Nice. I get 17 years if we trade in our Yukon XL for a Honda Odyssey. Or, if I'm still hung up on the whole minivan image thing and sqeeze my family into an Acadia, it jumps to 33.5 years.
 
Sheer stupidity.

ahightower,
 
You dont need a large vehicle so just trade in your Yukon for a Fit or Yaris. Many folks say if you're not towing there is no need for anything bigger than a compact car.
 
The media is propagating this notion that folks are "trading" in large SUvs for compacts simply because small car sales are up this year. What no one mentions is that overall sales are DOWN which means that the number of small cars being sold isnt makng up for all the pickups and SUVs that are not selling. Sure people are buying more small cars but that doesnt mean that increase is directly related to SUV trade ins.

I know. Shame on me for being so wasteful. Why didn't I just buy an A3 or a "behemoth" 3-series wagon? That should have been enough... I could be saving literally tens of dollars a month on gas, which would almost cover a typical preachy liberal's Starbucks tab. I'll go repent and for my penance say ten Hail Mini's ... on earth as it is in Europe.

"I'll go repent and for my penance say ten Hail Mini's ... on earth as it is in Europe."
 
MINIs rule.

"I'll go repent and for my penance say ten Hail Mini's ... on earth as it is in Europe."
Nice one, I may use it.

"MINIs rule."
 
No argument here. The Yukon is our family car. I'd love to have a Mini for myself as a commuter. I seriously considered a used one, but we have three kids and although we'll rarely cram all five of us into my car I did want that fifth seatbelt just in case, so I got a compact sedan (Mazda3).
 
The point is, there may be some single people that were driving big SUV's and could save a bundle going from one extreme to the other (H2 to Yaris). But most families are not going to downsize that drastically. Going from a midsize sedan to a hybrid, or a big SUV or truck to a medsize SUV or truck is not enough of a difference to justify on fuel savings alone.

Good article in today's Dallas Morning News about "Hybrid Hysteria": http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/0630dnbusprius.434d2ad.html

You should add the cost of insurance, too -- shouldn't be too hard with Edmunds' Total-Cost-of-Ownership database. And also financing rates.
 
I actually did this calculation last week, in part because my bank was offering a screaming deal on new car loans. But I came to the conclusion that unless the insurance was $300 cheaper by 6-month premium, it wasn't worth it.
 
I agree that there is a difference between conserving oil/ the planet and conserving $$. While not a gas-guzzler, my 21.5mpg long-term average for my Forester XT isn't exactly the most efficient choice for daily driving. But we only need one vehicle, as my wife either bikes or takes metro to work...

Gas prices aren't going to make me trade in my vehicle. But when it's time for a new vehicle (probably next year), I'm more likely to take fuel efficiency into account. I suspect I'm not alone.
 
In any case, buying a new car is not just good for my ego; it's good for the economy.

More important than what you drive is how you drive. Let off the gas a bit.
 
Personally, I'm glad there are so many folks caught up in the hysteria. The fewer SUVs on the road, the better. It keeps road repair costs down, saves literal tons of gas, and I feel a lot safer.
 
I should point out that a lot of folks are indeed just changing their driving habits. I've noticed a lot of slow SUVs on the roads lately. Kind of aggravating, really.

ewilfong- I'm with you. Its hard not to look at mpg's. Sorry thats the truth. Esspically when you look long term. A mspd3 costs ~6k more then a fit for just gas+insurance over 5 years. or roughly 100 dollars more a month.. and thats not even going towards the car.
 
Put it this way:
 
over 5 years, the mpsd3 will cost ~5k more just to gas up.
 
now if gas was a cheap 2.5 when the speed3 first came up. That difference was 2k..
 
sad in way.

This is how I look at it....Buying any kind of car is a bad business move, from any stand point, and the way people treat their cars they wont be any pay-off or savings anytime soon or at ALL...

