Another prime example of the fastest way a full-line automobile company can hurt themselves is to pander to those of us who read enthusiast blogs.

Like it or not, the real money in the car business is in the 'white bread on four wheels' crowd. And my complements to Mazda for not going too 'white bread'.

I don't mind that Mazda went a little Toyota on the new 6, and I don't think most enthusiasts will either. A person who truly values a fun to drive car would never shop for a fwd family car to begin with, so it really doesn't matter. The appeal of a sporty-ish family car really only extends as far as the people who make comments like, "Yeah, my Altima really hugs the road...like it's on rails."

I must admit the new looks don't much impress me in person. It doesn't look bad, but the appearance doesn't strike me like the old one used to when it was new.

I put up a lengthy review on the Mazda6 forum at Edmunds. The new 6 is less zoom-zoom and more Camcord. For the money they want for that car, I'd rather a 2-3 year old entry lux like a G35 or 3 series. Better warranty, better cars on the CPOs.

It's a shame it's not even close to competitive when it comes to fuel economy. I still don't know why they gave us the uglier version of the vehicle while reserving the more attractive version for Europe.

The new Mazda 6 took some looks from the Altima. I will have to check it out to get a firm opinion.

I like the looks more now seeing the whole/final production car then I did in the intial spy photos. Seems like a well done car - nice to have another competitive option in the segment.

orangutan,

Last I checked, the 4cyl Mazda6 was on par with the class average and the V6 was slightly a tad lower. If by "competitive" you meant compared to the Camry V6, that speaks more of the 2GR-FE motor than it does of Ford's 3.7l drivetrain. That Toyota V6 is mighty impressive, spec-wise.

The Mazda6 V6 is not close to other cars when it comes to gas mileage. At 17/25 the gearing is questionable at best. If the final highway gear isn't the issue (it normally is with Mazdas), then that engine has major problems. 25 MPG with a 6 speed is despicable. Even BMW's crazy 300 HP engines get 27-28 mpg ratings.

For Mazda's next hat trick the Mazda3 will become larger, more expensive, and much softer to drive to achieve Mazda's goals of turning it into a more expesive version of the Corolla and appeal to less "enthusiastic" drivers.

If Mazda continues to chase the "target audience" that buys 400,000 plus Camry's per year, it will not be long before Mazda is no longer needed in North America and Mazda's role may be filled by Ford.

Mazda's goal was to increase 6 sales to 80K to 100K range. Put me in charge of Mazda and I would sell the Euro/Japanese version of the 6 in North America and offer it with hybrid and diesel powertrain. The hatch would still be sold in North America and the wagon too.
Imagine being able to buy a hybrid that has sporty handling, a traditional dash, and styling that does not scream "Look at Me, Look at Me, see my geeky hybrid styling".

Nissan and Toyota midsize offerings offer choices with MUCH higher MPG in their hybrid versions of Camry and Altima.
So Mazda has decided not to invest in hybrid tech. for the 6, and I see the logic in that decision given the number of 6's sold, however, Mazda also is drifting away from from their niche of better handling, more fun to drive, different from the mainstream right into the center of the mainstream and that logic I expect to cause future problems.
People who would not consider Mazda to be a viable alternative to Altima, Camry, Accord will now likely find it a viable alternative, IF and a big IF they suddenly find a reason to visit a Mazda dealer in the first place.

Going WOT on any MAZDA will cause it to choke, you have to roll into it.. I think they programmed in a delay that prevents shock.

Anyway I don't like it either, but there will be a MAZDASPEED line with shocks, a CAI and other MAZDASPEED warrantied goodies for the 6.

blueguy,

"The Mazda6 V6 is not close to other cars when it comes to gas mileage."

Camry 19/22/28
Accord 19/22/29
Sonata 19/22/28
Altima 19/22/26*
Fusion 18/21/26
Malibu 17/20/26
Passat 17/20/26*
Mazda6 17/20/25
Gallant 17/20/25
Legacy 17/20/24*
Sebring 16/19/26

*=burns premium gasoline according to the EPA

Just so nobody thinks I'm an apologist:

Mazda - Soul of a sports car
Mazda6 - They sold their soul

Thanks Karl for the fair and balanced review (and not in the faux news meaning either). For $20K it is a good car and a good deal, a 2-3 year old luxury car would still cost more have have less warranty.

As a prior owner of a Mazda6, I say thank goodness Mazda went this direction. The previous Mazda6, although sporty for its class, always felt like it didn't know what it was supposed to be. It was too soft, too large, and too conservative to be really sporting; and too firm, too small, and too edgy for family duty. And that reflected in its sales. Buyers looking for something truly sporting with four doors, as well as those looking for something to haul around a family found better alternatives that didn't have Mazda badges.

To fix the car's problems, Mazda either needed to make it smaller and lighter with better handling, but Mazda already had that car: Mazda3. So, Mazda made the smart decision to go after the meat of the market where size and comfort rule, and the result should help boost sales beyond anything the previous Mazda6 or 626 ever achieved. I agree with Karl... nice work Mazda!

Fuel economy, unfortunately, has never been a strong suit for Mazda. Their gearing preferences are terrific for performance driving, but destroy efficiency especially at highway speeds. Hopefully, the new reality of fuel costs will force Mazda to change that. On a plus note, the 4-cylinder automatic (by far the most popular model of just about every non-premium midsize sedan) achieves the same fuel economy as the 4-cylinder automatic Honda Accord.

"On a plus note, the 4-cylinder automatic... achieves the same fuel economy as the 4-cylinder automatic Honda Accord."

The Accord slightly edges out the Mazda6, actually:

Altima 23/26/31
Malibu 22/26/33
Camry 21/25/31
Accord 21/24/31
Mazda6 21/24/30
Sebring 21/24/30
Sonata 21/24/30
Fusion 20/23/28
Galant 20/23/27
Legacy 20/22/27
Passat 19/22/28*

* = burns premium gas, says the EPA

The last Mazda6 was the same size as a current Nissan SENTRA.
Not quite competing in the right class. Which makes it a ridiculously overpriced car.

quote billt9 - The last Mazda6 was the same size as a current Nissan SENTRA.
Not quite competing in the right class. Which makes it a ridiculously overpriced car.-

I agree 6 is overpriced.

Civic is the size of early generation Accord, Corolla is size of early generation Camry, and Sentra is the size of early generation Altima.

Is BIGGER better? Cars and trucks have increased in size and weight and I'm not convinced that competing in size just to compete in size is necessary.

As fuel costs and commodity costs have greatly increased I wonder if midsize cars will now start shrinking in size?

In the case of the Mazda6 this will not happen any time soon as the new design was just introduced, Mazda3 is showing up soon and is larger than previous 3, and Mazda2 will be slotted below the 3.

I just sat in the new Mazda6.
This is a Lexus ES350 competitor.
Luxury materials throughout, for front and rear seats. Super plush and comfortable. Top of the class. Blows away the Lexus ES350.

