Edmunds CarPool

Speedo up to 100....... that'd be interesting.

Out of curiousity, what's the real world gas mileage on this abbreviated automotive mishap?

Amen KB. In the urban jungle of Center City Philadelphia, I'm beginning to see these things wasting parking spots as they onlu take up 3/5s of a space. When I met up with my boys for Happy Hour a few weeks ago, I saw at least a dozen people stop and stare at the ForTwo parked near the bar. It's a novelty and you can't expect people to judge such a cute little thing based on it's merits. If you can't park an economy sized car, then you need to go practice in an empty lot with some cones. On top of that, the Corolla and Civic get epa mileage pretty close to the Smart with tons more utitlity and no quirks.
 
During my recent 2000 mile road trip to the Alabama and Georgia, I saw one of these things on I-81, an interstate that on the spine of the Appalachians mountains. My 156hp car felt slow enough on the grades so I can only imagine the scene of frurstration inside of that contraption.

this car makes no sense. I bought a 91 Honda CRX HF last summer to drive on my 100 mile daily commute. It is bigger than the Smart and has a nice big hatch that can actually hold several grocery bags. Plus, I have never gotten less than 40mpg and routinely achieve 47-48MPG on my commute. I think they will sell alot at first but I don't think there is enough demand in the US to sustain the sales numbers they are currently reporting.

"Out of curiousity, what's the real world gas mileage on this abbreviated automotive mishap?"
 
For the diesel version we have in Canada, I've heard anywhere from 47 mpg to 67 mpg in city driving. (3.5 L/100km to 5 .0 L/100 km).
 
dougtheeng is correct, they are everywhere up here. Owners really seem to love them too. I think the biggest draw really is character and personality. It's a very interesting car to own unlike your basic Kia or Yaris.

LOL, I love the title of this post.
 
Thank you for telling people how dumb this car really is. I've been saying all along that for the same amount of money you could get a CPO whatever that would have more space, power and comfort.
 
Not sure if you've driven a Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis lately but those are the only cars that I can remember that dont have a tach.
 
doug I also see a lot of these in Canada, and I cant help but shake my head.

The smart is a girl car. Every guy that I have seen driving one looks like a dork behind the wheel. There is a fine line between being different, and just being a dork. I think the smart crosses that line.
 
They have 3 of them sitting at a dealership in the city that I live in. That kind of surprised me considering the supposed waiting list. I didn’t stop in but one of them had a 2007 sticker in the window. Is a 2007 a new or used smart?
 
It will be interesting to see the first smart that gets T-boned by an F-150. Better yet when a Smart gets clipped on the highway doing 70mph. Let’s see how much that safety cell helps when the car rolls over twice.

I thinks is just a dumb, niche ... so many adjectives you can use to describe the car. Safety wise is good and better than some other cars. You can roll over like a soccer ball and the structure holds. No tach? How many people look at the tach less the fuel gauge. You can see drivers barely paying attention to the road while chatting on the phone, make up, eating, reading or text messaging. Only a few of us that pay attention to the road will look at the tach or any other gauges.
 
Fuel economy? You can choose several cars for less than the Smart that gives you good fuel economy. Example: Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic.

My 2008 smart now has 2,500 miles and I'm getting 42-43 MPG
 
the car was not dumbed down for the American market. It's been for sale in Europe for 10 years now. The tach is not standard there either. And while it's nice that all these other cars come with a tach as standard, so what? Most U.S. cars are automatics. How many people even use the tach when driving their cars
 
The reason for no clutch is a packaging thing. There isn't room for a 3rd pedal.
 
The transmission is and operates like a manual. You will not get any smoother shifting than you would with a conventional manual with a clutch. The tranny is adaptive, however, so it will "learn" your driving patterns and become smoother over time. Hopping into one for a few miles isn't enough time for that to happen.
 
While I appreciate that the smart car is not for everyone, I fail to understand why some folks need to question why someone would buy this car.
 
I'm not buying it to save money on gas. I'm not trying to save the environment. I'm not getting it to make a statement. I don't contend that it makes economic or practical sense.
 
For me it's a lifestyle choice. I've fortunately reached a stage in my life where I can afford a fun, frivolous expense on occasion and this happens to be my latest indulgence. I bought my wife a Miata for the same reason - so she could enjoy a toy that she deserves.
 
