Edmunds CarPool

I think its difficult for me to comment, because the only things I've ever known about Pontiac are the Sunfire, Grand Am, Aztek, G3, etc era. In the time I've known Pontiac, there is only one vehicle I would ever have considered buying - the G8.

Everyone who talks about the Glory days of the 70s and pre-gas price rise, etc....well, I just cannot comment because I wasn't around. All I can say is that if the general consensus is that Pontiac jumped the shark back in the 70s, then thats pretty sad.

The Fiero was a great example of a corporation that had no clear vision for where it was going. Originally conceived as a sports car along the lines of a less expensive Pontiac Corvette, the focus during development changed to an economical commuter car (as a response to the fuel shortages of the late 1970's). Then, after the car began production and people were impressed with the economy and the sporty looks but not with the driving qualities, they changed again to make it more sporty, just before they killed it.

This kind of sums up the General's biggest problem during the period - no clear vision, changing priorities multiple times, doing things cheap as opposed to doing things right.

Karl,

I agree with you on this. Pontiac lost it when it was forced to use re-badged Chevrolets and parts out of the generic GM bin.

Not to sound like an old guy, but I remember when Pontiacs had unique engines from Chevrolets. Good, fun cars from the 1960's even into the 1970's. While not a fast car by today's standards a 1978 or 1979 Trans Am (yes with the screaming chicken on the hood) with a Pontiac 400 (not the Old's 403) was a Pontiac. With the introduction of the 1983 (I believe) Firebirds and Trans Am Pontiac lost it. 4 cylinder Firebirds were the end.

The Aztek was just simply marketing gone nuts. Pontiac was long dead already.

It sure seems to me that we are headed down the same path again. Fear of fuel prices and an overreaching government that thinks it can run a car company. How long will we be kept in an automotive dark age this time?

Hard for me to say when Pontiac jumped the shark because for my whole life (29 years), I've never found any Pontiac to be all that desireable or special. Some kick-ass Trans Am's, but I always preferred the Camaro. Only recently with the Solstice and G8 (and getting rid of the stupid minivan) did I think, wow, Pontiac is pretty cool. Even those would be perfectly fine as Chevy's. Caprice or Impala. Whatever. Point being, Pontiac has never impressed my generation.

Once big V8 powered cars were killed off due to gas prices and regulations Pontiac never regained its footing. It was forced to offer FWD cars that heavily competed with Chevy and Olds models. They were getting refocused recently but its apparent the government saw no place for the brand in the future. While Pontiac has had some duds the reality is many of their cars were no worse than dull or oddly styled imports Americans were flocking to. We can talk about cladding, odd styling or plastic interiors but people buy Scions, Mistubishis, Kias, Suzukis and a host of other mediocre vehicles from import brands that are no more compelling than anything Pontiac offered.

Agree with ahightower. The G8 caught my eye, the Solstice is pretty nice looking but before that...

I'll always associate the 60s Firebird with perfect styling, 70s Firebird with Smokey and the Bandit and the 80s Firebird with the super hot trainer at my health club during my high school years.

My generation really never knew a cool Pontiac. We got the Transport and Grand Prix.

When did Pontiac jump the shark?

Sure GM has made numerous blunders along the way, but IMHO the biggest blunder was the last one, killing the brand. They had a golden opportunity to re-make Pontiac into what it could and should be, the niche performance division -- starting with one great car and adding to that. But no, it was more expeditious to kill it off-- which as a parting shot kicks every Pontiac owner in the gut by deflating trade-in values.

I'll agree with that, whoosierdaddy. Pontiac did have promise. Enthusiasts like us might have preferred to see Buick die instead. But Buick, like GMC, has a good reputation and loyal buyers, even though they offer very little unique product. Keep in mind that Buick was consistently ranked very highly in quality surveys. Fact is, there is a lot of brand equity there.

Hopefully we can still get a G8, it'll just be called a Buick Regal, or a Chevy Impala, instead. I do wonder what they'll do with the Solstice. That was a beautiful car that only needed a little work.

I'd actually argue that Pontiac is being killed before its time. I was born in '81, so to me Pontiac has never been a "real" brand. I've only ever seen rebadged Chevies in my lifetime (excluding the Fiero, but how many of those sold?).