This car is plenty big and very cheap at $30,000, way undercuts the competition.

Did I mention the passenger seat is also a powered seat?
This thing totally rocks the Passat, ES 350.
I bet it may even beat the new Acura TL, with the new TL looking so iffy on the exterior.
I'd say it's as good as an Audi A4.
This car is dirt cheap.

Oh my god fully loaded the Mazda6 is only $33,803!
Compared to:
Audi A6: $43,240
Lexus ES 350: $42,385
Acura TL (current): $38,985
VW Passat: $37,850

"This is a Lexus ES350 competitor."

Mazda supposed to be a FMC sport division. Lexus ES competitor actually is Lincoln MKZ, not Mazda6. And Ford Fusion is a true Camry competitor. What message Ford sends with new Mazda6? Is it now Mercury replacement, kind of premium brand between Ford and Lincoln? Mazda has a boy-racer image – who is going to buy “premium” Mazda? They only niche left in Ford’s lineup is sporty FWD car, which Mazda successfully filled so far. They already tried “Camry competitor” trick with Mazda 626 and failed. BTW I also do not understand why Mazda needsV6 3.7L. What it really need is I4 turbo engine.

I do not like new Mazda6 looks - it is less elegant .

bill, why not just get a used CPO 2007 G35 for 26k and get a car with a better warranty, better made, better performance, 6 speed - the same gas mileage (17/25)?

As for mileage:
Camry 19/28
Accord 19/29
Sonata 19/28
Altima 19/26*
Mazda6 17/25
Passat 2.0T 21/29

So really of the Mazda6 V6's real competitors (american cars aren't competitors with anybody) it's better than...yeah none of the above. That's pretty sad as it's the only car that's new for 2009 in that bunch.

blueguydotcom,
I can't argue with that. For $26k everyone should drive a 2007 G35.

The G35 lacks a backseat adults can fit in, but I agree I was REALLY surprised when I sat in the MZ6, the leather was great, the only downside was the cheap handbrake. The rest was simple and easy to read, with excellent use of materials, for the cash it can only be beat by the Sonata Limited. I was really impressed, they put the soft touch materials where they belonged, the plastic around the gauges, where no one should be regularly touching, is hard, but the airbag area is nicely firmly padded, the leather was very soft, and the little shelf for the BSM switch had a great feel to it.

If you guys think the leather in the Mazda6 is great you might need to shop outside of Mazda. That's some cheap-cardboardy leather.

Regardless, adult males - with the exception of the IS - car ride in the back seat of any midsize family and entry-lux car. I guess I can't see the value prop in the Mazda6 V6.

For 28k you get a car with a so-so automatic, powerful V6, average-to-bad mileage, decent interior, middling handling on par with current family sedans and a wretched 3 year/36k warranty.

For that same money you can easily slide into a CPO 2-3 year old from Lexus, Infiniti, Caddy, BMW, Acura, MB and get a whole chunk of better driving cars and in many cases carrying better warranties. A BMW or Infiniti CPO eclipses the Mazda6 on most fronts.

blueguydotcom
Have you been in the Mazda6?
Why are we comparing USED cars to new? The Bumper To Bumper is 3/36K to a powertrain warranty of 5/60K, the interior is great for the money. The automatic is just fine too.

Sorry but I fail to see the fail to see why used 2-3 year old cars are being compared to new cars.

My brother wants to check out the 6 tomorrow so I'll give me impressions after that encounter.

The Mazda6 V6 is overkill in my opinion. Any midsized car that gets worse mileage than the Malibu/Aura is not acceptable in this class. On top of that, despite 20 more hp, more torque and lighter weight, it's still not really faster than the GM twins. Plus the 3.6L has superior torque down low. I think the 6 I-4 is a much better proposition as it's competitive in mileage and price. Certain people have sworn up and down that Mazda's aisin sourced automatics are hands down superior than the Ford/GM sourced 6 spd yet Karl still found objectionable qualities to the transmission's performance. Maybe that rhetoric will finally be put to rest.

The real advantage of the 6 over the others is the amount of high end features you can get. No other car in the class has Rain sensing wipers or the blind spot system. Only the Altima has option HIDs besides the 6 and the Accord, Altima, Carmy and Sonata tie with offering nav.

I'd say it's more of an Accord-ization. Sportier than most, a touch of road noise. I wish it was a little sharper, but to me, it's still the best in the category by virtue of looks alone. Current Accord and Camry are just plain weird.

cx7lover, I drove the 2009 Mazda6 V6 - it's simply not worth what they're charging.

Do a search at Infiniti dealers. I pulled up Cerritos Infiniti last night - 28k for a 2008 G35 4DR. That's a CPO with less than 15k miles. The car comes with a better warranty (remainder of 4/60k bumper-to-bumper and then another 2 years or 100k miles total), handles better, is built better, feels more luxurious, easily outperforms the 6.

Question is, why would anyone opt for a banal Mazda6 V6 for 28k when they can get a better year-old car for the same money and it comes with a better warranty?

Does anyone actualy pay 28k for the Mazda6 V6, or any Mazda6? The dealer near me has 3 new 2007 Mazda6's (including a MS6) for sale, not couting the 14 "CPO" 2007 Mazda6's with less than 30 miles on the clock. For an idea of scale, the same dealer has 8 2009s and 10 2008s. I suspect you can get these for a screaming steal.

Have you ever tried to fit people in the back seat? I mean it's smaller than the RX-8 for christ sake, why the F? do you insist on comparing that G35 USED! To a NEW car? You've yet to answer that one, not even mentioning how high the insurance is on G35's, and how much smaller they are.

Sounds like the G35 is just a little over priced compared to a used 2002 M5 no? It's a little overpriced too I just saw a GEO on sale for 2K, why not get one of those gems? The G35 doesn't even come equipped the same as a V6 6 for 28K. You lack any sort equality. Only a moron would compare a midsize family sedan to a sport sedan, a USED one at that!!

f those? I've been in new G35's and the interior is small and it stinks something awful, luxurious it is not, liar.

cx7lover, whoa, have you been in a G35?
The G35 is a fully midsized sedan. The G35 is identical in size to the BMW 5-series. There's loads of room for a full sized adult in the back.

That said, the base G35 has 6-speakers, no nav, no moonroof.
So a Mazda6, loaded, would probably be cheaper, as you don't ever pay close to MSRP for a Mazda.

Did I mention the G35 is the SAME SIZE as a BMW 5-series? It's freakin huge.

if you are into RWD and badge prestige you could argue that a used G35 is a better buy than ANY V6 powered FWD sedan. There is no point in singling out the 6. Also, the G35s interior isnt all that so I am lost as to why BDC keeps saying you are getting a much higher quality car with the G35. I am willing to bet the 6's interior feels just as good as the G35's. The G35's interior isnt up to par compared to the CTS, TL, 335 or A4.