Yeah we have a (very old) pickup for the odd run to the dump, Costco, Home Depot, etc. We also have a small car for normal, daily use. But these aren't for "fun". They're appliances or tools for everyday life like a refrigerator, a toothbrush and indoor plumbing.
 
I've had many "sensible" vehicles in my life. I can honestly say that I don't think of them (if I can remember them at all) with the same fondness as my first motorcycle (an Indian), my first sports car (Datsun 240Z) or my first superbike (Honda 750 four).
 
You only go around once. Have some fun along the way.

First of all, this was on the vehicle rotation list? Is this in the LT fleet?
 
Second, I see these things all the time (with Canadian plates, presumably from Edmunton or Calgary). They look awful (and extremely girly). With the high winds we get up here (commonly 45+mph) they must be a bear to control down the highway.
 
Third, there is no real advantage to driving one. It's no cheaper, economical, prettier, or even trendy to own one.
 
This is for people who want a cute scooter but their mum won't let them have one.

I could maybe see the appeal of these for pottering about the streets of London, Rome or Paris where the streets are narrower and parking space is at more of a premium. But I wouldn't want to drive one here in the States, space isn't so much of an issue here, the roads are wider (Though sometimes just as congested) and there's generally more than adequate parking faciliities and if a Civic gets the same mileage, I'll take that as it has more speed, space and superior road manners. Over the past few weeks I've seen many FourTwos on the roads here in San Diego but I have a feeling that once the novelty value wears off, they'll be gathering dust on dealers lots.
 
Also I could easily live without my tach, never look at the thing.....and I'd say I have a passion for driving.....love my armrest though.

Agree the tach is not a big deal with an automatic. But everything else about this car still sucks.
 
And, people who live in cities where one of these might actually make sense should be REALLY green and use public transportation. Right?

"I can only imagine the scene of frurstration inside of that contraption.".....
 
LOL!
 
"The smart is a girl car. Every guy that I have seen driving one looks like a dork behind the wheel. There is a fine line between being different, and just being a dork. I think the smart crosses that line." .....
 
LOL!

Karl, I hope you get to drive home a proper car tonight. Maybe there's something English in the Edmunds garage to celebrate St. George's Day?

".......who should buy it. People who have serious parking-space issues. For everyone else, it's a dumb car."
 
That was my exact conclusion even before journalists' test-drive reports made the shortcomings of the car apparent.
 
However, Karl, I don't believe a tach and armrest are necessary in this car. Armrests are useful only on long trips, anyway.... And I reckon only enthusiasts care about tachs, and this car isn't meant for them!
 
"For me it's a lifestyle choice. I've fortunately reached a stage in my life where I can afford a fun, frivolous expense on occasion and this happens to be my latest indulgence."
 
Dancote, how can this car possibly be fun?
While I see your argument, criticism of this car is warranted, because it's not a luxury car, nor a sports car like an MX-5. It is not primarily meant to be an indulgence. The Smart is meant to be a highly economical car with minimum parking requirements. It excels at the second task, but not the first! If a car (or any product) fails to do what it's supposed to do, it should be criticised.
[In the same vein, I felt it was stupid of MOTOR-TREND to say the 135i is better than the Evo because it is a better everyday car.....the Evo is not meant to be a comfortable everyday car! But that's another story....]

agree, dumbSMART.
I've seen this covered golfcart on the 134fwy trying to merge with cube trucks and 18-wheelers; and looks like a new form of suicide.
 
It's ridiculously tiny. Yes, in europe with their cobbled 18th century horse paths, it makes sense for parking and manouvering but this is the USA. Walmart's parking lot is bigger than some nations in the EU.
 
A tight parking space in the USA is one where a Chevy Tahoe can't fit.
 
There is no need for a death trap SMART.
In fact, the SMART makes no real sense at all.
Compare it to a Honda FIT, Mini, or even your long term Jetta TDI.
All have 300% more space, more luxury, more features, much better driving experience, far more practical, are easy to use in the city, are safer and there is no mpg penalty!
 
Besides that, I can actually take a road trip in the other cars... something common in the USA (well, maybe not so much w/ gas prices nowadays).
  
Can you say, "Vegas, baby!" or "Yellowstone!" with the SMART? uh, no.
How does a car that makes you fret if you have more than 2 grocery bags make any sense?
 