People who hate the hybrid hype tend to overstate the importance of driving style. I've had old econobox beaters in which I simply could not get worse than 30mpg no matter how hard I tried, and I've had cars in which 30mpg is out of reach. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try it, but let's not get carried away!
 
It's worth taking a closer look at the "miles driven per year" number too. If it's a small number, buying a Prius isn't going to help you nor the earth... but some people drive a LOT. They're usually too quick to dismiss any possibility of reducing that number, as if such things are set in stone. In other financial matters, that's how people go into debt... you have to question everything you do. (Assuming you're actually trying to save; if you don't need to and don't want to, that's fine until you start whining.)

"More important than what you drive is how you drive"
 
I wish. I'd sell our Civic and get a Yukon and just hypermile it around town, getting the 35mpg I'm used to.
 
Really Ewilfong is right on. I won't do anything until it's time for a new car, and then I'll be weary to buy anything larger than a 4-banger.

"Personally, I'm glad there are so many folks caught up in the hysteria. The fewer SUVs on the road, the better. It keeps road repair costs down, saves literal tons of gas, and I feel a lot safer. "
 
What proof is there that there are less SUVs on the road? As far as I can tell people are still driving their SUVs. Less large SUVs are being purchased but the roads are still full of SUVs and crossovers. Remember, much of this big "downsizing" movement involves people going from "gas guzzling" Explorers (14mpg) to "car like" crossovers such as the Edge and Pilot (16mpg) so dont believe the hype.
 
I agree that most people will simply look for more efficient options when they get their next vehicle. If you are driving an SUV now that next move may be a wagon, hybrid/diesel SUV or crossover. I doubt its going to be a Prius or Civic.
 
driving style is over hyped by many folks. You may be able to gain 5% or lose 5% relative to EPA sticker mileage by driving in a certain way but you are not going to get 25mpg in the city in a V6 no matter how you drive nor will you be able to coax a Tahoe into getting 18mpg in the city.

Interesting someone would make a calculator that works out how long it takes to get a car for free. I've heard market hype about products that will "pay for themselves" but the right choice of car really will.
 
If I bought a new car that gets the same mileage as my current one, it would never pay back.
 
As long as you buy a car that you are happy with, you will be getting a car for free in the end (as opposed to keeping your old car and paying the extra to the oil companies).
 
The calculator doesn't take into account how much the price of gas will rise over the life of the car either.
 
When I changed the price from $4.25 to $6.00 (what we are paying now in Canada), the payback for buying a Fit and trading my old Legacy dropped from 235 to 167 months. Going to $8.00 dropped it to 125 months.
 
I wouldn't trade my car just to save gas but when it's time to trade, it's the way to go. It's also a good reason to trade sooner then you might normally.
 
Just wait though until thing go back to more normal in the fall and the gas prices drop and the over reaction fades a bit.

"Just wait though until thing go back to more normal in the fall and the gas prices drop and the over reaction fades a bit."
 
You think gas prices are going to drop?

Some have eluded to this but I think a key variable that is missing from this calculator is that eventually you're going to have to replace your vehicle anyway. I'm not sure the best way to do it but maybe have it assume you're replacing the vehicle in question now vs. waiting x years to replace it. Ugh, there are A LOT of variable and unknowns. You really can't fully make this sort of decision solely from the spreadsheet unless you have a clear current vehicular plan vs. proposed for the next several years and can guarantee your car won't get smashed.

Let me preface this by saying I'm irritated with the phenomenon of rising Prius smugness correlating with rising gas prices.
 
However...
 
Why is it that after gas started hanging around a national average of $3.50 a gallon and upwards, people were talking about fuel economy being a factor to consider in a purchase? I'm honestly mystified. For as long as I've been driving my vehicle choices have always been cheap, practical and economical. Many times, I've been accused of driving like a grandfather, but my trip odometer always did the laughing for me.
 
As a result of my miserly approach to driving/vehicles, gas prices have done little to affect my bank account since I'm already doing everything I can to keep the impact to a minimum. The only real effect is a tendency for me to feel outraged at the state of prices, even though they're not impacting me in any significant way. However, it's the priniciple of the matter that gets my goat. Hearing stories about people unable to even drive to work makes me pretty upset.
 
