Edmunds CarPool

The EL is still only for our neighbors in the Great White North. Just like the low-displacement 3-series Bimmers, Acura probably figures that sort of thing won't fly in the US.
 
The TSX is just outgunned competing with the 3, IS, and G sedans. Not to mention the advertising campaign is downright awful. I'm sure it's a gorgeous car inside, but it looks like an Accord (which it is, ask any European) with a rapper's grill implanted in the front end. There's a caveat though - if they were to give the TSX a 4-cyl turbo-diesel, that could be its way to find a market niche that nobody's currently occupying.

I fully agree! I've always seen Acura as rebadged and "luxurified" European Honda models that are not worthy competition for the 3-series, C-class, etc. I see then as nice luxurious cars but without much prestige.
I'm not against 4-cyl engines in luxury cars at all, but I think Acura should also offer V6s in the TSX.
 
To make matters worse, the previous TSX looks better (on the exterior, at least) than this new TSX!

I am sorry, but I don't think this euro-Accord compares to the S40 and the 9-3. It's all wrong: the high speed feel, the seats, the space, the practicality, the high trunk lift height. As a very good driving appliance it surely excels. But as a practical premium-class family sedan -- not so much.
 
And that shifter is just way too short. I really disliked it during my test drive.

The TSX is not a 3 series or G35 or IS350 competitor. That's what the TL is for. To be honest I dont know where the TSX fits in, I guess it's an entry level TL or upper level Civic.
 
But that being said Acuras just keep getting uglier, like Hondas. I'm really not feeling this new grille that's been slapped on the MDX, RL and now TSX.
 
doug I'd also spent my $30K on a G8 GT. :)

Good blog today, Karl. It was sharp and really well put together. Loved the Spinal Tap reference. I think you make a good point about Acura too. They need to seriously rethink their game to be in the premium segment. The Honda people seem to do really well managing their brand and making products that people want. It baffles me that they have smart people working for them that can't manage to figure out the luxury market.

Telling your friends at the country club or investment firm you went with the Acura product to save money and gas doesn't exactly score status points, and that's what premium brands are all about.
 
They are? What premium brand delivers that? In so cal you're not going to get any status points for getting a Lexus, BMW, MB, etc.

I owned a previous-generation TSX and it was a great car, if slightly underpowered. This car is heavier, barely more powerful and, IMHO, uglier. Too bad. I agree that the carry-over 6-speed manual is fantastic, but the shift nob is still a joke. Do Europeans generally have smaller hands than North Americans?

Acura has been in limbo trying to figure what is a premium car market. They did very well when they introduced the Acura brand and the second follow up but in the last 10 years has been flop after flop. Maybe is the Honda culture mentality that won't let go. About the TSX, I like the previous model and the TL. But I disagree about the pricing. You get better buys for the price.

I wonder if it does compete better against the 3-series in Europe, where most of them are bought with 4-cylinder engines, and in volume-seller quantities. I'm surprised to hear that it drives well (in a Honda sense) though; a lot of initial reviews say it's a lot less fun than the previous one.
 
I'd probably slap on the European Honda front grille and badges if I had a TSX. But that's just me, I like Honda as a brand and I hate alphanumeric names.

When will the high mileage diesel TSX with a really- really-really good Honda engine be available?

The TSX is the same as the European Honda Accord. In Europe it does not compete against BMW, MB, Audi etc. It competes against the Ford Mondeo, Opel Vectra/Insignia etc. It does not seel as well as those makes either.
 
Acura has nowhere to go - they rebadge European Honda's and they only sell in North America. Not a big market to justify the expense of a luxury brand. That's why Lexus and Infiniti try and sell in Europe.

Does Honda have anything in the Japan market to compete against the Toyota Altezza or Nissan Skyline? (Lexus IS and Infiniti G35 in the USA).