Sure, if it got 100mpg's than it's worth the Dork-Patrol look and maybe risking your life merging onto the 110.. but it doesn't.
In fact, I don't think it even does much better than the BMW 335d as far as mpg's go...
 
a sad case of "all show- no go". It's a poser- eco 'green' car.

WRT the tach, don't forget that this car isn't exactly powerful, so if you need to pass someone you have to make the most of what little HP it's got. And guess what gauge is most helpful in maximizing your acceleration in a passing manuever?
 
Hint: It isn't the outside temp gauge (which this car has standard).

Out of all these posts Dancote is the only one that has had anything positive to say about the Smart. That’s all you need to know about this car. This has been one of the most one sided topics Karl has posted in a long time. Not to often do 90% of Karl’s readers agree on a topic like this.

Interesting also the dancote is the only poster so far that owns one.
 
A little more valuable opinion then anyone who describes someone as a "dork" for their choice of car.
 
None of the people I know with Smarts are dorks. They just don't want to drive more car then they need.

And they also like overpaying for the amount of car they do need? It just baffles me. There are other options that are both more fun and more practical. I honestly can't come up with a single attribute where the "Smart" wins apart from minimal square footage. And that advantage is really moot in North America. Drop the price to 12k or so and maybe you can make an argument.

I'm getting a good laugh at all the girlie comments. cars are masculine and feminine, eh? Wow, I'd hate to think people wrap identity into something as worthless as the outside appearance of a car. Do you think people perceive you in a certain way if you have X car v. Y car? Does that matter to you? Really? Is your ego damaged in some way? Did you not hook up with a girl based on your car at some point?
 
As for overpaying, um, car purchases like clothing, food, homes, is all about personal valuation. Some people value different things. To the guy seeking off-roading or towing, what use would one have in a low slung sports car? To the guy with no pretense about his car and just wants something small, why isn't the Yaris a fine choice? By all logic, a 6-7 year old Honda Civic DX satisfies all my needs and the needs of most people in socal. Obviously we all don't drive stripped honda civics. Are we all overpaying for cars? Well, one can make an economic case that most of us do. But from a purely personal level, there's no way to convince others their choices are poor or dorky. And an attempt probably shouldn't be made...

"It's ridiculously tiny. Yes, in europe with their cobbled 18th century horse paths, it makes sense for parking and manouvering but this is the USA. Walmart's parking lot is bigger than some nations in the EU. "
 
Let's keep in mind that Europe also has highways similar to ours. Its not all cobbled streets and horse paths.

BlueGuy - If you were in the market, would you buy a pink VW Beetle as your daily commuter if the price were right?

firstwagon, I didn't say smart drivers are dorks. I said they look like a dork, and I would look like one to if I was driving that car. Car & Driver did a review of the convertible Smart, and they said they felt like dorks behind the wheel.

"Out of all these posts Dancote is the only one that has had anything positive to say about the Smart."
 
Actually the other positive comment was from Firstwagon: "they are everywhere up here. Owners really seem to love them too"
 
It sounds like people that bought them like them. I wouldn't want to drive it down the interstate every day but it looks like a fun choice to drive around town. And a lot of small and large towns at least here in New England have very tight parking. BTW, comparing the Smart to a completely boring car like a Yaris is kind of like comparing a MS Zune to an iPod - sure the Zune has a bigger HD but who wants to actually own one when the iPod is so much cooler.

"Do you think people perceive you in a certain way if you have X car v. Y car?"
 
That's an easy one. Of course they do.

Come on BGD, you know damn well people percieve you in a certain way based on the car you drive. If they didn't the German car industry wouldn't be remotely as large as it is. Do you honestly think the average 3 series buyer would buy the same exact car if it had a GM badge on it? Sure, some buy the car, but most buy the image.

andrew and chevy, the real question is:
 
Do you care? Do you care how people perceive you based on the car you drive?

I don't, but many many millions do. It's a fact of life, created by billions of marketing dollars spent over many decades. And a business which ignores that fact does so at their peril.

Estrka,
 
For the right price, yes I'd take a VW Bettle that's pink. I would be less inclined to take a black car, actually. It would take a much bigger discount to get me into a black car (impossible to keep clean in the dust of this city). In the end, I have the luxury of buying cars based on how they drive, not how they look.
 