I'd argue that perhaps Pontiac was finally coming into its own. Pontiac could have sold all the Holdens and people would love them for it. I would not presume to assume we'll ever have that fantasy '50s candyland with all RWD cars and soda shops around every corner, but I do think there is a genuine demand for RWD American cars. And that idea will never jump the shark.

I'm 27, and remember seeing a few screaming chickens on Pontiac hoods when I was little. Those were cool.

All my other memories of Pontiacs are boring cars with ugly interiors and insectoid styling. I never understood that school of design, but I don't think I'm exaggerating. Taillights that look like a fly's compound eyes, awkward front fascias and hoods full of extra nostrils like a creature out of Star Trek, lumpy shapes on the dashboard... even the Solstice, which looks great, looks like a bug. I'll stick with modern-bland, thank you very much.

But for me, the moment of Pontiac's death was when Chevrolet got the Camaro. If there's ONE car that belongs in the Pontiac brand, it's a high-volume rear-wheel drive coupe. Without it, why keep the brand at all? Actually I guess the G8 is a good response to that question... but it flopped. I'm not sure why. I thought it might be the name, but the G6 does pretty well even here in the SF Bay Area. I guess no one got the word.

Bye Pontiac. I'll miss ye. Pontiacs stopped being relevant with the start of badge-engineering gone mad. Think J2000, brother of Cimarron, and you'll remember just how close GM came to imploding. Pontiac Phoenix should also come to mind as the beginning of the end.

Fiero, Aztek, GTO, G8 were unique side-trips on an otherwise dead-end journey.

Make the G8 a Saturn. That way, Saturn can be the brand of GM's world cars. Could've been the other way around, and a great marque could have survived.

Pontiac jumped the shark when its brand became more associated with plastic body cladding than high performance engines. I considered buying a Pontiac Grand Am in the 80s, but most of the vehicles actually on the dealer lot had the primative base 4 cylinder engine while the equivalent Chevy had a V6 and less boy racer plastic for less money. Pontiac was clearly near death when the major customer for the G6 became Avis.

The GTO and G8 were not unique side trips. They were more badge engineering.

When did the concept of Pontiac going away first strike you as a likely possibility? When did Pontiac jump the shark?

I owned an 85'Firebird and I loved it despite the fact after 3 years it had started to rust and 5 years later the car had more rust than factory paint. 97'Grand Prix after that and again, I loved it. Currently, I have an 04'Vibe and it is not a bad car. However, it is beginning to show its age. I was extremely disappointed when Pontiac killed Firebird. That pretty much is when it jumped the shark for me. How can you convey a performance niche brand without a true performance coupe? After that it became an obvious badge engineering. From substandard Sunfire to an ugly Aztek, there was no clear direction to separate Pontiac from other brands. From a sporty image it always tried to portray it became a lackluster lineup of cars and minivans. In fact, Chevrolet today offers more sportier cars than Pontiac (Malibu, Corvette). What I don't get is why keep GMC? It doesn't offer anything different from Chevrolet division. It could have easily been killed off and I think few months down the road it will be. Despite all the troubles at GM, I am saddened to see Pontiac go.

Pontiac will always have a special place in my heart. And no, it wasn't because of the brand's glory days... more than a decade before I was born, although I wish I could have experienced it. I went to my first auto show when I was 13: the 1989 Los Angeles show. The concept that really got me excited was the Pontiac Stinger... a small Jeep-like SUV. And I still remember standing in the Pontiac section of the show floor. They had a massive "We Build Excitement" sign that spanned something like 30 feet above the show floor, and it lit up like Las Vegas, flashing and sparkling in time with Pontiac's marketing jingle at the time... "We Build Excitement... Pontiac!" That switched on my car bug, and it took over my life.

It's hard to say when Pontiac jumped the shark. There are so many opportunities in its history. But, I would have to say it was the '70s gas crisis. All of the domestic manufacturers too a huge nose dive then. Some have managed to climb out of it. Others managed to barely stay afloat. But for Pontiac, it was the beginning of the end... the brand never recovered. What was once the rebel brand in GM became a slave to the corporate reigns that wrapped around its neck and slowly suffocated it.

