Edmunds CarPool

Karl,
 
It looks nice. (subjective, I know). I am amazed air conditioning is not standard, however. I do not see this vehicle commanding $20K (how long can Saturn hold to its MSRP policy?) when a Mazda3 or Civic EX/SI is around the same price. It appears to be "almost" as good as its competitors, but no cheaper, so why would you buy it? Maybe the tuners can do something with it.
 
Again, another nice effort from GM, but not quite there, IMHO.
 
Good riddance to the ION. After driving one, I was convinced GM was finished. I think they still go bankrupt, but not from building terrible cars such as the ION.

For a little over 20K I'd like to have seen them put in a peppier engine on the XR 3 door "sporty" model. That's nearing Si territory. I'm not saying it has to liquify my insides, but if I were buying the "sporty" XR model I'd expect a little more gusto. Maybe they will address that later in the life of this model. If they did make the XR version with a little more power, while keeping the price where it is, this sucker would be on my list for a first look without a doubt. If that shifter and clutch work well, then I'd be very happy owning one of these for my next car. I think it looks fantastic.
 
I'm just so pleased with GM these days. I'm really excited. Everytime I see a new CTS on the road I get excited. My wife is so sick of hearing me go, "Whoa, look! A new CTS!"
 
Don't these hit showrooms in early January? I'll have to go check one out. I've been intrigued by this car for quite some time now.

Air conditioning is one of those features I just thought every single car ever has. Thats a little baffling to me. I mean maybe it's more common in Europe to leave that out, I don't know.
 
It's a nice looking car. I hope we eventually get the glass canopy version over here, and I hope Saturn gives it the Red Line treatment, and doesn't skimp on that. They could have a real player here if they're smart with the performance variant. It's been awhile since there's been a domestic thats a real player in the sport compact market.

The base Civic doesn't have A/C either. They don't even carry any DX models in my area (North Texas), and why would they? They use it to advertise a low base price and awesome leases, and then you go to the dealer and they all start around $18K plus the ridiculous $500 fabric and paint protection treatment. This Astra has some cool features like rainsense wipers and heated mirrors that are not offered on many small cars. Leather is a stand alone option for $750, and heated cloth seats are only $250. Much more buyer friendly than the take-it-or-leave-it Honda pricing scheme.
I still think the Mazda3 is the best bang for the buck (although I might be a little biased by my recent purchase...), but I regretted needing a car right now and not being able to wait for the Astra to come out in January for me to compare. At any rate, it looks like the 3-door would have been more expensive anyway (I was trying to keep it around $16K). But it's not overpriced, it's right in line with the top Japanese compacts.

"Honda has nothing to fear from this 1.8-liter, 138 horsepower engine in terms of performance, but it gets the Aura coupe up to freeway speeds without feeling strained."
 
First of all the 138hp engine is barely weaker than the Civic's engine so I dont see why a big deal is being made about the base powerplant. I wish other engines were available but the Euro powerplant cant meet US emissions. Also, that should say "Astra Coupe".
 
As for the icon, German cars in the US always do this. Why is it a bid deal on this car? Obviously when a car is sold in multiple markets they dont want to change the language on the controls for every market. MB and BMW have been doing this for ages which is why you wont see a ton of english in those cars.
 
This isnt going to be a high volume car so naturally its not going to turn Saturn into a high volume brand overnight. They are only going to bring over 40k of these cars. The Ion outsold that number easily.
 
The car isnt cheap but the list of equipment on this car that is NOT on the civic is extensive. You just cant say "why would anyone pay $18k for this when the civic is available?" without talking about equipment. I dont think the civic has stability, projector beams, 17" wheels (other than Si), 18" wheels, rainsense wipers, heated seats, etc.
 
I dont know if its still true but the 3 and the Altima didnt have AC standard. I dont understand it, but the Astra isnt alone in this regard.

I THINK the Civic lacks the following features that the Astra has available: standard 4 whl discs w/ABS, trip computer, dual panel roof, driver info center, active head restraints and fog lights. This in addition to what was mentioned earlier.

You wasted so much time on what you think are confusing controls that you neglected to mention the Astra's extremely high level of standard equipment, or the high level of quality materials and the class leading fit and finish. the list goes on and on.
 
