Edmunds CarPool

Interesting post, though I'm sure it will generate some anger (as usual). I am always happy to see a post explaining why "shopping by the numbers" doesn't always make sense.

The cargo space and gas mileage are amazing, and definitely a big bonus for me. I would tend to agree with Karl that the base vehicle is more desirable to me. If I'm spending $70-80K +, I would rather try to get into something a little more exotic and certainly more head turning. If I was spending < $50K, it is a bit more appealing.

This further confirms my lust. What a deal. I've always loved Corvettes, but when the C6 first arrived, and the "base" model was better than the C5 ZO6, it hurt me to not buy one (darn kids... 22 cubic feet you say?... that could work)

It's somewhat disappointing to see your list of negatives, but wouldn't you say that it's still a thousand times more refined than the Ferraris and Lamborghinis of our childhood, or the first generation Viper? And at least as good or better than any other current American muscle car, such as one of the hopped-up Mustang variations, or the new Challenger?

I've never really seen the magic in Corvettes. I also have a ton of friends who go 'by the numbers' all the time to praise the Corvette as 'the best sports car'. But, after see how Karl laid it out, I would have to agree that a base Corvette is a great car for the money. The only thing that I really wish would change is the interior, it really needs an update. the leather package helps, but it is really expensive. Hmm...now I might add a low-mile, couple year old 'Vette to my weekly Autotrader\Carsoup search.

Karl, good review on the C6 ZO6. Is a great car and had the chance to compare both base and ZO6. You are right if you are looking for a supercar performance at bottom price the ZO6 is the car.

By the way watchout with the fuel mileage and treat that gas pedal gently. If you floor it too many times you gas mileage goes out of the window big time.

Sure the car has their bad points. The dealer was having a heck of a bad time trying to open the rear hatch. Sounds familiar? Avoid slow turns. You get a workout on your arms. Avoid pot holes at low speeds. The car just bottoms out.

As for a car choice, I hate to say this but is not just the difference on horsepower with the base corvette the engine on the ZO6 is a different animal. The base Corvette engine starves on top end like true old pushrod but the ZO6 keeps pushing. The front end on the base car feels unsettle at high speeds compared with the ZO6.

The only bad thing with the ZO6 is that the great majority will not notice you driving one. They think you are driving a base Corvette.

So pretty much you spent the whole post nit-picking a $71k "supercar"? Give me a break. The Z06 is NOT a "supercar". It is a car that can hang with the supers but at half (if not more) of their prices.

With that concept don't you think that something's going have to give?

FYI, I used to post under ewilfong, but I've re-registered under a new handle after being locked out from posting for weeks on end.

I don't consider any of the comments to be "nitpicking." Spending $71,000 on almost anything short of real estate creates fairly high expectations. And for me, those expectations include everyday driveability.

"But the Corvette's shifter buzzes like a defective electric razor, making me want to avoid contact until absolutely necessary."

That's actually a high tech device to remind you that, as any driving instructor will recommend, it's best to have both hands on the wheel when not shifting. You'll notice that the buzzing increases in intensity as RPM's increase - quite the innovative safety feature if you ask me.

In all seriousness, I wish the Vette had the Ricardo tranny that the Ford GT used, but there's probably a cost issue. On the plus side, people are adding significant HP and torque to their Vettes (via superchargers and turbos) without having to beef up the transmission.

Karl, thanks for the great article. It gives great insight into all the nuances of the Z06.

Personally, while I think Points 3 and 4 (the scrappy noise and heat problem) are unacceptable or very bad, I see Points 1 and 2 (the buzzing gear lever and the dynamic feel of the car) as issues that come with buying a "bargain supercar" and I don't think it'll matter much to the car's fanbase.

Karl, could you PLEASE post a similar article about the 2009 Mazda 6 in the near future? The full test on INSIDE LINE doesn't have any Second Opinions, but the 2003 Mazda 6 full test had your comments in the Second Opinions section.
Anyway, the Full Test suggests that the 2009 Mazda 6 is disappointing and I would like to know what your take on the car is.

"but the feel of the car, like the transmission, isn't up to modern supercar poise. It's not overt, but subtle chassis shudders and minor steering wheel kickbacks are not uncommon."

As many BMW and Mini owners can attest, ditching the runflat tires goes a long way towards helping this situation. Also if GM would use higher quality dampers and tighten the factory alignment tolerances it would make a world of difference. I'm curious to see how the ZR1 feels with its new Michelin tires (though still runflats) and aggressively-tuned magnetorheological dampers.

