Edmunds CarPool

I would also choose the Jetta.

I'm still bewildered as to the appeal of the Fortwo, but there's millions of the on the roads of San Diego these days. Still they'll free up a lot of street parking eventually :)
 
Out of the four, I'd take the Jetta too, always fond of that version of the car.

ddastardly,
 
The appeal of the Smart is easy. Style. Statement. Presence. Flavor of the month.
 
And from what this easterner understand about San Diego trendiness, I'm actually surprised that 90% of the registered cars in the area haven't already been traded in on Smarts.
 
Yeah, yeah, I know in an auto enthusiast publication it's not nice to take the American brand too seriously - but considering that in the real world you're going to buy that Focus a LOT cheaper than any of the other three, 37.5 highway looks awful wonderful, and mid 20's city would be bearable (for me at least, my commute is 21 miles each way, mostly on US33).
 
Being non-trendy and not terribly liked by auto writers has it's advantages - for the consumer, anyway.

so how come edmunds has no inside info on the upcoming jetta tdi. VW seems very tight lipped about it.

A lot of people predicted the Focus to do well in this test, so I'll be interested to hear their reactions.
 
The new Jetta should whoop even the Prius, if the gossip is right.

The Focus isn't even a leader in its class.
The Corolla and Civic both get better mileage.
Although you can probably get $10,000 off the Focus or something.

"And from what this easterner understand about San Diego trendiness"......LOL, yeah, SD is like Milan.
 
Speaking as the trendiest guy in San Diego, who regularly coordinates his car to match his surfboard, I agree that non car-savvy people may be buying the ForTwo for Flavor of the Month appeal but, style, statement and presence? C'mon! The only statement this car says to me is "Hey, I'm going to have buyers remorse in about two weeks"

"The only statement this car says to me is "Hey, I'm going to have buyers remorse in about two weeks"
 
It won't take that long, except for those folks capable of super-human self denial when it comes to thinking eveything they buy MUST be the best thing available.

"The Corolla and Civic both get better mileage. "
 
yeah by about 1mpg. Big deal. Arent the civic and corolla rated at 26/35? Hardly a huge advantage over Focus.
 
If I'm not mistaken there is no Jetta diesel for sale right now although one is coming this fall for a yet to be determined price that will be higher than the Prius or Focus.
 
The Focus' city mileage was right where the EPA said it would be so I dont get why its called "terrible". Small cars in that class are rated between 22 and 26mpg in the city so 23.6 is about average for the class. Its only terrible compared to a hybrid.

It's a landslide victory for the Prius, with $53.32 of gas versus the Jetta's $66.66.
Even at highway speeds, the Prius costs less gas money.
The Jetta costs 25% more gas money over the Prius on mixed loop.
 
Throw in super fuel saving conventional cars like the Yaris and Civic, and the competition gets tougher.
 
Now the Prius just needs a redesigned interior that doesn't feel so economy class.

The 2009 Jetta diesel's fuel economy numbers are already up on the fueleconomy.gov website: 30/41 manual, 29/40 automatic. Not incredible numbers by today's standards. Using their annual fuel cost figures, it would be cheaper to drive a Corolla by $108 per year, and a whopping $699 per year cheaper for a Prius. Even the Escape Hybrid is cheaper to drive by $163 per year.
 
Diesels are not going to even get a foothold in this market until diesel prices come down significantly, and diesel mileage goes up. The fuel economy figures of the current and upcoming diesel SUVs that have been revealed are pretty dismal. Add to that the price premium just to get the diesel drivetrain it's a lose-lose situation. Meanwhile, as fuel prices and traffic continue to increase, hybrids will continue to be the shining star of the automotive industry for years and years to come.
 
I just looked up the fuel economy figures for that RX-7 convertible restoration project that I picked up a few months ago. Thank goodness that's not my daily driver (15/23)!

I dont even know why diesel proponents try to argue that they are a superior solution to hybrids. They arent. We should have diesels available in this country but they will never have mass market success.

Cool comparo - numbers don't lie.
 
I too am interested to see how the new Jetta diesel will compare to the Prius and others. I like the Jetta's car/engine/drivetrain combo better than the Prius but it'll be interesting to see a comparo of all the numbers between the two. I have the feeling when MSRP and average cost per gallon of their respective fuels is taken into account.....the timeframe for breakeven and paback may be a ways off for the Jetta.

