"So I'm asking you: Which of these models is the most exciting new BMW product?"
 
I'd say the 1...... have fun, it sure beats what I have on the docket here at work this week (or any week for that matter!)

The most exciting BMW product of the three, in my opinion, is the new M3. It's got the V8, variable differential, and awesome looks.
 
The 1 looks great, too. But it only comes in two door or convertible forms and for what they've priced it, I would rather spend my money on a 3 series.
 
I don't even get the point of the Clubman. I know I wasn't asking for a bigger, uglier Mini Cooper. If I wanted a Mini, I would get a Cooper.

I'd say the most exciting is the Clubman. People love the mini, but if the rest of the world thinks at all like me, can find it hard to justify the cost to space value. Hopefully the Clubman can capture the attention of the original Mini (maybe not the interior? lol) but provide a backseat thats suitable for more than just the kids/my height challenged friends.
 
The 1 series is great I'm sure, but with the number of 3s out there, I find it hard to believe that a cheaper BMW is necessary. This statement of course doesn't take into account performance.

i couldn't even begin to afford the m3.
 
the 1 series is borderline, but maybe used a year or 2 from now.
 
hmm, if I had to buy one... I'd have to get the mini, dont know if a clubman or not.
 
for your trip. wow, it would be a coin toss between the 1 series, or m3. leaning towards the 1 series since its less proven.

That's a tough one.
 
I think the M3 will be the most exciting to drive, but the most exciting overall? A lot of companies now offer a small sedan/coupe with V8 power and stellar handling. The M3 is probably the best among all of those offerings, but the segment is still getting a bit crowded.
 
I'm really wondering about the future of the 1-series. I'm afraid that its limited practicality and relatively high price (for its size) will regulate it to niche-car status. In fact, I have a gut feeling that it won't even make niche-car status. I think most folks who want a fast car for their thirty-five grand will go for an Evo or an STI, and those who need more space won't even consider it at all. I really hope I'm wrong because to me the 1-series seems like a great proposition. As far as excitement goes, the 1 (for me) doesn't really showcase anything we haven't seen before. The engine options are the same, but now they're just wrapped in a smaller package. I'm sure it'll be spectacular to drive, but for some reason I feel like it we've seen this car already...Who knows.
 
The Clubman is also going to be a niche-car, but I have a feeling that adding practicality to the Cooper will be a huge draw for people who wanted a Mini but didn't want a useless backseat. Yes, the rear doors are a bit unconventional, but Mini buyers love quirkiness. From what I've read so far, it drives just like the normal Mini, and with gas-price woes, the stellar mileage should make it popular among the save-the-Earth crowd. The Clubman S is going to be at the top of my list in a year or so when I'm in the market, so I'm probably a bit biased, but I think because of its accessibility (price-wise), quirky design, and potential to be a strong seller, the Clubman is the most exciting of the three.

My guesses: you will find the 1 the most tossable of the bunch, but will end up craving the M3 because of its higher power and handling. The Clubman will prove the most go-cartish and unusual but finish at the bottom as a driving machine, because of the "wrong" wheels being driven.

Before I totaled my car the 1 and the Clubman were on my short list. The 1 brings a new level of sophistication and driving pleasure to the compact car range. All the other cars are less refined or sophisticated down market cars with performance added in (see the EVO and STI). The 1 brings an inline 6, RWD and BMW steering starting at less than $30K. True the 135 will be closer to $35. But for those of us that can appreciate great balance and fun without an overabundance of power the 128 will be just fine.
 
BMW will sell more 128 than the EVOs and STI's combined. Bank on it.

"All the other cars are less refined or sophisticated down market cars with performance added in (see the EVO and STI)."
 
I'm with you there. The Evo and STI have never really appealed to me for that reason. Plus I'm not a huge fan of spoilers. It's weird though: Most of the people I've talked to don't really understand / don't really care about refinement and are therefore enamored with the Evo and STI. ::Shrug::

I would want to go with the 1 series, but I too doubt how many will buy it over a G35 or TL at the same price, and the fact that it's only available in a "sedan" looking coupe (not nearly as elegant as a G35, or even Altima/Accord coupes) makes me think it won't have much legs. I thought we'd be seeing 27-33k average selling price, but apparently the dollar vs. euro has impacted that rather negatively.
 
So then that leaves the M3 and Clubman, and looking at a summer of 3.50 gas, the choice become pretty clear. I wish the clubman had a more traditional 4 door layout, and I don't think it's great looking, but it fits the needs of a pretty large market.
 
