2008 Audi S5: So Nice, I Drove It Thrice
It's rare for me to get into a specific test vehicle more than once, unless it's a long-term car (and sometimes even those cars spend 12 months here and I only drive them two or three times). But in the past four months I've driven the 2008 Audi S5 three times (this is a short-term car that we only get for two weeks at a time; the S5 is on its second trip to the Edmunds offices). The first time was in November, and I was immediately smitten with its combination of sleek body lines and Detroit-like V8 muscle.
The second time was earlier this week, and the third time was last night. Why do I keep grabbing the keys to this car? Because it's just that good. The drivetrain really is a revelation. From the V8 rumble to the powerband to the willing manual shifter this is one incredibly satisfying coupe. My last post focused on how fun it was around sweeping corners, but my recent S5 excursions have relied more heavily on highway travel, where it simply pummels your travel distance into submission. As good at the Infiniti G37 is at eating up road miles, this one is better.
The steering is more connected (falling somewhere between the Infiniti and a 3 Series, but closer to a 3). The clutch take-up is progressive and predictable (something the G37 continues to suffer from), and the seats are just as amazing to sit in as they are to look at (these may be the most visually arresting seats I've ever seen). And of course the MMI interface and the look/feel of the centerstack switchgear makes the car's $60,000 price tag almost seem like a bargain.
This is most impressive because the G37, at almost half the price, is certainly a better "value." If you're thinking in terms of "diminishing return" the S5 probably lands on the downslope side of that analysis. The G37 makes nearly as much horsepower, its exterior style, seat comfort and drivetrain are quite good. Its sound system and graphical interface are appealing. There's little logic to be found in justifying the S5's additional $25,000.
Funny thing is, I drove the G37 a couple days ago and haven't gone near its keys since...
Well put, Karl. The gotta-have-it-quotient on this car is off the chart.
In person this car is a knock-out. Too bad it's an Audi.
Beautiful car and package......MSRP/reliability/cost per mile aside, I'd rather have this than the M3 Coupe. Factor those things in and I might still choose this one, it is just plain sharp.
Lol I will never understand what it is with people and Audis, it seems like they can do no wrong in anything. I admit their interior materials are very nice, but the interior and exterior designs are way too similar between all their cars. As far as engine and performance are concerned, you could probably find similar performance in cheaper cars. Then there's the reliability factor, or the lack of.
I'd rather have the CTS-V coupe whenever it comes out.
I like this car but praising a $60k car for having style, power and performance doesnt mean much to me. For that kind of money it should offer all those things. I can't see myself spending the extra money for this car over a 335i coupe even though the A5 is great looking. If I really wanted to spend $60k I would be hard pressed to pass up on a 550hp CTS-V for this coupe.
So, you're saying you prefer the one that costs 70% more. Funny, I'm not surprised.
I suspect most would prefer a G37 to:
V6 Mustang
4 cylinder Accord
4 cylinder Eclipse
Cobalt Sport
Civic Si
RE: Audi--"exterior designs are way too similar between all their cars"
This is only compounded because, for some reason or another, everyone orders Silver...
I saw the standard A5 in person last weekend (yes, it was Silver/Gray). Absolutely gorgeous. I loved the wide stance and the standard 18s. In a year or so, I want to spoil myself with a performance coupe (but it must be able to seat a small child in the rear). I review/build them on websites now. Can someone explain why the base 335 still only offers 17s?
Moreover, with the week dollar, I figure I may need to take a more serious look at the domestics. Fingers crossed the new Caddy Coupe impresses and arrives soon.
Know what my favorite thing about Audis is? How they continue to con people into paying upwards of $40k for what is, in essence, a Volkswagen, transverse engine and all. Quatro is a joke. Only Subaru has real AWD, and only rear-engine off-road cars have need of it anyway. Audis are couches. Even Mercs are harder-edged these days (C63 Black).
That 60k price tag sticks in my craw. The M3 sedan's only gonna run 53-54k and for what you get there I still think that car is way overpriced. An ED 335i sedan is about 36-37k with a few options; ED 335i coupe about 38-39k. I just don't see the point in dropping 15-20k extra for barely any extra performance. Especially when one can get a dinan chip for 2k and spend a few k on suspension mods to match the M3.
Of course, the Audi is gorgeous inside and out. Sadly, when any piece in that interior breaks - and it will - and you're over 12k miles, Audi won't replace the part unless you bend over for them. Yeah, BMW will replace anything you break in the first 4 yr/50k miles. A defective button on an Audi beyond 12k miles...well that's on your dime. We learned this the hard way with our Audi about a month ago. That 4 yr warranty isn't worth the time it took Audi to pen it.
The S5's exterior is flawless except for those stupid metallic mirror housings. However, the interior looks exactly the same as the A6 and Q7 and that sucks for such a special car. Audi does in fact need better differentiation for their models as daytona_500 stated.