Interesting post, and I tend to agree about Acura in general. But I don't think the TSX is positioned against the A4, 3-series, or IS. That's what the TL is for. Now, whether the TL is up to that task is an entirely different story. But as far as the TSX goes, I really do think it's somewhat in a class of its own.

what KArl said about the TSX is accurate but its the same for all acuras and always has been. Honda uses Honda platforms for Acura and simply upgrades the interiors and adds a little more hp and pretends we have a luxury vehicle. The overlap between the TSX and Accord is ridiculous and now the Accord offers 67 more hp for less money and very litte fuel economy penalty. What is Acura thinking? When you only have TWO brands there shouldn't be much overlap at all. The TSX needs a high powered turbo four cylinder and an interior that isnt virtually identical to the Accord. The Accord starts our $8k less, has more space, needs regular fuel and has a reliability reputation that is just as good as the TSX's. The press (and those who take their talking points from auto reviewers) are constantly lambasting American automakers for boneheaded decisions and infer that Honda and Toyota always do the right thing but I just dont see it. Honda is doing well in America but their recent product decisions are stupid and eventually they will pay.

based on size and price the TSX competes with the 9-3, S40, IS250, base model 3 series and A4. Its too weak and cheap to compete with midsize luxury cars. Acura designed a car that will do nothing more than appeal to current TSX owners. Its a classic old school GM move- only worry about current owners when redesigning a car instead of benchmarking the competition.
 
Honda apparently did the same thing for the horrendous new Pilot. C&D said they simply improved what previous owners told them to and you see the result.

7driver, the Lexus IS is called the Lexus IS in Japan.
 
All Honda has is the Acura RL/Legend and S2000 for AWD/RWD in Japan.

I personally don't like the increase in size of the new TSX. And the grill is horrendous. Some of us would like to have a luxurious Civic Si. That is what the previous TSX offered. And it was one of my favorites for its price. But the previous car was $28,000 without the navigation.
 
I don't buy the car for the status. I understand that the market needs to take these things into consideration, but I personally don't care.
 
But I do care that the new car is bigger than a 3 series, still FWD, weighs more, less real power, and took a step back in the cohesive look of the car. At least you can still get a manual.

Karl, you're right, Acura doesn't really compete with Lexus, Infinit, BMW, or Audi - but maybe that's a good thing. Maybe they're fitting into that sub-niche inbetween those guys and Honda/Toyota/Nissan. I don't think there's much market share available up there, anyway, so I'd hate to see Acura go up-market/up-dollar.

I can't believe I forgot to comment on the styling in my original post, as I had a definite opinion about that, too.
 
But you guys all nailed it without my guidance -- not an attractive car. Not sure what the overwrought grille and fat fenders are about, but Acura's (and Honda's) long history of producing timeless (if a bit boring, sometimes) designs disappeared on this one. You could always count on a five-year-old Acura/Honda still looking okay, even if it wasn't a stunner when new.
 
This one isn't a stunner now AND it won't look any better (likely worse) in a few years. One of our staffers, who owned a previous-gen TSX, was able to identify some interior material slips, too. For example, the former metal trim in the dash is now "metallic" plastic, and the former leather wrap on the emergency brake handle is now rubbery plastic.
 
The last TSX was better in almost every way, IMHO.

TSX is just rebadged European Accord. Ford Mondeo beats European Accord anytime. Let alone VW Passat, it is even ridiculous to compare Accord with Passat. So Accord cannot compete even with Mondeo or Passat. Accord is basically irrelevant in Europe - it may compete with other Asian cars, well possibly with Opel too.
 
But in US – I do not see what is problem with offering TSX as aluxury? How it is different from Lincoln? Lincoln is all American luxury car and all Lincolns are FWD cars based on corresponding Ford models.
 
Bragging about BMW or Mercedes – how can you do that? Everybody can buy one. Let alone Lexus – it is luxury car for working class. I know lot of people who make twice as less money than I do and own Mercedes or Lexus – new. And I am not rich in any sense. With current credit standards and lease term – anyone can afford so called “luxury car”.
 
To really deliver your success story in country club - go and buy Maserati or Bently.

I agree that the 2009 Acura TSX does not compete with the BMW 3-series or the G-35 but it also costs a lot less. And it costs more than an Accord with less power but with a nicer interior and a better sound system, memory seats (that don't include the outside mirrors).
 
When I saw that you need to prop the hood up I was convinced the 2009 TSX just isn't a luxury car. But as a daily personal transportation appliance that is kind of fun to drive with lots of toys it's a pretty good car.
 
My sense is that Honda doesn't make real luxury cars because deep down they don't believe that anyone needs anything more than a Honda Accord. So the RL is just a really big Accord. The TSX is a European Accord and the TL is a jazzed up US Accord.

'But in US – I do not see what is problem with offering TSX as aluxury? How it is different from Lincoln? Lincoln is all American luxury car and all Lincolns are FWD cars based on corresponding Ford models."
 