Lastly, anyone who frequents insideline or this blog probably isn't in dire need of hearing about how great the M3 is. It's more or less a forgone conclusion among automotive journalists (even though it's performance isn't much better than the 335).

For my money, it's the 1-series, but only in passing. I say that because, as sabastian pointed out, it'll be pricey, especially as the non-secretary mobile 135i. The twin turbo six is a real piece of work. Lovely engine. I think it's just the velvet hammer that BMW has needed in this country for a while. My only gripes, other than the fact that I can't afford one (maybe, like one of you said, a few years from now) are these:
1. I know that the dollar isn't strong compared to the euro right now, and BMW sells a lot of 3 series cars anyway, but I'd like to see a three--model tier within the 1 series. That is, a 125i (and for that matter a 325i with just more horsepower rather than the 28 moniker) with 230 hp, for about $24k-$26k, a 130i [like the ones they actually have already in Europe?] with 265 hp, for $26k-$28k, and finally the 135i [or just break down and call it the M1, people] with about 320 hp for $30k and up. This pricing structure would be achievable if BMW would let people just order what they wanted on the car, a la MINI, instead of forcing you to buy all these unecessary gimmicky things just because they come "standard." I don't want power windows or leatherette or a sunroof or a six disc changer or nav, etc. I want the twin turbo six and M-spec suspension. I think there are others that would agree with me.
2. Like I said, they don't call the 135i M1 because they made a poor choice with the nomenclature. BMW probably has one of the wonkiest namin systems of any car company I've seen. The 135i, with ECU tuning could easily produce the kind of figures and performance to qualify as an M car. They just won't call it this because of the ugly old lump of nastiness known as M1 from the 1970s. It was hideous. Not particularly fast. BMW needs to get over itself.
3. Too many of them will wind up on the road in the hands of the same gits who buy low-spec 3 series. Posers, if you will. The 128i is the most sorority sister-leaning car ever since the Volkswagen (insert random VW name here) came out in 2001. A 130i could be a bit of a hot car, with the 135i being the ultimate halo machine. As it stands now, you've got to have $36k in the bank to pick up the only reputable non-M car BMW currently sells.

What is the expected price range for the 1-series? If it goes much above 30K I don't see it selling well. At 35K there are a lot of other options.

Welcome back, Brett! We haven't "seen" you in a long time!
 
"BMW will sell more 128 than the EVOs and STI's combined. Bank on it."
I fully agree! However, between a 128i and the Evo/STI, I'll choose the latter. The 128i offers too little practicaly use to warrant its price......I know, it's not meant to be practical, but.......
 
Karl, I'm torn between the M3 and the 1-series! The M3 is the most exciting to me, but it's too expensive for me to forsee myself buying (a new) one in the next 10 years.......the 1-series doesn't offer enough practical use, and is too expensive, to be worth buying......unless they introduce the 4-door hatchback. [The 1-series coupe to me is either a second car or a car a rich person buys for their teenage or college kids.]
While I like the Mini's styling, it's never been a car I really love.
I guess the only 3-series I'd buy is a lower-speced 335i.
 
But, Karl, in terms of the car I'd like to read your opinion about, it's the M3.

> Which one offers the greatest potential benefit to BMW?
> Which one is the most exciting new BMW product?
  
The answer to the above questions is not necessarily the same. (Excluding the 3-series diesel may the answer to both questions, but it's not one of the above three.)
  
I suspect that the Clubman will be viewed as too kooky to be successful; the M3 will offer the most "driving excitement" but will price itself out of the market, whereas the 1 series will offer the greatest potential benefit to BMW, in terms of increased sales/ revenue, if only by the Goldilocks principle!

i've owned two BMWs and currently have a Cooper S.
 
The least significant car: the M3. Overweight, bland (if it's the coupe it's ugly, the sedan's decent), inefficient high-strung V8, low on torque and sadly saddled with the uber-blah e9x chassis. It's a car that exists so badge hounds can say they own one.
 
Clubman's a weird little bugger. The car looks decent but as the current owner of an R56, the FWD layout just negates the possibility of wide-eyed glee. It's fun for sure but at the apex, the car's just not at BMW levels. The extra space is nice except that there's only one more passenger door (uh so driver's never need to get into their side?) and the deletion of the hatch for the ambulance doors not seems unpleasant to look at, it also makes the rear harder to see out of. Additionally, without more power you're asking a longer, heavier car to do the same work as its lighter sibling. It may sell to a few folks but it's pretty much off my shopping list.
 
