I don't understand why Ford can't figure out how to make Mercury succeed. It's not like they have too many brands to manage like GM did (Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Saturn). Even if they aren't going to have unique Mercury platforms, they could at least differentiate the styling a little better.
 
Now GM has some pathetic, redundant rebadge jobs too. But here lately there are some very well done examples of platform sharing. Aura and Malibu are both very attractive, but look very different from each other, I bet most non-enthusiast folks don't even know they're related. The G6 is also a very under-rated car, IMHO. The Lambda tiplets (soon to be quadruplets) also have unique character and styling unto themselves.
 
The Grand Marquis (is it dead yet?), Montego, Milan, and Mariner are ridiculous.
 
All this coming from a guy who owns a 2005 Yukon XL. I know it's just a Suburban, but it had the right mix of features and different option packages making it slightly less expensive than a comparably equipped chevy, and our dealership made a very aggressive offer. In that respect, more competition is always better for the consumer. But it does have an identity crisis. I just call it a Suburban when people ask what we drive. So I don't fault anyone who buys a Mercury, I bet they did get a good deal and a few nice options or trim pieces that make it feel special. But that doesn't mean Ford couldn't either absorb them into the fold, or do more to distinguish them.

I don't understand what the differences between Lincon and Mercury are! So.... Lincoln and Mercury are both "upscale" from Ford? Ok. But why do we need two nameplates? Can't we take the higher one, Lincoln I guess, and fold Mercury into the Ford lineup? They don't do enough to differentiate their cars from Ford anyway.
 
But for the original post, Toyota's marketshare is on the rise, and that's all that matters to consumers. If industry sales were level, they would be up. One generally doesn't count overall market losses against a single entity, at least in my line of work.

Lincoln and Mercury seem about as viable as Kia right now. Toyota desperately needs to shake things up in their line-up as they've even managed to screw up Scion. That line seemed fresh, odd and affordable, now it's just weird, expensive and unremarkable.

Mercury is dead in Canada. I occasionally see American Mercury's driving around, but very rarely. It doesn't seem like much of a loss.
 
I'm looking forward to the new Lincoln offerings.

Mercurys havent been sold in Canada in a long time. I think the Grand Marquis is still there under the Ford umbrella though.
 
Ford should have given Mercury a version of the Interceptor concept and not the Sable, and they should have given it the Ford Flex. Instead Ford hogs all the good products and Mercury suffers.

"I don't understand what the differences between Lincon and Mercury are! So.... Lincoln and Mercury are both "upscale" from Ford? Ok. But why do we need two nameplates? Can't we take the higher one, Lincoln I guess, and fold Mercury into the Ford lineup? They don't do enough to differentiate their cars from Ford anyway."
 
Bepper, in the old ways, Ford was the blue-collar buyer's brand, Mercury was for a white-collar guy--someone who couldn't afford a luxury car, but worked in an office or sales. Lincoln was for the affluent only. But of course what happened is that Ford crept upwards and Lincoln crept downwards - squeezing Merc in the middle.
 
There are still a few people out there who would prefer something more exclusive than the base brand but don't want to spend $40K... but nowdays the image of a car has more to do with the model than the make. The Milan and Mountaineer are good examples and could be doing well if Ford did more to distinguish them from the Fusion and Escape... but without that sense of buying into a higher social class, it's just not as valued by the public as it used to be.

Mercury should go the way of Oldsmobile, end of story. Really, what's the point? Correct me if I'm wrong, aren't all Mercury dealers wrapped in with Lincoln and often Ford as well? I doubt you'd have irate dealers in the same way you had when Olds closed shop.
 
Even Lincoln is mostly redundant as tarted up versions of Ford products. Sure, Lexus and Acura feature cars based upon their more plebian corporate cousins, but there's a lot more differentiating the Camry and ES350 than the Fusion and MKZ or the Edge and MKX.
 
And here's some constructive criticism. They say the excellent European Mondeo and Focus Coupe-Convertible are too expensive to sell here as Fords. Why not slap a Lincoln grille, some badges and Sync on them and call them Lincolns?

The MKS looks a little awkward from the outside but the interior is pretty hot. Either way I hope it sells well for Lincoln so they can stick around in the marketplace.

Mercury? I have no idea why Ford keeps Mercury rolling. Is like GM keeping dealers happy with ............ why repeat that same old story.
 