True, and Lincoln's current status in the luxury market reflects that.

It really hard to define what makes a luxury car as opposed to a loaded up family car. I would consider the TSX (and the TL) as entry level luxury cars.
 
Sure they lack the snob appeal of the Euros but they offer one feature as standard equipment that the A4, BMW, MB and especially the Passat don't offer... reliabilty.
 
I would have no problem buying a TSX and driving it for 15 years. I'm not sure if I would want to drive one of the Euros beyond the warranty.

First, good point. A TSX may not be exciting but one could own a TSX for a decade. I wouldn't own any German-made car or American-made car outside of its warranty. - we've had a bunch of european cars the past 8 years. My mini will be gone for sure before that warranty expires.

This car is a joke for more than $30k. If it came loaded for $28-29k, then it'd be great. It has less room and much less power than an Accord but barely returns more MPG and needs premium fuel at that. Are you serious????
  
The interesting thing is that I'd actually drive one of these things (if I could replace the grill) because I do mostly city driving therefore don't need boat loads of power. I'm a gadget junkie and would love the features (though not the interface) but I can't justify stuffing premium into a 200hp car that gets meager mileage and offers no squirt.
  
So I'm in agreement with Karl that Acura needs to get it's act together. This is the result when you build four different cars off the same platform. Platform sharing is one thing but when a $20k Accord is the exact same size as a $45k Acura RL, something is wrong. Don't take my word for it, look up the dimensions. Who does Honda think they are fooling? The question is rhetorical but I'll answer it anyway: they aren't fooling anyone. The RL is a joke, much like the RDX and TSX. Honda hypes up a few technologies and expects everyone to be smitten and bow down in worship as if they reinvented the wheel.
  
The current TL is the best car they've offered since the Legend of the '90s. Too bad it'll soon be butchered with the coporate battering ram grill and the same tired V6/5spd combo saddled with the extra weight of SH-AWD.

"How it is different from Lincoln? Lincoln is all American luxury car and all Lincolns are FWD cars based on corresponding Ford models. "
 
You dont use Lincoln as your guide if you're a luxury brand. Besides, the new Lincoln MKS is more different from any Ford than the TSX is from the Accord. At least the MKS is worth its price premium over the Taurus/Sable.
 
" I wouldn't own any German-made car or American-made car outside of its warranty. - we've had a bunch of european cars the past 8 years."
 
You wouldnt own any American cars, period. You can own any car today for a decade, even a German car. Get out of the 80s and realize that quality is pretty good across the board. Even Chrsyler offers an impressive warranty these days. That said, most americans have no interest in owning a car for 10 years so I laugh whenever people like you talk about how a Honda or Toyota will be reliable for 200k miles. Who cares? Unless I am broke I have no desire to keep my car for a decade. Maybe that will change when I get older and no longer care about cars.

"That said, most americans have no interest in owning a car for 10 years so I laugh whenever people like you talk about how a Honda or Toyota will be reliable for 200k miles. "
 
This is pretty short sighted. Why would you ever be happy with buying something that isn't going to last as long as possible? What about resale?
 
"Who cares? Unless I am broke I have no desire to keep my car for a decade."
 
I look outside and I see plenty of cars approaching and passing 10 years on the road, and I can assure you that their drivers care about the longevity of their vehicle.

"This is pretty short sighted. Why would you ever be happy with buying something that isn't going to last as long as possible? What about resale? "
 
you cannot predict reliability over 200k miles nor does the probability of a vehicle lasting 200k miles directly determine resale value. MBs have extremely high resale value but they do not have a reputation for being trouble free. My point is people like to brag about how their car SHOULD last for 200k miles even though they have no plans to keep it that long. You can make almost any car run well over 100k miles if you are willing to take care of it properly but most folks do not keep a car until it dies these days.
 
"I look outside and I see plenty of cars approaching and passing 10 years on the road, and I can assure you that their drivers care about the longevity of their vehicle."
 
I see plenty as well but many are not driven by the original owner. I didnt say cars shouldnt last more than 10 years, I said most folks dont keep the same car for that long. From what I've read the average person holds on to a car 6 or 7 years which is longer than in the past. Part of the reason domestic quality was lacking in the 60s and 70s was that people didnt view cars as long term purchases. Car loans were 2 or 3 years and people got a new car frequently. No one cared about cars lasting 100k miles because they would be done with the car long before that. Warranties back in the day were measured in months, not years.

