I'm a fan of the Clubman, even if I prefer the looks of my Cooper. The one feature you mentioned that I would most like to have is the a reverse-opening half-door on the passenger's side. I don't mind transporting people in my back seat, but without the reverse opening door, its a pain to get back there if you're taller then 5'5".

As for the MINI crossover, I'm disappointed to see the brand jump on that bandwagon. Then again, there have certainly been a lot of different styles of MINIs over the years, so maybe I shouldn't criticize.

This is the car most likely to replace my Cooper S in 4-5 months. The ride is much smoother than the regular Cooper S, the space is flat out enormous compared to a regular Cooper and in the corners it's more predictable given the slight wheelbase increase. The rear suicide door will actually be a help when it comes to the baby as there's no b-pillar to get in the way! 3-4 years with the Clubman and then back for a 1 series as the kid will be big enough to click himself in the backseat.

I had zero problems with the back windows. I think it's silly and prefer the hatch but I really don't see why people are upset about it.

As configured as I want - 28k (LSD, sport suspension, xenons, comfort access, aluminum trim, anthracite headliner, cold weather, bluetooth, etc). Right now I am 95% sure I can drop my 16 month Cooper S (25k msrp) for about 23-24k - guys on North American Motoring are reporting used sales actually right around their MSRP. I'm glad I went for the Cooper and hope the Clubby holds its value as well.

I was very excited at the Clubman but after test driving the MINI lineup, found the Clubman is not "huge" or even practical.

-Though it has the suicide door, it is still more difficult to access than a 2 dr GTI or most regular 2 door 'hot hatches'.

-The cargo space is shockingly tiny. I am not sure my bike could fit inside without the hassle a wagon-style promises to forego.
The low roof, very narrow cargo space make it feel like you are accessing a tunnel

-The interior is simply a big negative. Though I admire GOOD design, this is just not one. It is all style, no function and extremely cheap looking to boot.
I like the concept though they need to really do the work and make it function. "cheating" and just trying to make it look cool is just lazy.

- The split window reminds me of the Suburbans w/ same. It's a bit bothersome but enough to take real note during the drive.

-The Clubman is simply a more comfortable MINI. That's it. I think for a single, active person; it would be a nice car. Then again, why not just get a MINI and stay "pure"?

-The non-mechanical, electric solenoid doors are a safety issue that immediately killed the MINI for me. This alone was enough for me to pass.

- reliability ratings don't seem very good w/ MINI

- For what you get, the MINI is quite expensive. Of course, it is very high style with nice details and classic shape that will not look dated in 5 years so that def. means something.

- I do like the size and sporty, high style of the Clubman. It does look a bit ungainly from some angles, especially compared to the MINI which always looks dynamic and impressive. However, if I were getting a MINI, it would be the Clubman just for a bit of 'breathing room' and freeway comfort.

However, I'm passing on MINI. The value/design/interior just doesn't work for me. Plus there are some enticing choices in the $20-28K market that seem, to me, far better values of impressive style.

Oh, that blue/silver roof Clubman is my favorite combo. I think it really looks sharp.

Karl, if you're capable of keeping an 8 and 10 year old under control in the backseat of a mini for over an hour, you should be writing a blog on parenting and not on cars.

Really, anyone with two kids would probably be better served by a CRV/Escape/Rav/Jetta Wagon or even a four door hatch.

But, as a second car, or for occasional rear-seat use, I do like it. I would have much rather they had four doors, and a lift hatch in back, but I guess they though that would dillute the mini philosophy too much... or I should keep my mouth shut and wait for the next larger size. I really don't know why the suicide door isn't on both sides.

As for getting a kid in and out..... I can't think of any fourdoor sedan that would be harder than this. Even in the RX8, which has a larger suicide door, it's got to be a pain to get to the release lever at the back of the seat cushion. So while better than the two door, not even as good as Yaris/Versa/Fit.

"Once upon a time I owned a Mini Clubman. It was a 2002 Cooper with 115 horsepower....."