"Sometimes I wonder if Chevrolet wants the front spoiler to serve as a sort of "early warning system," alerting owners long before anything really important slams into the ground."

Good question - fortunately the front spoilers are basically disposable and are cheap to replace. On my coupe, I've found that I had to replace the 2 corner pieces (the spoiler is 3 pieces) after roughly 15,000 miles of commuting on speed hump and dip riddled roads. The total cost was roughly $25 and 20 minutes in my driveway. Supposedly the very low spoilers help keep the nose of the car planted at autobahn speeds. Unfortunately, I don't have any first hand knowledge of this.

"I don't know what's causing this heat issue"

The exhaust pipes run directly underneath the center console. I suppose some insulation would help, but that would add weight - and who needs that? If the plastic interior isn't melting, it can't be that hot, right?

I've got almost 22k miles on my C6 and I've yet to recieve any burns that require medical attention. I do make it a point to keep elecronics and microwave popcorn out of the center console, though the cupholders don't get too hot if you leave the cover open.

I'd reckon the R8 and GT-R feel nimbler due to the front end bite provided by their AWD systems. I think they are narrower in width as well.

For several reasons, I chose a “base” Corvette Coupe almost 2 years ago. One ‘number’ of interest to me was the Coupe’s price.

While I do indulge in ( um ) spirited cornering on occasion, I try to stay within 7 or 8 tenths at all times, on public roads – and my impression is that the base Corvette ( with ‘base’ suspension, not Z51 ) is well sorted, competent, and provides a rather amazingly good ride – for a sports ( or GT ) car as low as this.

I do scrape that front spoiler lip exiting my driveway – every day. [ Mine is a Daily Driver. ] And I have learned to be careful whenever I must traverse sharply angled pavement intersections. The noise is annoying.

The trans. tunnel on mine does generate some warmth. From scanning various Corvette forums, this seems to vary by individual example.

With deals on left-over 2008s at GM Employee price plus 0.0% financing, this seems to be an excellent time to buy a Corvette – certainly better than Fall of ’06, when I purchased mine.

Of course, re-sale \ trade-in values have plummeted on used Corvettes in the past year – so, eventually, it will cost me a bit more than I had expected. Corvette depreciation has historically been better than most Domestics. Oh, well.

I do not regret my choice to buy this Corvette.

The dynamics ( including world-class acceleration ) I find very satisfying – every time I drive it.

Anyway - I do agree a ‘base’ Corvette represents a screaming bargain, at today’s actual transaction pricing. And in particular, the ability to equip one relatively stripped ( say, only the Z51 pkg ) all the way up to a more GT-leaning ( ? ) 3LT, with heated seats, HUD, etc – allows it to appeal to both those preferring a relatively “pure sports car” & those ( like myself ) who want a GT car that can perform mundane chores & commuting, haul my Daughter & a long weekend of luggage 6+ hours to The Beach, etc.

There is even now a 4LT package available, with an additional layer of interior luxury.

I have found ( in nearly 30,000 miles – covered in about 20 months ) the ‘base’ Corvette to be a remarkably well-conceived, and now ( third year of production, when I purchased ) well-sorted GT car. Equipped with the amenities included in the 3LT package, and with the ‘base’ suspension, I have no problems driving in & out of MidTown Hotlanta every work day, highway driving as long as the gas tank capacity, my bladder & my thirst for coffee allow, or driving to the local grocery store.

In fact, as my only vehicle, I chose the Corvette largely to add a degree of enjoyment to all those mundane trips I typically have to make, each week.

Cheers,
- Ray
“Base” Corvette driver . . .

The thought process in choosing different versions of the same car is interesting. I think that in those cases, when someone is wondering whether the more expensive version is worth it, they've already decided on that nameplate, whether it's the Corvette, 3-series, 911, Mustang, or Civic, usually because of brand loyalties or styling preferences. How important is it to have the really fast version?

I doubt logic even enters the equation, it's a matter of bragging rights (or the opposite). Take the Camaro - the V6 version will have about as much power as the Mustang GT, and about as much as most people could ever want. (After 300hp, more power is a diminishing returns sort of thing). But there's a V8 version out there so they'll fear having to spend the next few years explaining their purchase to people. 911 and Corvette buyers face the midlife crisis stereotype unless they get the Carrera S or Z06 versions. Not very fair, imo. The expensive versions of those cars could put you in the base model of something more interesting... of which there's also a better version, I'm sure. It takes some self-confidence to get the base (value) model.

