2008 Mini Clubman: Bigger and Better...a little
I spent about three-hundred miles in a new 2008 Mini Clubman yesterday. The good news is that it's bigger and better than the regular Mini Cooper. The bad news? It's only a little bigger and better. That's okay from the "better" standpoint, as the Mini was already quite good in most areas, so it really doesn't need to be much better. But in terms of "bigger" I would have liked to see it grow in a more meaningful way.
Oh, those three inches in the wheelbase provide additional rear legroom. But that's sort of like saying the Toyota Prius reduces our dependence on foreign oil. Technically it does...but if you think it's making a difference that actually matters in the larger picture you're kidding yourself. I'm sure in some circumstances three inches make for quite a change, but rear-seat functionality in the Mini Clubman isn't one of them.
Basically, with my old 2002 Mini Cooper it was impossible for my family of four to fit inside unless the wife drove. With her driving the driver's seat was far enough forward to give my five-year-old daughter legroom behind her. I could sit in the passenger seat and move it forward enough to give my seven-year-old son legroom, even though it was a little tight for my legs. This would be the same situation in the Clubman -- especially since my kids are now two years older. I played around with the driver's seat and found a position that worked for me and provided almost adequate rear legroom...for my seven-year-old daughter, but it was still useless for adults.
What does this mean for potential buyers? Well, if the the standard Mini Cooper is just slightly too small for you, the Clubman may be perfect. The go-kart handling hasn't suffered at all from the larger size. The rear door design not only looks cool but is highly functional and gives the car additional cargo space. The rest of the car's build quality is up to Mini standards, meaning it's still the cheapest BMW you can buy (BTW, the Clubman, whether in standard or "S" trim, is about $2,000 more than the equivalent Cooper model, and all Clubman's come with Dynamic Stability Control as standard equipment).
However, if you love the Mini but need substantially more rear-seat space, this one won't help. I don't think Mini ever intended it to be substantially larger than a Cooper, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. But I was really hoping this would be a fully functional small car with no qualifiers, ala VW Golf.
Bottom line: If you're looking for the perfect meld of Mini attitude and family transportation, keep looking (or just wait for the upcoming Mini crossover that's due in a couple years).
On today's menu in Monterey: Mmmm...M3
When people make comments about the size of these cars and how there is no room. What would really help is knowing how tall someone is to compare it with. My wife and I are fairly short I'm 5'7" and she is 4'11". How tall a person is is a definate factor with a small car like the Mini. If you are 6'2" it's going to make a huge difference. How tall are you Karl? From the pic it looks like you are over 6'.
I'm 6'2", and I had an 03 Cooper for 3 years...I fit just fine. For the prototypical family of 3 (Big husband, smaller wife, child) it works just fine. For a family of 4, it's iffy, especially if you're dealing with an infant.
Anyway, Karl....get to the 1-series already!!!
I disagree. A big family isn't going to crossshop a Mini anyway. The ride is harsh, it's still a coupe (for all intensive purposes), and gas mileage will be poor when fully loaded.
It's the perfect utility vehicle for the college student, commuter, and grandma & grandpa.
tiff_c: I think you make a good point. If karl wouldn't mind disclosing his height we can actually understand and relate to his comments on measurements.
I for one dislike the rear design. The aluminum trim (is it real?) looks weird, and I'd much rather have a swing-up hatch, or even swing to the side, than the "barn door" style impeding visibility in your rear view mirror. I guess you get used to it, but what's the point? Plus you lose the rear windshield wiper, which I really like, although it seems I rarely see other people using theirs.
Not sure what to think of the size. It's kinda like the last generation Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. It was still a two-door, but the wheelbase stretch added some rear passenger and storage space. Obviously "the people" wanted even more, so they made it a four-door. Personally I find the 4-door a little awkward looking, but as a parent I admit it would be a cool vehicle to own (if I had a very short commute), much more family friendly than the old Unlimited. My guess is that most people buying the Mini Clubman will use the extra space for cargo, not people, and still won't use the rear seat very much if at all. Like the old Wrangler Unlimited it's still not a "family car. No two-door would be convenient on a daily basis, no matter how big it was once you got back there. But maybe it's just big enough for some folks who really want a Mini to convince their spouse that it would be okay for picking up the kids once in a while.