Was there a Mini Clubman in 2002, or are you using "Min Clubman" here as a figure of speech?

Karl, being the car enthusiast you are, I'm also surprised you chose the CVT, given ther not-so-impressive performances back in 2002 and the fact that the Mini is a compact. It's interesting. Any comments on that choice?
(My personal rule is to stick with the manual when I buy a compact, unless it has a powerful engine like the Cooper S's or the Rabbit's.......)

Mis-type on "Mini Clubman" in my first sentence. Just fixed it.

I went with CVT because it was primarily the wife's car and she's not into manuals.

Love the Mini, love the Clubman, The Mini crossover, well I guess in this day and age it had to happen (Wonder what Alec Issigonis would of thought). I'd love to see them do a modern interpretation of the Moke next though.

I've driven both the Cooper S and Clubman S, and overall I agree with Karl. The Clubman doesn't give up a whole lot when it comes to performance despite the extra weight, and the improvements in ride and space are quite welcome. The thing that kills the Clubman for me is the price. With the options I want, it's just over $28k, and from there is a pretty short punt to a 128i. Sure, the 1-series doesn't have the 'cool' factor that the Mini does, but everywhere else it makes a lot more sense.

On a slightly related note, I've got a question regarding the normal Cooper S: Has anyone driven one without the sport pack? If so, what's it like? Does it improve the ride? Does the car still feel fairly tossable? Thanks.

sabastian,

I drove the Clubman, Cooper & S w/ auto. I was focused on the non-sport (due to edmunds reviews). It felt more comfortable than the sport... didn't look as cool but i'd make that tradeoff. Certainly didn't feel less tossable under the limits... maybe if you push it, it will be more visible.

Also the new auto is nice. I didn't have any problem with it and it is a requirement with my wife also.

Even a stripped Clubman was quite expensive. The way I equipped on the website, it was around $25K. I could not find one at the dealership for under $29K... either way, it was much more than I was willing to pay for the car.

Good point on the price tickling at cars like the 1.

"The way I equipped on the website, it was around $25K. I could not find one at the dealership for under $29K... "

I've heard this is a problem with MINIs. I have only one set of options on my MC - apparently I was quite lucky to find something so basic. This is likely due to the fact that most people tend to custom order them.

You guys, most Minis are ordered. You will have a hard time finding BMWs and Minis outfitted without a bunch of junk. Order them and you get what you want.

I've tried the GTI many times and there's something about it I can't get past - too similar to my wife's fairly bland A3. Mazda3 is non-starter as it has zero power and the Mazdaspeed is way too boy racer. Honda's Fit is underpowered; Civic SI's not much fun and feels cheap. Jetta TDI/2.0T wagon is huge in my estimation. No way to any midsize sedans. At this point it seems it's either the Clubman or GTI 4 door. I drove my sister's 328 wagon the other night and couldn't get over what a boat that car is. It made my old 06 330i seem spry in comparison.

128/135 doesn't have 4 doors or I'd buy one and call it a day.

FWIW, the 1 series is more fun to drive but it's got far less usable interior space.

Jeez, blueguy, you're picky about cars! LOL!

Civic Si feels cheap? It feels as good as you'd expect a Civic or any car in that price range.....I think it's quality is great!

Fit being underpowered: well, I don't think they're intended to be powerful cars! Think about it.....

MS3 I agree is boy racer but compared to its competition (Ralliart, WRX, even the STI and Evo) it not boy-racer at all. It is the grown-up in its class.

Mazda 3 has "zero power"? Come on! It's not meant to win races but calling it underpowered is completely false. It's plenty powerful. Its performance is competitive with its competition (Rabbit, Lancer GTS).

328i a "boat"? I agree the 3-series has got too large (and while the 1-series is about the right size, it's still too heavy) but a "boat"? No.

BTW, I think the Mini feels cheap on the interior....especially the dash. Let's just say that the Civic's dash is better. I'm surprised you haven't commented about that!!

