One of my friends is ready to buy a new car. As you might imagine, when you're in my position and a friend or family member is ramping up for a car purchase the phone often rings (or, as in this case, the "New Email" folder goes bold).
My friend currently owns a 2005 Acura TL, which he purchased because of its combination of luxury, technology and quality. He's a successful lawyer, and financially capable of buying a much more expensive car, but he puts a lot of value on...well, value. When he asked me about the TL four years ago, and told me what his priorities were, I said, "The TL will absolutely serve your needs." He bought it and has had no regrets. But his driving habits rack up the miles quickly, and after four years his TL is pretty worn out.
So he's ready for a new car, and the just-redesigned 2009 Acura TL would be the obvious choice. After all, it still offers all the luxury, technology and quality of the previous version. However, in my friend's words, it is "quite ugly."
His girlfriend drives a 2006 Lexus RX, which he really likes except for one characteristic -- he HATES how the navigation system goes dead once the car is in motion. So he asked me in his email, "You're the car expert. Can you tell me if the new 2010 Lexus RX navigation system can be used while in motion or is it a completely useless upgrade like it has been to this point?" To which I replied, "Lexus=Toyota, and Toyota=nanny-ism. In other words, NO USING NAV WHILE DRIVING!"
This made him very unhappy and put him in a state where I can't reprint his next reply. It also made him write a no-nonsense letter to Lexus; a letter that generated a very corporate response. Follow the jump to read it.
Letter to Lexus:
"I currently own a 2005 Acura TL and it has come time to purchase a new vehicle. I would have automatically purchased a new TL but for the fact that I find the redesigned version to be quite ugly. So, I am considering the 2010 RX. My girlfriend owns a 2006 RX and I think it is a great car but for the fact that the navigation system is effectively useless because it becomes disabled when the vehicle is in motion. My Acura navigation, on the other hand, works all of the time. I understand that some previous years' models of the Lexus had an override capability which has since been removed. I also understand that the Lexus system similarly disables the ability to use a cell phone via Bluetooth when the vehicle is in motion (or, at least, disables much of it--e.g., the ability to "press one for English" when listening to your voicemail). Are these limitations still in place in the 2010 models? If so, I would absolutely have to rule out buying a Lexus--a shame because other than those things the car is just fantastic. But, I can't have a completely useless navigation system or any limitations on the use of a Bluetooth phone. If the restrictions are still in place, what is the rationale for having them? It can't possibly be safety considering that the driver is still free to scroll through radio stations, talk to passengers, etc. Is it simply a case of ridiculous legal advice from the Lexus legal department? I have to "okay" a disclaimer every time I start my Acura, but then at least I can use what I paid for. It's been four and a half years and, believe it or not, I have yet to kill or injure anyone while using the navigation system or Bluetooth phone while in motion. Please tell me this issue is fixable so I can buy one of your cars. Otherwise, I have to hold my nose and buy the ugly TL. Under no circumstances will I pay for a vehicle that tells me when I can and cannot use the functions I paid for. I can't understand why anyone would do that.
Thanks,
Lexus Response:
Thank you for contacting Lexus Customer Satisfaction. Your concern is important to Lexus, and we appreciate the time you have taken to share your thoughts. We are dedicated to providing superior service. In circumstances that require our attention, we will assist in the resolution process.
We make every effort to manufacture a quality product by researching, testing, and constantly monitoring performance. Consumer opinion and perception also play an active role in our ongoing efforts to lead the automobile industry in quality, innovation, styling, and reliability. We apologize you are displeased with the design of the navigation system. We have documented your concerns at Lexus National headquarters for future product consideration.
For your safety, some functions may become inoperable when driving. Unavailable touch-screen buttons are dimmed. Only when the vehicle is not moving, can the destination and route selection be done. The new 2010 RX features an all-new Navigation System with a more intuitive interface, an advanced voice-recognition system, and real-time traffic and weather updates. To view a demo and these exciting enhancements, attached is a link to these features: http://www.lexus.com/models/RX/features/interior/nextgeneration_navigation_system.html. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.
If you require further assistance, please respond to this e-mail, or contact Lexus Customer Satisfaction at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 5:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., or Saturday, 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., Pacific Time.
Sincerely,
Lexus Customer Satisfaction
So there you have it, proof positive that an otherwise excellent product can be torpedoed by a single design flaw. I have similarly ruled out a Toyota or Lexus product from my personal stable for the same reason my friend won't be buying a new RX, and I could list several additional friends and family members who feel the same way.
What say you? Has the lack of navigation functionality in Toyota/Lexus products kept you from buying them in the past or present? Are there any other vehicles you've generally liked but refused to purchase because of a single feature you simply couldn't get past?