As for Mercury the best solution for Ford is to import their cars from Australia, Asia or Germany. Yes, they are going to be higher price wise than a Ford but you want something different. Same idea like Saturn.
 
Lincoln dealers keep Mercury around so when somebody can't qualify to buy a Lincoln they say "you can get a Mercury for less". I don't see any other reason.
 
By the way Lincoln has done a great job base on some publications to keep customer service and quality up. Good for them.

bepperb,
Market share can also be misleading. Right now in the truck/suv segment they are buying market share. Toyota's been very aggressive on their new Tundra compared to the domestics. Toyota's trying to grab sales before the new F-150 and Ram hit the road later this year.
  You can get a 2008 Tundra 4x4 on a lease for $309/month, or get 0% financing for 60 months. Right now the best apr you can get on a silverado is 2.9% for 36 months. As far as I know the only domestic truck offering 0% for 60 months is the Dodge Ram.
   
I can't believe Ford still thinks they can make a go of Mercury. I live in Michigan and I hardly ever see a new Mercury on the road. Mercury supposedly has a niche with female buyers, but I think that's more wishful thinking than anything. Ford has enough on their plate just trying to bring back Lincoln from the dead to be wasting resources on Mercury.

It's obvious what Ford is doing with Mercury - they are keeping it limping along until they can get Lincoln to become a paying enterprise for a dealer. Then when they slowly kill off Mercury model by model they won't get nearly as much heat from the Lincoln-Mercury dealers (there are few if any Mercury only dealers). That way they avoid the extremely expensive mess that GM went through with Olds. I think it's smart - they need to concentrate on Ford (bread and butter) and Lincoln (near-luxury and luxury). If only GM could so easily trim its brands...

Come on guys, Mercury's purpose is obvious and easily explained in two words: Jill Wagner. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1489978/
 
Of course, she's no Brooke Shields (or Lindsay Wagner -- no relation).

but there's a lot more differentiating the Camry and ES350 than the...
 
A higher price and...yeah that's it. Oh wait, the all-important-for-socal Lexus emblem.

Karl: So true. Still doesn't make me want to buy a Mercury.

Agreed. Like Tiger Woods, I don't actually buy my cars based on celebrity association. Hard to believe anyone does.

"They say the excellent European Mondeo and Focus Coupe-Convertible are too expensive to sell here as Fords. Why not slap a Lincoln grille, some badges and Sync on them and call them Lincolns?"
 
Because they lack the luxury necessary. Slapping a Mercury label on them makes a lot more sense. It'd help differentiate the Mercury brand.

"I don't actually buy my cars based on celebrity association. Hard to believe anyone does."
 
LOL....yeah, so there's absolutely no truth in the rumor you guys got that Ferrari GTS just to drive around SoCal wearing fake mustache's and pretending to be Magnum?

Mercury is suffering from an image problem and a less-than-clearly-defined market niche. Back in the days before ubiquitous imports, having an upper-mid-level domestic make made sense. Now that the market is crowded, there's going to be a brutal Darwinism with underperforming makes which can't stand the competition. Some will fold (Oldsmobile, Plymouth) and others will be reinvented (Cadillac, Mini). Absent a concerted design and marketing push to differentiate their vehicles (like Cadillac has done with some success), I don't see Mercury being around five years from now.

“I don't actually buy my cars based on celebrity association. Hard to believe anyone does.”
   
You would be surprised at how many young people want an Escalade or Benz because some rapper drives one in video. It’s sad to say but the average person in this country isn’t all that bright. People are more monkey see monkey do then we like to admit.

daxtripper , I'm going to have to agree with blueguy about your assessment of the Fusion/MKZ Camry/ES350 . Mainly because the Camry and ES don't even come with different engines.

"LOL....yeah, so there's absolutely no truth in the rumor you guys got that Ferrari GTS just to drive around SoCal wearing fake mustache's and pretending to be Magnum?"
 
Hahah you know its true. I don't blame you though.

Food for thought:
Buick Captures the PGA (HTML used due to link length)
 
I bought my car because Petter Solberg won the 2003 WRC Drivers' title using the Subaru Impreza WRC rally car. j/k I actually wanted a WRX before he became WRC champ.