But, yeah man, you're too picky. I think you should just stick to luxury cars. Save $50k and get a 335i.

Blackadder, I'm very picky about food, cars and movies.

I agree about some interior bits on the Cooper being just plain wrong. I'm not fond of many things in my mini - the pizza dish speedo (not used), the radio (not used), dash controls (rarely used), frameless door glass (I try to ignore them), FWD. Admittedly, I rarely come into contact with any of the above items, the FWD system excepted of course. And there are elements to a Cooper that only VW and BMW can match - the feel of the door opening and closing, the heft of the steering wheel (in sport mode), the tight chassis feel.

So yeah the stupid pizza-pan speedo is just there to amuse the same people who dig the silly retro Cooper sheetmetal but when I power the car up, that's when I remember why I bought it. Overall the Cooper S is fun to drive, small, has great space usability, an eager engine and playful suspension.

That insane 90-93% residual is making it seem like the best purchase in years too. Even adding in sales tax, if my cooper S costs me $300 a month to drive it over 16-17 months it'll be money well spent.

just goes to show how different personal taste is! I really like the GTI and A3! haha

I would take a Honda FIT over the MINI. It is very honest in what it is and does it well. Excellent build, interior and use of space. High mpg's and dead reliable. It is the best traits that made Honda what it is. All that for a price that undercuts the MINI by huge margins.

Sure it's not a sportscar or 'hot hatch' but so what. It is a great econocar. The practicality and yet fun attitude make it very desirable.

I don't think the CIVIC feels cheap but it certainly looks cheap. Sorry but all the Civics just make me yawn. For some reason, I think the FIT is more interesting.

I think the MINIs are stylish and overpriced with some key flaws that really dull the shine. Still, it is an enticing pkg and if I were single, might give the Clubman a couple years... but my mind keeps going back to the much more substantial GTI when I look at the bottom line. $

"BTW, I think the Mini feels cheap on the interior....especially the dash. Let's just say that the Civic's dash is better. "

My friend just got his brand new Civic Si (08 I assume) and I think the interior is pretty disappointing. Also, front seat space is severely lacking compared to my MC.

"but my mind keeps going back to the much more substantial GTI when I look at the bottom line. $"

Its an interesting dilemma I agree. I think it depends on where you are with your life. If you want the speed + carrying more then 2 people on a regular basis, then the GTI is likely more suited to your needs.

When I go to MINI events, the owner demographics tend to be either young, single/childless couples or older, retired/kids have moved out of the nest type people. This is no doubt due to the fact that even with the larger Clubman, the MINI can't really carry more than 2 people on a consistent basis.

Cruiserhead, you could not be more right about different tastes. From the sound of it, a car is something to get yourself from Point A to Point B. For people like blue, many Mini owners, and myself (a MINI JCW owner), the Mini is about how you get there. I didn't buy it for the exterior styling, or the retro interior. The sheer brilliance of the Mini in the corners the whine of the R53s supercharer, and the culture surrounding Mini ownership are things Honda/Toyota/Nissan/etc owners either don't get or don't want.

A Mini in any form (Hatchback/Convertible/Clubman) is not for everyone. I like that. You can have your Fit and enjoy your trip down the highway. I'll take my Mini screaming down the back country roads to the ame destination, and we will both arrive with the same level of satisfaction.

Cheers!

first time i've heard a GTI or A3 described as cars "to get from point a to point b".
I'm a car guy and truck guy. Because I bumped the MINI from consideration, I don't love driving? C'mon.

Those kind of emotional arguments are personal and great if you own a supercar with no other expectations but back in the real world where one expects a car to function, the MINI just sacrifices too much.

Well, blueguy, I thing I understand you. I see you're looking at the complete picture when buying a car.

Me, I could never bring myself to spend my money on a Mini...despite the driving dynamics and very high value retention. I think it sacrifices too much practicality. I would look at the Mazda 3, Civic or Rabbit/GTI instead. I really like the new Jetta wagons too.