By 1487
on March 17, 2009
06:12 AM
why would anyone go from a last gen TL to an RX350? Also, why is he acting like he has no options beyond the ugly TL or the RX350? He's never heard of the CTS, G35 or A4? I can't stand it when people look at such a narrow selection of vehicles and people who buy Toyota or Honda tend to be that way.
Not being able to use nav while in motion is just stupid. I am not surprised that Toyota embraces this philosohy though.
By scott65
on March 17, 2009
06:28 AM
A friend of mine also walked away from buying a RAV4 because the navigation didn't work while you were driving. He went on to buy an Acadia instead.
I don't get why Toyota's nav system is like that...you can't stop on a highway for freeway if you have accidentally put in the wrong destination. It's moronic and you think they would have fixed it by now. Not enough customer complaints I suppose.
By dougtheeng
on March 17, 2009
06:44 AM
I'll echo 1487 here: I definitely think there are other cars out there for your friend. If he finds the TL so hideous (which I wholeheartedly agree with), I'm sure he could shop around a bit.
Karl, did you try making any other suggestions to him?
PS not being able to use all nav/bluetooth features while driving is dumb, I agree.
By blueguydotcom
on March 17, 2009
06:54 AM
Shrug. Lack of navi in a car that's moving is a problem? Why? My car's ludicrous navi allows me to change it while driving - now why I'd ever use the system is a bigger question mark. My cell phone is easier to operate, faster and more up-to-date.
Want a local place's address... Goog411 is much quicker than trying use a navi system. It's voice-activated, has "right-now" info and they'll send a text message with the map to my phone. What good is in-car navi again?
By mnorm1
on March 17, 2009
07:22 AM
Save a thousand or more, buy an aftermarket nav.
By redliner
on March 17, 2009
07:49 AM
If your friend values value, may i suggest a Hyundai Genesis.
I agree, if you pay for nav, then you should be able to use it at your discretion, especially after all those disclaimers that warn against using the nav or instant death will befall you.
By brn
on March 17, 2009
08:09 AM
scott65, your friend found a GM product as a preferable alternative to a Toyota? Toss him in the asylum!
I assume Karl was of the impression that suggesting alternatives to Toyonda was a lost cause. Karl, keep gnawing away at him. He'll come around. :)
By billt9
on March 17, 2009
08:38 AM
Tell him to get a loaded BMW X5 and be done with. It'll only cost him $25,000 more.
What's $25,000?
By billt9
on March 17, 2009
08:52 AM
Ugh RX are for pharmacists.
Backstabbing lawyers need BMWs to proclaim their superiority to humankind. He can just sue Karl for a random law that he picked by opening a random law book to a random page and randomly pointing a finger at, and make that $25,000 easy.
The jury always has an education level of high school or less, since "smart" people are too busy with their lives to ever serve jury duty. This jury with an education level of high school or less only listens to passionate arguments and pay no heed to facts since no one understands what a "fact" is. He'll win a random suit on Karl easy.
By itsallmuscle
on March 17, 2009
09:00 AM
This Tuesday, I have decided to talk-back.
Thanks for posting the corporate response. While politically correct, it has and adverse effect to pacifying a customer; instead it has pushed me even further from Toyota.
Honda makes a good car, but the luxury appointments of the Acura make it difficult for me to call it a LUXURY vehicle. I'm not impressed with the leather or the seating, and the dashboard IS HONDA (at least in the previous model year).
The Genesis has been getting rave reviews. If VALUE is as important as he says, perhaps he should take a look at one. If Hyundai doesn't work for him, perhaps check out an Audi. The new A4 or soon S4 are class leaders in looks and sport a shorter price tag than a BMW - which has a WORKING GPS; the 335xi is a great vehicle.
There are other options out there than the TL given the criteria that your friend is searching for. The RX does not resonate VALUE to me, sounds more like something a doctor would give me... heh-heh.....(awful I know).
By cx7lover
on March 17, 2009
10:03 AM
Uh yeah, if he was looking at an RX he should look at the Genesis sedan V6 w/ tech pak.
By hankattol
on March 17, 2009
11:31 AM
as to the question of one item being a deal breaker...
When Hyundai first offered the SantaFe, my mother was one of the first locally to snag one. Just loved it, but after nearly 100k miles was time for something new. Seemed to be perfect timing as the current body style was just being introduced. She went to look at the new ones, fell absolutely in love, then saw that the back glass didn't open separately like on the old ones. That one item was an absolute deal breaker.
Actually, it ended up working out better for her. Couple months later, the local Dodge dealership did an even swap on a 2 year lease on a Ram1500 4x4. So she had a fun new toy and still no car payment.
Take care all...
By firstwagon
on March 17, 2009
12:05 PM
I'm surprised governments aren't forcing all automakers to use a system like Toyota has.
