Edmunds CarPool

from whats out and new:

I'd say the pontiac vibe

for entry level lux - the New A4

and i'm sure i'll think of something else.

Totally agree with you on powertrain and trim level. The V6 is a slug and the SRT is too much money for not much more performance. I suspect most buyers will be old dudes who want the automatic, but definitely do get the manual for your test.

Not so sure about colors. Personally I'd prefer Dukes of Hazard orange, which is the "signature" color for this car. Maybe that's too cliche. It definitely looks mean in black. And they have a really interesting shade of blue as well, although it might be too reminiscent of the xB... I'd definitely prefer wheels that were not chromed, but that doesn't appear to be an option.

This thing weighs over 4,000 lbs. Anything you can do to lighten this tank is money well spent.

I wasn't aware that larger wheels hurt fuel economy- that's a new one for me. Although, I don't see why this would be of concern considering this car is gonna get bad economy anyway, so who would care? The Challenger looks goofy with the standard wheels so the 20"s are a must. It's funny that we never hear complaints about large size wheels when they are installed on BMWs, Audis or other forgein vehicles.

The Challenger seems like a dumb addition to the fleet though- I don't see the point. Then again, I don't see the point of the R8/GTR either other than to satisfy the editors- it provides no real value to any of us readers I'm sure less than 5% of the regulars here could afford either.

The new A4 2.0T needs to be added to the fleet and the Mazda6. I'd also like to see another small SUV like the CRV or wait for the Vue TwoMode. We must add yet another BMW model to meet the quoto, so how about an X6 xDrive35i or used Z8?

My preference would be for the V6 engine. I know that almost certainly Edmunds will get the V8. However, I feel that the V6 will be the largest volume seller, just like a Mustang or Camaro. If Edmunds wants to reach the widest audience for the car, then you should aim for the car that your average person would be most likely to buy.

If you must get the Challenger, I would say that the R/T version is a good trade-off between power and economy. Also, it comes with a manual, so come on! However, I agree with some of the other posters, an Audi A4 2.0T would seem a bit better. A small hatchback like the A3 or a GTI would be nice to see as well.

The A4 and GTI are also likely additions in the next few months, so don't assume the Challenger is displacing other new/interesting vehicles.

If I was getting a Challenger, the 6-speed R/T would probably be it. Though for less money, I'd realistically just wait for the V-6 Camaro (6-speed) which I expect to be a far better car for far less money.

As for other LT cars:
-Used 911(!!!!!)
-As others have mentioned, a new A4 would be cool
-V-6 Camaro...for obvious reasons
-Mazda 6 V-6 (yeah, yeah...but all the other family sedans were V-6's, so we might as well see how this one compares
-The sport compact 'slot' is now open with the departure of the Mini, but I'm not sure what would best fill that space. Maybe a Cobalt SS? The upcoming GTI MkVI? The highly-lauded Speed3?

Yes, the original purple color name on original Challengers is "Plum Crazy Purple."

Larger wheels, all things being equal, hurt acceleration, braking and fuel mileage for the simple reason that larger diameters mean more rotating mass, which takes more energy to speed up (accelerate), slow down (brake) and turn. All of this hurts acceleration and braking nubmers while using more fuel.

There is the possibility of improved steering response and handling because of the shorter sidewall, but I'm of the strong opinion that somewhere around 18-19 inches the further "improvement" in going larger in diameter size is minimal, while the damage to ride quality goes up drastically.

And, in the case of the Challenger, I don't even think the appearance improves with the larger wheels. The SRT8 we had in a couple months ago looked like one of those stupid, over-wheeled toy cars I can't stand, and they also made the vehicle sit so high it looked like a coupe version of an SUV (think two-door Infiniti FX).

"-The sport compact 'slot' is now open with the departure of the Mini, but I'm not sure what would best fill that space. Maybe a Cobalt SS? The upcoming GTI MkVI? The highly-lauded Speed3?"

I like the idea of adding a Cobalt SS. This particular car is often mentioned during the GM "hate/love" discussions, so I'd be curious to see just how good (or not good) the car is. I'd rather see the Cobalt SS then a Speed3 (which we know will be loved).