I can assure you I'd let everybody know the pink car is mine too - and the deal I got! But honestly, I've driven the beetle and it's horrid - Mrk IV platform. A pink Mini at 3k less than my current car's value? Sure, I'd consider it. Would that hurt resale value later down? That'd be a worry for me. Driving it? Nah. For free, I'd take it and gladly dump my car.

I wouldn’t be caught dead driving a pink Beetle or the Smart car. Yes I do care about what people think of me, and so does everybody else. If that makes me shallow than so be it. If you gave me a free pink Beetle the next day there would be a for sale sign on it.

Cars aren't just a form of transportation -- they ARE image. What about all those SUV buyers? Are they really hauling deer carcasses or scaling the Rubicon? Or, what about Prius buyers? Are they really saving more money than they could in a Civic GX or a Kia Rio? It's all image, and it has been ever since the first custom coachbuilders differentiated themselves from Ford's Model T.
 
Regarding parking space: I have to agree with everyone. When I was driving a 99 Concorde I thought a lot of parking spaces were tight, especially in parking garages. Then I got an 07 Civic and now I never have parking problems! Anything smaller than that is not *necessary* -- at least for parking. But if smaller is more economical for someone that's their choice.

"Yes I do care about what people think of me, and so does everybody else. If that makes me shallow than so be it. "
 
Reading stuff like that, I wonder how do you react when you're stuck driving a really bad rental car, like an HHR or a Malibu? Do you hide when cars come near? Wear big Paris Hilton sunglasses?

“Do you hide when cars come near?”
 
Only when the car is trying to run me over.
 
“Wear big Paris Hilton sunglasses?”
 
Sunglasses and a baseball cap if that rental agency ever hands me the keys to a pink beetle or a Smart Car.
 
You are definitely a better man than me if you can go out and buy a pink beetle for yourself. You might not have a problem waving to friends while your driving around town in something like an old vw hippie van, but I do.
 
They don’t call that thing attached to the sun visor a vanity mirror for no reason.

AUTHOR: firstwagon
DATE: 04/23/2008 10:49:47 PM
EMAIL: pemley@telus.net

In the first place, Malibus and HHRs aren't bad rental cars. They're reliable, relatively bland vehicles (well, the last Malibu anyway, the HHR is arguably even attractive looking). They're also a heck've a lot more appealing to drive and be seen in than one of these tiny overpriced, underperforming (economy and powerwise) deathtraps on wheels. (argue all you want about that safety cage, and I'll stand by my opinion that NO crush space in the car means YOU take the force in a collision with larger vehicles, which is just about everyone ELSE on the roads other than YOU)

"They're also a heck've a lot more appealing to drive and be seen in than one of these tiny overpriced, underperforming (economy and powerwise) deathtraps on wheels"
 
Image wise, I would much rather drive a Smart over an old Malibu. The Smart doesn't meet my everyday needs, but if I was looking for a second car to hop around town in, I would certainly consider it. I personally enjoy the Smart's image better than other small cars - Rio, Accent, etc. I don't think the average person out there hates the Smart as much as the average person in here.

Firstwagon, here the Fit is about the same as the mid-range Smart (ie, the one with A/C and a radio, I pity the poor soul who commutes in an Atlanta summer without either). The Fit, to me, is markedly superior on every point. If you like the Smart, fine. It just strikes me as too heavily compromised for what it delivers.

Has anyone driven the new Malibu with the 4 cylinder, and 6 speed transmission yet?
 
I’m thinking about trading in my Impala and getting that combo now that it’s out. I’ve been waiting to hear some feedback on how well that tranny works before I buy it. I don’t want to buy it if the tranny software is going to fight me over mileage like it does on some of GM’s other 6 speeds.

The problem with the wide range of arguments against cars like the Smart is they all miss the point. You either really enjoy piloting an extremely small vehicle like that around or you don't.
  
If you do, then that feeling can trump everything else, much like motorcycles can appear extremely irrational to non-motorcyclists.
  
I tried the older diesel Smart and thought it was a hoot, like driving a go-cart around. If I could afford one I'd get one tomorrow.
  
I think Smart will sell lots of them in the US (Canadian sales have been strong for years now). Hopefully it will bust open the market for minicars in NA, and Toyota brings in the iQ.