Laws against cell phones are popping up everywhere and programming a nav system is far more distracting then a cell phone.
By billt9
on March 17, 2009
01:09 PM
firstwagon,
Americans have to right to choose to drive into a curb, a light pole or another vehicle.
After the American's vehicle is driven into another vehicle, then the laws about manslaughter and so on comes into effect, AFTER.
But first Americans have the right to pay attention to whatever they so choose and drive into another vehicle. God gave us that right.
Canadians live in such a different world.
In America, some people don't even know what snow is. Our way is better. And warmer.
By firstwagon
on March 17, 2009
01:38 PM
Wow, I sure hope that's sarcasm.
By estreka
on March 17, 2009
02:38 PM
Is there a single feature that would keep me out of certain cars? Yes.
I'd never buy a new Acura because they are so darned ugly.
I'd never buy a BMW with iDrive.
I'd never buy any new tech "feature" that has a history of problems.
I'd never buy a pizza with anchovies.
By brn
on March 17, 2009
02:41 PM
It had to be. Where I live (US) is colder than many Canadian cities. :)
By petrolhead85
on March 17, 2009
03:19 PM
How may corporate filters did that response have to go through to get to be that generic? I'm surprised they didn't address it as "Dear Customer #836494-12" (or did they?)
So the lawyerly friend likes the RX but hates the navi, and liked the '05 TL but hates the look of the '09 (who doesn't?). So I'm thinking if it has to be Acura what about an MDX or RDX?
By billt9
on March 17, 2009
03:35 PM
What's up with the complaint about the customer service letter?
What else can be said? That Lexus will specially fit your particular vehicle with a custom tailored navi?
No, the response must say we're sorry there's things you don't like. Please look at the features it does have, and you may like those, and hopefully those good features change your mind.
How else can you write a response letter on a product that takes 5 years to develop? There will be no change.
By billt9
on March 17, 2009
03:44 PM
Let's have a letter writing challenge. If you can write a better letter to tell the customer we're sorry about your dislike, I hope you like our product the way it is, but we ain't budging cuz it ain't possible, write it here. Show off your A+ English skillz.
By savetheland
on March 17, 2009
06:09 PM
I am fully supportive to Toyota’s approach. Your friend is a lawyer and if he gets into accident while using Lexus navigation he will certainly sue Toyota for lot money. And why Toyota has to care about your friend opinion? They make best selling cars in almost every category in USA therefore they make what most people in USA want (or do not care about). By disabling navigation Toyota saves lot of money by preventing lawsuits. Look at Ford – they killed the whole division (Lincoln) just because they neglected safety. Lexus and is alive and prosperous unlike king of 90s – Lincoln.
Besides there is always choice – if he does not like Lexus – just tell him to buy something else – there is a lot of choice beyond Toyota and Honda. There is no reason wasting time and energy on writing letters to Toyota, which nobody reads anyway(I can assure that reply was written by computer) because most of people happy with their Toyotas.
BTW RX is as ugly as new Acura.
By jederino
on March 17, 2009
06:19 PM
My wife has a similar similar fixation on Honda and Toyota. She thinks they are the only reputable automakers, and only reaonable choices. I cannot convince her otherwise, as she is very suspicious of studies or awards going to other carmakers than these - particularly American brands, even though she only had a bad experience with early 90's Chevy Cavalier. If anyone has advice on how to convince a significant other to consider other makers?
By chavis10
on March 18, 2009
06:27 AM
The new RX is worse than the old one. The exterior is worse with that overbit front clip and square jaw grille and the asymmetrical dash design is just plain terrible. Get a pre-owned one and save some $$ if you must have an RX. The new TL, I won't even touch- he'd be better off getting a left over previous generation model which is quite a nice car and the only Honda/Acura product I would ever own. Since he doesn't seem to care about a sporty ride, he should consider the Lincoln MKS, Volvo S80 (6 cyl turbo) or Genesis. Those are all nice cars that are pretty exclusive unlike some of the other choices in the price range. He seems to want to stay under $40-45k so he should open up his options.
By carlisimo
on March 18, 2009
12:47 PM
I once nearly refused to buy a car because of its seatbelt warning "chime." It was a shrill noise that seriously hurt my ears. Like most people, I have the car keys in my right hand when I get in the car, so I always turn on the car before I put on my seatbelt - and thus receive the painful warning until I can buckle up.
Fortunately, the owner showed me how to unplug the seatbelt sensor (it's under the driver's seat in most cars), so I bought the car. Nav is more complicated, but I'm sure it's been hacked into before.
By kurtamaxxxguy
on March 18, 2009
09:01 PM
Toyota does not require you to agree to a legal disclaimer before using their Nav system. Perhaps that is one reason they disable selections during driving.
