I smell controversy around this one...
 
...b/c a fair number of us will point straight to the G35, which does 95% of what the 3 does for less money. I see your point - quality of experience - but I respectfully disagree.
 
Then again, I also breeze through Ross before I shop at the mall.

Couldn't agree more, Karl!
 
I nearly got arrested driving one of these puppies at the Komen Drive for the Cure event last year. Tremendous chassis, steering, and ride quality in a roomy, well-sorted package.
 
Plus, this is the only Bangled BMW that looks proportionate and attractive, IMHO.

I agree as well - we have had one in our driveway for over a year now. It's my wife's daily driver with "just" the premium pkg and all wheel drive. I am impressed every single time I drive this car - really quite a car. My wife loves it and I can't see her strying from these cars (as long as our budget allows that is.....).

rather silly when one considers the 3.0-liter, inline 6 makes 230 horsepower. That's 5hp more than the most powerful 3 Series of just two years ago (no M3 that year, remember?) and still good for a zero-to-60 time in the mid 6s.
 
Not true. The 2003-2006 e46 330i with the performance package (ZHP) made 235 HP. With barely any HP difference the 330i ZHP was faster, more fun, road better, was lighter and happened to be an all around better car.
 
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=100429
 
I've owned a ZHP and picked up my e90 ZSP in Munich in 2006. No comparison. The ZHP is far more of a driver's car and the current e9x BMWs are Buicks.
 
My sister has a loaded e91 right now - navi, automatic, power everything. I can't fathom why she likes it or why she was willing to buy it. The car's so bland it makes every car in the Honda line up seem fresh. Her husband's "stripped" e46 325i with just xenons and sport package is a far more engaging car.

I thought the 330i had 255hp? wasnt that car available 2 years ago?

Gotta agree with 1487, Karl's off on this one.
 
If I am driving a 3er, I would hate to be smoked by a souped up Honda Civic on any surface, whether it's a highway or twisty canyon roads...

I think this car would feel just as "premium" in the "318i" trim.

If you value the tangibles, a base model 3 series is a rip-off. Despite the way that many auto scribes write, most commuters who work office jobs don't drive around on twisty canyon roads all day. They commute in traffic and won't have much need for sublime steering feel.
  
A 328i cost $32,400 and for that you get nothing. No leather, heated seats, HIDs, folding rear seat, power seat, lumber control, no metallic paint, no autodimming mirror, etc. What's the point of buying a luxury car if it has no luxuries? Sure it does have some premium features like puddle lamps and heated washer jets, but none that the buyer will immediately. If anybody is suggesting that this price of admission is worth it just to feel excellent steering, you're fooling yourselves. To make this car desireable to someone who commutes and enjoys true luxury, you have to add: Cold Weather pckg $1000, Prem Pckg $3250, HIDs $800, Logic7 sound system $1200, automatic $1275 and God forbid you want some sparkly metallic paint- that'll be $475 please.
  
For the life of me, I don't see how anyone could be parading around in a stripper 328i as if it's the hottest thing on four wheels. I do not understand the mystique of owning a bare bones "premium" sedan with no premium features. I can get a Mazda 3/6 Grand Touring package with premium steering feel AND luxury features (htd seats, HIDs, auto wipers, etc) for much less money. They might not have the road isolation but at least I can see where the money was spent. This goes for all stripper faux luxury cars... CTS included.
  
For everything the TSX lacks dynamically, at least it feels like money well spent for the way that most people use their cars.

PS- 1487, you are right- the 330/530i were upgraded to 255hp before the turbo 6 was introduced.

Chavis - you are obviously a bitter person. Any BMW is a superior drive to Hondas or Toyotas (or their faux luxury brands Acuar and Lexus). The money gets spent on superior fit and finish, it isn`t just a botu gadgets you might not need like heated seats, automatic wipers etc.
We each have our own wants and needs.

Sure the BMW is a "superior" drive but if I can get 95% of the driving experience plus 70 more hp and twice as much as gadgets for about the same price, what's the point of me buying a 328i?
 
Superior fit and finish? Sorry, Lexus is at least on par with Bimmer on that department if not had them beat...
 
"We each have our own wants and needs."
 
Good for you to say that. Then may I please ask why are you knocking on other brands who provide "wants and needs" for other people?

Gotta weigh in, just having bought a G37 coupe and driven a variety of these sedans/coupes. The equipment level difference is just extraordinary, and the price difference is much larger than MSRP suggests because of how the dealers actually price and option these vehicles. A minimally equipped 328 coupe costs way over $100/month more than my fully optioned G37, and is slower to boot. And I got service thrown in to my deal, and the BMWs have these runflat tires which are killer expensive to replace (I know cause I just came off a BMW lease). I love BMW, the way it drives and looks, but cannot ignore such a huge difference in price. Oh, and one last thing: editors always seem to get these manual transmission cars which are cheaper and more fun. In the real world, you cannot even FIND these cars. I had a dealer do a search for a manual 328 sedan and there was one in the entire state of California available.....

The thing about BMW's is there are 2 sides to them (unlike some other luxury cars) There's the luxury side and there's the sport side.
 
I could really care less about the luxury side. If I want luxury I would buy a Lexus for the reliablity or a Jaguar for the warmth.
 
I would buy a BMW for the way it drives. Things like "leather, heated seats, HIDs, folding rear seat, power seat, lumber control, no metallic paint, no autodimming mirror, etc" serve little or no purpose and only add weight and cost.
 
I would love to see an even more stripped BMW, a true sport model. Give it all the performance parts (no 318tii) and just the basic luxuries (pw,pl, etc).
 
It wouldn't sell well to people who like to sit around pushing buttons while stuck in traffic but not all of us live in southern California.

Gotta agree with folks about ala carte ordering. In fact I want some of BMW's luxury touches nuked: moonroof, auto HVAC, drying brakes, hill-hold clutch, sound insulation, rfts, traction/stability control.
 
FWIW, I live in so cal and my drive in and out of the office doesn't involve just sitting in traffic. My drive's a mix of some stop-n-go and lots of spirited back-road/canyon carving. People who think LA/SD is just bumper-to-bumper haven't been around those cities much. There are plenty of places to exercise a BMW's handling...even on a weekday.

e46 (1999-2005):
325i: 184bhp
330i: 225bhp
M3: 333bhp
 
e90 (2006- )
325i: 215bhp
330i: 255bhp
328i: 230bhp
335i: 300bhp

Two years ago the E90 was available with 255hp since it lauched as a 2006 model.
 