I agree on the Cobalt SS. I think it would be interesting.

Choice: The Challenger R/T. Weight issue and the Camaro is going to be about the same weight. Humm... hello Bullit? Less weight but hate the solid axle.

"The A4 and GTI are also likely additions in the next few months, so don't assume the Challenger is displacing other new/interesting vehicles."

Now you've gotten me excited! A4 2.0T FTW!

I vote for a Cobalt SS.

The Challenger doesn't appeal to me nearly as much as the Camaro. I have nothing to base this on other than pictures and a few reviews.

"Larger wheels, all things being equal, hurt acceleration, braking and fuel mileage for the simple reason that larger diameters mean more rotating mass, which takes more energy to speed up (accelerate), slow down (brake) and turn. All of this hurts acceleration and braking nubmers while using more fuel."

Not if they are lighter or equal in mass. Example: The 20" wheels on the Challenger are forged and will likely weigh the same as cast 18" wheels. The forging process yields a stronger part (which usually means a lighter part as less material can be used to achieve the same qualities) compared to an injection mold casting assuming the same raw material.

The new A4 is one nice looking vehicle. Audi should've turned up the juice on their iron block 2.0T- 211hp is paltry compared to the 260hp in GM's 2.0T all aluminum engine. I'm guessing they didn't want to encroach on the 265hp V-6 that is utterly pointless and a waste of money. I'd gladly drive a decked out 2.0T with S-Line package.

May I ask why not a Hyundai Genesis? If you look at the automotive forums, Genesis has been the highly anticipated new arrival on the scene. Even though there's a lot of information on that car, it is still a sort of an enigma to most of us. I haven't seen one on the road yet.

I think most of the people would be very very interested in knowing if Hyundai has pulled it off. And, as it is, I'm over saturated over the excessive coverage of Challenger/Camaro on Auto websites.

No V6 for this overweight car. Get a lightly-optioned V8 with manual, as many enthusiasts will likely choose.

I would also like to see a Hyundai Accent SE hatchback with B&M shifter. A really fun car on my 15-minute test drive, but would it remain so friendly in the long-term fleet?

Now, the tasty V6 in the Camaro is actually worth considering!

How about a Vanishing Point car? A R/T with 6 speed and 18" wheels in white,no stripes, would look pretty cool.

Torque = Force x Distance (of point to center of rotation)

Force = Mass x Acceleration

Torque = Mass x Acceleration x Distance

The mass of the vehicle is constant. The engine, at a specific RPM, will generate a specific amount of torque. Assuming a specific rpm for comparrison between two cases, so that we have the same torque, then the torque can be treated as a constant.

Torque = Constant
Mass = Constant

then

Torque / Mass = Constant

Knowing that the Torque and Mass are constant for a comparrison of two cases yields:

T1 = T2, M1 = M2

T1 = M1 x A1 x D1
T2 = M2 x A2 x D2

Introduce a new constant, K

K = T / M

K = A1 x D1 = A2 x D2

D1 is our original 18" tires. D2 is our new 20" tires.

A1 x 18" = A2 x 20"

A1 x 18" = A2
--------
20"

0.9 x A1 = A2

So, by increasing the tire size, I have decreased the acceleration of the car. This affects not only things like 0-60 times, but also your fuel economy.

The force balance for accelerating your car in a straight line is that you have a Force pushing the car (Facc) and a friction Force with the air creating drag on the car (Fdrag). For your vehicle to move at a constant speed, the force of acceleration and drag are in balance.

So, by reducing the acceleration of the car, I am reducing the force pushing the car at a specific rpm. In this case, by 10%. This means I will need to increase the RPM until I get to the force that will cause a balance for a particular speed. Thus, I need to use more fuel to drive the same speed.

So when it comes to bigger tires, don't do it. You do nothing except hurt the performance of the car.

Its good to hear that the A4 and the GTI are on the table as possibilities. Since the Challenger wouldn't replace them in the lineup, that sounds good too.