1 series - gorgeous in person. It's thick, it's hunkered down and it looks like it'll tussle. The weight's still an issue but if you opt for the 128 you can slide in at 3200 lbs. Sill heavy but not as bad as the monstrously heaving 135i. Great upright seating position, like the Mini but the interior's the ideal mix of function/luxury. The rear seat's decent enough for use by little ones or small adults. Right layout with RWD/manual. Some have commented that the car is prone to understeer and that's a bummer. The 135 with a dinan chip will be a screamer (350+ hp, 375+ q). Sadly it shares some chassic components with the lame e9x cars. Another bummer is that ED invoice pricing is not yet an option. When ED invoice pricing like the 3 is possible the car - especially as a 128 - will be a screaming bargain. Making the 1 series as a 4 door sedan would create a homerun for me. Seriously, I'd order today if the 128/135 were available as a sedan.
 
Overall, the M3 will be a smash for the moneyed poseurs of the world and just as ubiquitous in so cal as the last one. The 128 convertibles will be the car-du-jour for all the the socal teens and female executives. I can just imagine the new Starbucks promotions "Buy 5 lattes and get a free cute 128i convertible beemer(shudder)". This promotion, obviously, will replace the current 328i automatic/premium Starbucks promotion that's been underway in socal for the last 10 years.
 
The 128i (sedan or coupe ) is probably my first choice, with the 135 a close second. I'll have to drive them to determine if either one offers the most day-to-day fun. The 135's faster and more tunable but the added weight may negate the car's fun potential in corners. The 128's a nicer blend of size/power on paper. But it's only tunable in the handling department.

“Which of these models is the most exciting new BMW product?”
 
My answer is the M3, but not for the most obvious reasons . . .
 
In June, the M3 will be the first to offer the DCT trans.
7 speed, dual clutch, 2 tenths quicker to 60 compared to the 6 speed manual.
Better fuel mileage than the manual.
And ( so sayeth the marketing literature I have read )
better able to deal with both WOT \ high RPM shifts
and around town \ traffic conditions than BMW’s SMG.
 
When this finds a home in a 335i, I may be ( very ) tempted.
 
Even though:
In the M3, it is a $2,700 option.
( my, my )
 
- Ray
Ready to test drive any BMW 3 without a third pedal . . .

Blueguy,
 
A question about tuning. Wouldn't the 128i be more tunable than the 135i? I mean, since the 135i already has a turbo, doesn't have little "headroom" for tuning? (Kinda like a computer whose processor is already overclocked so there's little headroom for further overclocking?)
 
I would have thought the 128i is waiting for its potential to be unleashed by an aftermarket supercharger, a K&N intake, and the likes?
 
Tell me more! I've lately began to gain interest in tuning cars, so any info I can learn from you would be great! Thanks in advance.

'Tuning' a 335i.
 
One perspective:
 
http://www.dinancars.com/store/Performance-Engine-Software-Boost-Upgrade-c-414-p-3845.html
 
- Ray
Not 'Blueguy'...

Karl, this test you are going to conduct is going to cover three differnet perspectives base on price , market & performance. The middle road winner I guess is the BMW series 1. But, the only thing that kills me is the price. But, last week I saw the new Subaru STI for $ 41K YIKES!!!

Thanks, Ray!
 
Wow, even more reason not to buy an M3! Just not worth it! (Of course, the M3 also has some tuning headroon, but I doubt it's this much.)

Ray, you might also be interested in this story Inside Line did on a Vishnu-tuned E92 335i. The same mods would probably be possible with the 135i's N54 engine.
 
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=119485
 
iskch, you were looking at a fully-loaded STI with forged BBS wheels and navigation system. The base STI starts at $34,995 plus destination, taxes, etc.

Thanks, Suby. I didn't pay too much attention on the price list add ons. Like a kid checking a new toy I just sat down on the car a let it run for a while. No test drive :( Subaru dealer policy!!

Try going to another Subaru dealer. :o) For what it's worth, I think some people who have already purchased STIs on NASIOC.com (North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club) paid less than MSRP for their new ess-tee-eyes.

Blackadder,
 
They beat me to it. The Dinan chip offers extreme power, it's installed by a BMW dealer (when available for a 1) and a warranty. Obviously, brakes, suspension, sway bars can be added too. The biggest issue with the 135 - you can make it stupid fast for a little boost over MSRP and it's still under warranty.
 
BTW, my BMW dealer just called me to schedule a test drive of a 1 series in March.