Garmin does, but will let you change things while driving, and I've seen several people nearly go off the road during the process.
As for new RX, sadly has become too big and heavy.
By altimadude00
on March 18, 2009
10:36 PM
I'm a little late in joining this party, but I'm going to defend this guy from 1487's first rant about him having a narrow choice.
My first argument is that since he was satisfied with his current car, he would naturally look into the cat that has replaced it. He thought it was ugly, so he moved on to the next car. His girlfriend drove a car that he liked except for one thing. It is being replaces, so he thought that the improvements would be good enough for him to buy one. It is not uncommon for someone to stick with things that they have experienced, and liked.
My second argument is that it is obvious that this friend has just started his buying process. He's explored the vehicles he's familiar with and moved on from them. Obviously, he wouldn't throw his hands up into the air and say, "Oh well, I guess I'm taking the bus now!" You shouldn't be lambasting the guy just because you get a half-story of his shopping experience. You don't know what is on his shopping list.
I can't stand it when people jump the gun and assume things that mirror what people like to rant about (i.e. 1487 feeling about domestic products). Get the whole story, then rant about the things you like to complain about. Because of jumping the gun, 1487 casts an unfair bias against Karl's friend's shopping habits.
Therefore, I shall rant about people who only shop and choose from domestic automakers because their rational is that Americans won WWII, and by God I wouldn't be caught dead in some Jap scrap bucket or some Nazi staff car. Support Rosie the Riveter and Uncle Sam! (sarcasm)
By 1487
on March 19, 2009
05:17 PM
altima,
Please spare me, there are numerous good cars out there in the same price range as the TL. Toyota and Honda fans seem reluctant to accept that others know how to build a good car. I know several Toyota owners that dont even check out any other brands and yet insist Toyota makes the best cars.
I dont know if you are supposed to be talking about me when criticizing people that only buy American but my first car was Japanese. Whoops!
By 1487
on March 19, 2009
05:18 PM
BTW Altimadude if you bothered to read my first post the alternate cars I mentioned where from import and domestic manufacturers. I dont think the A4 is an American car. Do you? Way to jump the gun. Die hard ToyoHonda people are biased against ANY brands from Europe or the US.
By altimadude00
on March 19, 2009
06:17 PM
1487--I did read your posts. Personally, I don't care what kinds of cars you buy, or have owned in the past. Buying a Ford doesn't make you more of an American than a person buying a Honda.
I am aware that Audi is a German automaker. I am also aware that there are both Import-biased shoppers, as well as Domestic-biased shoppers.
What I had a problem with is you accusing him of having a narrow view of the market's choices when you were only given a part of a bigger story, the same way you delighted in characterizing me given limited information about myself.
By jake_fantom
on March 31, 2009
03:34 PM
For years I bought Lexus cars. When navigation systems became fairly standard, I was amazed that theirs didn't permit input from the passenger while the car was in motion. I stopped buying Lexuses and switched to Acura TL. Today I started shopping for my next car... unbelievably, the Toyota Venza, Lexus RX 350, etc etc etc all have the same crappy navigation system that you can't affect while the car is moving. The liar salespeople say, they are all like that. Fortunately, I know better. Today, the guy at Toyota says, just do a search on Google, you will find out how to override that feature. Another lie... that was true on pre-2007 Lexuses. Toyota has taken away the possibility of overriding their Car Mom. So now I am back deciding between an Acura RDX, TL, or a Lexus with Garmin. Amazing. How can smart people be so stupid?
By rdeason
on June 17, 2010
06:47 PM
I have a 2010 Venza and I have found that the voice commands work quite well with the exception that they cannot find anything. If I am driving along a route on the Nav unit I can query the system to locate restuarants along the route. It will find none even though our route is over 500 miles long. If I pull over and enter the same request using the touchscreen I am given a plethora of choices including Cracker Carrel Restuarants 400 miles away. It is very frustrating and Toyotas response is that it is a safety issue. But I can still browse all of my satelite radio stations and set the volume settings on the surround sound speakers. My $200.00 dollar Garmin is of more use to me.
By zeak
on October 22, 2010
06:49 AM
I too own a 2005 Acura TL/NAV and it is a car that I have never had a regret; was considering a new TL but keep thinking of the song, "Make an ugly woman your wife".
Someone at Acura should be fired for ruining a fantastic product. The RL seems too old manish and the 05 TL was just plain COOL.
By zeak
on October 22, 2010
06:50 AM
I too own a 2005 Acura TL/NAV and it is a car that I have never had a regret; was considering a new TL but keep thinking of the song, "Make an ugly woman your wife".
Someone at Acura should be fired for ruining a fantastic product. The RL seems too old manish and the 05 TL was just plain COOL.