I'd go one step further. I'd say Lincoln AND Mercury are being squeezed by Ford, Volvo, and (once upon a time) Jaguar. In fact, I'd say Ford alone is squeezing the rest of their portfolio (why buy a Lincoln LT when there's a King Ranch or an F150 Harley-Davidson?). Ford got rid of all the promising (or profitable) lines and kept the leftovers (SVT, Jaguar, Land Rover, et al).
 
Jill Wagner looks far better than Brooke Shields.

Chevy, got some stats on this rapper to benz sales ratio? Sounds like the kind of junk marketing people claim when they have a washed-up-hack like 50 Cent do promo work for Lincoln.

"LOL....yeah, so there's absolutely no truth in the rumor you guys got that Ferrari GTS just to drive around SoCal wearing fake mustache's and pretending to be Magnum?"
 
No, but on occasion I'll put the pedal down on my Ford GT and then scream out, "ABSOLUTELY EEEE-STONISHING!!!"
 
"Jill Wagner looks far better than Brooke Shields."
 
Agreed. I was just joking about her being "no Brooke Shields"

"Chevy, got some stats on this rapper to benz sales ratio? Sounds like the kind of junk marketing people claim when they have a washed-up-hack like 50 Cent do promo work for Lincoln."
 
50 cent has never done any ads for Lincoln. He has been associated with Pontiac. Common does ads for Lincoln and he has nothing in common with 50 cent except being a black male that raps. I don't even like 50 but he is hardly "washed up" in terms of commercial appeal.
 
Mercury could have a purpose if Ford bothered to invest money into the brand and make it a Buick or Acura level brand that is lower than Lincoln and above Ford. I think Mercury should try to go for import owners but it seems like Ford is giving up on them at this point.

Sorry, I got my washed-up wannabes mixed up with different dying brands.

blueguydotcom,
 
  You don't think rappers and entertainers have some impact on car sales? I think they have some marginal impact on certain cars and brands.
 
Chrystler made out very well on the 300M because the hip hop community embraced it. It didn't hurt chrystler having 50 cent and Snoop Dog driving around in the 300M.
 
A small part of the Cadillac revival was due to movie stars and entertainers embracing the Escalade.
 
Look what "Back to the Future" did for the Delorean. That car was one of the biggest piece of ####s ever built, but it still has a cult following to this day.

Chevy,
 
Source? That sounds like urban legend and conjecture.

Blueguy, celebs DO HAVE an impact on car sales. I know one person who went to a dealership to check out an Enclave and later bought it because of Tiger Woods. He saw Tiger's advert of TV and said "what car is Tiger promoting?".......and the rest is history. He may not have paid attention to the advert if it had been promoted by the dealer or even Bob Lutz!
 
"A small part of the Cadillac revival was due to movie stars and entertainers embracing the Escalade."
Very true. Why do you think (most of the time, used) Escalades are popular in the 'hood? Because rappers and athletes love them!
 
Why do you think large chrome-plated alloy wheels are increasing in popularity? Because hip-hop heroes and other entertainers like them.

blueguydotcom,
 
I don't have a source on this one. It's just an opinion, and I could very well be full of it.
 
When Dodge introduced the Charger they made the wheel wells large enough to hold the monster rims that the "gansta" rappers like, and I'm pretty sure 50 cent got one of the first Chargers that came off the assembly line. I'm positive Edmunds did a piece on that a while back.

"Sorry, I got my washed-up wannabes mixed up with different dying brands."
 
I dont think comedy is your forte. Or accuracy for that matter. 50 cent is a lot of things, but washed up isn't one of them as far as I know. According to you Lincoln is a dying brand even though sales have been increasing lately and they are getting a new flagship model and a new crossover in 2009. Got it. Its always amusing when people try to make up for their lack of knowledge about a particular subject by attempting to trivialize the subject as if it's too unimportant to worry about the details.

^^or sentence structure.
 
IMO, celebrity endorsement can be either a positive or a negative thing. There are many people out there who love 50 Cent, which is fine with me. Personally, if 50 Cent endorses it, I would be less likely to consider the car. Some people might think thats reduclous, which is fine. To me, car image is important.

"Personally, if 50 Cent endorses it, I would be less likely to consider the car. Some people might think thats reduclous, which is fine. To me, car image is important."
 
You are right, that is ridiculous. It is incredibly shallow to not buy a particular car because you dont like another person that drives or endorses the car. So if your favorit country or rock music star endorsed a car instead of 50 cent you would be on board?
 