"Honda uses Honda platforms for Acura and simply upgrades the interiors and adds a little more hp and pretends we have a luxury vehicle. "
 
It goes a bit deeper than that. Drive a TL Type S and a Accord V6 EX-L back to back. BIG Difference! The TL isnt just an Accord with different sheet metal and interior trimmings. Dont forget Cadillac shares its platforms also!
 
I do agree that Acura has a lot of work to do as Ive been saying this since the late 90's. For some stupid reason, Honda would never let Acura do its thing independently although now Acura has the chance to really...really stretch its legs.
 
Now that Acura has its own dedicated design center/staff in California, I think within the next few years you will see a much richer product line. Ive also heard that the next generation of Acura vehicles WONT use Honda platforms. Id use the current TL/TSX and 09 TL/RL as stepping stones untill the revamped next generation of Acura debut. Ive heard from several sources (various dealer staff who have seen the 09 TL) that its a knockout and totally different from the current TL. Its about damn time!
 
Quote from Jeff Palmer, moderator of TOV (Temple of VTEC):
 
"2008 was a relatively quiet model year for Honda and Acura, with only one (albeit a BIG one) FMC taking place between the two brands. By contrast, 2009 will be a HUGE year from a new product perspective. Starting with the 2009 TSX (now in showrooms) and the 2009 RL, Acura will be introducing something new every 6 months for the next few years.
 
Acura
With the MDX topping Acura's 2008 sales charts to date, Acura's volume sedans can't get here soon enough. As mentioned above, Acura officials have indicated that there will be something new appearing in showrooms every six months for some time to come. That sounds like a lot of product, but word has it (from the dealer rumormill) that Acura is busy working on several new models to add to the line, including a new sedan, a convertible, a new crossover, and supposedly, even a new SUV. And of course, work continues on the successor to the NSX. Given the climate of the current marketplace, it would seem odd if Acura is putting any sort of resources towards the development of a new SUV, but perhaps it's more than just an "SUV"."
 
Given that Acura recently stated that they want to become a tier 1 luxury nameplate within the next 5-6 years Id say they better have some interesting and desirable products in store. I know the talent and engineering are present but will Acura deliver?
 
If Acura wants to achieve that goal and become a global nameplate they better "BRING IT"!

Ive said before that if Acura had the chance to ever do its own thing that both brands (Acura and Honda) would benefit from this. Why you ask?
 
1) If Acura increased its performance to match or better the competition and used RWD based platforms Honda could up the performance on their higher end offerings such as the Accord/Pilot. Just think if Honda would produce a Accord ( sport trim) that drove/handled like the current TL/TL-S. Certain Honda models could grow without having the fear of stepping on Acuras toes.
 
2) This would further seperate the 2 brands which is what Acura wants and needs.
 
3) Acura could become a global nameplate, not just limited to the north American market.
 
3) Increased sales (globally) and a much better brand image.
 
The only thing about becoming a global nameplate is that Honda has the Accord (TSX) and Legend (RL) in other parts of the world. They couldnt just slap on an Acura badge and call it a day. Im not sure how they will handle that part. Acura CERTAINLY has a lot of work to do.

"It really hard to define what makes a luxury car as opposed to a loaded up family car. I would consider the TSX (and the TL) as entry level luxury cars."
 
I tested Audi 80/A4 and European Accords/TSX back to back several times during last 15 years. And I can tell you that difference is like day and night.
 
Every time Accord felt as a tinny car with sewing machine noise coming out from engine department. In addition it has cheesy interior, does not feels as solid and as expensive as Audi regardless you drive it or you just seat in it.
 
Yes A4 can be considered as an entry-level luxury, but European Accord – only in someone’s wild imagination. And BTW A4 shared platform with Passat , so it is not about sharing platforms or not – it is about execution.
 
Yes, may be EuroAccord/TSX is relatively fun to drive compared to Toyota Camry, but it has nothing to do with luxury. It does not have luxury feeling, be it exterior or interior, drive quality and so on. And Ford Mondeo outperforms Accord in any respect regarding driving. America’s adulation for appliances like Accord or Camry is something beyond my understanding.

America’s adulation for appliances like Accord or Camry is something beyond my understanding.
 
Is it possible to give you a +11 for that?