The only time since then that Pontiac started to regain consciousness was when GM allowed Pontiac to start rebadging Holdens. We saw a flicker of life with the new GTO, and then Pontiac's eyes opened wide with the G8, just long enough to see the pillow coming down to smother its face and kill it off once and for all. I agree with Karl... it was a relief to see Pontiac finally laid to rest. As a tribute, we should all go out and burn T1000s, Junkfires, Azteks, and any minivan bearing the Pontiac arrowhead!

One of my dream cars that I hope to have one day is a late 70s Trans Am, complete with the screaming chicken on the hood. Yeah, it wasn't fast, but that car and audacious graphic represented the last time Pontiac tried to rebel against the corporate culture that may soon devour GM into an empty carcass...

"late 70s Trans Am, complete with the screaming chicken on the hood. Yeah, it wasn't fast, but that car and audacious graphic represented the last time Pontiac tried to rebel against the corporate culture that may soon devour GM into an empty carcass..."

Couldn't have said it better myself. I remember combing the hundreds of Hotwheels and Matchbox models in Target or K-Mart for the Firebird with the chicken on the hood. My friends and I would debate for hours that the Trans Am was better than the Mustang or Camero. The Firebird looks unique with the square lights in the facia and the "bedazzled" interior. The T-Tops were the only real convertible in the late 1970's.

My idea of an attainible sports car was a Trans Am or Iroc Camero. I still remember when the Fiero came out. I LOVED IT. Friends of my dad had one and I wanted it so bad. It was a terrible car, but the 1988 Formula was perfection in my book back then. It had the performance of the GT without the bloated body.

Even the 1982-1992 Firebird was good looking. KIT was on TV and the Turbo Boost was cool. I loved their marketing campaign back then "We Build Excitement.... Pontiac" Hell it was such a catchy tune that you didn't even notice the Parisianne in the showroom.

1988 was the last time I even went in a Pontiac dealership. I looked at the Soltice at a car show and a G8 at a show. Both were good, but it was too late. The Excitement was gone (hell it was gone long before the 1980's). But for a kid at least they were still trying.

This is a sad day for all car lovers. The cars we grew up wanting aren't even on the radar list of the generation that is growing up now. They want good mpg and crossovers. Hell many of them associate cell phones with greater sence of freedom and liberty than their cars. Communication and gadgets are the new "things" to have, while the car is just basic for so many of them.

When I was 16 I wanted the freedom and excitement of self reliance. Kids get that in other ways now. Instead of crising the strip or hanging out at the mall, they text each other or interact on Facebook.

Good bye Pontiac, You weren't the first and you won't be the last of GM to face its mortality.

You're right that the G8 and GTO are badge-engineering. Unless you live in Australia, there's no other way to experience these cars. At least it had a purpose in bringing a unique car to the States. Can you name another non-GM badge-engineered Australian car?

I'll always have a soft spot on my heart for Pontiac because of a '68 Tempest my family rented. As a kid, I loved the swoopy styling and it made cool sounds from underhood. After that, I was forever on the lookout for Tempests, LeMans's, and GTOs. I still remember graceful Grand Prix's with their body-colored rear bumper. May that bumper drive off into the sunset with pride.

Not to cause a Tempest in a teapot, maybe some day Pontiac will return. Perhaps it will rise during the Solstice, like a Phoenix under a blazing Montana Sunfire in a Torrent of good Vibes.

"Not to cause a Tempest in a teapot, maybe some day Pontiac will return. Perhaps it will rise during the Solstice, like a Phoenix under a blazing Montana Sunfire in a Torrent of good Vibes."

Nice!

Brett, not all kids view the car as just transportation. My 19 year old cousin is a gearhead like his engineer father. He's always buying cars and bikes to modify for more and more speed: if not for college he'd probably spend every day under a car or on a track.

Classic Pontiac (or GM, if you prefer). The Pontiac Solstice: a car you would dies for if styling were the sole barometer for purchase. I mean the thing is drop-dead gorgeous.

Then you dig a little deeper...