"The money gets spent on superior fit and finish, it isn`t just a botu gadgets you might not need like heated seats, automatic wipers etc. "
 
Spoken like a true BMW fan. You cannot honestly think MB, Lexus and Cadillac cannot compete with BMW in materials and build quality. Give me a break. You pay a lot for BMWs because BMW knows it can charge that much. Its a simple as that. It doesnt cost any more to build a BMW than it does a comparable luxury car. BMW is out to make money and they know in the US they can charge obscene prices and they do. In Europe lots of cars are expensive by US standards so I doubt the premium for BMWs is as substantial as it is here. Thats especially true now with the weak dollar.
 
In the US (remember folks, we live in the US not Europe) features are very much a part of why people own BMWs. A $35k BMW with less features than a $25k Altima is pointless. Regardless of the fact that BDC (what a shock) is one of the only guys in American with an urban commute that involves empty, twisting desert roads the fact is that most people cannot really exploit the capabilties of a sports sedan on a daily basis. If people didnt care about features and comfort and only steering feel Lexus wouldnt be the #1 luxury brand in America and BMW would make Sport Packages standard on every car sold here. BMws are respected by most because they represent luxury and exclusivity and success, not because of their steering feel. I assure you most of the folks driving their auto equipped BMWs through suburban or exurban traffic could care less about handling.

Man, are we spoiled.
 
I have a friend who bought a then-new 1999 328i because it had the higher output and you just have to wonder… if a subsequent version comes out with the same amount of power, but it’s the lower-spec car, what should you think of yours? Is the car “the one for girls”? Is your old car now a girly car? If an enthusiast on a budget buys a new 328i, is he less of a BMW lover as someone who bought a ’99 328i? Whatever our individual answers are, the automotive media makes it clear – if you’re serious about it, the only 3-series you’ll consider is the 335i.
 
I’m not saying 230hp is competitive, or that 300hp isn’t better, but it’s diminishing returns. When it comes to my purchases (in theory), once I’m in the 6.x-second 0-60 power levels, I start turning my attention to other things before I go back to comparing horsepower. In other words, one of the first things I’d be willing to sacrifice in a car purchase is those additional ~50hp. But there’s a certain sense of shame in not buying the higher spec, and I’m sure that steers a lot of would-be buyers towards Infiniti or whatever else.

Here's how I see it:
 
People who buy manual/sports 335i: enthusiasts who got doughs to burn
 
People who buy auto/sports 335i: Love straight line acceleration, probably an enthusiast but don't want to get stuck in traffic with a stick shift (like me, but I don't own one...)
 
People who buy auto/non-sports 335i: Is it possible to find one of these?
 
People who buy manual/bone-stock/sports 328i: Purists, enthusiasts.
 
People who buy auto/non-sports 328i with MSRP of around $40k: They buy the car because of badge, PERIOD.
 
I'll bet that the last case probably consists of at least (if not more than) 50% of the 3-series buying population.

carlisimo -
 
I completely agree with you. I'm at a loss for cars like the 335i and C350, etc, when just a few years ago the base models were top dog. Same goes for family sedans - anyone in a 1990s V6 will find a current 4-cylinder A-OK. Anyone remember when V-6 SUVs took 10 seconds to get to 60 & V-8s only made it in 8 & change? Wow, those days are gone.
 
Ironically, the family car & luxury car horsepower phenomenon are both Nissan's fault.

Jordan,
 
Two fixes:
 
e46 (1999-2005 (went to 2006 for the e46 ci/cic):
325i: 184bhp
330i: 225bhp (2003-2005 330i and 2004-2006 330ci/cic Performance Package equipped cars had 235 HP)
M3: 333bhp

I am not at all suggesting the 328i is a fun car to drive. But honestly, I would expect a bit more OOMPH for the price. HP is not everything, but it IS something. A 2000 Maxima had 222 HP (and cost a few thousand dollars less). My Mini has 208 HP. Is there another car at the BMW's price point with less power.
 
Has this not been a Bimmer, I have a sneaking suspicion Karl and company would be shredding it for its output.

Louiswei, I like your analysis.
 
Personally, if I were to spend money on a 3-series, I would opt for a 335i or 335xi with manual transmission and some "essential luxuries", putting the price between $45k and $50k. I would probably order it, maybe do the European dilivery thing.
 
IMO, it's pointless buying the 328i, period. After experiencing the 335i, I can't go back to the 328i. Instead of buying a 328i, I'd add more money for a 335i.....or if I can't afford that, I'd just get a loaded Mazda 6 GT or Mazdaspeed 6. Despite all its dynamic prowess, I feel the 328i is too expensive and just not worth it, except for the prestige (which is not a priority for me at all).

Blueguy- - I agree, I'd be in one today if it didn't have the sunroof. I came across an M3 without one two years ago, unfortunately, not for sale.

"I would buy a BMW for the way it drives. Things like "leather, heated seats, HIDs, folding rear seat, power seat, lumber control, no metallic paint, no autodimming mirror, etc" serve little or no purpose and only add weight and cost. "
  
I don't undertsand how a "feature" serves little purpose if it performs it's designed function. You my friend are more privelaged than I. My car has to serve multiple needs as I will only own one at a time. I have no need for an overpriced bare-to-the-bones toy the serves up nothing but steering feel. 90% of my driving is done in the city so I'd rather have features that matter to me and provide comfort and convenience. I assume you've never had an oblong object to place in your trunk where folding rear seats might provide proper accomodation... damn those mass multiplying pointless features! Or how about when some idiot in an F-150 leaves his hi-beams shining right into your rear-view. damn that heavy autodimming mirror.
  
BMW is simply gouging it's customers and now Cadillac and others have joined the party. Those who remain hoodwinked will continue to perpetrate the false notion that BMWs are infused with some sort of magical engineering pixie dust that renders all other cars worthless. This is no solid reason in this world why a 3 series shouldn't be offered for a few thousand dollars less. They did, you'd hear no complaints out of my mouth. I'd rather acquire an off lease loaded car for the similar money than a new stripper.

whats funny is many of the people who try and justify how a 230hp stripped BMW is a bargain will scoff at the notion of a $30k altima or accord even those cars offer more space, equal quality, more power and more features when compared with the compact BMW.
 