Comparing this car to a G37 is stupid though as the only thing they have in common are two doors. Good one mnorm1
Here's a question: when is Audi going to develop a real RWD platform? The A5 doesn't need AWD and those 19" summer only tires won't provide any more winter traction than any other rear wheel powered sports coupe either.
$60K is not that expensive - the Europeans pay much more. Audi and the rest of the German auto industry destorys Infiniti for quality. It doesn`t all come down to $'s.
"Audi and the rest of the German auto industry destorys Infiniti for quality."
Just not if quality=reliability.
I was just building an s5 on Audi's website last night. I think that price tag is preety steep.
Does anyone know where you can see s5 interior picks?
I couldn't find an image gallery on Audi's website for the life of me. That's my second favorite front end next to the new CTS.
I don't know who would order a $65k audi in silver. Almost every audi I see on the road is silver.
How's its composure while braking? All Audis have had massive front overhangs (a la FWD) and that hurts braking performance.
"$60K is not that expensive..." If you're buying a house, it isn't. I think it's damned expensive for a car. The average purchase price for a new car is around $30k. Any car that's double the average price qualifies as expensive, to me.
bepperb, agreed
esteka, actually the A5, new TT and next gen A4 have a new platform design that pushes the engine back further. They're changing the weight balance considerably on new Audis. Still not RWD but they have been listening to complaints about weight distribution.
"I like this car but praising a $60k car for having style, power and performance doesnt mean much to me. For that kind of money it should offer all those things. I can't see myself spending the extra money for this car over a 335i coupe even though the A5 is great looking..."
Keep in mind the $60K is for the S5, not the regular A5, which I'm guessing comes in more around $45K.
Yes, the A5 is cheaper and price/performance basise against the 335i it'd get pounded like a narc at a biker rally. The S5 can't really even hang with it.
The A5S is a nice car. I hope I'm lucky the next time to test drive one. Price wise is close to a Cayman S.
Karl,
I agree! Being in socal, I've seen a few S5's already. They don't just look better than others, they blow everything away! It's got to be the the best looking production saloon out right now.
It makes the BMW & Merc coupes look ridiculous. They don't compare on the styling- interior or exterior- the Audi really looks like a flagship coupe.
They hit a home run with the S5/A5
I will quote Karl's last S5 post blog- maybe a wakeup to Merc & BMW to remember what made the names so famous.
"However, to possibly understand the S5 you have to step beyond spec sheets and price points and feature content. This sleek coupe has taken Audi's gift for gorgeous to a new level, with sweeping exterior lines and passionate interior panels that belie it's Teutonic heritage. A warm and welcoming cabin, with organic shapes to match its rich materials? What a concept!"
The 335 coupe isn't far behind in styling as far as I'm concerned. They both have excellent stances and proportions. Its just that Audi nailed it completely while the Bimmer still has a few weird surface features and cut lines. Also, the 3 coupe looks too much like the old design to stand out in traffic.
As bluedotcom mentioned, the relocation of the forward axle really makes the entire design of the S5 possible. If you look at an A6 in comparison, the difference is quite obvious. The A6 and A8 both have front wheel drive style overhangs which leaves them looking a little frumpy. I'll pass on the interiors though of BMW and Audi as neither is really that inviting. I've never understood the hype over Audi interiors (except for the A8) as the A4 had the most basic layout possible for years with that tiny low mounted nav screen. There was no imagination in that design at all. The new CTS has everything beat on the market.
Cayman S...... mmm mmm.... good!
"Keep in mind the $60K is for the S5, not the regular A5, which I'm guessing comes in more around $45K."
as BDC said the performance of the 335i will smash the A5 so that isnt a good comparison. I cant find much fault with the S5 (aside from interior that we've seen twice before) but its 340hp isnt all that impressive when a Mustang has 315hp and the new camaro will likely have close to 400hp in V8 guise. Granted the Audi's interior will be better but since Karl made a big deal about the V8 power and sound it should be noted you can get that for less in other applications. The V6 is too underpowered to be taken seriously as a premium luxury coupe. I also dont know about the interior being so good that $60k seems cheap when the new A4 has almost the same interior as does the A6.
"Funny thing is, I drove the G37 a couple days ago and haven't gone near its keys since..."
If I could drive cars for free I would chose the more expensive cars as frequently as possible. Who wouldn't? For $25k the Audi better be superior to the Infiniti.
Why do people seem suprised that this car is expensive? As we all know Audi vehicles arent cheap so why keep nagging about the $60K price tag?
As far as design is concernced Ive seen one on the road and the car was absolutely STUNNING! It looks good sitting, rolling, whatever. I really appreciate this car from a design standpoint as Audi certainly hit the nail on the head.