We've got a Cooper S - 07 - and we often use it when we take my 5 year old niece places (she finds it more entertaining than the Audi). She's exceptionally tall for her age - top 95% percentile - and she fits fine behind me or my wife with room to spare. Then again, my wife and I are smaller people (five-seven, five -three). My wife actually believes we can fit a rear-facing car seat in the Cooper (she also thinks the 1 series would be fine). I don't share her optimism but I do know from personal experience with a Cooper that I can easily transport 2 or 3 other female adults in my car for short drives.
The Clubman would probably make fitting a rear-facing seat possible - we spent about 20 minutes fiddling witha Clubman at the car show. If I'm forced to upsize, I'd rather ditch the FWD and get a car with the right wheels turning. Those back ambulance doors are an abomination for sight and the lack of a 4th door just doesn't make sense to me.
My Cooper S gets 30 MPG driven really hard every day. No AC of course as AC murders the mileage on a 4 cylinder.
Making the Mini much bigger will defeat the purpose. It was never designed to be a minivan, just a really fun compact car.
I makes a wonderful car for singles and a great 2nd car for families.
You can't make it rear drive. It would make the interior smaller and besides, real Minis were alway front drivers. That's one of the things that made them great.
Please don't let this great little car be spoiled by the never ending bigger is better, I need more, more, more mentaility.
I'm exactly 6' tall.
"Plus you lose the rear windshield wiper, which I really like, although it seems I rarely see other people using theirs. "
No you don't. The Mini has two small ones.
"I don't share her optimism but I do know from personal experience with a Cooper that I can easily transport 2 or 3 other female adults in my car for short drives."
Really BDC? Do you care to share more about this "personal experience"?
Couldn't resist.
"No you don't. The Mini has two small ones."
That's a little better. Still hate the barn doors though.
The Mini is an awesome car but only for two people. That was one reason I didn't buy one. But for driving from work to home and do some errands is enough.
Thank you Karl ... you are a good sport!
blueguydotcom - With my 2007 Camry, I find the A/C makes little difference in the highway gas mileage. The Camry has the 2.4L Inline 4, and it gets around 34MPG highway if the A/C is on or off. Using the A/C certainly doesn't kill the gas mileage.
Question - does the Cooper Clubman seat four or five? I actually considered a regular Cooper when I was shopping late last year and ruled it out due to having three kids. I'll only have the kids in my car on very rare occasions, and could live with just two doors, but I wanted that fifth seatbelt just in case.
colloquor,
Never had a 4 cylinder get decent mileage if I run the AC and drive it as I always do: hard. I imagine with AC and driving like most Camry drivers I wouldn't hurt my mileage; strangely, I can't see buying a Cooper and shifting at 2500 rpm or even worse having an automatic.
Only four seats (and seatbelts) in the Mini Clubman.
buying a mini was never about practicality or usefulness. It's another fashion statement...the same reason why women wear high heels until their heels bleed and guys buy BMWs they can't afford. Interestingly, thetruthaboutcars.com has a great article on why BMW is likely heading for a big fall - it's a company with products that offer far less in value and packaging for the price but relies on its image as the symbol of "I've made it." That won't do so well in a recession!
"buying a mini was never about practicality or usefulness. It's another fashion statement"
I agree that's how it started but it became a huge hit because it's an amazing car to drive.
If it were just a statement, it would have come and gone by now.
How BMW does in the next few years depends on how much they depend on the US market. Hopefully sales in the rest of the world will support them until the US recovers.
Question for anyone who has played with the Clubman's barn doors: They have a struts that push them open when they are unlatched, but do those struts resist you when you try to pull the door open? I keep having this image of a screen door with a piston: The piston will close the door on its own, but if you try to close it too quickly, it will resist. Is this the case with the Clubman's doors?
estreka:
I'm normally not a grammar nazi, but it's "for all intents and purposes", not "for all intensive purposes".
Karl:
How is the rear visibility? I've heard the wide seam between the two doors makes it really tough to see out the back.
the seam cuts right down the center of the rearview mirror...so yes, that is a valid complaint. It wasn't usually a big deal, but on the highway with a car back behind you a ways, you completely lose the car behind the seam. Not a tragedy, but if you like keeping tabs on what's coming up behind you (now why would anyone care about that...) you can't see them in the Clubman until they get pretty close.