"It goes a bit deeper than that. Drive a TL Type S and a Accord V6 EX-L back to back. BIG Difference! The TL isnt just an Accord with different sheet metal and interior trimmings. Dont forget Cadillac shares its platforms also! "
 
CAdillac shares platforms on XLR and Escalade. The XLR is VERY different from the vette. The Escalade is to the Tahoe what the TL is to the Accord. The sigma chassis is not shared with any lower GM brands.
 
I have heard the hype over the new TL and I believe it will be more attractive than TSX and RL (how can it not be?) but Acura is up against some stiff competition in that segment so the TL would have to be great to make any headway. The CTS and C class are brand new and both are selling well. The new Maxima is coming out this summer and will a very close competitor to the TL. The MKS is also coming out as well as a new MKZ next year. We know Acura is going to load up the TL with a big nav screen, nav traffic, bluetooth, fancy sound system etc, but those things are available on virtually every luxury car. When is Acura going to learn you need more than nav and bluetooth to sell luxury cars?

"America’s adulation for appliances like Accord or Camry is something beyond my understanding"
 
I wouldn't buy one either but I do understand why so many do.
 
Most people do not look at cars from a performance point of view. The top points on their lists are reliable, comfortable and practical. They have busy lives and they want a car that will cover their needs and not cause them any problems.
 
From that point of view, the Camry and the Accord score a 10 out of 10.
 
Some over priced Europeon car with questionably reliablity is a risky choice.

"It goes a bit deeper than that. Drive a TL Type S and a Accord V6 EX-L back to back. BIG Difference! The TL isnt just an Accord with different sheet metal and interior trimmings. Dont forget Cadillac shares its platforms also! "
 
That's like saying a base model CTS V6 with the skinny 17" rims is an altogether different car than the 469hp STS-V. Same platform- different wheelbase lengths. The differences between the Accord and TL aren't deep at all. It's pretty simple: the TL has a shorter wheelbase, firmer chassis calibration and more aggressive summer only tires (although 4seasons are available) therefor it handles better.
 
Cadillac DTS shares the old G platform with the Lucerne but the car's are dynamically identicle in their highest trims- same engine, transmission, final drive, wheel/tire size and Magnetic Ride Control. Sigma platform is exclusive to Cadillac so notice how the cheaper Zeta platform is used in the G8 and Camaro. The cost of the G8 would be thousands higher if it used Cadillac's RWD platform.

I do agree on the Acura/Honda conumdrum: if Acuras in other parts of the world are just Hondas, how can they travel up market without causing confusion overseas? Actually, I wouldn't even have a problem with Acuras if their prices undercut the competition by a large enough margin. They'd be nice alternatives to the ubiquitous 3 series. If I see one more 3 series I think I may puke- they are everywhere. If it were up to me, I'd junk the TSX and have the TL cover a wider range of the field. That way, the TL could start where the Accord leaves off and go up from there.
 
However as HondaAcura alluded, with Accords crossing the $30k mark, you can't really position Acura as a value amongst other luxury makes. I'd love to consider a car like the TSX and they are even offering some great lease rates here in Philly but sadly, I'd rather purchase an off lease CTS than a brand spanking new TSX if the prices were the same. I think I might even get a slighty used 9-3 over this TSX even if it's isn't "techno-charged".

I did forget about the DTS and Lucerne sharing a platform. They certainly look more different than the TL and Accord or the TSX and Accord or the Accord and RL. No one has mentioned it but the interior of the TSX is very similar to the 2008 Accord.
 
Acura's problem is larger than simply lacking high end product. Part of their issue is that people are not willing to pay more than $35k for an Acura unless its an SUV. The RL has been a sales flop since the first one debuted in 1996 or so. People feel the car is too expensive and too stale. Acura is seen as a step above regular Japanese brands, not as an equal to BMW and MB. A loaded 1 series costs as much as the RL and yet I bet BMW wont have any problems peddling the overpriced compact car.

I think a lot of Acuras issues stem from the "value" equation. Sure people want a lot of car for the money but if you can afford a "luxury car" I dont think value is upmost important as the Germans have been priced rediculously for years and BMW and Mercs sell quite well. Lexus and Cadillac are getting up there too.
 