>>>What is the expected price range for the 1-series? If it goes much above 30K I don't see it selling well. At 35K there are a lot of other options.
 
Pricing is old news. The 128i starts at $28,600. Don't expect to see one under $30K. The 135i starts at $35,000. Many, if not most, will go for $40k+. The 1 series may be great cars but their ludicrous pricing will relegate them to join the X3, X5, and late unlamented Z8 as poseur specials.
 
As for which of these three cars I would take: none of the above. For a fun car I would take a 2002tii over any. Of current bimmers the only ones that would interest me are the X6 and the 535xi wagon. I have a family and need a car that can haul us and all of our stuff, not just two people and a pretend back seat. Don't know why I like the X6, but I do. Kind of reminds me of a big brother to the Porsche 928.

335i coupe or E46 M3 coupe both 6MT, brake/suspension upgrade, light performance modifications and some BBS LM 19" wheels. Absolutely SICK!
 
http://imagenes.topspeed.com/IMG/crop-460x270/e92meete90015-1_5w.jpg
 
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/suspension/suspension_pss9_e46m3_fran_lg.jpg
 

If I had to buy a new BMW: 335i, no question about it. That's the most cost effective piece of machinery BMW makes.
 
Any BMW: I always loved the 850ci.
 
Among the 3 posted: I'd say the Mini. The other 2 are just so far overpriced.

Personally, I like the 6 series better than the 1 series. The 1 series just seems a little too small for me. I like big body cars that relay status.

blackadder I think I see what you are asking about tuning. I think most people (including myself) consider the 135 more tunable than the 128. The way I see it there are two levels of tuning to consider here. There's the tuning that us mere mortals can perform/afford, and then there's $10,000+ in modifications that is simply unrealistic for most of us. When we're talking about that mild tuning, the 135 is more "tunable" because it already has all the turbocharging hardware and software in place, which is rather expensive to add onto an existing naturally aspirated engine. The power levels of the 135 can be cheaply increased by a significant amount by simply telling the computer to increase the boost pressure. This of course, has the ability to shorten the life of the car depending on how much you ask the computer to do. That's the short of it.
 
I am most interested in the 1 Series as it is the one of the three vehicles I can see myself buying in the next 3 years. However, BMW NA would make that decision much easier if they would OFFER THE 1 SERIES 3 AND 5 DOOR VERSIONS IN THE US MARKET! What I really want is the 128i 5-door. Apparently I'm not alone in a desire for the hatch. I hope BMW catches on to this. They need to offer an option for us 1 Series lovers that have a hard time swallowing such an impractical package. Because really the 1 Series is about practicality for most of us, because we can't comfortably afford a 3 Series.
 
This brings me almost to my final point. I found rayainsw's comment very interesting as I didn't know anything about this upcoming DCT transmission in the M3. It sounds very exciting. I love driving my traditional manual transmission vehicle, but if a computer can do the work for me faster and more efficiently, freeing up my hands, while still giving me "total" control when I want it, I'm all for that. I also find it important that that my tires remain directly connected to my crankshaft; in other words no torque converters! I think the torque converter's slop takes most of the fun out of typical automatics, and I'm glad to see DSG/SMG/DCT systems eliminating it.
 
Hey BMW...guess what I discovered the other day? I can get a 5-door GTI with a DSG transmission, configured otherwise similarly to the 1 Series, for about EIGHT THOUSAND less than the 1 Series. Sure it drives the wrong wheels, which is big problem; but when we're talking $8,000 and a slick DSG tranny as a bonus, one begins to question how important RWD is to them. A sale hangs in the balance...

bbecht,
 
I looked long and hard at the GTI 5 door with DSG. Great car - quick, fun, pretty agile, very utilitarian and pretty good economy.
 
In the end I didn't pull the trigger as we have an A3 (same car, just nicer) and the handling wasn't quite right - I was coming out of a BMW. While my Cooper S isn't as good as either of my BMWs it did give me more of that BMW-feel in the switch-gear, steering-wheel-weight, transmission response. I have a feeling, for me, the 1 series price hike will be justifiable. FWD bugs me too much on a day-to-day basis.

Hi Karl,
  
IMHO it's the 1 series however it's impact is being severely muted by BMW marketing department. BMW isn't importing their complete 1 series lineup, actually the US models are not available overseas. Notably missing from the line up is the 118d M Sport and 120d M Sport that gets 52.2 combined MPG (Manual transmission) 43 combined MPG (Automatic transmission). The complete line up is viewable here http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesandspecifications/0,,1156___bs-MQ%3D%3D%40bb-S08wNw%3D%3D%40sit-bmwuk,00.html
 
Wouldn't they capture more of the entry market with the lower priced 116i?
  
