Edmunds CarPool

Drag racing a Jag? Isn't that driving in an environmentally incorrect manner? Doesn't that get your driver's license suspended in California? Or at least a nasty talking to from Barbara Streisand (who knows better about how you're supposed to live than you do)?
 
Nice to know the Prius is a nice, comfortable, boring automobile. All it needs is some Buick nameplates.

The Prius is a focused machine but there is plenty wrong with it. I got to drive one a few months back. I already knew it was ugly but I didnt know the interior is full of hard plastics, the steering was sloppy, the gas engine sounds like an OHV V6 from 20 years ago and the rear visibility was terrible. If all you care about is mileage it is the car to get without question. From a styling and driving perspective the car is a dud. I can't believe any "enthusiast" would honestly say this is a car they would like to drive. The Prius is a mediocre car that gets outstanding mileage. Its about as compromised as high peformance exotic coupe that is only concerned about looking good and going fast.

1487 said "I already knew it was ugly"
 
So you went in with a pre set mind to thrash the car anyway. You would've probably gone the other way if the very same car was a GM/Ford/Chrysler make. What a hypocrite ... very unAmerican like
 
Karl,
 
Great post and a fantastic picture too! I couldn't agree more with you. The Prius has zero -ve points but my only motivation to buy one is the gas prices ... I can live with $4 or heck even $6 but once it gets above that I NEED a Prius and by then I am sure the Prius would've reached the $30K price range.

It's very boring. My mother-in-law owns one. I despise driving it (and miss her Civic Hybrid which as more communicative). We kid anytime we see a person under 60 driving a Prius as we know so many retirees with one. Just had an unintentional shiver...that car seems to indicate oldness is near.

did you take it up an extended grade? The TTAC took one up a longer hill, and once the battery assit died, the cars ~70hp, could barely keep moving

This car holds zero attraction to me. I would buy a Honda Fit for fuel economy and practicality without a second thought. Given the diffrence in cost, the payback would be equal or better even with worse fuel economy and I would enjoy the ride. The Prius sells well for one reason only: it is currently the only game in town.

"So you went in with a pre set mind to thrash the car anyway. You would've probably gone the other way if the very same car was a GM/Ford/Chrysler make. What a hypocrite ... very unAmerican like "
 
The car's styling speaks for itself. You havent been paying attention if your position is that I priase the styling of every american car. The Sebring is one of the ugliest cars on the road today. Japanese brands make more bland or unisightly cars than European or American automakers but that hardly means that EVERY American car is attractive. Just stick to the topic at hand.
 
"The Prius sells well for one reason only: it is currently the only game in town."
 
exactly. And the great efficiency of the car overshadows its mediocrity in all other measures.
 
"The Prius, by contrast, is relatively fast, stable, confident...."
 
I believe 0-60 for this car is over 10 secs which is slow in today's world. Most auto equipped compact cars are faster than that. Most minivans are faster than that.

"The Prius sells well for one reason only: it is currently the only game in town."
 
???
 
There a lots of cars that get great mileage. How can it be the only game?
 
Any VW TDI
Civic (hybrid or not)
Yaris
Corolla
Smart
Mini
etc
 
If you spend most of your time in the city with stop and go driving, then the Prius is the best. 0 to 60 doesn't matter as you always go with the flow of traffic which is always slow.

Firstwagon: I meant the only hybrid with significant fuel economy gains in the sub 25K price level. Sorry I didn't make that clear. In Florida we can't buy the Nissan Altima Hybrid which I do believe is competitive even though it's fuel gains are less than the Prius.

"Even if they died tomorrow, how many of you keep your cars for over 4 years and/or 50,000 miles?"
 
I'd guess that most of your readers do.
 
The overwheming majority of people I know buy their cars new and keep them more than 10 years and 100,000 miles. Like you, I live in car happy SoCal. Unlike you, I don't work for an automotive magazine.