You failed to mentionThe Astra's solid construction and the precise steering, handling, cornering power and smooth, well controlled ride. I just drove the car, [an xr 3 door, 5 speed] last week and I was suprised and impressed. This Astra, even without optional engines, is an enthusiasts delight. You are obviously not a person who likes to drive.

Yeah, ahightower and 1487 are right: most compact cars do not come with A/C as standard! In fact, apart from the Elantra and perhaps some Kias, I don't know any compact non-luxury car that has AC standard. And I think the Astra's price is competitive.

AC is not needed so much in Europe because of climate (for the most part, further north) -- I don't think any of my parents' cars growing up had it (Disclosure: I am British). However, it *is* needed just about everywhere in the US, for humidity reasons if not heat. They should have made in standard and adjusted the base price.
 
With the possible exception of the thermometer to denote the temp setting (as opposed to, say, blue and red dots), I think all the icons are pretty logical. After all, most of us are used to the concept of three dials in some order for temp, fan speed and direction, and if the other two are obvious, then by process of elimination...
 
Not really in the market for a compact car at the moment, but I would definitely try an Astra out if it's one of my choices the next time I'm at the rental counter...

I just went over to Edmunds and compared the Civic EX to the Astra XR Coupe and I have to say the Astra is very nicely equiped. It really puts the civic to shame on paper. I think there are only a couple of areas where the civic is superior. 1) The Civic is available with a 5spd auto as an option, while the Astra only offers a 4spd as an option. 2) The civic has a four wheel independent suspension, while the Astra only has a front independent suspension.
 
Also the Astra weighs about 135 pounds more than the Civic. All things considered though, I think Saturn can hold their head up high on this one.

drwales,
 
I dont think you are going to see many of these at the rental counter. with the limited number Saturn is bringing over they should have no problem selling this car.

I'm not so much a fan of the Astra's looks, a little too Fisher-Price for me but that being said, the new Civic is hideous too IMO.
 
greenhornets:
 
I think calling Karl "a person who doesn't like to drive" is a pretty hilarious comment, lol.

I think this car is competitive, and I really like the interior and the price doesn't seem bad. However...
-I personally don't like the hatch/coupe style, it looks great until you get to the b pillar
-It would be great with 20-30 more horses and a little more torque
-When I check out the opel website, the first think I see is the gorgeous twin top, and it makes me cry a little inside:(

Air conditioning is standard on the Mazda 3, and while not on the base Civic and Altima now, it was standard on the previous generation of both. In fact as of two years ago the only vehicles in the U.S. on which AC was not standard were the (previous generation) Kio Rio, Dodge Caliber, and Ford Ranger. I made up a nice little chart on car standard features for a class project, and I must say that it really surprises me that Honda and Nissan have backslid on this feature.
 
As for the hieroglyphics on the Astra, this is not "no big deal," as someone said, but rather a complete deal killer on this bottom end of car. But seeing as how many Ions and S series before them were baught by parents for teenagers, well, the parents won't care.

tech,
 
at these prices I dont see this car being primarily purchased by parents for their children. In fact, I dont see this car having much appeal to Ion owners. There seems to be a buzz about this model in spite of the lack of power and I think the turn rate will be high. This car has nothing in common with the Ion other than its a compact.

"You failed to mentionThe Astra's solid construction and the precise steering, handling, cornering power and smooth, well controlled ride."
 
Maybe you should read the title of this post again...or the following lines:
 
"Finally, this car actually stopped me in my tracks as I walked away while shutting the driver's door. Based on "door thunk" alone the Astra could pass for an S-Class Mercedes."
 
"Interior quality rivals the Volkswagen Golf, as do handling dynamics and overall refinement."

It needs a better rear suspension. Would prefer a Coupe body rather than a Hatchback. At that price it needs more power. The Civic Si can be had for around the same price.
 
I like the look of the front, and for a hatchback it is the best looking one. This thing looks better than the dumpy looking GTI, now if they can only get an engine and suspension to compete with the GTI.

Guys, I think the car's power is fine. The compact class is all about providing adequate power and great fuel economy....that's what most buyers in this segment want. Comparing the power output to most of the competition, 138 hp is good enough.
 