I find it humerous that some here will knock this car on price alone when they have probably never even seen the car or even had the opportunity to drive the car.
"but its 340hp isnt all that impressive when a Mustang has 315hp and the new camaro will likely have close to 400hp in V8 guise. Granted the Audi's interior will be better but since Karl made a big deal about the V8 power and sound it should be noted you can get that for less in other applications. "
1487, the Audi is a true SPORT/LUXURY coupe while the cars you mentioned ARE NOT! Please compare apples with apples.
No one is surprised this car is expensive. Audi and Volkswagen both have a history of selling overpriced and unreliable cars. What people are saying is that the S5 should be superior to the G37 if they're going to charge a fortune for it. I personally dont see anything great about the S5 thats lacking in other competitors such as the M3 or G37 or the CTS-V.
Daytona, so you're comparing the M3 and S5 to the G37? Come on.........
Once again, it's about buying different things. While the M3 is definitely faster and sportier, it's on the ugly side and not as elegant as this car. If you value performance over elegance and subtlety, the S5 is not worth it. If you prefer elegance and subtlety, this car is worth it.
>>>I loved the wide stance and the standard 18s.... Can someone explain why the base 335 still only offers 17s?
Because 17" wheels are the optimum size for performance. Anything larger than that decreases suspension response and starts adding large amounts of unsprung weight which also decreases performance. Big wheels may look cool to some people, but to those in the know they just make you look like an idiot.
As for reliability versus the G37, well you have VW/Audis reputation for horrendous build quality versus Nissan/Infinitis reputation for horrendous component quality. Both of these reputations are overblown (neither builds BAD vehicles), but like all stereotypes, there IS a reason that people still believe them. Probably a wash, but the overpriced S5 has a cool factor that the overpriced Datsun will never have.
"Because 17" wheels are the optimum size for performance. Anything larger than that decreases suspension response and starts adding large amounts of unsprung weight which also decreases performance. Big wheels may look cool to some people, but to those in the know they just make you look like an idiot."
So the dubs on the R35 Nissan GT-R hurt its performance and make its owners look like idiots? :confused:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=124017
Although you may have more unsprung mass with 18-inch wheels on a 3er compared to 17-inch wheels, try to remember that the 18s also increase the size of the tires' contact patch. And that's a bad thing for performance (yes, I know rolling friction/drag would increase, too)? :confused:
"What people are saying is that the S5 should be superior to the G37 if they're going to charge a fortune for it."
Daytona, I agree. I would say its a better car than the G37 as it should be able to hold its own against the G especially given the price. I would say the car is worth $60K but Id go straight to the BMW dealer and order an M3 sedan.
"I personally dont see anything great about the S5 thats lacking in other competitors such as the M3 or G37 or the CTS-V."
Daytona, the M3 and CTS-V arent competitors to this car. That would be RS4/5 territory.
"Although you may have more unsprung mass with 18-inch wheels on a 3er compared to 17-inch wheels, try to remember that the 18s also increase the size of the tires' contact patch. And that's a bad thing for performance (yes, I know rolling friction/drag would increase, too)? :confused:"
18inch wheels dont necessarily increase contact patch. contact patch is good for accelerating or changes in direction. Actually i wonder about the more unsprung weight issue since forged wheels weigh less than tires usually but someone can correct me if I'm wrong* tires are like ~40lbs, then the wheels are ~20* but basically you want wheels that are just big enough for the brakes. Since the GT-R's brake rotors are probably bigger than those in the 335, they had to increase the wheel diameter
HA4, pricewise the M3 and CTS-V are competitors to the S5 because they are all around the $60K mark. However I admit that both are more hardcore than the S5 so they're not directly related.
But let me revise what I said. I'd say the biggest competitors to the S5 are the G37 and 335i. Considering both are good cars and are between $40-$45K, you gotta wonder why the S5 costs so much more, as in what are you paying for?? Styling? Haha.
Love this car! That is all.
:-)
I had a chance to drive the normal A5 today. The sticker was around forty-six thousand which is still pretty steep, but I don't think that I've ever wanted a car so much after a test drive. I know in my head that there are (technically) better cars for the money, but the rest of me doesn't care about economics. I want one.
"Probably a wash, but the overpriced S5 has a cool factor that the overpriced Datsun will never have."
Do you think you are degrading the G37 by calling it a Datsun?
I find it very sad that people feel the need to make these kind of comments. The "Datsun" GT-R will destroy any current production Audi on the road. Pretty funny, for a lowly Datsun.
As for return on investment:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080303/dc15582.html?.v=1
Top 10 Depreciating 3-Year-Old Vehicles
1. Jaguar XJ8 - 25%
2. Mercedes-Benz CL-Class - 22%
3. Kia Rio - 22%
4. Audi A8 - 21%
5. Lexus LS - 21%
6. Suzuki Verona - 21%
7. Volvo C70 - 20%
8. Hyundai Accent - 20%
9. Audi A4 - 20%
10. Audi A6 - 20%
Funny, there are 3 Audi's on that list.