The best part about this car are the styling, rear seat and trunk space and features. Its definiely a better buy than the overpriced Maxima or 2009 TL. The TL only offers a handful of features that the 6 lacks and will likely cost about $5k more. This could be my next car.

"Only the Altima has option HIDs besides the 6 and the Accord, Altima, Carmy and Sonata tie with offering nav."

Plus none of those cars offer 18s and memory seats.

"Have you ever tried to fit people in the back seat? I mean it's smaller than the RX-8 for christ sake,"

Well that's just not true. Apparently, you've not been in the back of a 2007-2009 G35.

"why the F? do you insist on comparing that G35 USED! To a NEW car? You've yet to answer that one, not even mentioning how high the insurance is on G35's, and how much smaller they are."

Same price, better warranty on the G, serves the same purpose. you're acting like used cars are somehow deficient compared to new. 4 solid reasons to pick a used CPO over a new Mazda6:

1. Depreciation - the Mazda6 will tumble like a rock in the next few years - as all Mazdas do. The G35 has suffered its largest depreciation of its automotive life.
2. Infiniti has a better warranty - remainder of 4/60k B2B (3 years, 35k) PLUS 2 years 40k miles with $50 deductible.
3. Same function/size - check out the exrerior and interior stuff.
4. G35 outperforms the Mazda6 in every driving metric. Not even close.

"The G35 doesn't even come equipped the same as a V6 6 for 28K. You lack any sort equality. Only a moron would compare a midsize family sedan to a sport sedan, a USED one at that!!"

1. V6
2. Seats 5
3. Leather interior
4. Power everything
5. Keyless entry/start
6. HIDs
7. Moonroof
8. Automatic
9. Sedans

Admittedly, the G35 will dance all over the Mazda6 in straightline performance, roadfeel, handling, dealer service, longterm reliability, rear seat AC, aluminum trim,. But you know the Mazda6 V6 GT does have bluetooth...lol

"Depreciation - the Mazda6 will tumble like a rock in the next few years - as all Mazdas do."
The selling price isn't even near the MSRP. Just like the domestic cars. depreciation is dumb to look at as I don't believe they look at the actual drive out price of the car.

First year depreciation is the same as 2nd year, or 3rd year, or 4th year. Because you don't pay MSRP, especially on a non-luxury brand car.

And I still don't understand why depreciation is a consideration of any car buyer. That's a dealer's selling tool. It only matters for the dealer to make them more money.

"The G35's interior isnt up to par compared to the CTS, TL, 335 or A4."

Just to post this to make some more enemies...
I can't get over the laughter when I squish the chrome trim of the CTS's gauge cluster. hahahahahaahahahaha.... good times.

1487, go take a look at the Mazda 6 V6 GT - the door handles inside the car are gray painted plastic. The interior accents are shiny painted plastic gray & black faux wood. The leather feels just like the Mazda3 - cheap cardboard.

The best part of the Mazda6's interior - the small, meaty steering wheel. It leads one to conclude the 6 might be a sporty drive. Of course, driving it, one learns differently.

Bill, first year depreciation is the same? Huh? First year you tend to see 20-25% drop from MSRP. Across the board. Only a handful of cars are immune to this.

Mazda 6 V6 GT sticker = 28k. We'll say you negotiate 2k off it. So you pay 26k.

A used CPO on a dealer lot with a sticker of 28k, it's safe to assume you too will be able to get 2k off that price. So 26k.

The big difference - the Mazda6 will be worth about 21k at the end of year one - 25% drop from MSRP. Residual values on Mazda6s is atrocious. For a 3 year owner, the Mazda6 will be a bath. At best it'll be worth about 15.5k three years from purchase (55% of MSRP).

Oh and you're out of warranty at only 36k miles on the Mazda6, so about 30 months into ownership the Mazda6 lacks a warranty.

Thanks very much for your opinions, Karl. I've seen the car at a dealership but haven't driven it yet. Although I prefer the old model's styling, especially with the sport kit, I really like the new model too. The interior of the GT is just awesome!

While I understand Mazda "CamCording" the Mazda 6, I still think it is really disappointing that it's only as sporty as the Altima/Accord. They should have done better, really.... Ana I believe they should bring back the manual on the V6. My thinking is that the Accord and Camry have some "tradition" behind them (legendary reliability and high value retention) and so Mazda should have enforced the tradition of sportiness in the new 6..... being as sporty as the Accord and Altima is not good enough.

So, Karl, between the Accord, Altima and 6, which would you choose?

Tough to call without back-to-back drives of all three. They've changed so much in that last two years and I haven't driven them all together in that time.

My guess would be I'd go Accord simply because I still like Honda's steering feel and drivetrain characteristics (torguey and great sound) best, but that's just a guess. I wish the Accord didn't have the busy center stack controls, but that's my only complaint with that car (I know plenty of people hate the styling or think it's too big, but I don't have either of those issues with the Honda).

But the Mazda is very nice. Really like it's interior (possibly the best seats in the segment).

blueguy,

"...of the Mazda6 V6's real competitors (american cars aren't competitors with anybody) "

American cars aren't competitive? Hoo boy, I'm disappointed there weren't any fireworks between you and 1487.

And you sent in a 200hp Passat to do battle with 270hp CamCordAlti6's? If comparing a used car with a new car wasn't enough, now I know you're really off your rocker. 1487's right, if you're going to compare against a G35, you may as well dismiss all FWD sedans, not just the 6.

And the reason you left the Galant and Legacy off of the V6 midsizers list?

Anyway, the Altima burns premium, so there goes some of its supposed mileage advantage right there. You're swapping out 23hp and 40lb-ft of torque in the Sonata for the mileage. The Accord uses VCM, which while a clever trick does have some trade-offs.So really, the only one left on your list without excuses is the Camry. And I already said it: the 2GR-FE is just a great engine, spec-wise. The Duratec 37 can't touch it, but then again nobody else can either.

"1487, go take a look at the Mazda 6 V6 GT - the door handles inside the car are gray painted plastic. The interior accents are shiny painted plastic gray & black faux wood. The leather feels just like the Mazda3 - cheap cardboard. "

As I said, the inteior is probably better than the G35. The G35 has a Nissan interior, period. In fact, the new MAxima has a better interior than the G35 based on what I've seen. I'm not quite sure why you think a car that starts at $20k should exceed a car that starts at $32k in quality but I'm sure you have an excuse ready.

"American cars aren't competitive? Hoo boy, I'm disappointed there weren't any fireworks between you and 1487."

I dont really expect and credible statements from him. If it's not a 2500lb BMW or Mini he doesnt like it. Nothing new here. This is a guy who I assume is a car fan but cant come up with anyting positive to say about 99% of the cars discussed here. He has said numerous times that he hates American cars and doesn't care about their styling, performance, value or anything else. What are you supposed to do with that?