VERY interesting article about the Vette. The last Vettes I drove were 2 C5 Z06s. One was modified (usual I/H/E - ECU tweaks) the other was stock.

I can really relate to points #1 and #2 as the shifter feel wasnt pleasant in any situation. Its like driving my grandfathers old 1977 Chevy farm truck. It needs to have a precise, direct, light shifting action like an S2000 or something similar. On top of that the constant vibrations dont make it better. It was to the point of me not wanting to shift at all, good thing there was a plethora of toqrue on hand.

As the author stated the Corvette actually feels larger than it really is. It drives like a bigger car. Its wide and I didnt really enjoy the driving position. The seats were a bit chintzy too.

The car to me didnt have any finesse or that certain tactile feel that really connects me with a performance car. Although the chassis composure is pretty decent the chassis nor steering never seemed to talk to me. The Vette is a great car especially for the money but I prefer a much more tactile driving experience.

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These are the main reasons I bought our 2002 S2000 back in 2005. Its light and it feels light. It has that certain amount of tactile performance that a lot of high performance cars no matter what the price lack. The shifter feel, steering, clutch take-up, driving position and the immediate direct undiluted feel from the chassis just seems so natural,.... raw yet super refined and smooth. For the money I dont think there is another car that can match it in terms of that tactile driving experience. Then there is the sound (Corvette certainly sounds great too) of that 9000RPM redline. Simply glorious as it never seems like its even trying. Refined and smooth from idle all the way to 9 grand!

Turbo S2000 =) This particular S2000 dynoed @ 480hp and around 290lbft of torque (pump gas). Stock internals as the internals in the F20/F22 inline 4's are forged, super strong. Ive seen these 2.0/2.2L engines push out a bit over 600WHP on race gas with stock internals and stay together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKuZZPb94Fw

The value issue as relates to base vs Z06 is the same as it is for many high end cars. Is the M3 really worth the premium over the 335i? Probably not. At a certain point you are paying a premium for the exclusivity and performance potential of a top level car. The base C6 is more than fast enough for most folks but that doesnt mean people arent willing to pay more just to know they have a 505hp Z06.

The tunnel heating issue was addressed after the first model year. C&D said the 2008 tranny was much better after the tweaks. At least it was on the base car. Same goes for steering feel.

I would think that a heavier car is likely to feel more planted than a lighter car. The vette may feel somewhat twitchy and light on its tires compared to an R8 or GTR because its hundreds of pounds lighter.

The tunnel heating issue is by no stretch of the imagination resolved. Can't put anything in the cupholders, in the passenger footwell or in the trunk without it getting baked. And I don't mean slightly warm, either--those areas get downright hot.

"I would think that a heavier car is likely to feel more planted than a lighter car. The vette may feel somewhat twitchy and light on its tires compared to an R8 or GTR because its hundreds of pounds lighter."

1487, I dont think you understand what we mean when we say it drives like a bigger car or it feels heavier than it really is. Remember he said the Vette felt heavier than the R8 not the other way around.

Karls quote:

"Drive a Z06 back-to-back with an Audi R8 and you'll swear the 3,400-pound Audi is lighter. Even the somewhat tubby Nissan GT-R doesn't feel remarkably (let along 700 pounds) heavier than the Z06. There's a psychological element playing a role here as well, with the Corvette's large exterior dimensions and flaring front fenders in your forward view adding to the Chevy's "big" impression. Regardless, the Corvette doesn't feel as sporty as it is, which is a rather crucial element in a sports car if you ask me."

In other words the Vette feels like it weighs more as it isnt as alive, tactile or sharp as some of its heavier or lighter competition. Then there is the psychological element that Karl spoke of with the fenders and the larger exterior dimensions.

If you could drive a Porsche GT3 and a Z06 back to back you could better understand what we mean. The GT3 by contrast just feels light and alive in your hands and with any slight tug of the wheel the car responds RIGHT NOW! The 2 C5 Corvettes I drove although great performance, cars werent as alert and felt a bit numb. Im sure the C6 Corvette is better but I dont think its still up to par in this area given the similar articles Ive read.

With my (limted) experience with high powered high performance cars or performance cars in general if the car is tactile, repsonds quickly, feels light yet stable it gives the driver the confidence to push the cars limits and my own limits further.

If Chevy could sharpen up the Vettes responses, up the refinement, give this car the shifter feel it deserves, as well as steering feel befitting a car of this caliber this car would be near perfect as the overall driving experience would be much better. Add to that its overall performance......lethal combination.