In about 2-3 years the S5 will be worth the price of a G37. SAD!
Not sad, COOL!
Wait three years and get one for the price of a G37. What a plan!
Drewsx,
"The "Datsun" GT-R will destroy any current production Audi on the road."
That is true, but remember that speed is not the only reason people buy luxury cars. The Evo and STI will probably outrun a 335i, and with very affordable modifications, would probably match an M3 while providing a sportier experience. But why do people buy the M3 or any luxury cars? I think it's for the prestige (primary reason), as well as the luxuries.
The reality is that the S5 is not meant for people for whom performance is the priority. Its for those who value beauty and elegance, as well as prestige.
"As for return on investment: ....."
Remember that most of the cars you listed are luxury vehicles. Why do luxury vehicles depreciate so much? I bet the reason is because luxury car buyers tend to want to buy new and not used. It's poorer people who want prestige but can't afford a new luxury vehicle that buy used luxury vehicles.....and let's not forget that used luxury vehicles are still expensive for most folks. In short, nobody wants used luxury vehicles.
BMW is the only notable exception in this regard. Apart from luxury, BMWs also offer a very sporty experience, so a lot of car enthusiasts still like them used. I strongly believe this is the reason used BMWs don't depreciate as much.
Besides, a car is not really an investment.......
"Remember that most of the cars you listed are luxury vehicles. Why do luxury vehicles depreciate so much? I bet the reason is because luxury car buyers tend to want to buy new and not used. It's poorer people who want prestige but can't afford a new luxury vehicle that buy used luxury vehicles.....and let's not forget that used luxury vehicles are still expensive for most folks. In short, nobody wants used luxury vehicles.
BMW is the only notable exception in this regard. Apart from luxury, BMWs also offer a very sporty experience, so a lot of car enthusiasts still like them used. I strongly believe this is the reason used BMWs don't depreciate as much.
Besides, a car is not really an investment......."
I never could understand why people factor in 2-3 year depreciation when buying a vehicle. The way I see it; if the vehicle is supposedly so good; wouldn't the owner WANT to keep more than 3 years?
"...wouldn't the owner WANT to keep more than 3 years?" Not if your buying fashion statements or status symbols. Shelf life is short for these items.
"Not sad, COOL!
"Wait three years and get one for the price of a G37. What a plan!"
Karl,
I agree with you, the massive depreciation is cool. But not for someone who bought it new. Two questions come to mind; do you want to be the new owner of a 3-year old Audi? Also, in 3-years a new 3-Series and G will be out. Will you still want an old S5? Saying its cool now and actually buying one 3-years down the line when the car industry has changed are two different things.
"Not if your buying fashion statements or status symbols. Shelf life is short for these items."
Oh yeah; I forgot that there are some people just buy thing certain items for no practical reason other than to "impress" other shallow people. To each his/her own.
The S5 certainly seems to be a nice ride; but I'll "settle" for the almost-as-good-but-MUCH-cheaper G37. Oh; and as long as it's a reliable, dependable ride I'll keep it for a lot longer than 3 years. ;)
"Big wheels may look cool to some people, but to those in the know they just make you look like an idiot. "
Wow, you got proof of that? seems to me plenty of performance cars have wheels larger than 17".
"Oh yeah; I forgot that there are some people just buy thing certain items for no practical reason other than to "impress" other shallow people. To each his/her own. "
exactly. The A5 is very nice but not worth the premium over the competing coupes mentioned. At the end of the day what you have is more badge appeal than the G37 and something more exclusive than the 335i coupe. You cant justify it based on performance.
I hope the people that are running their pie holes about the S5 being over priced, and over-rated have at least driven it. Otherwise, it's an opinion based on ignorance.
This car has a different mission than the G37-335. You can sense it as soon as you get in it.
"This car has a different mission than the G37-335. You can sense it as soon as you get in it."
Actually you can sense it when you see it, its just stunning!
It think that the argument boils down to the minor details. I'm a current owner of Acura and Audi vehicles, and I can tell you that interiors and fit-and-finish are worth the price. An M3, while a great driving car on the track and twisties, doesn't have the interior quality, comfort, or focus that Audi does. That's Audi's trademark, along with the Quattro system. At the end of the day, it's a matter of personal taste, and shouldn't be about what others think of your vehicle. If you like it, then great! I will be taking posession of my S5 in 5 weeks and can't wait. It's a true touring car in the grandest sense, and has the luxury and style to boot. And, while I LOVE my Acura RL for full-on luxury and technology, the S5 will fulfill my need for fun and power and will also drive 600-1000 miles with the best of them.