Civic: 140 hp.
Soon-to-be-released Corolla: 128 hp.
Elantra: 138 hp
Mazda 3 2.0: 148 hp
 
Most of these other cars have high performance engines as options, but those are for relatively low-volume top-of-the range models only. 138 hp is great for this car.
 
Besides, I think it's only a matter of time before Saturn release a high performance version.

what are the odds of...
 
a red line in 2009? i would say high

Agreed that the base engine is fine for most applications, but given maniac freeway drivers in S. Calif (who are "training" Oregon drivers to be likewise - but we ain't there yet ;-) ), the option for a Direct Injection, possibly turbo Ecotec sounds useful.
Then again, given most turbos offer the "joy" of lag and then a 2-step acceleration experience, perhaps Direct injection and other refinements would make more sense..

I never liked Opels, but compared with tinny Toyotas and Hondas they are solid autobahn ready cars. I would expect Astra to be more expensive than Civic. And this is the best opportunity to buy Astra because next iteration GM will most likely get rid of German pedigree in US version. If I am not mistaken VW Golf also does not have independent suspension.

The problem with making AC standard is not every region wants it.
 
I realize some people think their world represents everyone but it's not true. I have AC on my car but I doubt I've used it more then twice in the past year. I certainly would not pay for it.
 
Leave on the option list so that people who live in hot climates can pay for it and those of us who don't can avoid wasting the money.
 
As for the Astra, I think it looks great. The 1st Saturn product that I might consider. Strange controls are no problem, I can read owners manuals and I like things that are different form the norm.

You did mention the quality compared to the S-Class and a few other things, but I think what greenhornets means is that you could have elaborated a bit more? Just saying.

"I THINK the Civic lacks the following features that the Astra has available: standard 4 whl discs w/ABS, trip computer, dual panel roof, driver info center, active head restraints and fog lights. This in addition to what was mentioned earlier".
  
1487, the Civic has front disc/rear drums with ABS/EBD standard on the DX/LX models and the EX/EX-L/Si models have 4 wheel discs with the aformentioned ABS/EBD. Active head restraints are also standard accross the Civic line. TPMS is also standard. VSA/Traction control is standard on the Si. The ACE safety system is also part of the package. A/C isnt standard on the base DX Civics or the base XE Astra 5 door.
  
I found it odd that Saturn DOESNT offer the coupe in base XE trim as they offer the 5 door in that trim. The Civic coupe covers a larger price spread as you can get a DX, LX, EX, EX-L, or Si. The Civic sedan goes even further with the GX and Hybrid models. This is one area where the Civic just kills the segment as it offers various models and trim levels.
  
I didnt see anything regarding the dual panel roof (XR coupe) on Saturns website. It seems to be only available on the 5 door. The sunroof is standard on all coupe/sedan EX, EX-L, and Si models. The Honda 350W stereo (nice system BTW) is standard on EX, EX-L, Si coupe and standard on the SI sedan. For some reason its not available on EX,EX-L sedan, thats stupid. Foglights are an accessory. If you want a leather trimmed interior (seats/door panels/arm rest), and heated seats/mirrors just opt for the Civic EX-L.
  
I like the Saturns styling as its modern, crisp and fresh and in XR trim comes off as being a pocket rocket compared to the conservative Civic EX. Regarding interior styling......Im not a huge fan of either although Id probably lean towards the Civics design as its outside the box and I like the LED instrumentation. Overall the Astra seems to be very competitive and MUCH better than the Ion it replaces. FINALLY some refinement and high quality in a entry level domestic(?) small car!

Until the Astra has a sedan it will never outsell its competition. Further, it will languish in obscurity here. Bring a sedan, watch the sales go up.

Hondaacura4, the Honda 350W stereo is very nice! Interestingly, the Accord EX-L has a mere 270W as premium sound! It doesn't sound as good as the 350W and has disappointing bass!......Hip-hop and reggae lovers are out of luck! Any insight into why the Accord has a weak stereo? (You always soom to have great insight into Honda's products.......)

As I had said regarding the AURA, I just CAN'T praise Saturn for any of these new products because, frankly, it's not theirs. It's not even badge engineering when all they did is change the badge alone. At LEAST Sunfire and Cavaliers had different body looks and even interior bits like the vents. These ones are almost clones. It bothers me because if Saturn is supposed to be different and the one to bring unique models with European flair, then it should at least invent them itself. I realize GM decided that, but still, to dump it on Saturn and make them take all this praise in the media when it's Opel's hard work is just ridiculous.
 