"So, Karl, between the Accord, Altima and 6, which would you choose?"

I cant believe you had to ask that one.

I'm willing to bet the Mazda6 now has a perfect blend of ride and handling (and I hope the next gen 3 follows suit) and I will find out tomorrow. It looks like Mazda has finally come to their senses by toning done the "zoom zoom" factor so families can actually enjoy a ride in the car without sensory overload. On paper, I can't see why anyone would chose the Accord over the 6 being as though the only clear advantage is mileage. The exterior styling/interior layout of the 6 is vastly superior the Accord as are the features. 18"s, memory, HIDs, rain sense, 6spd- manumatic, etc. If only Mazda hadn't wasted its time installing the 3.7L in the car... the 3.5L would've likely returned better fuel economy. Then again, why the hell does Nissan want us to put premium in the Altima so I guess it's a toss up.

Mazda6 positives:

Meaty steering wheel
HIDs
Smooth, powerful engine
Powerful HVAC

:)

"If only Mazda hadn't wasted its time installing the 3.7L in the car... the 3.5L would've likely returned better fuel economy. Then again, why the hell does Nissan want us to put premium in the Altima so I guess it's a toss up."

It doesnt matter because 70-80% of the cars in this class are sold with I-4s anyway. The V6 is an indulgence for most people so comparing I-4 mileage is what's critical. With regards to real world V6 fuel economy you are talking a difference of 2mpg between the best in class and worst. The accord V6 is only averaging 21mpg in mixed driving in MT and IL's long term fleets in spite of the great EPA ratings. If I could get a 6 V6 for a few grand less than an Accord or Camry I would take the hit in fuel economy.

3.7L gets slightly better MPG, it went up one in the CX-9 when it replaced the 3.5L. Everyone thinks smaller is more fuel efficient and it bugs me because that isn't even the case in the slightest.

"1487, go take a look at the Mazda 6 V6 GT - the door handles inside the car are gray painted plastic. The interior accents are shiny painted plastic gray & black faux wood. The leather feels just like the Mazda3 - cheap cardboard. "

The door handles are Chrome. The window switch area is dark gray, you weren't in a GT V6 6. The leather is not the same hide as in the CX-7/9 or MAZDA 5/3.

The new MAZDA's have good sticker depreciation, factor in the FACT that no one in their right mind has to pay sticker for a MAZDA and the real "loss" is quite irrelevant. The MAZDA3/5 suffers from good resale value. My 07 MAZDA lost 6K off of it's sticker, and I got it for under invoice.

cx7 - I drove the car. The handle that you use to close the door is gray painted plastic - it's exactly the same handle you rest your left arm on while driving the car. Gray painted plastic. Smooth. Cheap Just like the plasticky-"leather" that's in the Mazda6. It may not be the same "leather" as the Mazda3 but it feels just as cheap.

As for resale, the Mazda6 has lousy resale. The lease guide gives you an idea of expected depreciation.

"3.7L gets slightly better MPG, it went up one in the CX-9 when it replaced the 3.5L. Everyone thinks smaller is more fuel efficient and it bugs me because that isn't even the case in the slightest."

WRONG. You clearly don't understand physics. More displacement moves higher mass more efficiently than less displacement- with all variables being equal, but the opposite is not true. Example- if you replaced Enclave's V6 with a 6.2L V8 from an Escalade, the mileage would probably be the same. However, if you installed the 3.6L V6 in the Caddy, the mileage would drop. The CX-9 weighs ~ 1000 lbs more than a 6 so the extra displacement is wasted on the sedan. I guarantee you the 3.5L would earn better economy in the 6. Heck, Mazda would've done better installing the Duratec35 straight from Taurus which gets great EPA mileage in a heavier package.

1487- I see your point but I still wouldn't want the honors of having the worst EPA mileage in the class. That just looks bad on the stat sheet. I could see if the car were ripping off sub 6 sec 0-60 times, but it ain't. Granted, I'd still take this car over the hideous Accord any day of the week.

"3.7L gets slightly better MPG, it went up one in the CX-9 when it replaced the 3.5L. Everyone thinks smaller is more fuel efficient and it bugs me because that isn't even the case in the slightest."

WRONG. You clearly don't understand physics. More displacement moves higher mass more efficiently than less displacement- with all variables being equal, but the opposite is not true. That's one of the reasons the CX-9 achieves slightly better mileage- the increased torque keeps the engine from working as hard at any given speed. The CX-9 weighs ~ 1000 lbs more than a 6 so the extra displacement is wasted on the sedan. I guarantee you the 3.5L would earn better economy in the 6. Heck, Mazda would've done better installing the Duratec35 straight from Taurus which gets great EPA mileage in a heavier package.

1487- I see your point but I still wouldn't want the honors of having the worst EPA mileage in the class. That just looks bad on the stat sheet. I could see if the car were ripping off sub 6 sec 0-60 times, but it ain't. Granted, I'd still take this car over the hideous Accord any day of the week.

Where is the edit function???? sheesh... disregard the second post.

blue
orly? that's all I have to say to anything you say because you completely ignore the facts. You can't compare a used car to a new one, no matter how you want to hash it. The G35 has smaller legroom, hiproom, and shoulder room, not even taking in knee clearance which is where the G35 is lacking, and the trunk is smaller, it's a smaller car.

To elaborate more on what I said, the stroke in the 3.7L is the same as the stroke in the 3.5L.

cx7,

People can compare new to used. I've done it. Been quite happy with the result too. We looked at 2007 A3s last year. At 31k the car was ridiculously priced. We found a used one with less than 12k miles on it and got the same vehicle for 22k. What did we lose? 1.5 years of the warranty. Is that worth 9 grand?

Most folks shop seem to shop layout/needs and price - or at least price range and layout/needs. Yes, some shop payment but I think you'd agree people with the dough for a 28k car may be looking for a set of features/needs that fall within a price range.

Some buyers may even look at the current model year version of a car and realize the 1-3 year old used model is the same (not in the case of the Mazda6) so the savings can be quite huge and get the buyer about the same car.

Cars today are lasting longer than ever before and are far more trouble-free than they were even 10 years ago. If 40% of 10 year-old cars are still on the road today, imagine those number for 2008 vehicles.

Maybe this aversion to used is dependent on region? I would be less inclined to buy used if a car were driven in say Ohio or Indiana or the Northeast.

As for the space, I'll check later but I would guess the differences are an inch or so at each space. Honestly, I've ridden in the back of the G35 and found it plenty big. Once you've been forced to ride in the back of a Camaro from Sacramento to Seattle, the back of even a cramped car like an IS250 seems huge!

Inch or so? Off the top of my head I know the G35 is at least four inches smaller in rear hiproom.

JUST because you're fine with buying a used car over a new does NOT mean you can compare it to a new car as equal, or try to bring it up as a better value. A used car is NOT a new car! Wait 6 months and come back with used 2009 6's prices, I already know they'll be in the 24K range for a GT V6.