It's funny to me that so many people here think that the tastes of supposedly low life rappers are incompatible with the tastes of "normal" guys from suburban America. Who says that a V8 sedan with RWD doesn't appeal to rappers and suburbanites? A lot of people are quick to deride Cadillacs and Hummers since they see them as "rapper vehicles" but they never seem to notice that Fiddy drives Ferraris and Lambos. MOST of the vehicles preferred by celebs are European, not American.

" It is incredibly shallow to not buy a particular car because you dont like another person that drives or endorses the car. So if your favorit country or rock music star endorsed a car instead of 50 cent you would be on board? "
 
*shrug* Car buying is an emotional process. Do you think Aston Martin sells more cars because its James Bond's car? I certainly do. Celebrity marketing is fine, if you have the right celeb. Obviously this varies person to person. And Escalade with a rapper image, or a Civic Si with a boy-racer image, its your choice. Regardless, it is going to affect your decision.
 
Unless you're perfect and an Aura satisfies all your needs, that is.

1487 -
 
Yes, 50's star is on the wane. How'd that 50 cent movie do?
 
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=getrichordietryin.htm
 
How about his last album?
 
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003642725
 
Compare sales of his last album to The Massacre that came before it. Curtis' is done. You can make any claims you want but the numbers speak loudly. Fidy is so 2005.
 
As for Lincoln it's barely a blip:
 
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/01/03/074291.html
 
Lincoln 2007 car sales: 61k (2006 = 81k)
Lincoln 2007 SUV sales: 70k (2006= 40k)
 
That's a net of 10k. On a manufacture that barely moves 100k models a year. To put that in perspective, the Town Car alone accounted for over 100k units moved yearly in the 90s. So how far has Lincoln fallen? You celebrate a 10k jump when Lincoln was the bestselling luxury brand in America until the 90s! This is a product line that is dying a very slow death.
 
EDIT: I have 50's first two albums and I listen to The Massacre often still. I am a fan of his music. Regardless...

I really couldn't care less about 50 Cent, but "on the wane" is hardly the same as "washed-up". Okay, back to car talk...

GM killed Oldsmobile because it fell under 250k a year. I can't believe Ford can hold on Lincoln with 131k in yearly sales.

"That's a net of 10k. On a manufacture that barely moves 100k models a year. To put that in perspective, the Town Car alone accounted for over 100k units moved yearly in the 90s. So how far has Lincoln fallen? You celebrate a 10k jump when Lincoln was the bestselling luxury brand in America until the 90s! This is a product line that is dying a very slow death. "
 
You said Lincoln was dying as we speak. I asked how that was possible when sales have increased and they have two new models on the way plus a refresh of the MKZ for 2009. In additon Ford is bringng RWD cars to the States which means Lincoln will be getting a RWD vehicle within 3-4 years. How can a brand be dying under those circumstances? You also lumped Pontiac in there and I have to wonder how Pontiac is on the decline when they have the Vive and G8, are dropping the rental king Grand Prix and have the Soltice hardtop and G8 ute coming next year.
 
Scion's sales have been in decline for 18 months or so. Are they dying? As usual your arguments don't stand up to scrutiny.
 
I didnt know 50 cent was a movie star. Thanks for filling me in. Since you are so smart, I'm sure I don;t have to tell you that music sales are down across the board due to online downloads. Its ridiculous to talk about the sales decline of one artist without putting that in the context of the music business as a whole. All genres of music are struggling so I would venture to say most artists were able to sell more 5 years ago then they do today.

1487,
 
Downloads is a red herring. If an act is popular they get legit sales in massive numbers. Fifth's act is tired.
 
As for Lincoln getting a RWD in 3-4 years, it doesn't make sense to keep that brand afloat for that much longer. It's bleeding cash. And the G8 - genius of them to bring a big V8 to market at this time - will not help the fortunes of a company that had its heyday in the 1980s. Like all other American brands, it's only a matter of time. Eventually, thankfully, they'll just be memories...companies talked about by old men who have some kind of illogical reverences for 1950s T-birds and 60s impalas, guys who prattle on about worthless heaps like the GTO and the split window. Guys like my dad - 60+ comfortable retirees clinging to sad notions of Detroit iron. When they pass, so to will the illogical passion for decades of cars and manufacturers that are not impressive.

Wow, blueguy had his coffee this morning...
 