Karl, if it is about saving money and gas heck why mess with that. In reality for any people out there some times "mediocre cars" sale. Good examples "PRIUS, FOCUS, YARIS, AVEO" they have hard plastic and things we don't like yada yada.. If you want a better car with better styling, power etc buy it!

The company I work for has us use a "limo" service that is based on a fleet of Prius'es. It is always easy to spot my ride when coming out of the airport to the limo parking area - a sea of black Town Cars and a lone Prius. A couple of points: According to the owner, the cars are holding up well in this brutal usage environment. I find the interiors roomy but as cheap looking as any car I've been in. And some of the drivers beat the heck out of them - I've seen less than 30 mpg average on the displays and have also ridden in a Prius going 100 mph - not a great experience.
  
BTW, I agree with Auchkarl - most people I know keep their cars for far more than 4 years.

^my car: currently 111k miles, 8 years

We've had my daily driver for six years and my wife's for seven. To be fair, though, we're considering playing the every-three-year game for a while once we replace our current rides. The more gadgets and gizmos we get on a car, the more likely I'm going to want to replace it before the warranty expires.
 
Then again, remember that the Prius' hybrid components are warranted for eight years or 100,000 miles.
 
As for actually buying one, no way. I live in suburbia, spend way too much time on the highway, and am tired of Toyota dealers. I'm anxiously awaiting the TDI Sportwagen and Subie's boxer diesel.

When you have a small-engined car, like a Prius, you have to drive differently - you don't normally race E-Jags; you let them get ahead of you as you sit in the right lane at or under the limit. You know going in, that speeding up on-ramps is not possible - again, you let those who have chosen to spend their $$ on faster, thirstier vehicles, get ahead of you. The only fun in such a perfectly functional car is hypermiling. So what? It's a choice.

"The Prius has zero -ve points but my only motivation to buy one is the gas prices ... I can live with $4 or heck even $6 but once it gets above that I NEED a Prius....."
 
My thoughts exactly! You couldn't have said it better, Tiruvan! And that center-mounted instrument cluster bugs me......I guess I'd go for a Civic Hybrid or wait for the Chevy Volt if I wanted/needed a hybrid.
 
Karl, I think only very few people change their cars every four years.....afterall, the typical new car financing plan is 60 months. I think most people would consider a new car after 6 years.......when they've paid for the old one and driven it debt-free for about a year.

Actually, the Prius is the only game in town if screaming at the top of your lungs, "Look at me, I'm environmentally correct" is important. There are other alternatives (Civic, Altima, etc.)
 
By the way, Thursday's Wall Street Journal had an interesting article about the actual payback time of all the hybrids on the road. That big Lexus is something like 98 years (giggle).

The Prius is in a lot of demand for exactly the reasons you posted. So much demand that my local dealer with posted internet prices is charging 2K over MSRP and the cheapest one on the lot is 26K before TTL. With leather and a decent stereo they want 30 grand.
 
No one will argue with you that it isn't a better car than garbage like the Yaris, the Smart, the Caliber.
 
But is it a better car than a loaded Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Mazda 3, etc. with $10,000 in up front savings sitting on the hood? At 50mpg instead of 30, that's about 200,000 miles to break even.
 
Other than the intangible 'look at me I care more about the planet than you do' factor, I don't see how it's even close.

Where do all the batteries go once they do die? Its not so easy as out of site out of mind, Karl.

With options the Prius isnt a value if your highest concern is saving money. Even at 45mpg it doesnt make sense to buy a $25k Prius over a $18k civic or corolla. No one other than Honda has announced a dedicated hybrid model so the Prius isnt going to have any significant competition for a while. I would say its only a matter of time before the Prius starts to erode Camry and Avalon sales though. Not only the Prius beat other company's cars in mileage, it beats other Toyotas in mileage.

The Prius has good mileage and lots of high tech features for the money (much like a Mazda3). I don't any other positive attributes to the car. It's ugly, slow, the engine is very buzzy and unrefined when power is requested and it's ugly- opps, did I already mention that?
 