2009 Mazda6-
Passenger volume: 101.9
Cargo volume: 16.6
Total volume: 118.5

2008 Infiniti G35 sedan-
Passenger volume: 96.5
Cargo volume: 13.5
Total volume: 110

If I had a family of four, I'd rather have those extra 8.5 cubic feet.

But I really feel these comparisons have gotten out of hand. The Mazda6 competes with the Accord/Altima/Camry/Malibu/Fusion etc. group. Mid-sized, FWD, non-premium family sedans. It's a car that has a starting price of under $20k. It was not designed to compete with cars wearing premium badges.

I looked at a 2009 Mazda6 Grand Touring during a brief visit to a Mazda dealer last week during our Miata club's Ferris Bueller's Day Off run. What I found was a car that was vastly superior to the outgoing model in terms of interior space, material quality, and fit/finish.

I didn't find anything wrong with the leather. Sure, it's not as nice as the leather in my S60, but should it? One has to keep that in mind when looking at cars with two completely different price points. My Volvo also has brushed aluminum door handles, and any accents that look like aluminum really are aluminum; the car also has realy wood inlays. But all that comes with the bigger price (and not-so-friendly temperature when the car has been sitting in the sun all day).

The question is does the new Mazda6 compete well with other cars in its class? Will I find plastic door handles on other cars in its class? Will I find less-than-premium leather on other cars in its class? Will I find that a used car will be a better deal than other cars in its class? The answer to all of those questions is "yes."

It sounds to me that those complaining about the new Mazda6's lack of premium materials will never be happy with a car lacking a premium badge or price. So why slaughter this car? This is a car designed for family duty with a little extra for the driver. It's a proven recipe for success, and the Mazda6 is supposed to be Mazda's bread and butter.

And to answer some other questions...
-Manual w/ V6: Tried before, didn't sell
-Turbo 4: Tried before, didn't sell
-Other body styles: Tried before, didn't sell
-Sport over comfort: Tried before, didn't sell

And in today's automotive market, there's no room for models that don't sell. If the new Mazda6 sells as poorly as the old one did, Mazda is in big trouble.

2009 Mazda6:
Passenger volume: 101.9 cu ft (w/o moonroof)
Cargo volume: 16.6 cu ft
Legroom: 42.5/38 = 80.5"
Hiproom: 55.1/55.9
Shoulder room: 57.3/56.5

2008 G35 sedan:
Passenger volume: 99 cu ft (w/o moonroof)
Cargo volume: 13.5 cu ft, nonfolding rear seats.
Total volume: 110
Legroom: 43.9/34.7 = 78.6"
Hiproom: 55.1/53.7
Shoulder room: 55.6/55.2

So glaringly, obviously from these stats the G35 is far superior. Because they're close enough, and the rest of the car is woooooow.

The Mazda6 is way too superior to compete with the Accord/Camry/Altima/Malibu/Fusion/Sebring.
Passat, Passat CC, ok. The others in the class are simply uncompetitive.
Except if you LOOOOOOOVE MPG and will DIE for it. In that case you should get a Toyota Prius. Because Toyota is Mother Earth's Best Friend Forever.

Talking about the Passat CC, boy what a rip off. You can get a similar Mazda6 for much cheaper, and less bland.

So the lesson today is, buy a Toyota so people don't have heated arguments about your ride.

What you're all disregarding is the EXPENSIVE insurance & upkeep, and the fact that it's an 07, not an 09. Excuse my comment about the hip room, I crossed that with the leg room.

Edmunds should do a comparison test of
Mazda6s GT vs Accord EX-L V6 vs Passat VR6 vs Acura TL vs Lexus ES 350.
I'd like to see where the Lexus ES 350 places in that list. Is this just plain Lexus bashing?

cx7, It's a 2008 G35 with 15k miles for 28k :)

So, I'm looking at the dimensions and beyond trunk, I'm not seeing a huge gap. The G's got a lil'bit more front legroom, less rear legroom, less rear hip room (two whole inches! - call the ACLU about this machine of torture) and two whole inches less shoulder room.
Of course, other numbers that matter to me:

Mazda6
0 - 60 (sec): 6.4
0 - 75 (sec): 9.3
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 14.6 @ 96.5
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.1
60 - 0 (ft): 127
Braking Rating: Average
Slalom (mph): 66.2
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.81

2008 G35 -
0 - 60 (sec): 5.6
0 - 75 (sec): 8.0
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.9 @ 102.1
60 - 0 (ft): 112
Braking Rating: Excellent
Slalom (mph): 67.10
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): .85

Why does it matter? Because every day those numbers will play a part in my drive. Every moment I'm in the car, the handling, acceleration and braking make a difference in how I enjoy a car.

Once in awhile I might have 4 adults in the car - 2 males, 2 females. Once in an extremely unusual circumstance (like maybe once a year) I might have 4 adult males in my car and in that once in a great while the two guys in back might be uncomfortable. I don't care because wherever we're going it's less than 15 minutes; I'm not driving 3 other guys to LA or Vegas or anywhere long distance. I can't ever see a circumstance where 3 adult males are in my car for an extended period of time... There will be a kid in back and until that kid is a teen, that backseat will be positively massive. Really, the car will be long gone by then (and the kid will be riding in something with a far smaller backseat).

Cx7, we're never going to agree. I think it's insanely naive to think you can't cross-shop anything and everything sold. Maybe you're stuck on new, maybe price is a sticking point, maybe a need for AWD. We all have different priorities. Upon driving the Mazda6 I found the car met only a few of my priorities:

1. 4 door sedan/wagon
2. Not American

It missed on most important factor when picking any car: fun. :)

"And to answer some other questions...
-Manual w/ V6: Tried before, didn't sell
-Turbo 4: Tried before, didn't sell
-Other body styles: Tried before, didn't sell
-Sport over comfort: Tried before, didn't sell"

jstfander, I don't know if it's as simple as that For example, the Passat has a Turbo I-4 that sells, so if the Mazdaspeed 6 didn't sell, then then there must have been other reasons why.
As for the manual with V6 and the other body styles, I believe that while they may not sell much, they enhance the image of the model. Having a hatchback and a wagon emphasises the point that the Mazda 6 is something different, and would lead to more people wanting it.......especially now that it seems to be a great family car. The manual V6 would also enhance the zoom-zoom in the same way.

Now with no hatchback, wagon and/or manual V6, and not to forget class-lagging fuel economy, the Mazda 6 is just like any mid-sized sedan out there! Styling aside, why wouldn't one buy the Accord and Altima instead, as they retain value better?

I really feel that Mazda has made a strategic mistake by softening up the Mazda 6 and removing all the variants (V6 manual, hatchback, wagon). Now it's no longer unique. It is now a great and stylish family sedan but with no "tradition" or image....