As in checking out the trunk, er, "glove box" under the rear deck. Now I know sports cars aren't bought because of their trunk space; except for my next-door neighbor, who is in the market for a 2-seat convertible—that will hold two sets of golf bags. Don't know if such a vehicle exists—but that's what he wants...

Anyway, Pontiac—make that GM—is great at seducing you via great styling, only to screw it up with such poorly thought out things like a trunk that can hold, at best, a pair of gloves.

Gotta wonder if anyone on the Solstice design team ever checked out the trunk size of a Miata?

I've always liked Pontiac and consider it a shame to see the brand trashed. Even more frustrating is see GM stick a Pontiac badge on junk and wonder why it doesn't sell. It diluted the brand and made the better vehicles less appealing.

My uncle is a Pontiac nut. He has better then a half-dozen 1967's. Bonneville convertibles, Catalina convertibles, a Tempest and a couple of parts cars. None of which are near show car quality, but they ride great and always get complement when you take them for a spin.

I guess it more merciful to kill the brand then continue to imply that the beauties of the past share any heritage with some Daewoo hunk of garbage.

Their best car was the Firebird before they put the square headlights in it. I never liked those square headlights. I also drove a 6000 a few times, and liked that car, but was nothing special.

Reading through the previous comments a few thoughts come to mind:

"they had good looking vehicles, but didn't have the performance to back it."
- Putting lipstick on a pig never fools anyone

"no clear vision, changing priorities multiple times, doing things cheap as opposed to doing things right"
- They never learned to "make a better mousetrap"

"Pontiac has never impressed my generation"
- Ouch!

"I was born in '81, so to me Pontiac has never been a "real" brand. I've only ever seen rebadged Chevies in my lifetime" and "What was once the rebel brand in GM became a slave to the corporate reigns that wrapped around its neck and slowly suffocated it."
- When you get as big as GM, you lose sight of these things. Toyota, be careful.

"Pontiacs are boring cars with ugly interiors and insectoid styling"
- Once again, the lipstick on the pig thing, but ugly lipstick

"The cars we grew up wanting aren't even on the radar list of the generation that is growing up now. They want good mpg and crossovers."
- So explain to me again why Chevy has a "new" big-V8 Camaro?

I think there were several factors contributing to Pontiac demise. All started back in the 60's when John De Lorean got the idea of fitting a big block engine on a 2 door sedan. The GTO. The picture of performance grew more but GM took the idea and drop on everything with four wheels under the GM tent. Chevy run away with the concept. The 70's came and we know what happen. Performance went to memory lane but Pontiac got the Trans-Am concept going with the classic 'fire chicken' on the hood and some power train choices like turbo and big blocks. Of course we have to thank "smokey and the bandit". The 80's and 90's came;Pontiac started this era with a game swapping names. The results were a few good hits and several bad misses. The Pontiac name started to loose the recognition. The new century came and Pontiac started with naming cars with the "Geenumber". Unfortunately too little to late. The damage was done. The economy and fuel prices dig the grave.

Pontiac never regained its glory days of the 60's and early 70's due to gas crisis, new regulations, and added competition from foreign manufacturers. We can't just say it was all GM's fault in demise of the Pontiac, it is really a number of factors beginning with multiple goverment mandates, added regulations on emissions and fuel consumption, and overall consumer sentiment over their love for performance cars. Trying to keep Pontiac alive, GM tried to comply by giving consumer what they thought was a good product but in the process lost their sense of what the brand should be. Now, that GM is going to be pretty much owned by US goverment, it would be interesting to see how much better they can do running a car company. What interests are they going to protect?

Euro is making a lot of sense. Its not about jumping sharks, it about a changing landscape that has always changed in ways that were bad for Pontiac. Most Americans do not want performance cars or extroverted cars. Look at the success of Toyota in this country for proof. Americans largely want bland FWD appliances and crossovers- exactly what Toyota and Honda sell in droves. If you think about it Mazda is the closest non luxury parallel to Pontiac and they are a low volume brand that doesn't offer a RWD sedan or performance coupe. Nothing sold by Toyota or Honda even attempts to pick up were Pontiac left off because its not a segment of the market that many care about any more. Affordable performance is not important to most car buyers.