I've rode shutgun in this car before but never got behind the wheel. My brother demonstrated the super light lifeless steering and anemic performance. However as a commuter car, it's hard to ignore it's vitrue.

I think Karl overlooks the obvious point that anyone who actually buys their own cars (not collectibles, real cars) would know after a few go-rounds of car ownership. The point is that resale value is important.
 
Just because YOU don't keep the vehicle past 50,000 miles and won't have to deal with a potentially very expensive battery pack replacement, etc, it doesn't mean others are stupid enough to buy your disaster at the point where it's about to have a huge repair cost.
 
This is all factored into resale value. That price premium for the hybrid is one thing. When they start failing in large numbers a used Prius with 80,000 miles will become a car you can barely give away. Why? Because the type of buyer who goes for a 5 y/o economy car with high miles is unlikely to have a few thousand laying around for a repair like that.
 
Unless a new industry of "battery pack loans" arises, you're unlikely to get top dollar for this type of vehicle once the fad novelty is gone.
 
I'd also wonder about the added complexity affecting repair costs down the line.
 
The Prius isn't alone here. The value of a '98 BMW 540i drops like a rock at 90-100K miles, which is when potential buyers realize that the cost of a transmission or engine starts approaching the value of the vehicle as a whole.
 
So this is probably still a fashion statement more than a sound financial decision. At some point ($5? $10/gal?) it will be a slam dunk, but we're not likely there yet.

None of my friends with year 2001 Priuses have had problems yet at eight years of age. They don't have as many miles as the taxis that are well past 200k, but they've done well. I expect the second generation batteries will last even longer than those, and once they're done they'll be recycled anyway.
 
But the real genius behind the Prius is that it appeals to people who would normally only buy cars twice the price. That's a rare thing.

"...how many of your keep your cars for over 4 years and/or 50,000 miles?"
 
Hm. Currently my longest lasting car has been in my possession for 4 years. It is an 8 year old car, though.
 
Also, I do understand the Prius bashing that occurs frequently. I must say I think both sides are too extreme. No, the Prius is not the end-all solution owners sometimes think they are. Nor are all Prius drivers the bane of the road. As Karl states, I think it's a perfectly adequate mode of transportation.

Estraka, in your case you bought the car used. I doubt I'll keep my car for longer than 4/5 years myself...but I bought my car used too: it was already 4 years old. I'm yet to own a new car.
 
But I'm talking of someone who buys new cars.......unless the car tends to be terribly unreliable or (all of a sudden) not meet the driver's needs anymore, very few people would replace their new car after 4 years. After all, it takes 5 years to finish paying for a new car......and I reckon anyone would like to enjoy at least a year of no payments before considering a new car!
 
Carlisimo, to add to what you said, I also think that fears of hybrid unreliability/longevity are exaggerated.....although I suspect they wouldn't be as robust as ICE-only cars. Computers, TVs, stereos, etc routinely last 10 years and more and I can't imagine why a hybrid car wouldn't last as long. And since hybrids like the Prius and the Tahoe Hybrid can run on the ICE alone, should the battery go kaput, these cars would/should function as regular ICE-only cars! (In the case of the Prius, though, it would be woefully underpowered, but it would still work!)

Low rent Prius interior.
 
The Civic Hybrid's blue interior is luxurious compared to this budget mess. But the Civic can't beat the Prius hatchback utility.

Wow Karl is caught being extremely out of touch with the real world driver.
50,000 miles and dump the car? Wow. Luxury upper class neighborhood.

When I bought used cars I replaced them every 2-3 years. With new cars I do not see a point to replace car after 4 years and esp after 50k miles. For modern car even 100K miles is nothing - it is practically fresh new car with another 100K no problem miles and a good ride replace shocks and some other suspension parts and also consider preventively replacing water-pump around 120K miles (unless it is VW – at VW anything can break anytime). New car is a new car – you KNOW that you took a good care of your car and it is the best used car you can buy - so why to sell?
 
There is nothing wrong with Prius except it is still a Toyota.