"......but back in the real world where one expects a car to function, the MINI just sacrifices too much."
I agree fully. It gives up too much. Little surprise it sells in niche-like numbers, even if i's very popular amongst its fans.

Adder, I'm still trying to figure out the practicality sacrifices you guys keep mentioning. The only thing the Cooper can't do is carry 4 adults males comfortably. It'll seat 4 guys but not comfortably.

Other than that, what are the other practicality sacrifices?

Blueguy, perhaps I should test-drive one get an idea of its size/practicality for myself. But my natural instinct when I see a Mini is "it's stylish, sporty and fast but too small, not practical....".

Also don't forget that the Mini has only two doors, well except for the Clubman. I've never been a fan of two-door cars.......
And there are other intangibles that make it less practical than other cars of its size (eg, the Fit).
All these detract from the practicality and that's what I'm refering to.

I think Mini themselves have noticed the practicality shortcomings and that's why they've introduced the Clubman to address them. But the Clubman doesn't go far enough.

Blueguy, I realise what the Mini is for, and I think that with the exception of the interior quality issues, it does an excellent job of doing what it's meant for. Thus, it is a great car.
All I'm saying is that it's not for me and I wouldn't buy one, not even the Clubman.

Sabastian,

"Wonder what Alec Issigonis would of thought". Two words for you: Mini Moke. Of course, in the '60s we didn't call them crossovers!

I've transported 2 adults in the back seats of the Clubman with no problems. I probably wouldn't recommend putting 4 adults in it on a long roadtrip, but it does just fine for trips around town. I love my Clubman and it's quirky interior, barn doors, etc. I have no regrets. Yes, I could have found a "more practical" car for the money. . .but I wasn't looking for run-of-the-mill. I wanted something different, and I found it in the MINI Clubman.

I agree the Clubman stands out and adds some 'passion' to a very boring and practical-minded segment.
I've detailed my reasons for not buying several posts up. Emotionally, I really like it and think it's a nice design. It does make you want to forego the downside and say, "heck, i'll get it".

I think the bottom line is that when you look at the actual price, it really isn't a stylish economy car. It is competing against some seriously nice vehicles tickling the $30K mark.

Back in 91 when I got a CRX Si (the last year of the 'great' CRX) it was a 2 seat 'exotic' sportscar that cost $12,500. Like the MINI, it hit all the right buttons- fun, sporty and inexpensive. it also was practical-for a 2 seat hatch. I loved it.

It's just that without that value part, it dulls everything else b/c I expect more for the $. But what do I know, MINI is selling boatloads.

I think many of you are missing the point on this vehicle. Those of us with kids can actually consider buying this as a commuter vehicle. I get 34+ MPG and can leave my Suburban at home. What other vehicle can get that kind of mileage, carry two kids in the back, and be remotely considered fun. Finally my MINI Clubman only cost $20,450. $250 for multi-funtion steering wheel and $250 for sport seats. I don't miss or need the other $10,000 of options.

There are indisputable advantages to owning a Fit, arguably one of the most practical cars on the market. A colleague bought one and its functionality is amazing. But a MINI it isn't.

I bought my MINI for passionate reasons, not practical ones. Now admittedly it is a second car, garage kept and never winter driven. I'll take my gas guzzling Toyota Highlander for transporting the family and the dog to the cottage. But all of us, including my 4 year old, would jump in the MINI any day of the week for hops around town or for a fun Sunday drive in the country.

The MINI evokes something more visceral than any econobox could possibly muster: its handling, style, precision and overall fun factor transform the otherwise mundane task of driving into a whole new experience that I look forward to every time I get behind the wheel. IMHO that fact alone offsets any perceived (and very minor) reduction in functionality that MINI ownership entails.

Upon returning from the grocery store tonight my wife took a left instead of a right, and drove the MINI another 30 km just for the fun of it. She would never have done that with the Subaru Justy that we upgraded from.