Look at BMW. It's safe to say that most US buyers don't care for the driving dynamics or the manual versions, so BMW should only sell auto 3-series with Audi levels of handling. But they don't. Why? It would be a great mistake. I believe Mazda are making the same mistake with the 6......

BMW's sell on the name alone, but I agree somewhat with the desensitizing of the 6. The interior is great, and the handling is still there.

V6 manual, hatchback, wagon

You just named the poorest selling variants of the Mazda6, sure it's nice to say that they have one, but they didn't sell to this particular market and it's not smart to invest time and money on building cars that sit on lots.

Again, MAZDASPEED will be there with all of the stuff you need, at your dealer, and 100% covered by MAZDA.

MS6 didn't sell because it was too expensive, the old 6 didn't sell because it was too small.

The only reason why we don't agree is because you're ignoring the fact that the G35 you mentioned is a year old, not comparably equipped and expensive as hell to own. Stop looking at the sticker price and look at the true cost to own one of those money pits. Insurance alone is enough to put me in something else. Compared to my A4 the same coverage is 700 more per 6 months= NO thanks.

cx7, how are they not comparably equipped? The Mazda6's only feature that stands out a little is bluetooth. Otherwise, it's got the same basic junk as everything else - power windows/doors/mirrors, automatic (which is a negative), leather, moonroof (another negative), V6, 4 doors, sedans, midsize. What is on the Mazda6 that's got you so enamored? I drove it, looked it over and felt there was nothing special about it. What are these features on the 6 that are so unique?

How much is insurance on your A4? I checked edmunds TCO indicator on cars I own or have owned and they always list an insurance price that's 50-60% higher than my yearly premiums. I find it impossible to believe anything in this class of boring sedan/entry lux land barge runs over $1000 a year. You're telling me a G35 is $1400 above what another car in the class costs...that'd put it at over 2k a year for car insurance? Egad!

Happened to catch this post just now; interesting comments.

Three quick thoughts:

(1) Billt9, dude, the 6 is not an ES350 competitor. It's a strong contender for best-in-class honors, but the luxurious ES plays in the next league up (and has a markedly superior powertrain, incidentally, though the 6 will of course run circles around it in the slalom, which ES buyers don't give a hoot about).

(2) Having driven basically every family sedan on the planet over the past couple months, for me it's no contest -- the Altima is the best-handling family sedan, hands down. Best steering weighting/feel/communicativeness, best body control, most tossable in corners.

As for the Accord? I'd rank it a distant fourth in the handling race, behind the Altima, 6 and Fusion/Milan. Fusion moves up to 2nd place with the "Sport Appearance Package." Accord is just too big and soft and roll-happy to be entertaining.

I should post about this in the LT blog actually; too many people still think that the Accord is a relatively sporty choice. It ain't -- not anymore.

(3) Blueguy -- what's this about the 6 not being American? It's built at the Mustang plant in Arkansas. Thing's as American as a big coarse V6. :D

-Sadlier

I went directly online to my progressive account and did a quote.

ANYWAY

The 08 G35 base lacks a folding rear seat, heated seats, memory seats, auto dimming rear view, rain sensing wipers, heated exterior mirrors, an extra gear, and other things like BSM, a bigger trunk, etc. and I will bet money that it doesn't ride as firm as the G35 among other things. Expensive dealer visits and AGAIN, expensive insurance due to through the roof costs in low speed crashes, and repair costs for all others. The "savings" anyone nets on the G35 will be lost once they get it insured My A4 is a sport sedan, albiet small, is still in the same ball park as my CX-7. The G35 is at least $700-$900 more than both PER six months, even skimping on the coverage a little. That's thousands of dollars in 5 years in case you didn't know.

cx7, $700-900 extra on my insurance per 6 months would be a tripling of my annual insurance premiums. No offense but do you have some points or accidents on your record?

We've beat this to death. The Mazda6 was on my list of interest and fell off. The "extras" you mentioned do not interest me - worthless junk that doesn't improve a car. In the end the Mazda6 isn't fun enough as a daily driver.

No offense but your reasoning is ass. Daily driving and you're pulling around a skid-pad and running from red light to red light? You need a car for daily driving yet you're buying a G35? Are you serious? Oh wait, just stupid. Worthless numbers like how it performs around a skidpad means nothing in "daily driving", your entire reasoning for getting a G35 is completely asinine.

O hai my name is blueguydotcom and LOL I'm looking for car, u have a used G35 sport sedan so I can compare it to a new Mazda6 family sedan as if they're equals, OMG? It almost cost the same as used car!!! how new car cost the same as used base G35!? it not even better handler! I go with new G35 because daily driving it better and more fun! and it cost the same to! i dont like mazda6 it not better than G35! i'll tell people i made this comparison because im so smart! I just found out the new car costs the same as used car that handles better and accelerates better to! O and I really dont want the stuf in the grand touring, but ill compare them anyway to make try and make a point! let me stop at hummer dealer on way home jus ncase hummer better than G35 u no sense it go off road better than G35 o n I mite look @ teh saturn sky redline to it fast and handle good it should be good daily driver 2!!!!!!

Why compare a GT with all of the extras if you didn't want them? What are you trying to prove, that you can contradict yourself? Why not compare the S sport or S touring? Once again, you fail.

I live in a "high risk" area and have one accident on my driving record. I have 100 dollar deductibles and a 100K CSL. The fact of the matter is is that the G35 costs more to insure, of course you would try to discredit it by saying you don't pay much for car insurance, too bad that wasn't the point, the point was that the G35 is more expensive to insure thanks to tests done by the IIHS.

Wow Cx7,

Some of us live in areas where we can exploit a car's handling on a daily basis. Karl often discusses runs on some of LA's exceptional roads near his home - Laurel Canyon area for example. Sorry if this sounds unsafe to you. And I'm sorry that you believe when one has a family one must drive something bland.

Some reading on used v. new (assuming you're done berating me):

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-02-27-forbes-certified-used-cars_N.htm

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/25083305/

Have a really nice day and I hope it gets better for you.

Blueguy, you must be one of the luckiest people in the world to live near a canyon. Most of us live in areas where exploiting a car's handling limits is just impossible or impractical. I'm not saying fun-to-drive is not an important factor......all I'm saying is that daily driving for most of us just daily driving and serious fun driving are almost two separate things. That's largely whycars like the Camry sell well....

Blueguy and cx7lover, you're both wrong and both right. A person can definitely cross-shop a G35 and a Mazda 6.......or any two vehicles for that matter. But that doesn't make them competitors. They may both be 4-door sedans that can serve as family cars, but they are made for two different markets and have different strengths. To expect a Mazda 6 to be as sporty as a G35 is pointless, so if that's why you were cross-shopping them, well, what did you expect?

Cx7lover, are you sure there's going to be a Mazdaspeed 6 for the US?