I must be unusual, I like the current Prius styling, and find it vastly more interesting than any other current Toyota (or Lexus or Scion). I've only driven a first-gen one though.
 
On the subject of how long people keep cars, I think Karl is out of touch. The only car in the last 20 years I've had for less than 6 years are a VW Golf which was bought back by VW after 11 miserable months, and my wife's current Forester XT which is still only 18 months old - we'll be keeping that a good long time.

Wasn't there an article here (Edmunds, not Karl) a while back that said the average person keeps their car 8 to 9 years?
 
Personally, I prefer a car have low resale value. It means I can get a good deal on a used one. Dunno about used hybrids, yet...

I've googled for average length of car ownership and can't find anything. Does anyone have actual statistics instead of their own experiences?
 
And let me add to my above comment by saying I'd be pretty darn interested in a 335d as well. I know diesels aren't a panacea, but I think a sporty, fuel-efficient wagon in oil-burner form is a far more reasonable (and exciting) proposition than a Prius. More power, more space, way more fun, still great fuel mileage.

Mom still has her 1992 Dodge stealth with 178k miles in addition to her 2003 Z4 w/43k miles. Bought new after hurricane andrew in Jan of 1993 and used in 2007 w/32k miles.
 
Dad 2003 Expedition w/60k miles bought used in 2006 w/ 45k miles
Step Mom 2004 Explorer w/80k miles new in 2004
Sis 2000 Millenia w/ 130k miles used in 2003 w/16k miles
Me 1995 Accord w/119k miles used in 2006 w/ 113k miles
 
So far Karl is mostly right. Mom had a kia, navigator, miata, ES300, and RX300 since she bought the dodge stealth and is finally happy(until she replaces the run-flats...)
 
Step mom wants an 08Lincoln MKX or E320CDI/Bluetec
Dad wants a diesel expedition but otherwise content
Sis wants 08 Jetta TDI or 08 Prius
I want a MKV Jetta or Rabbit (personally a TDI)
 
Most of our vehicles get many miles within the 5years and as you can see, Fuel economy is on our minds for a new car purchase.
-Cj

I believe most USA consumers buy a new car every 5 - 10 years. That's a large spread and I don't know the percentage per year but it's not out of line to say many people buy/lease new cars every 5 years.
I'm sure these slower economic times cause people to keep their cars longer (not counting those switching for fuel reasons)

In February, I traded in my 2006 Volvo XC90 for a 2008 Scion xD. I looked at all the hybrids, too, but at the time, it just didn't make sense. Gas prices have shot up since then, but I am still better off on the money side by getting the xD with standard equipment over a Prius. I average 32 mpg on the same exact drive that Karl has. Comparing that to a 50 mpg Prius, with gas at $5/gal., and driving 550 miles/wk, it would take me 6 years to make back a $10K difference and 8 years to make back a $13K difference, which is more realistic.

"Comparing that to a 50 mpg Prius, with gas at $5/gal., and driving 550 miles/wk, it would take me 6 years to make back a $10K difference ..."
 
You will make you money back though.... and you gain other advantages such as wasting 2000 less gallons of gas, not adding as much to pollution, reducing the dependance on foreign oil, shielding yourself against future jumps in the gas prices (what if it hits $10.00 a couple years from now?), getting to drive in car pool lanes (if you live in an area that has that), etc.
 
Even if the dollar value comes out the same and you don't care about the rest, one last point....
 
....I would rather send the extra $10,000 to Toyota then to the oil companies.

Gas will not hit $10.00.
That's what E85 competition is for. There will be a point where price of gas equals E85, and would be price capped to compete with E85.
 
E85 is $3.60/gal.
E85 gives you 74% the miles per gallon compared to 87 octane gas.
 
That caps 87 octane gas at $4.86/gal.

It won't hit $10.00 in this spike but what about the next one?
 
Why do you think E85 won't go up?
 
E85's 15 minutes of fame have come and gone. We've seen what it's doing to the world price of food and public opinion will not allow any significant expansion in the production of E85.