I'm not surprised. Back in 2004, we bought our 3S five-door because the handling reminded us both of the E36 M3's the wife and I had owned.

And we didn't need the power - my wife had her license suspended once already.

how was the clutch, over at mazdas247, seems like that, along with some rattles, are the biggest complainents.

Karl, I'm happy with my MS6, a car that goes under the radar. Yep, the MS3 is a little darling of a car.

What are you saying man?! BMW's overweight, overrevvy, overpriced comfortmobile is the equal of Japan's greatest sports compact icon?!! Are you mad?!!!

Or to say the same thing more seriously, doesn't Mazda have enough personality to be more than just a BMW-wannabe? I understand, if it's the best way to explain to people unfamiliar with Mazda then, but the press seems to equate BMW with all that's good and holy in cars for enthusiasts and forgets that BMW isn't the only car company that shares those values.

Anyway, how does the Mazda MAZDASPEED Mazda3 (TM) compare to the Cobalt SS? I've been hearing much better things about the Cobalt SS than when it first came out, and it seems to be the closest thing the the MS3. Does their existence mean that future Civic Si's and GTI's will also try pushing 250+hp through the front wheels? It seemed physically impossible not long ago.

Karl, was your car a Grand Touring or Sport? They have two different climate control interfaces and I have owned both version. I'm guessing you had the manual system (Sport) as the temperature range in between "Hot" and "Cold" is not represented.

The Mazda3 also needs longer seat bottom cushions. At 6', half my thighs extend beyond the seat. A nicer wheel design wouldn't hurt either since Mazda is slipping in this regard. My '05's five spokes are much better than the newer snowflakes.

Your car appears to be a 2008.5 vehicle since it's rocking the beautiful Metropolitan Grey paint. They've added piano black interior trim which is truly tasteless but the Grand Touring gets Alcantara seats with 6way power adjustement.

carlisimo. The new Turbo Cobalt SS puts down some mean numbers- 0-60 5.5sec; 1/4 mile 14.0 @101.8; 72.4mph slalom; .92g skidpad; 60-0 117ft (from the latest Road & Track). As a performance machine, it's the real deal. The Speed3 is a better overall package but the numbers speak for themselves if you are looking for the ultimate bang for your buck.

I also agree the name of the car is just dumb. My car loan says: 2007 Mazda Mazda3, lol.

Karl, a year ago this month you were complaining about the torque steer, the seats and you said you wanted more exhaust growl. Did any of these change for the 2008 model?

When I read the blog post, I instantly knew 1487 would bring up the new turbo Cobalt SS but it looks like he got beaten to the punch. The SS will not only dust a Mazdaspeed3, it'll also return way better gas mileage at 22/30mpg vs. 18/26mpg. The SS certainly has a lot going for it.

"The SS certainly has a lot going for it."

Yah I agree. I prefer its looks to both the Mazdaspeed3 and the Civic Si. The Civic Si has no guts below 6000RPM. The Mazdaspeed being a hatch will both enthrall and enrage people I suppose.

I quite enjoyed the Cobalt SS I drove, even if the interior was a little sub par. If I was in this market, and couldn't afford a MCS or GTI, I would definitely go Cobalt SS.

"I also agree the name of the car is just dumb. My car loan says: 2007 Mazda Mazda3, lol. "

Seconded! Mazda MAZDASPEED Mazda3 = aaarghh

Agree those wheels are a little plain. The 17's avaialable on the non-speed 3's are much cooler. I just have the humble 3i sedan with the 2.0. I was going for lowest monthly payment and best gas mileage for a commuter car when I changed jobs and had to turn in my company car. I did get the touring pkg with alloys, ABS, side airbags, etc. It's fast enough to get me in trouble if I want to. I can vouch for the "excellent starting point". The steering is great, and the chassis is unflappable over any kind of road surface. The whole thing is just tight as a drum.

Also agree that the seat cushions are a little shallow. I'm 6'2". But I sit pretty much upright and they are okay (I don't get my lean on these days). Despite lacking some right knee space, I found the driving position in the 3 to be much more comfortable than the Civic (no lumbar adjustment) or Lancer (no telescoping steering column). Plenty of head room. Rear seat is fairly tight, especially behind my driver's seat all the way back, but I rarely have anyone over age seven back there.