For people in a certain income category or a certain job or in a certain area a car like a BMW is simply expected. There is no need to try and explain why a BMW is worth its high price, its simply a matter of supply and demand. Regardless of what BMW charges there are thousands of people out there desperate to have the Roundel in their 3 car garage and BMW knows this. The absurd pricing of the 1 series should be a slap in the face to buyers but I'm sure BMW is selling them as fast as they can build them. Same goes for the pointless and expensive X6.

blackadder, I agree.
 
If one has never driven the 335i before then 328i is probably just fine, but like you've said, once you've experienced the 300hp TT it's hard to go back to 230hp. I speak of that from my own experience when I was shopping between the IS350 and IS250.
 
If my budget is around $40k (give or take $2k) I'll take a semi-stripped 335i over a loaded 328i in less than a blink of eyes.

oberg:
 
A 2000 Maxima had 222 HP (and cost a few thousand dollars less). My Mini has 208 HP. Is there another car at the BMW's price point with less power.
 
Your Maxima can't use all HP coming out of a corner - after diving nose-first through it. And the same goes for the Mini.
 
MO, it's pointless buying the 328i, period. After experiencing the 335i, I can't go back to the 328i. Instead of buying a 328i, I'd add more money for a 335i..
 
I wouldn't for two reasons:
 
1. The 335i is 250lbs heavier than the 328 and you feel every darn pound going into a corner.
2. Regardless, you're still driving a car that's removed from the road, quiet and overall pretty bland. At least with the 328 there's a bit lighter, more nimble feel.
 
I say they should drop a 2.0 turbo into the renamed 320, lighten the car by 150 lbs. :) In corners that super-tight chassis would feel better and an easily turned 2.0T can pump 250 hp/270 tq.
 
The absurd pricing of the 1 series should be a slap in the face to buyers but I'm sure BMW is selling them as fast as they can build them.
 
Compared to other cars of that type, the 1 series is priced fine. The 300 hp RWD 135i's base is 35.6k including shipping. A FWD 220 hp TT starts at 35.3k including shipping. That's a direct competitor and the 135 is a far better performer.
 
Did you mean the 135 cab? That's at about 40k starting. Of course the V6 Audi TT roadster starts at 45k! The SLK280 rings in at 45.5k (the SLK350's shocking at 51k) and the 335i cab breaks the bank at 50k starting MSRP. A4 cab with a 4 cylinder starts at 40k, while the V6 hits at an astonishingly silly 48.5k. Maybe the barebones S2000 (35k MSRP)? Base Boxster's 46k, with the Boxster S at 56k. The Base Z roadster's only 36.5k, so I guess that makes the 40k 135 cab seem pricey. But the 350 only seats 2, lacks maintenance and lacks a usable trunk.

Yeah Blueguy, I understand your point of view, but man, have you experienced how exhilarating the 335i's acceleration is? Wow! I'd rather have that and be 250 lb heavier. 250 lb is not much.......the weight of a 6-5 passenger! If I were after nimbleness, I'd opt for a used e46 or e36 instead. But if I have to stick to an e9x it's the 335i for me!
 
While I think the 328i is not worth it, to the guys saying 230 hp is too little...come on! Afterall, the car does 0 to 60 in the low 6s range and that's more important than the power output per se! The Accord V6 has more power but it probably isn't as fast! Besides, the 328i has the handling and all the other stuff that makes for a fun-to-dirve experience. Remember that fun-to-drive is not necessarily synonymous with power.
Also don't forget that the entry-level competition (eg, the IS 250) offers less power.
That said, I prefer the 335i because I'd get both the fun-to-drive and the exhilarating acceleration. And the 335i doesn't cost that much more......
 
Blueguy, I think the 1-series coupe is the greatest waste of money ever. If it were $10k cheaper, I'd be praising it, but for the asking price it's ridiculous, given its useless utility. The TT is similar, but is far, far more stylish! Far more! If I'm spending my money on a car with so little utility, it's gotta be stylish. The 1-series coupe isn't.
I'd buy a Mazda MX-5 instead of a 1-series coupe/convertible.
 

If you're in the $35K price range, a used 335i is a much better option.
 
Ditto on the G37. That's one helluva car. I don't discount the athleticism of BMWs, but BMWs really are image cars to the buying public.

I have a 328i Prem/Sport, manual. Best car I have ever driven. It does the heart good to get in and drive every morning.
 
I don't get on the highway because of this car. I take the long way home because of this car. I don't sweat the MPG because of this car. Camry, Accord, etc. were all to big. And if you like driving, they don't compare. I don't care how many luxuries they cram into them.
 
I would like it to weigh less and be more engaging like the older models, but the beauty that is available makes the rest just pretenders.
 
I was able to lease mine for less than an IS250 with the same amount down. Less than a Mercedes C300, less than a NON-DI CTS. I didn't need the 335i, and the power would have been a waste. I already scare the hell out of wife the way it is. For all you doubters out there go drive one.
 
They may not be the best value, or "bang for the buck." But when you get out of these cars, you are in love. Lexus can't say that, Mercedes can't say that with the C-Class, Acura can't say that with the TSX. Arguably only the CTS, and Audi comes close in my mind.

I have to say, some of these comments (on a car site no less!) show absolute ignorance of cars and what makes them fun to drive.
 
The profit is in the stupid add-on "luxuries" you heap on your heaps.
 
Some of you are comparing torque-steering fwd cars to this rwd one.
 
Some people actually prefer handling, steering feel, braking, solidity, and safety to gaudy add-ons that make your car into your personal sofa in the living room.
 
Btw, BMW's are more expensive now due to the falling dollar, not "gouging". It's not like they can just charge whatever they want.
 
I drive a $35K '06 325i and I could not even tell you what's missing in terms of "options" other than the fact that on a really hot day the leatherette' seats might be more likely to trap heat than real leather. Of course they will also look better in 5 years. I even have the power memory seats, which I could live w/o.
 