I'll call it Opel Astra thank you very much.
 
So when's the Vectra coming....?

"Hondacura4, the Honda 350W stereo is very nice! Interestingly, the Accord EX-L has a mere 270W as premium sound! It doesn't sound as good as the 350W and has disappointing bass!......Hip-hop and reggae lovers are out of luck! Any insight into why the Accord has a weak stereo? (You always soom to have great insight into Honda's products.......)"
  
Blackadder, thanks for the recognition..=). Ever since my first Honda (1989 Accord LXi sedan) Ive been a huge and loyal Honda enthusiast. Not just because they make great innovative products and think outside the box but because of their vast, successful motorsports history and how Soichiro Honda really challenged himself at such a young age. For someone who didnt even graduate from highschool he certainly made his mark in the automotive industry. Below is a link to a brief summary about Soichiro Honda. Its short but pretty interesting.
  
http://www.autohistory.org/feature_7.html
  
Honda has always been a bit too conservative in certain areas. The "premium" stereo is just another area where they could be more aggressive in some vehicles. Since the Civic EX/ Si coupe/Si sedan typically attract a younger consumer I think Honda choose to give a more aggressive low end response while still offering better than average mids and highs. Its a great system, the same could be said for the Acura TSX 360W system.
  
Regarding the Accords system. You really cant just go by pure output alone as there are systems with low watt output that offer great sound quality. Unfortunately the segment the Accord competes in typically attracts a more conservative/older consumer, who probably doesnt listen to the same type of music as an Si owner. On that note I think they focus more on overall sound quality instead of the aggressive low range like the Si's system. I havent actually heard the 2008 Accords system as Im basing this on past Accord systems.
 
The same could be said for the Bose (Im not a fan of Bose) system in my 2003 Acura CL-S 6MT. Its clean but had NO bass at all. I added a step down kit because I wanted to keep the OEM head unit and OEM speakers. The kit let me add a 10" JL Audio enclosed subwoofer and an amp to the stock system. It bascially gave the system the low frequency bass it lacked while retaining the mids and highs. It actually turned out better than I expected. I listen to all types of music but enjoy some new/old school R&B, Mary J Blige and Al Greene are examples. I also enjoy some alternative (Linkin Park) and rock (Nickelback).
  
Contrary to the Accord, a car like the Toyota Avalon Limited with the available JBL Synthesis 360W system caters to an even older consumer than the Accord yet that system is top notch. You get the best of both worlds as it can deliver strong bass with virtually NO distortion, super clean mids/highs and great imaging. My step mother has a 06 Avalon Limited and the JBL system nearly blew me away the first time I heard it. The "premium" stereo in the Accord should be at least comparable to the Toyota JBL Synthesis system!

vic_pe
 
sorry you feel that way. but until we have the opel name in the usa. the its a saturn here in the states.
 
its not like there will be an opel astra, and a saturn astra state side

Regarding Saturn and Opel, I don't mind if Saurns are rebadged Opels as long as they're good quality cars. In fact, I kinda like it that way, as I can then talk of the same cars with my friends overseas. But I worry Saturn's engineers are gonna be unemployed soon as they wouldn't have any real engineering to do!
 
Thanks, hondacura, once again for the insight. I have listend to the '08 Accord's premium stereo and it sounds GREAT as long as the music is rather light on bass. Reggae and hip-hop get a lot of bass distorion at higher volumes.
I've also listened to the Toyota JBL system. A friend of mine has it in his Camry hybrid. For the Camry, it's 440W output. That system rocks! WOW!
 
The notion that young people prefer the Civic over the Accord is not quite true. Several of my friends in their lower or mid 20s own Accords. One friend of mine who recently graudated and is 24 bought an Accord! My Camry friend is also young (early 30s). I also know for a fact that many parents buy Accords and Camrys for their late-teen and early-20s kids. So Honda should start upping the ante on the stereos and other features that appeal to young people.
 
I only started respecting Honda when I got to the US five years ago. Back in Africa, Hondas are still admired/respected but they don't have the same clout as Toyotas and Nissans. Before I got here I considered Honda a great motorbyke company that made very good cars on a limited basis. I was surprised (but then again it's not surprising) at Honda's huge popularity here!