Another would be compromise. Luxury car buyers want exclusivity not a loaded up, fancy, super duper AWD Accord. These cars HAVE to be alltogether different. Built different, drive different, feel different and look different. The sales/service experience also has to be first rate. For example, my local Acura dealer (Lexington, Ky) shares its sales floor, service and staff with Pontiac. Im not knocking Pontiacs but .......its just not in the same league as the BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Cadillac and Lexus dealers in the same area.....not even close. I will say the Acura dealer netowork as a whole is much better than in past years.
 
Cadillac is in a similar although MUCH better situation as they have already been a leader in luxury cars (in the US) decades ago, so they have some history. They have had to revamp, redesign, rethink, and restructure the Cadillac name/image and doing a fine job. They have direction and plans to do what they have to do to become a major play in the luxury segment. Keep the product fresh, competitive and consistent.....and it all works out by itself.
 
Cadillacs biggest advatages over Acura :
 
1) They already have desirable products on the market.
2) The Cadillac name has history and prestige.
3) Their halo vehicles.
4) Dedication to match or exceed the performance of its European rivals.
 
Ive been a member of TOV (Temple of VTEC) since 1997 and this has been an ongoing topic for years. Everyone on the site fully agrees that Acura has A LOT of work to do and if they dont execute it just so then they might as well hang it up. Acutally there is a HUGE thread (one of many) about what Acura should do as a brand going as I type this.
 
The part I dont understand is why Honda has held Acura back so long? I know the engineering talent is there and other factors involving making a great product but why has Honda never allowed Acura to fully stretch its legs?
 
Hondas answer, "not enough resources". Hmmm....you can engineer a humanoid robot (Asimo) and build business jets but you dont have the resources to make the Acura brand world class or even give the Accord a 6AT? I dont buy it!

Haven't driven the new TSX, but drove the previous generation along with the TL, A4, and G35 all back to back. The previous TSX was an underpowered disappointment. Hated the lack of leg room and the CVT in the A4. The TL was nice, a good looking Accord with more power, but it didn't drive that much different than the Accord and it requires premium gasoline. The winner was the G35 which was much more fun to drive than the others. My friend who was also test driving these cars ended up buying a used Accord EX-V6 instead. She liked the look of the TL, but couldn't justify the cost difference over a loaded Accord.

I actually liked TL a lot from design point of view, but price always seemed to be ridiculous, I just could not imagine shelling out so much money for glorified Accord. But now it most likely gets as porky and ugly as new Accord and therefore becomes irrelevant.
 
“For example, my local Acura dealer (Lexington, Ky) shares its sales floor, service and staff with Pontiac.”
 
Big deal – Lincoln shares dealerships with Ford these days. Inability of such an old and respected company as Ford to design and produce luxury cars frustrates me. Honda is a motorcycle company that also makes cars so I never expected then to make anything beyond appliance level cars. But Ford has 100 years dedicated to car production, and here we are – they ruined Lincoln and after that - Jaguar.
 
“Most people do not look at cars from a performance point of view. The top points on their lists are reliable, comfortable and practical.”
 
May be not current generation of Americans. I love American cars from 50-s and 60-s and then Americans evidently liked stylish cars. American cars were the envy of the world.

I test drove the old tsx and came to the same conclusion. It was a nice 4 cylinder Accord with all the options. But a little grainy and lacked punch, of course.
 
Back then, there were fewer options that met the basic requirements of handling and braking prowess, reasonable power, safety features, and decent looks. Today there are quite a few improved entries in the midsize class and I wouldn't even bother test driving this car. I'd either slot in below it in price and get more power in exchange for maybe some refinement and luxury, or I'd step up to the TL/G35/328i stripper price range.
 
And pretty soon, you can buy a low range Hyundai Genesis sedan for about the same price. Or a V6 Hyudai Genesis coupe which looks even more exciting if you can live with the coupe limitations.

53 mpg TSX in the near future?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/automobiles/autoreviews/18DRIVE.html?em&ex=1211169600&en=9835cd9226b91f7f&ei=5087%0A

Maybe spurred on by Karls' blog entry, but I drove a new TSX today. It too was a 6-speed model, but without the Tech Package. It seems Acura sells very few manual cars these days, as this was the only one on the dealer's lot.
 