What frosts me is people joking that I have a fancy car when they're driving around in $40K pickups and SUV's.
 
I personally can't wait to test the Hyundai Genesis as a replacment for this car in a couple years. I have zero interest in this image junk some people are all hung up on.

Brett, those are perfectly fine reasons to get the 328i but I got only one thing to say:
 
Gotta have them 300+ horses once have it, it's kind of hard to go down from there...

Blackadder,
 
Different priorities. I see tremendous utility in the 1 series - seats 4, good trunk, smaller than the boat-like e90, manual, RWD, 4 year maintenance. If we had a 3-4 year old, I'd be all over the 1. Or if they made a 4 door version I'd be interested.

"Gotta have them 300+ horses once have it, it's kind of hard to go down from there..."
 
That is why I never test drove the 335i. Once I was happy with the 328i, I decided restraint was better path to contentment.

Karl,
 
Is this picture a file photo, because it does not appear this car has the sport package?

Brett, some time ago, while Karl was discussing the Evo, the issue was raised by some of us commentators about whether or not the 3-series is relevant now that the Evo has adequate interior beauty/build. You suggested that I drive the 335i when I got the chance and you promised I would have a smile on my face.
 
I finally got to drive two 355i's (one was manual and one was automatic). Both did put a smile on my face.....by the time I was done with the manual I thought I was in heaven-on-earth! Thanks, Brett.
 
That is why I just can't bring myself to buy a 328i...that's why I feel it's not worth it. I would simply add the extra $5k or so to the 328i for the 335i; if I can't afford the 335i I'll pay a visit to my Mazda dealer!....or maybe the Infiniti dealer. I'm not saying the 328i is a bad car (notice that I think its power is more than adequate) but I feel that BMW might as well make the 335i the only option.
 
I've also driven a CTS with the DI engine. I drove it about 2 weeks before driving the 335i. Both were fast and the CTS is way more beautiful/elegant, but I just enjoyed the 335i much more. The 335i felt more powerful and forceful, I enjoyed its acceleration more, and I loved that exhaust note........finally there was a modern luxury car that isn't too quiet! (In fact, I liked that engine note so much that I didn't bother to touch the stereo of either 335i!!! This is me, who is picky about stereos.....)
 
Thanks once again, Brett. Any other car you can promise to put a smile on my face?
 
Blueguy, I guess we have different priorities. I am looking at it from the perspective of someone who can affod/wants only one car.......I feel like if I sacrifice the utility then the car must give me gorgeous style in return. IMO anything smaller than the e36 is too small to deserve that kind of money they're asking.
BTW, the 3-series also offers manual, RWD and 4-year maintenance......it's not as agile but it's still better than 95% of cars in the driving dynamics department. (I would actually get the 4wd.....I don't need it but I'm just fascinated with it.)
The 1-series hatchback would make sense to me, but not the coupe or the convertible, at their asking prices.

blackadder,
 
Wait, so you are telling me that Brett recommanded you to drive a car that he personally has never driven before?

Coming to think of it, yes! But I 'll defend him and say maybe he was refering to the 3-series as a whole and not necessarily a 335i. :)

A few thoughts:
 
1. Haven't driven the new 328
2. I know HP isn't everything, since I drive a 2001 530 manual sport package and a 1999 M3. Neither awesome from HP standpoint, but awesome cars.
3. You can't compare RWD and FWD.
4. Let someone else pay MSRP, then buy later.
5. Bimmer Magazine claims the 335 is an amazing car but the power and ride is so smooth it isn't engaging.
 
http://cparente.wordpress.com

I am looking at it from the perspective of someone who can affod/wants only one car.......I feel like if I sacrifice the utility then the car must give me gorgeous style in return.
 
I will not spend my money on a car based on appearance. Sheetmetal simply won't sell a car to me. My wife reiterates often that I can get an M3, Porsche, etc. Whatever I want, she's behind it. Affording the car isn't an issue. For now I'm happy with the Cooper S. Should BMW ever make a proper M car again, we'll see.
 
IMO anything smaller than the e36 is too small to deserve that kind of money they're asking.
 
Well the 1 is almost the same size as the e46 ci. :)

Two points I would make:
1. If you haven't driven a 328i yet your opinion of how "underpowered" or "overpriced" it is has little merit.
2. If you haven't driven a 3 Series yet (or particularly a current-gen 3) then your opinion has NO merit.
 
To claim the "steering feel" isn't worth the money shows ignorance. There's a lot more to a 3 Series than steering feel -- if you've driven one you know that.
 
I would never discount a car I haven't driven. First I drive it -- then I discount it. :0
 
Also, this is a file photo but the test car I drove had those exact same wheels, so I know the car in this photo had the Sport Package.

So Karl, given that I have driven the 335i twice (once sports, once non-sports), 328i once, TL once, TL-S once, TSX twice (once new, once old), G35 twice (once new, once old), A4 once for 2 weeks (had it as a rental), IS250 numerous times (have it as a loaner all the time) and that I own an IS350. Does that give me more credibility than other folks on the topic of entry level luxury performance sedan?
 
I am just wondering...

Karl, I've driven the 328i once! That's why I know that I'll never buy a 328i as long as the 335i exists and can be had for the price of a loaded 328i. :)
 
The "steering feel" crowd might be oversimplifying the issue a bit, but they have a point. When buying a car that costs more than $30k, only dedicated enthusiast would spend that kind of money on a car and not want some "creature comforts". Let's face it, despite whatever dynamic prowess a stripper 328i may have, it's price is too high compared to some of its competition....unless you're someone who really, really are into driving dynamics issues. Hence, I can see the merit in the argument that the 328i is overpriced.
In short, a stripped 328i is worth it only for a dedicated entusiast or someone that must have a BMW badge at all costs.
 
Blueguy, I recently saw a 1-series at a dealership. There's no way that thing is as big as an e46 ci!
And, oh, if I'm spending that kind of money on a car that has little utility, I want the style! Like I said, it the 128i were selling for the price of an MX-5, I wouldn't complain about its style.

I guess there is something to the BMW magic, because they're selling like crazy, I saw 3 3 series today all lined up at a stoplight.
 
I've seen a few 1 series and Im not really feeling it. It looks way too small, like it was squashed in a few inches.

