggle.
 
2007 end of year sales numbers compared to 2006.
Subaru –7.0% at 187,208 (2006: 200,703)
 
2008 is expected to be a tough year for everyone, Subaru must not make mistakes with their new models.
 
IMO Subaru has already stumbled with the new Impreza, the changes to the Legacy and Outback, (no Legacy Wagon?) and the new Forester is too generic in it's styling and lacks sufficient mechanical improvements.