Anyway, to sum it up, I'm mystified by people who have never previously considered a vehicle's fuel economy as a purchasing point. Now everyone is talking about it as if they've stumbled upon some magical, revelationary truth that was hidden in the human genome or something. I don't care if gas is even $1.00 a gallon - just because a resource may be cheap an abundant at a point in time is no excuse to waste it. Everyone who had failed to see that is now forced to make a difficult transition that a number of people out there had already made a part of their daily lifestyle.
 
Maybe I just think all the hemming and hawing about the whole "What is this...fuel economy you speak of?" thing is an insult to most people's intelligence, including mine.
 
On a side note, that's a really cool tool, Edmunds. It helps people put a tangible number on why people need to relax and rething their trade-in decision.

^alot of people just dont think. as long as gas was cheap, the suv could never be big enough.
 
also when you spent 600-700 dollars a month just on the car note, that, 300 or so dollar gas bill was nothing. now that the gas bill is almost as much as you are paying for the car, its a wake up call.

Exactly, 12k/year at 12 mpg and $1/gallon is less than $100/month. At $4/gallon you're starting to talk real money. That's how we got in this mess - $1/gallon is negligible for many, regardless of mileage.
 
Also, these calculators oversimplify things- -as other said, it's not a 'now or never' decision, it's more usually a 'this year or next year' kind of thing.

"As a result of my miserly approach to driving/vehicles, gas prices have done little to affect my bank account ...."
 
I think you have missed a critical piece of the cost equation; it's not just the fuel you buy, but the cost of fuel for shipping and transporting goods and services you consume, the umbrella for cost increases in natural gas, and other fuels used to generate electricity, the increased costs to farmers, etc. The cost effects, touch more than the cost of commute to work, or vacation, or the Sunday afternoon pleasure drive.

This is misleading for many reasons. Why?
 
First, you are comparing buying a new car against keeping a used car. Therefore much of the difference in cost is due to the upgrade from a 2004 to a 2008 model. You can do this calculation of going from a 2004 Malibu to a 2008 Malibu and get the same result: stick with the 2004 until the end of time.
 
Why are you getting this result? You exclude repair costs which are likely to keep increasing as the 2004 ages. There are many other reasons people get new cars as well (looks, reliability, features etc.)
 
It is much more relevant to compare a 2004 Malibu against a comparably priced car. For instance, compare the 2004 Malibu against a 2003 Civic. Repair costs are likely to be roughly the same as is depreciation (sure the Civic is likely to be a bit cheaper). This is a much more realistic proposition than going from a 2004 to a new Prius.
 
Also the average driver puts many more miles on his/her car. If your wife drove the average distance you'd be down to 17.5 years. If you start comparing similarly priced cars, this number will go down even more. You do have a point about losing the dealer spread when you change cars (the difference between trade-in value and dealer price), but this amount is much smaller than the difference between the used price of the Malibu and the new Prius.

"You think gas prices are going to drop?"
 
You don't?
 
Of course they will drop. There's little to substain this amount of rise.
 
A lot of people say they will just go up at this rate forever... the same people that said house prices will just keep rising forever, dot com share prices will keep doubling ... etc.
 
The price of gas has shot up and then settled back down more times then I can count since the 70's (when I learned to drive and started caring about the price of gas).
 
It will always average out higher in the long run but a spike (by definition) has to go down.
 
My guess is another month to 6 weeks (depending on hurricanes) before it starts going back towards where it was a last fall or winter.

firstwagon - yes short term, they might drop.
 
long term? I doubt it, I read that china is now buying ~10million cars a year, with 15%!!!l. yoy growth.
 
the american market is now ~15million cars a year. China should be beating us in 3 years.
 
While a slight temp down turn might happen... esspically if the dollar corrects. the long term 5+ year trend will be higher gas costs rather then cheaper.