"In short, a stripped 328i is worth it only for a dedicated entusiast or someone that must have a BMW badge at all costs. "
 
Agreed. A 328i that starts under $30k would make a lot more sense. The car is simply overpriced, period. Excuses can be made to justify this foolishness, but the fact remains. Now if you have the money to spend and you value chassis response over all else- I have no beef and by all means indulge your appetite for corners. However to suggest the average consumer to buy a stripped 328i over higher value competitors is first step down a long road to insanity.
 
I even see social workers at my job driving stripped out 325/328is. They drive around the city all day dodging potholes so I'm sure they give that chassis a great work-out. If you're posting on this blog, chances are you're an enthusiast. The majority of the 3 series buyers are NOT.

Karl- when you realize your opinions matter to a tiny percent of the buying public, you'll be okay. You provide good reviews but the majority of car buyers don't care about the stuff you (or we) care about.
 
I women at my job who's quite knowledgeable about autos has been in the market for a little while now. She wanted a "gasp" 328i until she realized the cost with a few features she thought a luxury sedan should have. She didn't care about handling or any dynamic quality of the car, she just wanted a nice car to treat herself for working so long and hard and new that BMWs are "great cars." She felt they were asking too much even though she really liked the car that was tested. Now she's looking at a TL or TSX because they come, "with everything." Real world example of a real consumer who makes rational decisions.
 
PS- she's even considering a Mini due to it's good fuel economy. Can't wait to hear what she has to say from that test drive.

Chavis - sounds like the woman at your work wants a Lexus if she doesn't caring about driving. Rational for her, but the definition of rational is different for everyone. Do you really need heated seats in Arizona or Florida??
 
BMW is for those people who actually enjoy driving and do not see driving as a chore for getting from A to B.

I have a 328 with sports package and leather. It is a great car and has most of the items I need including some I don't. Such as the sunroof (included in base car) and the automatic wipers (again included in the base car). It has all the usual stuff a luxury car should have like dual zone climate control, electric windows, mirrors etc. So what does it really miss out on?? Maybe 6 disc autochanger (not really needed), heated seats (again not needed in most of the country). Please let me know what my car misses out on.

"Some people actually prefer handling, steering feel, braking, solidity, and safety to gaudy add-ons that make your car into your personal sofa in the living room. "
 
The arrogance of BMW lovers is astonishing. You cannot be a car fan and honestly think that every car sold without a BMW badge is lacking quality brakes, handling, engine smoothness, etc. BMW may be amongst the best but they are hardly the only game in town. What many folks (including Karl) dont get is that steering feel is subjective. Different journalists give different opinions about the steering feel on the same model. For some folks the steering feel and overall handling feel of the 3 may be worth any amount of money but to most drivers its not that significant. Most folks to not drive for fun, they drive to get to work and thus they could care less about the man-machine interface offered by a 3 series. Even those who buy BMWs dont care.
 
"To claim the "steering feel" isn't worth the money shows ignorance. There's a lot more to a 3 Series than steering feel -- if you've driven one you know that. "
 
Steering feel is what is most often lauded on the 3 series. No one ever said its the ONLY thing it offers. It also offers a small backseat, a small trunk, dated gauges, a dull interior with nice materials and great handling. Considering the steep price of admission I would hope the 3 offers more than just steering feel. You dont have to have driven this particular 3 series to call it overpriced. A car is considered a value (or not) based on what it offers relative to its key competitors. I have driven several versions of the last gen 3 series and the new one sounds like more of the same albeit with better engines and a slightly improved interior. The 3 series has been a nice car for a long time but that doesnt change the fact that its light on equipment for the price. While you personally may not care about luxury features that doesn't mean much to the average luxury car buyer. In the US a BMW is a LUXURY car first and foremost. Anyone who suggests that BMWs are only about handling and the luxury options are for ignorant posers is out of touch with the reality of the luxury car market. People like to have cars that cost more than the average family car and have more features than your average camry or accord. There is nothing exclusive about a base model 328i.
 
Many of the folks here who dont share your opinion that the 328i is all the BMW anyone should ever want or need have driven 3 series cars before. If it were true that the base model 3 series was the end all and be all to entry level luxury the G35, TL and CTS wouldnt exist today. The G35 has been called inferior to the 3 series since its introduction but it has been successful because it offers similar driving characteristics to the 3 while doing so with more space and more features for your dollar.
 
To me if you're a person (rather paid auto scribe or not) who unconditionally considers BMW to be excellent bargains and believes that any sports sedan from any competing manufacturer is incomparable to products made by Almighty BMW than your opinion has no merit. Since driving cars is the only way to qualify someone to make an informed opinion I do wonder if those who swear that competing cars cant hold a candle to the 3 series have actually driven all the cars they are deriding.

"Please let me know what my car misses out on."
 
If you are happy with your car then you are not going to complain about what features it lacks. People are simply saying that you can get a similar driving experience and more luxury features in other cars. Dual zone AC is available in a $24k Toyota or Honda- its not really an exclusive luxury feature. Power windows and locks are standard on any car costing over $18k.
 
If someone loves their Honda Fit they too will argue it has all the luxury features one could ever want. I'm sure owners of more expensive cars would disagree. It would be interesting to know how many folks who get used to the value offered by Infiniti and Acura products actually go back to German cars and their high prices.

AUTHOR: brocklanders
DATE: 05/20/2008 06:49:36 AM
EMAIL: danreitman@gmail.com

I have never driven any 3 series so I won't comment on steering feel or overpriced or any of that but:
 
Are heated seats needed in California or Florida? If you have back pain they can be a life saver no matter where you live.
 
BMWs free service: It isn't free, it is included in the sticker price of the car. This is one big reason why they come off as overpriced.
 
One big question I have is how will this stripper Bimmer at ~$34K compare to the Pontiac G8 GTX with 6 speed for about the same price?

Seems close enough to me:
 
2006 330ci (e46):
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2006/bmw/3series/100652317/specs.html
 
2008 128i
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/bmw/1series/100974974/specs.html
 
It's a little shorter but the interior volume is greater and the weigh is nearly equal.
 
Oh and the 128i is significantly cheaper (29k starting v. 38k starting) than the 2006 330ci while offering more space and more power.
 