I think I'd enjoy driving a small vehicle. But the safety factor would need to be higher than the Smart really provides (pucker factor otherwise more than offsets fun-to-drive quotient, because I'm NOT having fun when I'm busy avoiding being killed). Going forward with fun to drive, the transmission needs to be smooth, engine needs at least decent (9.5 sec 0-60 in a small car sounds fine), and handling / resistance to feeling like a leaf in a hurricane when hit by crosswinds needs to be decent. I loved driving the 94 Geo Tracker 2wd soft-top we had most of the time, but in freeway merges or windy situations, I dispised it just as much as I otherwise enjoyed it.

chevy let us know when you drive it. I didn't know the 4banger 6 spd was out yet.

Karl's comments about the Smart Fortwo car wasn't completely accurate. I just got one and I was wondering why he was complaining so much about "the grinding/lurching " of the transmission in stop-and-go conditions. If you put the transmission in the shift manually mode, there is no problem.
I learned about this detail in...THE OWNER'S MANUAL!, that Karl said didn't come with the car.
Listen; If you are a die hard muscle car fan-you just love Mustang GT's or Corvettes, you probably wouldn't be caught dead in a Smart Car.
On the other hand, if you want to keep that Corvette, Mustang or whatever is your prize, for special occations, you can save a lot of money driving a Smart Car for the back & forth stuff. Girls like 'em too.
I always assumed I would get another Vette some day. They are so fun to drive & nothin' looks like a Vette, but gas is off the hook now. So I keep my cool car at home for weekends & drive the Smart Car to & from work. It don't lay rubber, but it's sure easy on the pocket.

The grinding/lurching doesn't go away by shifting the car manually. This has to do with the clutch engagement when the car goes from a complete stop to moving (which happens constantly in stop-and-go traffic). The clutch engagement isn't smooth but GRINDING/LURCHING and no setting changes that. Shifting it manually just means it won't shift gears until you tell it to, it has no affect on the basic design/function of the clutch at low speeds (also no effect on the sloppy/slow shifting between gears). Basically, you can control when the bad shifts happen rather than have the bad shifts happen automatically. Not really a "fix" for this car's train-wreck transmission (or goofy ergonomics, or premium fuel requirement, or wind buffeting, or lack of cargo/people space).
 
It's not about the car being as "cool" or "fast" as a muscle/performance car, it's about it being a non-sensical excercise in supposedly saving gas and/or being a great city car, when it isn't particularly good at either of those duties (at least compared to other choices out there) while forcing drivers to pay too a high a price (not just monetary) in the process.

from reading the reviews. the only people that stand the transmisson are the people that spent the 15k or so on this car, and now make excuses for it.
 
I'be even read that you can try to make smooth shifts, by 'easing' off the gas, if you can figure out when it might shift... but even thats hit or miss.

The magic of this car is that it is an econobox w/o feeling (or looking in my eyes) like an econobox. I may have preferred a Mini, but my wife likes this one better. The transmission does suck, but the paddle shifters in manual mode actually make driving this car relatively fun. I actually like driving this car more than my gas-hogging XJR b/c 1) I feel like I am closer to doing something about problems I might otherwise just gripe about; 2) People (both drivers and peds) seem nicer to me (waving me through, etc.) when I drive it (my experience is that people speed up when they see a black XJR trying to change lanes in front of them). Admittedly owning this car for a short time, so far, so good

"The magic of this car is that it is an econobox w/o feeling (or looking in my eyes) like an econobox."
Uhh...ok it doesn't look like an econobox, but it does look like an econo oval. For me, the problem isn't the looks. The problem is, as other here have stated, the cost for what you get and what it does. At $10k, it might be a grand slam. Above $12k it's, Swing And a Miss.

"The magic of this car is that it is an econobox w/o feeling (or looking in my eyes) like an econobox."
  
Exactly, it's a right brain purchase, like a motorcycle or a mini. People who want the cheapest/most room for the dollar will buy an Aveo or Accent. But if you want something different and fun to drive, a Smart is a good thing to try out. I see it as a combination of a motorcycle and a car.
  
That said, I was skeptical until I actually drove one. Remember looking over to the salesman when I was piloting it in traffic and saying 'this feels like a real car!'. Some are going to like it, some are not (like Karl), but it's illuminating that the negative comments are overwhelmingly from people who have never driven the car, while the positives are from those who have.
  
Which is why Schembri and company spent their advertising money on getting butts in seats, and it has paid off handsomely for them.