I agree with Doug about the Cobalt SS interior. I remember reading a quote from one of the GM engineers in the Edmund's piece on that car, and he stated that they didn't really bother with the interior as it was all about making the car a better performer. Still, I'd rather have a fast car with a very nice interior than a very fast car with an interior that's not very nice.

You still have to live with it after all. I think that's why I like the Civic Si so much. To me, it just has a really great looking interior, but I'm one of those who likes the two tiered speedo set up. And to me, the Si is still fast enough to get in trouble in while having a lot of content at a cheaper price point.

The performance and gas mileage numbers on the Cobalt SS are nothing short of impressive though. If they would put that drivetrain and so forth into an Astra quality interior, then I would see no point in buying anything else.

crowb,

they are not going to redesign the interior of the Cobalt 4 years into its cycle. The interior is functional and has no more hard plastic than the corolla or 3. I wish someone could explain in details what is so "not nice" about the Cobalt's interior. I've been in the 2009 corolla and its worse than the 4 year old Cobalt.

The MS3 looks better than any other sport compact but the wheels are dull and the mileage is just OK. Automobile (current issue) said the torque steer is terible (Karl left that out) and the engine is full of lag because it lacks some of the latest tech found on other motors. They said its dead below 3k rpm and power drops off after 5500rpm. They also said steering feel is mediocre compared to normal 3's.

If you want a sport compact wagon the MS3 is the best and if you want a sedan/coupe the Cobalt SS is clearly the best. Any car that goes through the slalom faster than the 135i deserves a lot of respect.

chavis10/ahightower, leave those seats alone! Some of us are very uncomfortable in your Paul Bunyan seats.

"I wish someone could explain in details what is so "not nice" about the Cobalt's interior."

In the particular vehicle that I 'almost' bought, my main gripe was that the paint was wearing off the center stack in a number of locations. To be honest, I'm not even sure how it wore where it did! The dash was very hard plastic, but I haven't been in an '09 Corolla to compare. The little "SS" logo that was glued to the dash by the glove compartment was crooked and looked cheap. These few issues were sort of indicative of the entire feel inside.

That being said, I loved the ergonomics - good seating position, clear and easy to use instrument cluster, radio/climate controls. The shifter was a little awkwardly placed, but I think I could have gotten used to it.

1487,

I don't expect them to redesign the entire interior for all trim levels so far into the life cycle of the vehicle. I was merely pointing out that Chevy didn't really spruce up the interior to match the sprucing they did for the drivetrain, steering, suspension and so forth. And the Chevy people admitted as much. I have no problem with the Cobalt interior, its just not as nice to me as the interiors for the Si, GTI, and MS3. So, and I'm speaking for myself only, I'd rather have a nicer interior if I was paying about the same no matter which model I bought. Being faster isn't as important to me because I wouldn't take a car to a track. The occasional twisty road and a little fun on the interstate is all I'd be after. And for that, I'd prefer the models with nicer interiors. But interior quality is probably my top priority on any car purchase.

But that SS sure can turn it loose though...

The exhaust note was too much for me. It never lets up. That and the really touchy clutch pushed me into a Mini.

I dig the Mazda3 and MS3 but feel the economy car roots are little too clear. Fun, economical but not very good on gas and a little too rough (I was coming from a BMW).

The Cooper Clubman S and GTI - to me - offer a better daily-driver with fun added option. The MS3 is a hoot but it's never a car that feels right for taking the mother-in-law to dinner.

"And the Chevy people admitted as much. I have no problem with the Cobalt interior, its just not as nice to me as the interiors for the Si, GTI, and MS3"

I would say the GTI's interior is better than the other cars mentioned but its also the most expensive and the least powerful. I am not impressed by the odd looking Civic interior at all. The MS3 looks fine inside but is no more upscale than Cobalt SS nor is it significantly upgraded over regular 3. Both sport versions (Cobalt and MS3) have better seats and a little additional bright color trim pieces inside but nothing dramatic. I'm not aware of any significant upgrades that come with the Si's interior.

The Si's alcantara seats are fantastic. Not sure there's anything else besides the usual upgrades to the steering wheel and gauges. That's really all I'd want changed in the interior of a sport version, so the starting point is pretty important.