2006 330ci pricing: http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-330-2006/available-trims
 
But the 1 is overpriced? Rolling of eyes...
 
Heck the 135 is still a couple grand less than the 2006 e46 330ci and to HP junkies there's little comparison. For the same price as a base 2006 330ci, a new 135 owner could have the car and dinan aftermarket chip, producing over 120 hp more than the e46. But yes, the 135 is overpriced.
 
Of course, all the 135s competitors cost more than the 135; the 128s go against the top-of-the-line V6 FWD coupes (4 place seating) from the likes of Honda, Mitsu, Toyota and Nissan - all ring up into 30k. Maybe one can make a case for the mustang or 350Z but those cars are so rough it's conceivable anyone willing to buy a Z or Stang would only give the 1 series a cursory glance.

"One big question I have is how will this stripper Bimmer at ~$34K compare to the Pontiac G8 GTX with 6 speed for about the same price?"
 
Pontiac G8 is much bigger than the 328 and would get worse fuel economy. It would be faster however.

Wow, Blueguy, I never realised that the e46 330 ci was that small! Thanks for the info.
I think comparing the e46 330ci and the 1-series based on price is a little misleading. The former was basically the top-of-the range 3-series. The 1-series is meant to be the cheap BMW. You know, there is a difference.
 
And, yeah, the tuning potential you mentioned is another reason why I think the 328i is not worth it compared to the 335i.....
Look, don't get me wrong, the stripped 328i is a good car and is fast. And like guy1974 said, it has most convenient features that I would need (although not many of the features I would want in a luxury car, like bluetooth, ipod, lumbar support, digital compass, and maybe navigation). But if I am to spend my money to buy it, I'd rather add more money and get the 335i or get a loaded Mazda 6 or Mazdaspeed 6. Either of these three choices make far more sense and are better value.
Morale of the story: I'd be eternally grateful if someone gave me a strpped 328i (or any 328i for that matter) as a gift, but I wouldn't spend my own money on it.
 
PS: One of my disappointments with the 1-series is the weight. I really expected it to be 500 lb lighter than the 3-series.....anyway, that's another story. I strongly feel that the weight loss of the 1-series is too little to justify the practicality/comfort losses.....at the current MSRPs.

I think comparing the e46 330ci and the 1-series based on price is a little misleading. The former was basically the top-of-the range 3-series. The 1-series is meant to be the cheap BMW. You know, there is a difference.
 
Drive the 128 and then hop in the e46 330ci. The 128 has more interior space, newer, better features and feels just as high quality. The e46 feels better in corners but for that huge of a price jump there's no reason to opt for a e46 ci over a 1 series. Quite simply the 128 is an outstanding value compared to the e46 coupes and nearly the same size with zero let down in quality or luxury features.
 
Current Mazda6? V. any 3 series? Um, no thanks. Mazda6 is decent but it's butt-slow, heavy and FWD. Even the Mazdaspeed6 is by default FWD and insanely heavy/slow. That clunky AWD system only moves some power to the rear when there is slippage, but otherwise it's just a heavier version of the FWD 6.
 
I expect ED on the 1 will be a reality in a year or two. At that point a 1 will be a screaming bargain. 30-32k for a 135 sounds pretty tempting.

1487 - my question was what does my 328 miss out on compared to other so called luxury cars like the Acura TSX, Infiniti G35 and Lexus IS? Not very much. You may think the gauges are dull and not like hte style but plenty of people do. More 3 series are sold than IS's, G35 or TSX. Acura is slowly going down the tubes because there are just really nice Honda's not that there is anything wrong with that, if that is what you like.
 
By your own standards the G35 must be inferior because it sells less than the 3. I do not thinks sales are the bee all and end all but you seem to think so.
 
Of course other manufactuers make great cars that can handle and drive extremely well. BMW just does this consistently and is one of the few companies that does it so consistently.

"More 3 series are sold than IS's, G35 or TSX."
 
Lets not get into that. The 3 has 3 engines, FWD and AWD as well as 3 body styles. Aside from the POntiac G6 I dont think there is another car that has as many combinations available and even the G6 is only available in FWD. You and I both know the TSX and IS only come as sedans.
 
I am not a TSX fan so there's no need to prove to me that Acura is going down the tubes.
 
"BMW just does this consistently and is one of the few companies that does it so consistently."
 
Within the last 5 years or so Cadillac and Infiniti have also been doing the same. While we can say that BMW has been focused on sports sedans for longer than its competitors I believe that today's product offerings are what's relevant to the discussion. That said, even BMWs of a decade ago didnt offer the performance you get in current sports sedans. For the BMW faithful and those chasing badge recognition there is no price too steep for a BMW model. I'm just saying for those that are not sworn to BMW allegiance there are compelling options out there for less money and with better interiors.

I agree there are compelling options but BMW has proven itself able to consistently make good sport sedans. HP has increased in all cars over the past decaded (a movement that will reverse in the next few years).
 
I also agree there are some badge snobs out there, but do not tar all of us BMW drivers as badge snobs.
 
The TSX comes only as a sedan because it is the European Honda Accord. The other models in the 3 lineup add some sales but the sedan in the US is by far the biggest seller. So taking just 3 series sedan sales - there rae more 3 series sedans sold than IS's, G35 etc. Also the G35 has a coupe version. We can ignore the wagon because it is a very smaller seller over here.

Blueguy, the primary reason I think the comparison between the 128i and the e46 330ci is unfair is that the latter is now an outdated model. Really, the e46 330ci is now equivalent to a 335i coupe. Catch my drift?
 
Well, I would opt for a Mazda 6 GT or Mazdaspeed 6 over a 328i because I'll get better value for money. Far more standard equipment and comparable driving dynamics (well, at least for my average driving skills). I'm not trying to rate the Mazda as the 328i's dynamic equal, but I just think the Mazda has far better value: well-equipped and excellent driving dynamics.
Summary: I'd rather drive the best non-luxury sedan (as far as dynamics is concerned) and have it fully loaded than drive the best luxury sedan (again, with regard to driving dynamics) with no options and the lower-powered engine.
 
That's tricky, Blueguy. If I were to buy a Mazda6 I would wait for the new model before I make a decision. Should I not like the new model, I'd get the old/current model. Should I like the new model, I might just wait for the Mazdaspeed version.
 