$700/year is $58 more a month to drive the next Jetta instead of the Prius. For the vastly superior driving dynamics the next Jetta is likely to offer compared to the Prius, that's a bill I'll gladly pay. Before you poo-poo "wasting" $58 a month for better driving dynamics think of what the average premium/luxury car lease costs versus a fully functional mid-size sedan rate. People blow an extra $100-$300 a month on extra driving/premium features all the time.

Absolutely right, fuel costs above 20 mpg is really insignificant.
 
For superior driving dynamics, anything above 20 mpg average is a good choice.
 
Miles per Gallon is inverted, it's hyperbolic. That means higher numbers mean less and less.

"$700/year is $58 more a month to drive the next Jetta instead of the Prius. For the vastly superior driving dynamics the next Jetta is likely to offer compared to the Prius, that's a bill I'll gladly pay."
 
That's why our stable includes a Miata and RX-7 for fun, a Scion xA for the daily long commute, and the Volvo S60 for the boring highway drives. We tried the one-car-fits-all scenario and found that we were always disappointed.
 
But, for those commuters that spend most of their time sitting in stop and go traffic (San Diego during rush hour, any time of day in LA), the Prius is going to be vastly superior. The cost savings will be even more exaggerated, and driving dynamics don't mean anything when you can't even get out of first gear. Now, for those that have commutes with little traffic, something like the Jetta diesel could be the better option. However, I won't consider it until I can tell the Jetta apart from a Corolla without having to look at the badge! (Or when VW reliability joins the 21st century.)

"$700/year is $58 more a month to drive the next Jetta instead of the Prius. For the vastly superior driving dynamics the next Jetta is likely to offer compared to the Prius, that's a bill I'll gladly pay. "
 
What about the cost of the new Jetta? Until you know that its impossible to effectively compare the cost to own the two cars. I doubt the Jetta will be as cheap as the Prius even though it will look better. Since most car loans are 60 months that $58 a month will add up over the course of the car loan. And of course that figure is based on current fuel prices- or at least prices that were current when the chart as made. I'm sure it's more than that now.
 
I'm not a Prius fan but facts are facts. If your main concern is fuel economy its better than the Jetta, especially since most folks have commutes that involve traffic.

I agree with billt9 that mpg is somewhat misleading as an inverted scale. The Euro version of consumption (litres per 100km) makes more sense in that regards.
 
It might not matter to some, but in addition to driving dynamics, the ability to get a VW TDI with a manual is a big plus. I've had a Prius and a Audi A3 with the new 2.0TDI as recent rentals. I got 48mpg with the Prius and 39mpg with the Audi. But the Audi was soooo much more pleasant to drive. I felt the Prius was something of an "appliance."
 
I second Karl's summary. And probably will probably put my money where my mouth is this summer...

Karl, I agree....I would probably pay the extra for the same reasons. The subjective stuff (and performance test results) aside I am just saying it'll be interesting to see the all the hard numbers that go into the equation on paper. What will be a difference between the two be if their average/combined mileage is used with the other costs of ownership (or TCO)?
 
BTW - Sipper and Smackdown in the same title is funny!

Great test... it gives you the numbers you need to come to a unique conclusion based on your own driving patterns.
 
When it comes to mileage alone, it's telling that whenever the Prius didn't win, it was very close. So while the haters do have legitimate reasons to diss the Prius, mileage vs. the TDI isn't one of them.

Don't know what diesel is "supposed" to cost, but don't hold your breath - no reason to think it'll come down soon, especially with more diesel cars coming on the market. It "should" cost more, on a $/BTU basis, anyway. And the only reason the Jetta won a few rounds was they used MPGs instead of $/mile. I shudder to think of what the VW dealers will try to get once they have some diesels - $5k over list, anyone?

For those interested, I get about 38mpg at 75 on the freeway in my 2003 civic between mke and mpls. The city figure is lower than I've ever seen, but I've never driven in Vegas. Anyway, I think the focus is close enough to the corolla/civic/mazda3/cobalt crowd.
 
Personally, I'd take the lower initial cost of any of those, or even a petrol Jetta, over a diesel Jetta or Prius. I'm still having a hard time with "good driving dynamics" and diesel in the same sentence. Perhaps the new Jetta diesel or TSX will change my mind. But if I've learned anything from this article, it's tough to cover the premium of a Hybrid or diesel unless you constantly drive in ultra-congested-urban areas. If I can get a Mazda 3 for six grand less than a prius, well... that's a lot of gas! And the driving dynamics will be better too, which I agree is worth a slight premium.

I think the comparison pounds the last nail in the Smart's coffin for anyone who actually looks at numbers prior to making a car purchase.
 