In any event, I too was wooed by the typical Honda/Acura refinement. It's certainly light-years nicer than my WRX in that regard. However, I found my WRX more enjoyable to drive. Maybe it was the FWD vs. AWD; I'm not sure. I did detect a trace of torque-steer while accellerating hard out of a slow corner. The other thing I didn't care for was that it seemed a bit floaty out on the highway, almost like being buffeted by wind—but it was not a windy day. It might be the new electric steering, as Edmunds on their road test also commented on the electric steering, and not favorably.
 
The TSX engine is classic Honda, in that it loves to rev, and makes most of its power up high. So rowing the gearbox was indeed fun—but that's the only way you can get power from this car. It has to be revved.
 
The clutch and steering are both quite a bit lighter than that of my WRX. I didn't notice that until I got back in my WRX and drove off. I was thinking, geez, this car steers heavy and I didn't realize how heavy my clutch was...
 
But you know what? My WRX felt more buttoned down, and it felt more "substantial" than the TSX—more German-like—and I enjoyed "driving" it more. It's got more power, especially in the lower rev range.
 
Now if only Subaru would offer a WRX (or STI) with the level of luxury and refinement found in this TSX, I might consider selling my first-born for one. :) Oh, and no, I'm already aware of the Legacy spec.B, which is also a fine car. I just want all those elements in the smaller and more fun WRX and STI.

"Big deal – Lincoln shares dealerships with Ford these days."
 
Luxury buyers pay more and expect more. Ever been to a Lexus dealer? I used to own a ES300 and a GS400. The service was unbelievable.
 
"I actually liked TL a lot from design point of view, but price always seemed to be ridiculous."
 
The TL has NEVER been what I would call an expensive car. It comes virtually loaded with every usuable option. The car is actually one of the best kept secrets in its segment. Drive one (especially a Type-S) it may suprise you.
 
"Honda is a motorcycle company that also makes cars."
 
Actually Honda is a engine manufacturer who happens to make motorcycles, autos, jets and power equipment.
 
This clip tells you where Honda and Acura are headed.
 
http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/show/1219/extra?play

For same amount money I can buy Infinity of Cadillac. Well may be even slightly used Audi or BMW. And now Acura even looks like generic Asian car. What is so special about Acura? Engine? It is not enough. Acura competes with SAAB and Lincoln IMO.

The TL isnt overpriced compared to the 3 series or C class or CTS. Pricing isnt that cars problem.
 
spy shots are out of the 2009 TL and I dont like what I see so far. It look like a mix between the TSX and the GS350. Yet another Japanese car design that is lacking. Acura needs to dump the buck tooth grille ASAP. Its ironic that they are doing this when so many folks claim they dont like Cadillac's "gaudy" grilles and prefer the understated designs of import brands.

I'll agree that Acura's new stylists are butchers (if you think the '09 TSX is bad, go look at the '09 RL), and that if the company really wants to take sales from Lexus and Infiniti they will need to embrace AWD like Audi has or develop a proper RWD platform.

But I am going to defend the TSX for a minute, partly because I just bought one and am biased, and partly because the little car deserves some protection. Not everyone needs truckloads of horsepower and torque to enjoy the drive. And not everyone wants to take sloppy seconds with someone else's used/abused car.

I bought a 2008 (NOT the '09) Acura TSX because I wanted a small, luxurious 4-door sedan with a manual transmission and a properly tuned suspension and steering system. I did not want to buy another used car (stupid, maybe, but just my decision), and I did not have $41,300 to spend on a BMW 328i, which is how much it would have cost to get a BMW with the same equipment that's on my TSX (genuine leather, premium package, sport suspension, iPod hookup, Xenon HIDs, metallic paint... doesn't sound like much but it adds up in a BMW). The Infiniti G35 is a little bigger than I wanted, and with today's gas prices, I wanted something that returned better fuel mileage. The Lexus IS250 has the worst steering I've ever felt in a sport sedan; utterly sterile, lifeless, and devoid of any sensation or fun. I looked at a Spec.B Legacy GT, but the dealerships in my area weren't nearly as pleasant nor as well-located as the Acura was, and again, the Legacy is a larger vehicle like the G35.

I sacrificed RWD, but I have yet to produce any torque-steer with the TSX, and after thrashing it about and still returning 27mpg, I have no regrets. Needs some good summer tires for these hot southern summers, but other than that I am extremely happy with the vehicle. The interior is gorgeous, the '08s and earlier love the dance on the backroads, and while most Americans still don't understand the idea of a premium, 4-cylinder vehicle, it's a concept I can embrace whole-heartedly.