Not all American brands will fail. They may have had to lop off a few limbs and may lop off a few more in the future but the body will live on and grow anew.
 
Only time will tell who's right.

BDC,
 
At least you dont try to contain your contempt and ignorance. I will give you that much. The irony is you seem like the type who would look down on a trailer park living, beer driving, NASCAR watching die hard domestic car fan but you are no different- you just shill for cars from Germany. Detroit isnt going anywhere anytime soon but you can keep on wishing. Don't you know that people like you have been saying the same thing since the 70s and 80s and 90s? Wrong then and wrong now. Recent designs by Toyota and Honda show that they are inviting American brands to take away marketshare. Apparently their succcess has bred complacency and arrogance just like it did for the Big 3 40 years ago.

1487, :D I agree about arrogance and complacency. That's where Hyundai comes in. And if you can find me telling someone to buy a German car without hesitation, good luck. I did my best to talk my sister into a Forrester and yet she still wanted that damned 328xi wagon. I can't fathom what she saw in that car and no matter what I said to her, the 328xi felt better to her on every drive. How can I defeat that? And if I were a german car buff, why would I fight so hard to get her to look more at the Forrester or even - god help me - the CX-7?
 
I don't like American cars, friend. Everybody else gets a fair shake. ;)

"I don't like American cars, friend. Everybody else gets a fair shake. ;)"
 
I dont like unbased attacks from those who admit that don't care about the truth or objectivity. What is the point in trying to convince people of anything when you admit you have no specific basis for your postion that American cars stink? Just attacking because you hate them for no reason is pretty ridiculous. What's more surprising is that you admit you detest cars made and/or engineered in the US without regards to the merits of those vehicles but you still seem to expect others here to take you seriously. In fact, you often speak as if you are some sort of automotive authority when in fact being extremely biased shows that you are only an authority on the few cars you care about. You cant have broad knowledge of cars and honestly believe that everything made by the Big 3 is crap. You even admitted before that you dont even read about half the cars we discuss and yet you still feel obligated to deride those vehicle based on their manufacturer. Since you don't know anything about vehicles that arent Japanese or German and don't care about such vehicle perhaps you should refrain from offering your opinions on such vehicles. Afterall you have to know a little about a topic to offer an informed opinion.
 
"That's where Hyundai comes in."
 
Hyundai's US sales are stagnant and their recent products like the Veracruz and Azera have been lukewarm sales successes. They arent looking much better than GM or Ford in the US market right now when it comes to growth. They have been missing sales targets in recent years.

1487,
 
Luckily, I get to read your objective views on Detroit cars, so I feel I'm getting a clear education on the merits of American cars. Between you and Chevy's views on the equality or even superiority of products from companies that have lost their market share for decades, I think I'm getting more than enough.
 
Obviously, you're an authority on the quality of all cars as you've driven the competition, right? I've driven American cars and continue to get stuck with them on business trips and vacations. There's nothing in Detroit "steal" (on purpose) that's worth my time or money. Bad cars from poorly managed companies hiring unskilled labor and lousy engineers.
 
Ignore Hyundai, just as those precious American companies ignored the Japanese companies. Who will suffer in the end? I've got a hint, look at the companies losing ground for the past 4decades. Are they doomed to the same mistakes? Guaranteed.
 
People like you and Chevy - the American-only crowd - are dwindling. Who still raises their kid to buy American only? Your American car companies, are losing ground. Eventually it'll all be over and the General and Ford will take their place in history as cautionary tales of corporate mismangement.

Dear blueguydotcom - I sell Lincolns and Mercurys. It's a shame that people like you are abandoning the American brands. Mercury sales may be stagnant (for the time being), but Lincoln is doing very well with the MKX, MKZ and the MKS. Hell, the TownCar is still selling well. The Mercury Milan was the #1 mid-size car in America in 2007 ahead of the Accord and Camry. It chaps my a$$ to hear crap from people like you regarding the American brands. I have driven the Japanese imports and find them to be extremely bland and boring. Oh, lets see here, Lincoln Navigator, MKX, MKZ, Mark LT & Mercury Milan, Mountaineer, Sable were all in the top 3 in their respective classes in initial quality and customer satisfaction according to JD Power and Associates. Mercury Sable/Ford Taurus are also the safest cars in America. My father fought the Japanese in the Korean War. I will honor they father. I will NEVER own a Japanese import. Perhaps you should give some thought to relocating (to another country).