From my perspective, when you look at mileage, total ownership and operational cost, safety, comfort, utility, driving dynamics, and style, the Smart isn't anywhere close to the top of the heap. Civic, Fit, Prius, Corolla, Jetta, Focus, and 3 all seem to be good choices, depending on which of the attributes you give more weight. But the poor Smart? Sorry, I'll pass - both literally and figuratively. :-)

When driving through the city and you got stopped at a stoplight, did you turn off the engines of the cars that are not named Prius? It would be interesting to see how much real-world gas savings it can bring. I'll turn off my engine if I know I'm going to be stuck idling at a red light for 3 minutes.

m_thrizzle, I'm not sure the extra wear on your starter motor is worth it. Maybe that's only an issue on older cars??
 
In any case, I've been pretty excited about the TDI Jetta Sportwagen, but those numbers from fueleconomy.gov are on the disappointing side. At least they are after hearing all the rumors talking about 50 mpg combined. Still, I'd take it over a Prius any day of the week.

i'm sorry karl, but thats 700 dollars a year, over 5 years is 3500 grand.
 
and while a priuis starts at 22k, the report is the jetta will be around 25,000k
 
so grand total = 6500kmore over 5 years, or about 100 dollars a month more for the jetta.
 
its not worth THAT much more then the car. and I was considering the TDI. But its epa rating is nothing short of an EPIC FAIL

That's true for the new TDI.
 
But you can still find certified used Jetta TDIs. So you get new car experience in terms of warranty coverage and diesel mileage (give or take 40 mpg) for $17,000. Now you're getting $5,000 off the price of a Prius, which will take FOREVER to get back in terms of superior fuel mileage in the Prius.

If we're getting that specific though, I could come back and say that a used last-generation Jetta - presumably out of warranty - will come with some additional costs of its own.
 
In its favor, it has better driving dynamics. I'm not sure it actually looks better than the Prius, since the Jetta has a door profile too similar to the Dacia Logan and I like guppies. I'm not sure the interior is actually nicer, (I think the Prius's looks great, even if it's hard plastic). The Jetta is cramped whereas the Prius isn't. And finally, while Prius drivers have a negative reputation, Jetta drivers do too (as bad drivers, usually teenage girls).
 
If you put a gun up to my head and made me choose, it'd still be the Jetta TDI for me just because of those driving dynamics. But I can't get into the "TDI is God's gift to Prius haters" mentality that seems to be so common on car forums.

Shame you didn't have a diesel Smart. You likely wouldn't have chosen it as your favourite but it would have easily won the mpg. 60 to 75 mpg seems to be normal from those I talk to.
 
Other then that, everything came out as I expected.....the TDI won on the hwy, the Prius won around town and the Focus was cheap to buy.

"m_thrizzle, I'm not sure the extra wear on your starter motor is worth it. Maybe that's only an issue on older cars??"
I fell victim to this when performing the "homemade hybrid" maneuver for about a week. However, the SR20DE was known to have a strong possibility of start failure over 100K, and I was at about 175k. I guess now that I put a "new" starter in it I should try again for those fuel savings?
  
"In any case, I've been pretty excited about the TDI Jetta Sportwagen, but those numbers from fueleconomy.gov are on the disappointing side."
Keep in mind, I think even the new EPA ratings might not be very fair to diesels. Anyone have insight on this?

^supposdly if you read the documents when they released the new mpg ratings, they say diesels milage maybe underreported by up to 18%..
 
so my geuss is the actual millage will be between what they list on the door, and 18% more.
 
But who knows, that 18% more was based on diesels without all this new air cleaning equipment, and no one knows what effect that will have on real performance.
 
I do know its hard to get balance facts from TDI fans, because most are in the diesel in the solution to everything camp.

The testing was informative, but I seriously doubt a shopper is going to turn down any car that averages over 30mpg for another because of a 3-4mpg difference. Once you're talking over 30mpg, those small differences are negligible in the eyes of consumers (except hypermilers).
 
The sad thing is consumers can buy a used car from the 80's or 90's and easily beat all 4 of these both in mileage and cost.

bbechtel16; Hey my starter in my SR20DE is starting to make weird sounds. What should I expect repair wise? Oh and on topic; It's too bad that Smart wasn't a diesel because it really makes no sense to buy it with these numbers. Driving dynamics is important to me and the Prius I drove felt like driving a washing machine so...