As someone ages, typically one of the first things that goes is the rear end. Same thing can be said with this version of the Mini. Is has a major case of the uggs. Dear BMW....don't mess with success.
sabastian,
The struts do make it slightly more difficult to close the rear. But when you hands are full, and you need to open the doors, a simple push of a button and they open. Brilliant design.
sddoc07,
The Mini is not simply a fashion statement. It is a truly fantastic car to drive in the twisties. I challenge you to find a car with a greater fun factor for the price.
joberg,
What about when you try to pull the door open?
Joberg - That's easy. A Miata.
"That's easy. A Miata"
I wouldn't say the Miata has a greater fun factor then the Mini. I have a lot more time behind the wheel of Miatas then Minis but from my experience I would call it a dead heat broken only by personal preference. (or the need for a back seat).
Both are such wonderful little cars that anyone that dislikes then is just a meaner.
Miatas are much more fun to drive. By far. But they give up tons to achieve that...namely utility. I can make costco runs with my Cooper. We can and have transported people (and kids) many times with the Cooper.
But that said, a miata - my family has owned several - even an NA stripped - is far more fun than a Cooper.
Karl:
Thanks for answering my question. :) It's always nice to hear a second opinion.
Blueguy, which is more fun to drive: the RX-8 or the Mini? Both are practical and uniquely styled....although the RX's horrific fuel economy won't do it any favours!
How easy is it to tune an RX-8?
Karl,
It's nice that they went a bit XL on the size. What is your opinion of those silver (or black) rear corners. I like the silver as a bold style element but don't like how there's so many pieces back there (not very clean looking).
It's looking quite busy w/ split barn doors, suicide wipers, chrome handles (and body detents), roof spoiler, pillars, taillight corners w/ 4 lights, bumper w/ seperate pieces, chrome lic plate bumps... kinda like a Manhattan studio kitchen- lots going on.
Finally, what are the crash ratings on it? Is it actually a safe car? In real life, the Mini is... well, mini! Safety was a concern
black, The RX is a better handling car but to me the lack of torque, mazda's weird gearing and the insanely awful gas mileage make the RX a nonstarter. I couldn't live with sub 20 mpg.
There is a lot going on in the Clubman's hindquarters. One way to quiet things down is to get a color that matches (or has minimal contrast) to the available silver or black C-pillars (i.e. get a black or silver Clubman and those pillars will disappear). I personally like the black pillars better for just this reason. My color choice would likely be one of the two blues offered (I like them both) with black rear pillars and a blue roof. I'd finish it off with the British flag on the roof, mirrors and side vents (the blue in the flag pops nicely on a blue car).
As for safety, the Mini comes standard with a host of safety equipment and it's got one of the stiffest/strongest body frames on the market. The advantage to a short chassis is that it's much harder to bend/brake (picking a martial artist trying to break a 4-foot-long board versus a 1-foot-long board and you'll get my point). The Mini is small but safety isn't my biggest concern for the car (adequate interior space for my growing family is).
Thanks Karl.
I priced out a Mini Clubman on their site and working thru the dizzying array of options, I priced out at @$29,000 with modest options and very, very easy to top $35,000+!
I love the style, fun, practicality & mpg's- it's almost a no-lose proposition but the 'real' price pushes it into A3/A4 territory... altho much more stylish than a GTI, the GTI w/ DSG is quite tempting at around $28,000 nicely optioned.
Thanks for the great blog entries!
cruiserhead - If you stay clear of the cosmetic options and super-delux interiors, you can get a well-equped Clubman S for around $28,000. Here's my personal configuration:
Pepper White
Premium Pack
Sport Pack
Cold Weather Pack
Multi-function wheel
Piano-black dash
Total: $28,100
Karl or others,
What's your opinion of the Mini Clubman automatic tranny? I just saw the Edmunds video test drive and the style is cool, rear barn doors are sufficiently cute for my fiance.
However, auto is required... does it kill the Clubman non-S? Skip to a different vehicle if auto is required?
Looking at the Clubman (not S) auto transmission - as a budget minded fun, high style car for the fiance.
The previous auto in the Mini Cooper, the CVT, was - in a word - crap.
The new automatic with traditional gears and paddle shifters rocks. It absolutely does not kill performance to get a Mini (S or non-S) with the automatic. Test drive one and I think you'll like it.
Karl,
Any thoughts on whether the JCW Sport Brake Kit provides any significant improvement in braking performance?
Thanks.