I've tried to order a European delivery 1 Series M Sport and the answer is no! What is BMW thinking? Please push the question in your circles!

danhieux,
The word is that BMW is avoiding offering any 4 cylinder models in the US because this effected their image as luxury/sporty cars negatively in the E36 days with the 318 cars. It's the same reason BMW won't offer cloth seats or a hatchback 1 Series. They are still stuck in the old adage that Americans don't like hatchbacks and think they're cheap. I think that opinion is changing quickly in the face of retreats from SUVs and the reality of $3/gallon gas. I don't agree with their reasoning but understand it. I would love to have the option of a 120d; whether I'd choose that option or not I can't say.
 
BDC I appreciate your comment as we seem to have similar taste in cars. I will try to hold out for BMW to come through on a 1 series hatch. Not that I should be buying a car right now anyway! I guess I should still test drive a DSG GTI...
 
It's also worth noting that the insurance will probably be cheaper on the 1 series despite it being worth more. This is based on "ballpark" figures I got on the 3 series vs. the GTI on Allstate's website. I realize 1 series insurance will probably be more than the 3, but I don't expect it to catch the GTI.

Thanks for the comments about tuning, bbechtel. I also think BMW are making a mistake by not introducing the 1-series hatchback.
 
I'd like to add to your comments about the DCT. Despite the advantages of the DCT (faster shifts, convenience of automation when desired), I'd still prefer the traditional manual transmission for several reason, most of which Karl has talk about in a previous article:
 
1. I've driven a GTI with DSG before, as well as a CX-7 with manual shift. While they were fun, I soon felt like I was controlling a car via a joystick in a computer game. In fact, the joy turned to boredom fairly soon and I put both cars in fully-automatic mode. With a real manual, I almost feel the direct contact with the car's mechanicals. I also like the feel of my right hand changing gears and all my two feet getting the action. In short, a traditional manual offers the best driving experience for me.
 
2. As Karl explained in his earlier post, a traditional manual still offers more control in certain tricky or undesirable situations.
 
3. Of course, (traditional) manual transmissions are cheaper. Low price + great driving experince = awesome!
 
4. I have a feeling that it might be easier to tune a manual transmission, eg, change gear ratios, change clutch if need be, change gear lever, etc.
 
5. If the car battery fails on a manual transmission car, push-starting is always an option!
 
6. Finally, there are many things to learn about driving a manual. Although I can drive, I still don't know how to do advanced stuff like heel-and-toe, etc. With an automatic or DCT, one you can drive that's it......
 
The only serious disadvantage I can see about manuals is that manual transmission cars can be stolen more easily by putting the car to neutral and pushing it.
 
I think it's good that BMW is introducing DCT for those who might need it. What I don't like is that in a few years, they'll say "people don't want the manual anymore" and stop selling that! :-( That would really piss me off........

"all my three feet getting the action."
 
Tell us more about the action that 3rd foot is getting.

My bad! LOL......I mean "all two feet"! :-)

I've driven a GTI with DSG before, as well as a CX-7 with manual shift.
 
Uh, what does a CX-7 have to do with a DSG or DCT? The CX-7 certainly isn't using a clutch, let alone two clutches.
 
I agree with your other points but I'm curious how a generic automatic on a CX-7 comes into play in the DSG/DCT equation? There is no comparison.

I see what you're saying, blueguy. Well, both DSG and the CX-7's transmission have the same functionality to the driver: they both shift automatically or let the driver shift him/herself if desired...without the manual operation of a clutch. Although they work differently, and the DSG is more efficient, as far as functionality is concerned they are the same. Hence my grouping them together.

I guess to some it's the same but the DSG is lightning fast and actually uses a clutch, thus you don't get the power loss one experiences with the old school technology of a torque converter in a true automatic.

"Tell us more about the action that 3rd foot is getting."
LMAO!
 
I understand your points against choosing an automated manual transmissions blackadder, and I totally respect the manual purists. Although a manual clutch gives you the possibility for more control, you have to be good enough to utilize it. I would argue that I'm better off with it doing it for me, and I DO heel-toe, on my commute. I know I can't do it as well as VW can though.
 
I hope these new transmissions don't eliminate traditional manual transmissions either. What I do hope is that they eliminate traditional automatic transmissions. In ten years I hope most vehicles are offered in traditional manual and automated manual (no torque converter).