Hmmm sabastian has a point; once the M3 leaves, a used 911 would look awful nice. The real question is whether to go air cooled or water cooled...decisions, decisions...

(I vote for air cooled of course!)

Karl, I agree that the R/T make the most sense. I also agree with 18 inch wheels. However, I'd select the automatic transmission version to get MDS cylinder deactivation. 5.7L V8 with automatic will probably be the most popular retail sale version of the Challenger.

you could get a white one and have it delivered in Colorado....

Why are GM and Chrysler making these Auto=DOD Manual=non-DOD assumptions?! What if I want a G8 GT with a 6-speed manual and the 362 hp DOD motor?!

R/T. The 370 hp, 16/25 mpg combinations sounds great. And 0-60 in 5.9 seconds is plenty nice.

Getting 20 mpg is pretty much on par with cars with a 250-300 hp V6.

"How about a Vanishing Point car? "

All Chrysler cars may be nearing the vanishing point.

I second the Genesis.

White, Silver, or Gray. Or even Blue. Not Red, Orange or Black. Please, no Red.
RT with 6 speed sounds great.

The R/T sounds great. Actually my opinion on fuel economy has changed.
I think if you are going to buy this type of car, get the "real" one. Not everything has to be a fuel miser, economy car. Having it all is great but when the focus is this sharp, just get the one that fits that focus the best.

I saw one of these Challengers on the road and it looks better in photos. It has a somewhat odd, slab sided, "lifting it's skirt" look. It doesn't look as planted as the photos suggest.

On another note, your new website is really glitchy. I hope they continue to address it and improve.

My votes is for a R/T w/ 6MT.

vote* Too bad I can't edit the comment above. :(

"Larger wheels, all things being equal, hurt acceleration, braking and fuel mileage for the simple reason that larger diameters mean more rotating mass, which takes more energy to speed up (accelerate), slow down (brake) and turn. All of this hurts acceleration and braking nubmers while using more fuel."

who is to say the differences are measurable? On a car with this much weight and with this level of hp the wheel size is inconsequential. Besides, the car looks ridiculous with the standard wheels. If you want our opinion then we will offer it to you. Man up and get the 20s. Since when are you guys concerned about preserving ride quality? You have an M3, Sti and EVO and I doubt any of them have plush rides.

"Why are GM and Chrysler making these Auto=DOD Manual=non-DOD assumptions?! What if I want a G8 GT with a 6-speed manual and the 362 hp DOD motor?!"

DOD doesnt work with manual transmissions as far as I know.

The Challenger V6 doesnt even get great mileage considering it's paltry hp so it makes no sense to get the V6. I really hope getting the Challenger doesnt preclude edmunds from getting the superior Camaro when it debuts. Definitely go for the V6 in the Camaro when it comes out.

Skip the GTI, this car has been long term tested by several other magazines and is old news now. Get something different that we haven't seen before in a LT test. I like the idea of the Cobalt SS and Genesis. You might as well get a TL SH as well.

I didn't read through all the posts as it's been a few days since I signed in, but I think you should get the RT with the TrakPak. The V6 would make more real world sense, but since like Karl said, it's hooked to an archaic 4-speed auto, then no... It's just a poseur car.

Hopefully you'll also add a Camaro to the fleet too, but since that's a year away it can be the Challenger's replacement. In the Camaro's case, I would say get the V6 however since it's going to be putting out over 300 Horses and have a decent tranny hooked to it.

I'm pretty sure that the GTI people are talking about is the MK6 that isn't out yet yet.

Challenger R/T in that Red like the Picture!

Sidenote:
Used: Mitsubishi 3000GT Spyder
Sport Compact: Saturn Astra w/panoramic sunroof
Midsize Sedan: Malibu LTZ I4 or Mazda6 GT
Entry Level Sport: Audi A4 2.0T
CUV/SUV: VW Tiguan SEL or Jetta Sportwagen SEL
Other: Jaguar XF w/o Supercharger

-Cj

Karl, get the RT, just like you have described above only in black!