"Regarding Saturn and Opel, I don't mind if Saturns are rebadged Opels as long as they're good quality cars. "
 
Blackadder, I agree and disagree. I do agree on the quality part but disagree with badge engineering. When Saturn was conceived Saturn had a certain odd characteristic that sparked the interest of certain consumers. Now that the cars are Opels I think that certain Saturn characteristic is gone. Although a lot of Saturn customers probably wont care, I really wish Saturn could have kept its own identity and its core values while delivering a solid product. Im not a big fan of badge engineering by anyone including Honda.
 
"The notion that young people prefer the Civic over the Accord is not quite true."
 
I didnt mean that was entirely true as I had a 89 Accord LXi sedan at 16 years of age. I will say that the majority of Accord buyers are older than the majority of Civic Si or Civic buyers in general. Honda could probably tell you the same thing.

For someone with the honda acura names in his name, one is easily tricked into thinking they're talking to a fanboy with no outside scope. Luckily you're actually more open minded than would be expected, even amongst the crowd here.
 
I'll never forget the blatant ripoff that the EL Acuras were and how the public is really being played with when considering just how exact the whole product looked to a Civic. It's really a pain to see not only that the car was not good looking, but its interior was the same as the Civic plus some upscale materials. Back then I'd have actually wished Acura'd gone out of business for making such insulting product (mind you they're not the only ones who did that, but that product line was especially standing out). Thankfully I wasn't an automotive enthusiast back then haha.
 
Glad you see what I mean by the badge engineering and Saturn's identity though. Even the bottom end Saturns with the J-Body in the 90s were vastly more different than their siblings the Cavalier and Sunfire, interior AND exterior.
And yeah blackadder, it's gonna be a sad day for them Saturn engineers and designers when their job can be done by secretaries who know how to cut and paste logo images. Talk about an easy job...

"I'll never forget the blatant ripoff that the EL Acuras were and how the public is really being played with when considering just how exact the whole product looked to a Civic."
  
My thoughts exactly. My wife is Japanese/French Canadian so we are in the Toronto/Mississaugua area about 3 to 4 times a year and I see a plethora of "Acura" EL's and CSX's. Im not sure why Honda produced this car in the first place as its just a Civic EX-L with slightly different facias and a few more interior appointments. I do like the car BTW but it should be sold as a higher end Honda Civic as it goes against the whole new direction for Acura as they want and need to be further seperated from the Honda.
  
"For someone with the honda acura names in his name, one is easily tricked into thinking they're talking to a fanboy with no outside scope. Luckily you're actually more open minded than would be expected, even amongst the crowd here."
  
Fortunately, not all "Honda enthusiasts" are like you stated and I dont think Honda is perfect nor Gods gift. Honda has done some things that I dont like at all. They produced some vehicles that made me scratch my head (Del Sol as a CRX successor). They refuse to give the Acura brand the proper style, performance, prestige, upscale dealer network, and RWD platforms that the brand certainly needs and deserves. The NSX successor is supposedly a big soft FR SH-AWD GT (puke). Honda refuses to give me that $35K RWD big VTEC V6 350Z fighter that I dream about night after night. The VCM2 system (08 Honda Accord) is certainly what I DIDNT expect from Honda as it doesnt showcase their full potential.
  
I do get frustrated from time to time with Honda... but all of that goes away when I jump in our 2002 S2000, drop the top and find a nice curvy country road to molest and fully explore my limits. There is no feeling like that "VTEC kick" as if the engine gets seriously pissed, hearing that refined engine note harden as you approach that glorious 9000 RPM redline, that snickety snick sound of the precise shifter, and feeling the finesse of the suspension components doing work naturally without a computer telling the drivetrain which wheel needs power. I dont want no stinkin' computer telling the car what to do, thats my job! A pure, raw, refined driving experience is what I crave and no other car can give me that feeling for the price of an S2000! When I have doubt in Honda I do what I just typed and I realize why I prefer Honda vehicles, then I do it again!
  
So yes, Im a "Honda fanboy" to an extent but I do recognize a good solid competitive product when I see one, Honda or not. GM has assured me of late that they can produce some interesting stylish solid products (Tahoe/Malibu/CTS) but they have yet to tell me that they can do it consistently.