I never said he couldn't cross shop them, but to try and discredit the car because it's not as sporting as a G35 and costs the same NEW as a used base model is just wrong. Then he goes on to say he doesn't need all the "extras" found only in the GT 6, wtf?

Oh and I didn't say there would be another MS6, but MAZDASPEED aftermarket which is from MAZDA, will have parts available at your MAZDA dealer to install on the new 6, to make it more sporty.

The MS6 is unlikely due to how poor it sold..

Blackadder,

The last gen Mazda6 had a legitimately sporty feel. Like the dearly departed Protege, there was a connection from the tires to the steering wheel. The suspension, chassis and everything played together giving the driver a sense of a lively car that communicated with the driver. Really, had the last gen 6 had a nice dose of power (the Mazdaspeed6 was an abomination with all its weight, clunky AWD and cheese-ball gearing, lousy peaky-turbo) they could've snagged my money.

I was hopping the new 6 had maintained the connected feel and Mada had simply improved other aspects of the car (things that didn't need much changing - like room, interior materials). The friday before I drove the new 6 I read Edmunds' review and felt my heart sink. They went on and on about improvements and then compared the handling to an Altima.

I drove it and left unimpressed. It did not feel dialed-in. The essence of what made Mazdas fun - the weird almost-BMW-like symbiotic relationship between man and machine felt gone. No roadfeel. No sound from the engine. Numb on-center steering. Slow turn-in. What made the last gen Mazda6 special had been yanked out in favor of the Camcordization that most americans like. This has happened with the e9x BMW and the current G35 as well. The new IS came out specifically aimed at delivering the numb-disconnected feel.

I left feeling the Mazda6, like most cars sold, isn't worth any amount of my money. I would rather buy a used car that relays what I want.

The GT is what I drove and thus compared that to everything else I'd consider. The 4 cylinder is out of the question as my Cooper S has about the same power and it's woefully underpowered. The GT has something standard I want no matter what: HIDs. The touring would require me to get the convenience package - pushing the price to $27,455. At that point, I felt fine just pushing into the GT to get integrated bluetooth (CA has a handsfree law). Shrug, it's only another $1500. And we have s-plan pricing. Give it 4 months and like any Mazda it'll have a fat 2-3k cashback incentive...

The irony of the back and forth about the G35 - I can't see myself buying one! We drove the latest gen in 2007 and I didn't like it. I'm still holding out to try the Ralliart and 09 WRX. If all else fails, I'll just suck it up and get an e90 until our baby boy is 3 or 4 years old and then switch to something more in line with what I want out of a car (sadly, the Cayman or Z4 coupe still won't be an option).

blueguy, Have you written off the Clubman S? For $28k-ish, it may not drive as well as the G35, but the mileage is a lot better and its a helluva lot more interesting than any 3-box family sedan.

The irony of the back and forth about the G35 - I can't see myself buying one!

I can only say wow. WHAT A GREAT VALUE IT WAS!!!!!! WHAT HAPPENED? WAS THE HANDLING NOT GOOD ENOUGH? DON'T TELL ME IT WASN'T FAST ENOUGH!

Mazda's only have cash back incentives at year ends. Get a last gen 6 if you liked it so much, I've driven one and I hated it. Of course you would find something to bitch about, oh I liked the handling but its not powerful enough! The last gen wasn't even that great of a handler, it had a nasty float despite crashing on expansion joints.

Now here you go talking off at the mouth again, do you realize the Ralliart is nearly the SAME in weight to the MS6?? Blows my mind how you step on your words constantly, it really looks like you don't know what you're talking about. The V6 6 is also coarse at WOT, so again, what are you talking about? Did you drive a 6? Maybe not? If you want HIDS the standard halogen projectors are great for them. Is that not good enough for you? Probably isn't.

Sabastian,

The FWD is getting to me. The Cooper's still fun but through corners it just doesn't feel natural. I grew up driving RWD cars and every time I get a FWD I end up regretting the feel in corners.

On the clubman S the mileage is great, the room's fantastic, the layout's pretty solid (save for the lack of a 4th door and those silly barn doors). There are little annoyances though (FWD, bad HVAC, rough engine, frameless windows, no dealers, RFTs, Cult of Mini, the center console). Resale, of course, rocks and with a car that will surely be gone in 3-4 years, this should make a bigger difference. Luckily, my wife embraces my car addiction.

"....No roadfeel. No sound from the engine. Numb on-center steering....."

Blueguy, we should be brothers! LOL! As a Protege5 owner, I was so annoyed when I drove the Mazda 3 two years ago......it was just too quiet and refined, to the point that I was bored after 10 minutes of it! Even the gear lever (I test-drove the manual) seemed to lack direct connection to the transmission's internal gears.

Regarding the G35 and previous Mazda 6, I had assumed the G35 would be far more sportier just because it's a direct BMW competitor. But from your description that wasn't the case.....and I now understand what you mean.

I also had the same expectations of the new 6: that it would at least maintain the sporty nature of the previous gen. I haven't driven the new model yet, but from what I read from Edmunds' it's probably not worth driving it as far as sportiness is concerned.
I have also been considering a 2007 Mazda 6 manual as my next car instead of the current model.....
I really have no problem with Mazda reducing sportiness, but then they should stop claiming zoom-zoom. The sad thing is that, unless one goes for BMW or cars like the Evo, it appears there's no mainstream car that is genuine enough these days! All of them are over-refined: refinement is so over-rated......

It seems the whole industry is moving in the direction of over-refinement. They mistake "isolation" and "refinement" for "improvement"!

cx7lover, if the Mazdaspeed parts includes parts that would allow the new 6 to at least be as sporty as the old one, I'm so excited! They should also throw in the ability to get the V6 with the manual if the customer is willing to wait a reasonable amount of time (2 months) for the factory order!
And oh, Mazda 6 (both engines) should improve its fuel economy by 3 mpg. I really care for fuel economy, I think 31 mpg hwy for the 2-cyl and 28 mpg for the V6 is only appropriate.....If they can make the V6 get 23 mpg combined (and let me order the manual from the factory) I won't even consider the 4-cyl!

I saw the 6 in person and drove it briefly. Its definitely one of the best in class, if not the best. The V6 mileage is lacking but that is really the car's only weakness. It looks better than the Accord inside and out and has more room than any other car in this class. The trunk is huge as is the backseat. I thought the gauges were a little small and the steering wheel seems like it came from a Fit instead of a midsize car. The radio display is also a little 80s-ish for my taste. The complaints are minor and it's apparent that this is the best Japanese car in this class without a doubt. The interior is so far ahead of the camry that Toyota should be embarassed.

Unfortunately for Mazda this car will continue to struggle because the average american shopping in this class doesnt check out anything not named Altima, Camry or Accord. The merits of those cars are irrelevant, people just shop the familiar brands.