Yes, I agree. $30k on the 135i would be a bargain! Imagine what $25k on the 128i would be like! At those prices, the 1-series would be worth every penny....although I'd probably go for a 3-series instead because of the practicality.
My main issue with the 1-series (and the 328i) is the current price and not the car itself. If the price is right, it's a superb car.

Really, the e46 330ci is now equivalent to a 335i coupe. Catch my drift?
 
No. Because the e92 is larger, 300 lbs heavier and shares little in common with the e46 330ci. The e87 is about the same size and power as the e46 330ci.
  
I just think the Mazda has far better value: well-equipped and excellent driving dynamics.
Summary: I'd rather drive the best non-luxury sedan (as far as dynamics is concerned) and have it fully loaded than drive the best luxury sedan (again, with regard to driving dynamics) with no options and the lower-powered engine.
 
Yeah, having tracked e46s and driven e90s at the ragged edge (literally skirting cliffs in Switzerland at hyper-legal speeds), I'll take the better handling car with zero luxury touches over the lesser car with every luxury feature.
  
My main issue with the 1-series (and the 328i) is the current price and not the car itself. If the price is right, it's a superb car.
 
What strikes me about this: the 1 series offers e46 size for significantly less money. The e90 is e39-sized (last gen 5) and really doesn't offer a leap over the e46 or e39.
 
To each his own!

"I also agree there are some badge snobs out there, but do not tar all of us BMW drivers as badge snobs. "
 
Never made such a claim. I just get annoyed when BMW lovers pretend that most BMW owners are more savvy and sophisticated than other luxury car brand owners. the most important thing about a BMW to most potential buyers is the prestige than comes with owning one. If you can afford a luxury car you have every right to buy one and all the accolades that come with ownership but lets not try and separate BMW owners from other luxury car owners.

Prestige? It's a car. Nothing more.

"Prestige? It's a car. Nothing more"
 
I agree but many don't share similar sentiments. You often hear words like "heritage" and "legacy" tossed around when discussing BMWs and MBs which are often used as justification for jack-up MSRPs.

Oh 1487 - there is a big difference between a Lexus IS and a BMW 3 (or for that matter a GS and 5 series). Lexus is just a luxury Toyota and it is easy to add proper wood, higher grade leather etc to a standard Camry for example (ES is a camry in drag) and call the car luxury. Some people think it takes more than just some leather, wood and fancy gimmicks to make a car a true luxury car.
 
The Japanese may try and compete with MB, Audi and BMW but they have absolutely nothing on Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, Maserti, Ferrari and Porsche.
 
Some people want a totally reliable car with nice furnishing. I can understand that and am tempted sometimes but then I get in my 3 and it feels so right. Each to their own.

Each to his own, Blueguy, I guess.
 
But with regard to the e46 330ci, I don't get why you don't understand me. The e46 330i was the top-of-the-range 3-series of the e46 line. The 330ci was the coupe version of the 330i. Similarly, the 335i is the top-of-the-range of the e9x line. The 335i coupe is the coupe version of the 335i. So the 335i coupe is the direct successor of the 330ci.
The 1-series is a new line and has no predecessor yet......
 
So while the 1-series has better value in being cheaper while offering more space than the e46 330ci, it's just not right to compare their prices because they serve(d) different roles in the BMW line and belong to different generations. You can't make a sound argument that the 1-series is cheap or worth the price because it offers better value than the e46 330ci.
 
For what it is, i.e. a subcompact BMW line that should cost little more than the Mini Cooper S, the 1-series is too expensive at current prices. If the US dollar stabilises, it might become a bargain when ED is finally available. A $25K 1-series would be great, $23k or $24k just awesome. But until then, the 1-series is not a means by which I could become a BMW customer.
 
"Prestige? It's a car. Nothing more."
 
Come on. You and I know that BMW is a status symbol. I am willing to bet that only 10% of BMW customers buy them for the driving dynamics.

But with regard to the e46 330ci, I don't get why you don't understand me. The e46 330i was the top-of-the-range 3-series of the e46 line.
 
I don't see the difference because there was zero difference between a 325ci and 330ci. Same materials, same parts, same everything (bigger engines, bigger brakes). I owned a e46 330i and e90 330i. They're the same cars as the 325 e46 (bro-in-law has one) and 328/325 e90 (sister has one). There was nothing different or special about them. The top-of-the-line e46 or e90 is the same as the bottom of the line e46/e90 (M excluded).
 
In terms of fit, finish, parts, accessories, engines and chassis components, the 1 and 3 are identical. There are moderate size differences. And huge price differences.
 
The gap between the 128 and e46 330ci = giant in price, nearly non-existent in performance/features/quality, same in size. They could have sold an e46 and e87 side-by-side and people would pick the 1 consistently because it offers the same fit-n-finish, more power, more space, same manufacturing quality and a massive savings. Again, I've owned an e46 330i and e90 330i.
 
It seems people have it in their minds that the 1 and 3 (e9x) are somehow vastly different. They aren't. The gaps come in price and size. Otherwise, everything is the same.
 
BMWs are given away for free at Starbucks.

"Oh 1487 - there is a big difference between a Lexus IS and a BMW 3 (or for that matter a GS and 5 series). Lexus is just a luxury Toyota and it is easy to add proper wood, higher grade leather etc to a standard Camry for example (ES is a camry in drag) and call the car luxury. Some people think it takes more than just some leather, wood and fancy gimmicks to make a car a true luxury car."
 
I dont even like Lexus but your assertion is baseless. Thats like saying the CTS-V is nothing more than a Cobalt with a big motor. I understand that BMW lovers want to deride other luxury brands that are under the umbrella of a larger corporation but large companies have large R&D budgets and can produce impressive luxury vehicles. Do you feel the new CTS-V is hobbled by the fact that some of its designers and engineers may have worked on the Malibu or Cobalt? The ES is the only Lexus car that is shared with a Toyota car. Toyota makes no RWD cars so the IS, GS, SC and LS are exclusive to Lexus and are no less luxurious than comparable BMWs. Its hard to believe your claims that Lexus doesnt know luxury when they are outselling BMW and have been for years. I would say Lexus has a pretty good idea what American luxury buyers want.
 