I used to get these as rental cars all the time when I was living and working in the UK. The configuration that I had was very similar to what we are going to get there for engine and trim options. It was a very solid car and drove very well. Hopefully GM and Saturn doesn't screw this one up, they could have a winner here.
 
While this may not be a problem as most of the Astra's will be Automatics, I always felt that the Gear Box could be better suited with a 6 speed over the 5 Speed. When I used to take the Astra out on the Motorways, I felt the engine was a bit overworked in 5th and could use another gear.

"Until the Astra has a sedan it will never outsell its competition. Further, it will languish in obscurity here. Bring a sedan, watch the sales go up."
 
I repeat, they will only be importing about 40k. This car wont outsell anything with or without a sedan. I think production will increase when the car is redesigned in 2 years or so. This is a stop gap product.
 
"As I had said regarding the AURA, I just CAN'T praise Saturn for any of these new products because, frankly, it's not theirs. It's not even badge engineering when all they did is change the badge alone."
 
get your facts straight. the Aura is not a simple rebadge of the Vectra. The interior and engines are totally different. ON top of that the Vectra has far more options and a higher price. There is no Opel Outlook. The Sky is a US design that is exported and sold as a VAuxhall. The Vue and Antera are close to rebadges of one another but I don't think they share an interior. The Astra is the only true Saturn rebadge of an Opel where only the insignia was changed.
 
The Astra is unlikely to get new engines with this generation because the more powerful US ecotecs are not made in Europe and thus it would be costly to get them installed in the Belgium built Astra. I wouldn't expect a Redline anytime soon. The next generation of this car will likely have more body styles and better engines and a US-only interior.

Actually 1487, it is pretty much a rebadge, the car looks inside and out like the Vauxhall and Opel models in the UK and Europe. The only differences that I can see so far are the seats look a bit different and some exterior changes required by the US. For the most part it is a rebadge.

"As I had said regarding the AURA, I just CAN'T praise Saturn for any of these new products because, frankly, it's not theirs. It's not even badge engineering when all they did is change the badge alone."
 
Why would a company want to pay for R & D to develop a euro flair car when they already have it. If you praise saturn or not, if they are good products that the umbrella company owns, what does it matter?

"Actually 1487, it is pretty much a rebadge, the car looks inside and out like the Vauxhall and Opel models in the UK and Europe. The only differences that I can see so far are the seats look a bit different and some exterior changes required by the US. For the most part it is a rebadge."
 
are you talking about the Astra? I already said thats a rebdage. The Aura is not, the interior is totally different, wheels are different and rear is somewhat different. I don't know if the interior of the Vue is the same in Europe but I suspect it is not. The Vauxhall version of the Sky is a rebadge of an American design, not vice versa. Outlook is an American only product.

1487,
Let's ignore for a moment the upscale Opel's different material use and focus on the overall look.
 
The VUE is almost a rebadge as well:
http://www.opel.de/shop/cars/antara/gallery/photo/content.act?pic=4
http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/2008_saturn_vue_official_6.jpg
 
I'll grant you partial marks for the AURA's interior and exterior (the behind specifically), but it is still based on the Opel's design and direction.
 
I'm still looking at the SKY's design though because it seems it came from a Vauxhall concept. I was stunned to see the SKY as the Opel GT but now I know it's shared by Saturn's designer who now works for Mazda. Still, that designer made the SKY based on the concept for another brand. Talk about confusing though.
 
Clace, the point has to do with the credit a company gets for something it did not deserve. It's great we get high quality and value products, that's not the point, as I know Opels won't be sold here, but I am just saying that this NACOTY award is a sad indicator of how the auto industry doesn't look at the whole picture before giving credit.

"It's great we get high quality and value products, that's not the point, as I know Opels won't be sold here, but I am just saying that this NACOTY award is a sad indicator of how the auto industry doesn't look at the whole picture before giving credit."
 
not sure how the Opel connection makes the Aura a poor choice for NACTY. I would think that makes it a solid choice for the award.

While most people think of the Cobalt SS setting the standards in the small car segment, this new Astra may be the next best thing.
 
Anyone can see it clearly. It's got the style, the stance, the big wheels and Saturn reliability to make it untouchable by any competitor 10 thousand dollars more expensive.