1487, we could be brothers too, or cousins (well, on this issue, at least).....my thoughts on the Mazda 6 are about the same as yours! I also checked out one at a dealership (although I didn't drive it). I thought the interior was superb and WAY better than the Accord's.
As a family car, the only criticism I have for it is the fuel economy, like you just said. I think the 4-cyl variants need 2 mpg more and the 6-cyl needs 3 or 4 mpg more.
My problem with the new model is the sportiness issue. The fact that it's no longer the handling leader, no longer a "poor man's BMW" is hugely disturbing.

"Unfortunately for Mazda this car will continue to struggle because the average american shopping in this class doesnt check out anything not named Altima, Camry or Accord."

Exactly! I'll add the Malibu to the mix. That's why Mazda need to make sure the steering feel and all the sportiness issues are fixed. They should also bring back the manual V6. No, the manual won't sell, but will enhance the zoom-zoom "poor man's BMW" image and add some "tradition" to the Mazda 6. What were Mazda thinking?

Guys, don't forget in the 90s the Altima wasn't really a strong contender either. Nissan revamped the Altima with the FFL platform and now that car does compete with the Camcord. Mazda may have created a legit contender in that segment...

This has been an entertaining discussion. The 6 is an interesting alternative to the ever-present Accord/Altima/Camry, and it sounds like this new model is pretty solid. The previous 6 was a little too stiff (ride and leatherwise) for me, but I did like the interior (although the plastics on the console are too cheap, imo).

I'm looking forward to examining the new 6 in more detail.

I agree on the nearly class leading comments, but the buying situation, people will pour into the Mazda dealers if they have a great product on their hands, have you heard of the MS3 and Mazda3/5? All three of those are hot sellers, along with the CX-9, given the goal Mazda set for it. The CX-7 was sorely lacking in MPG Vs the RAV-4 and CR-V and it beat Mazda's expectations sales goal when it was launched and when it sold in 2007 (expected 40K, sold about 42K)

Using your argument would contradict why the 3 nearly outsold the top seller Civic in Canada, why buy a Mazda when you can get a Honda? If they have the right stuff the people will come... The last 6 was poor in execution IMO, nasty interior and the NVH a lot needed work.

I just drove one and I thought the handling was very responsive.. I love the new 6 for what it is.

Cx7lover,

"If they have the right stuff the people will come......"

I guess only time will tell, but it the new 6 the "right stuff"? I'm not so sure. Great family car, but unlike the 3, 5, CX-7, CX-9 and MS3, it isn't class-leading in terms of sportiness.

"The CX-7 was sorely lacking in MPG Vs the RAV-4 and CR-V and it beat Mazda's expectations sales goal......."

Two things. Firstly, mpg matters much more in the mid-size sedan segment than in the CUV segment.
Besides, I'm sure 40k isn't a great target. Maybe the only reason it appears to have done well is the low expectations? Who knows how well it would have sold if it had the RAV4's fuel economy?

"Using your argument would contradict why the 3 nearly outsold the top seller Civic in Canada, why buy a Mazda when you can get a Honda?"

I've been to Canada recently and Mazdas are very popular there, far more so than in the US. I can't pretend to know why..... So it might not be a great idea to use the Canadian market to make predictions for the US.

"The last 6 was poor in execution IMO, nasty interior and the NVH a lot needed work....."

Yes and no. The interior was certainly beautiful, and the car, although stiff, was pretty refined. (I test-drove it myself so I know what I'm talking about.....most reviews also said the V6 was a smooth revver.)
The reasons the previous 6 didn't sell were its relatively small size and smaller/under-powered engines. The current 6 fixes these and improves the interior......my only beef with Mazda is that they didn't need to reduce the car's sporty character to gain those improvements.
Don't get me wrong: it's still a great family car, but with little sporty character to get me emotionally excited about it, I will now be considering the Accord and Altima too.

"Why buy a Mazda when you can get a Honda?"

If the Mazda is question is not a "poor man's BMW" handlingwise, then I might as well choose the Accord for better value retention and (percieved??) better reliability!

Cx7, do you sell Mazdas or in any way work for Mazda?

Sorry, just the comment about selling 42k v. 40k and the even odder comment about outselling the Civic in Canada makes me wonder if you're more than just a fan...

imho the interior was too small and cheap, the door pocket, extremely flimsy, and the upper plastic was soft but didn't feel substantial. I had one for an extended period of time.

How can you say anything that gets 15/21 mpg doesn't matter as much because it's a crossover? It definitely does, only because they're more fuel efficient offerings on the table.

I don't need to make predictions for the US, even 4 years after it's introduction it's still selling well.

If the Mazda is question is not a "poor man's BMW" handlingwise, then I might as well choose the Accord for better value retention and (percieved??) better reliability!

That wasn't my point, the Mazda3 it is a popular model in Canada. What does popularity have to do with how it sells and how I can't mention it to compare it's buy ability over a more established Japanese brand? Nothing? The CX-9 is not the best handler in it's class either but it has an excellent on road feel. Again I had a Mazda6 and there was nothing BMW about it, if there was it would have been selling well. They're not going after taking the Accord down either because they don't have the capacity to do so, which is why the Mazda3 ALMOST outsold the Civic, if they could have gotten more into Canada it would be holding the number 1 best selling car in Canada.

oops
"how it sells in Canada over a more established Japanese brand, which is what you're all trying to use as a reason why people wouldn't buy a Mazda, because Honda and Toyota have midsize offerings. It just doesn't hold water if you look at the facts, if they have a truly good blend on their hands they WILL sell them."

I guess only time will tell, but it the new 6 the "right stuff"? I'm not so sure. Great family car, but unlike the 3, 5, CX-7, CX-9 and MS3, it isn't class-leading in terms of sportiness.

And you're missing the fact that most family car buyers don't need THE BEST handling, the Mazda6 can still get down, but it rides better to suite customer tastes.

"And you're missing the fact that most family car buyers don't need THE BEST handling, the Mazda6 can still get down, but it rides better to suite customer tastes."

No, family cars don't need best-in-class handling, but Mazda needs to offer something else besides basic competence to get a competitive advantage and they have chosen zoom-zoom. Without the zoom-zoom, there is no reason why a buyer shouldn't opt for the Accord (given it's great value retention and reliability, not to forget its near class-leading fuel economy). Hence, Mazda's cars NEED to offer best-in-class handling and sportiness....the new Mazda 6 doesn't.
[BTW, all the manufacturers have some sort of competitive advantage: Honda and Toyota have legendary reliability and high value retention, Nissan have advanced automatic transmissions and are relatively sporty, Hyundais offer the best value. Mazdas are supposed to offer class-leading sportiness.......]

"How can you say anything that gets 15/21 mpg doesn't matter as much because it's a crossover? It definitely does, only because they're more fuel efficient offerings on the table."

I never said fuel economy doesn't matter in CUVs. I said it doesn't matter AS MUCH in CUVs relative to mid-sized sedans. You and I know that is true. 15/21 mpg is not good for a CUV, but still tolerable.