On the exterior, the GTI definitely does the best job of tastefully differentiating itself from the base model. I think the Si does alright, its wing goes well with the rest of the car in the coupe version and the grille and wheels are nice upgrades. I don't like the MS3's wheels at all, and the front fascia and hatch wing don't stand out as being noticeably better than the base. The Cobalt looks half a generation older than the rest, but without the wing (that doesn't match at all), it looks alright. Like the MS3, it's not obviously cooler than the base model.

Maybe the most significant thing about the MS3 is that it gives us hope that DSC can be done in a way that makes enthusiasts happy. And safe. The nanny era of car design can still be fun.

I would say the Si has more in common with the M3 as they have VERY similar personalities. Very similar formulas but of course the BMWs formula is concentrated.

-Small displacement N/A high revving engines
-Tactile driving experience
-Snickety snick transmissions
-Steering and chassis feedback
-Driver oriented cockpit
-BMW and Honda are much closer than you think in terms of that certain refined tactile performance

The MS3 is an awesome car but it would be more of a say....Im not sure what car in the M3's range would be more inline with the MS3's personality.

'I couldn't tell where the fan speed or temp dial actually was, so I just had to turn it until the output of cold air "seemed right."'

The Mazda3, 5, 6, CX-7, CX-9, RX-8 all have the same easy to use climate control.
Look forward; you don't need to look down.
The fan speed and temperature are shown in the LCD screen.

In fact, which company's climate control has hash marks? You can't, because climate control dials are free turning.

hondacura4 - bmw claim to fame is turbo engines.

hondas claim is toqureless high rev wonders. bmw has power in nearly all its rpm range, the si gets its power where? in the 6-8k rpm range

"Look forward; you don't need to look down.
The fan speed and temperature are shown in the LCD screen"

That's only true on the Grand Touring models. Base models with manual systems don't show this info on the LCD

I think the Mazdaspeed3 is a great car but would never buy one because of the price.

In Canada the base price is $31K while in the US it's only $23K. Since the dollar is at par (and has been for a long time), Mazda is ripping off Canadians to the tune of $8000.

Subaru is just as bad charging $33,800 for a base WRX.

I don't want to buy a Caliber anymore then the next guy but at a price of $21,900, it's just as fast and an incredible bargin.

"hondacura4 - bmw claim to fame is turbo engines."

Hmmm, opfreak, I don't think so! However, I think your more or less right about the Honda engines.

Karl, I'd love for Edmunds to do a comparison between the Cobalt SS and the MS3. From the specs, the SS sounds incredible, especially given its fuel economy. If you've already driven it, do you think it has more zoom-zoom than the MS3?

I've driven a normal Cobalt before! While the interior is not stylish, I think it's very decent! If a car is as excellent as the Cobalt, the interior is the least of my worries.

"In fact, which company's climate control has hash marks? You can't, because climate control dials are free turning."

Mitsubishi and VW, to name a couple.

"hondacura4 - bmw claim to fame is turbo engines.

hondas claim is toqureless high rev wonders. bmw has power in nearly all its rpm range, the si gets its power where? in the 6-8k rpm range."

Where have you been? BMW offered great n/a engines long before the current twin turbo 3.0L unit. If you read the headline the author was referring to the M3 (not turbocharged) not the "regular" 335i.

As far as Hondas being "torqueless wonders", I would say that the Honda 4 cylinders are at least adequate in the torque department given their high reving nature and small displacement. No, they are certainly not stump pullers nor are they meant to be. Honda also gives these engines a very conservative tune dyno proven by bolt-ons and the Hondata reflash. That combination makes power everywhere especially in the midrange.

"If you've already driven it, do you think it has more zoom-zoom than the MS3?"

I dont think you really need him to answer that one for you. Cobalt gets no respect from KB regardless of model.

Best thing about my new MS3 GT is the torque and the driveability. It eats up twisty roads at a high rate of speed without any drama. Passing at secondary highway speeds is efortless. Smoothe. fluid. efortless, predictable, powerful! Great bang for the buck with lots of baubles included. Played econo card for first 1,000 miles to see top mileage. Got 30.3 MPG. Vague shifter and delivery electrical gremlins only complaint (bad radio drained battery). Could use bigger tires! Has anyone upsized the tires? Also CAI update worth the trouble?