"The Japanese may try and compete with MB, Audi and BMW but they have absolutely nothing on Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, Maserti, Ferrari and Porsche. "
 
And who cares? The RX350 probably outsells all those brands combined by a huge margin. The ultra luxury market is very small- just as MB after their failed Maybach experiment.

InsideLine's new 135i Long Term car shows just how hard it is to find one of these stripper Bimmers with a manual transmission on a dealer lot. Further proof a lot of people are out of touch with the reality of what consumers want in a luxury car.
 
Go read it.

"Its hard to believe your claims that Lexus doesnt know luxury when they are outselling BMW and have been for years. "
 
Source?

My experience with a 3 mirrors Karls', with one exception: it was rather nasty to get in and out of (the driver door trim kept getting in way of my arms).

1487 - "I dont even like Lexus but your assertion is baseless. Thats like saying the CTS-V is nothing more than a Cobalt with a big motor. I understand that BMW lovers want to deride other luxury brands that are under the umbrella of a larger corporation but large companies have large R&D budgets and can produce impressive luxury vehicles. Do you feel the new CTS-V is hobbled by the fact that some of its designers and engineers may have worked on the Malibu or Cobalt? The ES is the only Lexus car that is shared with a Toyota car. Toyota makes no RWD cars so the IS, GS, SC and LS are exclusive to Lexus and are no less luxurious than comparable BMWs. Its hard to believe your claims that Lexus doesnt know luxury when they are outselling BMW and have been for years. I would say Lexus has a pretty good idea what American luxury buyers want. "
 
You sometimes talk crap. Of course the CTS is not just a cobalt with a bigger engine. Never said it was.
 
Lexus do luxury - wood, leather etc. Very easy to do. They do not do the true essence of luxury which is a certain feel in the car. Not just materials you sit on or touch. Lexus is just a luxury Toyota. All their SUV's are Toyota based plus their top selling ES.

"Source?"
 
I think what 1487 meant was that Lexus has been out selling every other luxury brands (including BMW) in the US market for the last several years. That's really not a secret and you can google it easily.
 
Btw, Lexus is also the luxury brand sales leader in Taiwan.

^^ I read it as Lexus outsold BMW. I did Google it, but was unable to find any comprehensive numbers (only a variety of sources with different year/month sales quotes and I was too lazy to put them all together so I was wondering if 1487 had a better site).

I am too lazy to google for the actual number as well...
 
http://www.lexus.com/about/news/articles/2006/1/20060104_1.html

"Source?"
 
Lexus has been the top selling luxury brand for 8 years or so. Not sure what site would have yearly sales figures readily available. As far as I know BMW has never been the top selling luxury brand. It was Cadillac and MB and Lincoln grabbed it for a year and then Lexus took over.
 
"Not just materials you sit on or touch. Lexus is just a luxury Toyota. All their SUV's are Toyota based plus their top selling ES."
 
So you are saying "luxury" isnt about features, material quality, quiet or anything else that Lexus offers but it is about subjective nonsense that cant be measured but BMW has in spades. Got it. Unless you have some objective measure of how BMW are more "luxurious" than Lexus' or any other brand spare me the lecture. I know about Lexus SUvs which is why I said cars. People equat luxury with quality, state of the art features, quietness, premium level dealer service and performance. Lexus does all that well even if you or I dont like their vehicles.
 
Never did I think I would actually have to spend my time defending Lexus in a forum such as this where most import brands are revered. Where are all the folks who claim I am nothing but a shill for GM or American cars in general?
 
whats funny about that Lexus link posted by lousiwei is that it debunks the myth that Cadillac hasnt been successful or relevant in 5 decades as so many in the press claim. Their best years were in the 80s according to the Lexus press release. The reality is Cadillac is about 25 years from their pinnacle and only 9 or 10 years removed from being the sales leader in the luxury class.

"I am too lazy to google for the actual number as well...
  
http://www.lexus.com/about/news/articles/2006/1/20060104_1.html
"
 
Thanks for the source Louis, I didn't see that page.

1487 is right. To claim that Lexus do not make "real" luxury vehicles is ridiculous and untrue. BMW and Audi focus slightly more on driver satisfaction but that doesn't make them more luxurious.
 
Although I would say that I don't like the fact that Infiniti, Lexus and Acura cars sold here are rebadged Nissan, Toyota and Honda models in other markets. I feel like I'm being robbed....
 
But in terms of build quality, performance, features, refinement, and just about any criteria that are used to judge luxury cars, Lexus, Infinity and Acura are luxury cars just like BMW, Mercedes and Audi!

Blackadder - it is completely true Lexus are just glorified Toyotas with wood and leather. Nothing wrong with that but they are not lucusry in the true meaning od the word. No heritage or design style.

What is the true meaning of the word luxury?
 
Of course Toyota has heritage, they've been around for a long time and they have a legendary name. They didn't start with luxury cars but neither did BMW.
 
They are also have style. If you see a Lexus, you know it's a Lexus. It's a conservative style but no more so the most Benzs and better looking the BMW's recently.

Since I was tired of getting stuck in 1/2 inch of snow in my driveway every winter in my '05 TL, I decided to get an awd car. My hope was that Acura would come out w/AWD & shrink the TL a little or add it to the TSX. Instead, they came up w/a redesigned boat of a TL, designed like a space craft for overweight executives. After a few test drives, just got a demo '09 328i Xdrive, w/sport & prem pkg (auto w/paddle shifters - since I'm in a city). 40 less hp than the TL, but perfect size, much more go-cart like handling, manual mode shifts way quicker. Reminds me of the fun I had w/my '97 Jetta GLX. Since it had 2500 miles, it was the same price as I paid for a new TL 4.5 yrs ago. In terms of a comparison, I can immediately see where BMW spent the money (suspension, AWD, transmission, wheels/tires, etc) & where it is inferior to Acura & probably Lexus, etc from Japan (interior knobs/switches, radio/temp displays-blank w/polarized sunglasses, etc). I have also driven a 335i & was amazed by the power, but my feeling was that it would actually be frustrating having that power & driving mostly in the city. I've always had more fun in cars where I could use a greater portion of their capability w/my regular use (Top 2 in the past Jetta GLX, Honda CRX). Anyway, so far, so good.