I can't believe people actually compare the automatic-only crapmobile Pruis to a real car (Jetta). Take that Prius and repeat the test in severe winter weather -- the tables will surely turn. If you live in South California, actually like driving an automatic (yuk), don't take long trips and care nothing about having fun while driving -- by all means, go ahead and buy the Toyota. To me it's just not a real car.

vvk, not a real car? are you the one pushing for a 10 dollar gas tax? the prius is the car that would make it under a 10 dollar gas tax.

"The sad thing is consumers can buy a used car from the 80's or 90's and easily beat all 4 of these both in mileage and cost."
 
+1! We can thank the obsession with safety, eliminating NVH, horsepower, ever growing vehicle size, and even with chassis rigidity for the vehicular obesity that is mostly to blame for this.
 
Benson:
I developed a dead spot on the starter, which I discovered stopped at a busy intersection, fortunately late at night. I replaced the starter myself, and it must not have been too bad because I didn't have to drag my dad into the repair :-)
 
Check out this writeup on b15sentra.net regarding replacing the starter.

"But you can still find certified used Jetta TDIs"
 
That'd be an interesting test. How about a TCO smakdown on 3 year old cars? The cars that have a low resale value would suddenly look like good deals, when buying used.

I just did a search for CPO jetta tdi buy me.
 
within 100 miles found 3.
a stick @ 24k
a auto @ 26k
and didn't look to clost @19k with nearly 60k miles.
 
unless your able to get this for like 30% below asking price, that NUTS.

I would think that the smart would be the best overall package with the tiny diesels that the europeans have. comine that with a true 5 cog manual and that car would be easily pushing 60-75 mpg and would be great because it would have low-end torque which a city car needs. keep the the price well under 20k and now you are talking for a city run-a-bout!!! I thought it was funny that the Smart car which is supposed to be a small fuel-effecient and inexpensive car requires fuel that 20-25 cents more per gallon... is the premium fuel really that necessary?

"is the premium fuel really that necessary?"
 
The compression ratio is only 10:1, so no. You will take a performance hit and maybe a mpg hit if you run 87, but the engine won't blow up or anything like that.
 
I want the diesel version, too, but CARB and the EPA are keeping it out for now. Keep a candle lit for the forthcoming Bluetec version (the current diesel is a carryover from the old model).

I think the 2009 Jetta which has received the 30/41 EPA ratings is 50 state emissions compliant. About those ratings - I know the new 2008 rating system seems to do a much better job at predicting real mileage on hybrids and gasoline powered cars, but based on the 'MPG estimates fron drivers like you' database on fueleconomy.gov, it doesn't do a very good job of predicting diesels. Looking at all diesel entries with 10 or greater sample size, it underpredicts by 10-40%, on average 23%. 23% is HUGE, greater than the cost delta between gas and diesel fuel. It would be nice if consumers had accurate info before making their purchase. I know the that the numbers on the sticker are an 'adjusted' value, not the 'un-adjusted' Lab result from running the FTP tests. Maybe the constants in the equations that get you from unadjusted to adjusted are not appropriate for diesels.

yeah I think that the diesel's get underestimated by the EPA... mainly because easy driving in diesel's pay's off huge. Take the Grand Cherokee Diesel and MB SUV Diesels for example. The Grand Cherokee is rated at like 17/23 I think or maybe a little higher but here of people getting a consistent low to mid 20's in those things. Same goes for the MB diesels.

How did the Prius handle the Death Valley grades? The fuel economy didn't slump during the back road session but I bet it was wheezing its battery depleted heart out.
  
Right now Carmax only has one last gen TDI Jetta for $14,998 with 72k. Its interesting that you can buy the new body style with the old TDI engine but it gets slightly worse fuel economy. On another note they have a few of the rare TDI Touaregs so if you have $50k and need some stumps pulled, go for it.

In my area, the 06 TDI Jettas aren't worth it. There is one selling for 21k, and 2 others selling for $27,000! Luckilly, a biodiesel pum opened up by my house less than a month ago! I'd love to get a diesel Jetta, but only ifit has "PD" and preferebly the MKV.
 
I honestly don't like the prius. Think of it like a cordless phone. Eventually it doesn't hold electricity as long then its time to replace the battery... Some people are shocked by spending $10 on a new phone battery($30 if its a cell phone)! Imagine the price of the car's battery...
 
I wonder if the smart diesel will come?
-Cj

excellent article and the type of comparo that really addresses all the "consumer knowledge" that is spread about the assumptions on how fuel efficient a vehicle is.
 
The only disappointment is that some popular fuel efficient models were not addressed that could have done, imo, much better- for example,
-Scion Xd
-Honda Fit
 
regardless, great article