Yes, I agree that this calculator is slightly misleading. The assumption that I'm going to keep my car forever is not correct.
 
Everyone faces a loss when they replace one vehicle with another. The initial hit of the purchase price is a big one, every one knows this, but these SUV-to-hybrid-panic-shoppers tend to forget it because they are blinded by the MPG advantage.
 
Hummer owners must be feeling uncomfortable right now. The only reason why they bought them was for style. There is no reason to buy one now.

"First, you are comparing buying a new car against keeping a used car. Therefore much of the difference in cost is due to the upgrade from a 2004 to a 2008 model."
 
Agreed, that's the point. But people are doing this (or at least considering this) -- trading in a fully functional 2-4 year-old-vehicle for a new one, just to "save" money on gas. Rarely will that actually work.
 
Also, while the 2004 Malibu won't run trouble-free forever, it's still running fine after four years (except for the screwy steering that can't be fixed because it's a design flaw).
 
Also don't foget that many cars have very long warranties. If you have a 2005 Hyundai your long-term repair costs will remain low, at least until you pass 10 years or 100,000 miles.

"ong term? I doubt it, I read that china is now buying ~10million cars a year, with 15%!!!l. yoy growth."
 
Actually I said it would always average up, just not at this rate.
 
I'm not as concerned about China as lot of people are. The Chinese are buying a lot more cars but they are also spending countless billions on public transportation... some the US (and Canada) is not doing. Plus the Chinese government has the clout to get people to use them.
 
The cities will quickly become grid locked if everyone there drove like they do here and the Chinese are a very efficent people. They will use whatever works best.
 
Judging by the Chinese I know, they will likely still own a car as a status symbol but it won't be driven much.
 
The truth is China, India and the middle east are just excuses the speculators use to shift the blame for high oil and gas prices away from them and onto someone else.... and all market bubbles burst.

According to the calculator there is no reason for me to sell my 1990 940 SE Volvo Wagon for a Prius.

Gas will definitely drop, but I don't think it will ever go back to less than $2.50 a gallon due to international pressures. With high oil and gas prices, everyone who can is scrambling to increase production, while many drivers are driving more conservatively, driving less, buying more fuel efficient vehicles, and otherwise reducing the amount of fuel consumed. If you look at a graph of oil cost, it mirrors other previous speculative bubbles: dot com, real estate, etc.

In the end, it comes down to economics 101: increased supply + reduced demand = falling prices.

That calculator needs more work. It's leaving out a lot of important factors. While gas savings is important, it's only one thing to consider. I'm sure you know this already, so your calculator should reflect that to avoid leading buyers astray.

1. It doesn't account for the mileage and remaining life on your current vehicle vs a fuel sipping substitute.

2. It doesn't account for added repair costs on an older vehicle.

3. It doesn't account for additional ad valorem taxes on a new $30K machine vs your $10K family truckster. That can be a couple hundred bucks a year around here, and I'm sure much more elsewhere.

4. It doesn't account for the time value of money (or interest paid) on a replacement vehicle

5. It neglects to reflect depreciation and resale value. For example, spending an additional $20,000 on a new gas sipper doesn't mean that in 5 years it's worth $20,000 more than the old vehicle. Or that all $20,000 spent to upgrade is lost and has to be made up with gas savings.

6. Your calculations need to include the same factors your very own "true cost to own" calculations take into effect. Those are interest, depreciation, fuel, insurance, maintenance and repairs, and taxes.

A more sophisticated model, using historical norms for depreciation and other costs, could be constructed that would be much more useful.

"But people are doing this (or at least considering this) -- trading in a fully functional 2-4 year-old-vehicle for a new one, just to "save" money on gas."

Yes, Karl, but most people buy a new car by the time the old one is 5 to 10 years old. Others wait until the old one is on its last legs.

So, the real question people are asking is whether they should trade in earlier than they normally would. They might not ask explicitly, but that's the question to be answered.