It's no secret that Acura has been marching to the beat of a different drummer in recent years. Whereas fellow Japanese luxo-brands Infiniti and Lexus have increasingly tried to beat the Germans at their own game, Acura's been standing on the wall like it was Poindexter. As our own Mr. Brauer noted in this space some time ago, Acuras are too often "Hondas turned up to 11" rather than distinctive luxury/performance vehicles. So what are the options? What can be done to make Honda's premium division competitive with the world's best?
3. Remember the Legend.
The last-generation Acura Legend was discontinued in 1995, and it's still one of the best-looking cars on the road. Yes, it was front-wheel drive, and yes, it only had a V6. But it positively oozed class and sophistication, which is precisely what a flagship luxury sedan is supposed to do. If Acura had kept that basic design language and cranked up the performance and technology, super-sedans like the Lexus LS, BMW 7 Series and Mercedes S-Class might have had something to worry about.
And what did we get instead? The lame first-generation RL (right), which debuted in 1996 with less horsepower than the Legend GS and completely forgettable, Accord-on-steroids styling. And the current second-generation RL, which likewise has milquetoast styling and lacks the power to be taken seriously as a flagship model. Acura is now completely out of the game in this segment. But the Legend is there as a reminder of what could have been -- and what could yet be.
2. Lose the grille.
Pretty please, with sugar on top. Or at least try to fix it. This bionic beak is on everything in Acura's lineup now, and like I said of the TL last week, I haven't met a single person who thinks it genuinely looks good. Not surprisingly, it's a negative talking point in practically every Acura review on the internet. Put this prediction in a time capsule: the Acura beak will eventually meet the same fate as Chris Bangle's more controversial efforts at BMW. It's just a question of when the company will decide to heed the near-universal criticism and take action.
1. Go the Audi way.
Yes, you heard me right. Do not go the Infiniti/Lexus way and try to be BMW or Mercedes. Look, people have been screaming at Honda to start doing rear-wheel-drive platforms for years, and with the exception of toys like the NSX and S2000, it just hasn't happened. Nor should it. Audi has shown that a premium brand can go toe-to-toe with the best while employing front-wheel-drive architecture. Forget the old "Japanese BMW" murmurs that Honda/Acura used to elicit; the obvious way forward for Acura is to become the Japanese Audi.
How? The first step is simple. Acura has already got one of the very best all-wheel-drive systems on the planet. It's called SH-AWD ("Super-Handling"), and it is the primary reason why the TL SH-AWD puts up handling numbers that are damn close to the Audi S4's despite rolling on a humble Honda Accord platform. Acura should make this system part of its identity, just like Quattro has become synonymous with Audi's products. Sure, a catchier name would be nice, but they can call it fried chicken as long as people remember that Acura is the Japanese luxury brand with that fancy all-wheel-drive thing. This would at once elevate Acura's brand image and obviate the need to develop rear-wheel-drive platforms in the Infiniti/Lexus mold.
The second step is more complex. Let's be frank: Acura has undeniably worked some magic with the Accord platform for TL SH-AWD duty, but it's troubling that Acura's best (only?) performance car is based on a plebian family sedan (and reveals vestiges of the Accord's relatively insubstantial feel over broken pavement). Other key models are just as derivative, including the TSX (Euro Honda Accord) and the MDX (Odyssey/Pilot). While Audi can get away with this because the Volkswagen platforms it starts with (Jetta/Golf, Passat, Touareg) have a premium character in the first place, it's considerably more difficult for Acura to turn workaday Hondas into world-beating luxury vehicles.
One platform that Acura hasn't done much with, however, is the current RL's, which (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to be a premium, purpose-built affair, and drives the part. Maybe that platform could be scaled to other Acuras, helping to give the brand a distinctive feel and character. Moreover, it could probably be sexed up for serious flagship duty -- see (3) above. I'm not saying Acura could morph into the Japanese Audi overnight, but these changes would certainly get the ball rolling in that direction.
Okay. Discussion time. Imagine that I'm running Acura, and you're my trusted senior leadership. I've just given you my pitch for Acura's reinvention. What's your reaction?
Josh Sadlier, Associate Editor
By jriz
on December 25, 2009
09:03 AM
Money.
By ahightower
on December 25, 2009
09:23 AM
1) I think they should become the new Lexus, not the next Audi. They can do that by having the best quality and reliability across the board. Now that the bloom is off of Toyota's rose, some of that negative publicity is going to affect Lexus. A lot of folks will be happy to move to the "other" Japanese luxury brand. (And I don't think they'll immedidiately turn to Nissan/Infiniti because of its reputation as being more sporty and, not unreliable per se, but less bulletproof than Toyota once was.)
2) Going after Lexus doesn't mean they have to be boring to look at or drive. But they do need to be richer and quieter inside, and tone down the styling some.
3) Like you said, shoot for the stars. Lexus started right at the top, with a 7-series/S-class competitor in the LS. Cadillac's failure in that segment will keep it in the second tier. I predict Jaguar will make huge gains with the new XJ. They may not sell as many, but at least they are considered to be a "real" luxury brand. The lack of a Type X replacement may even appeal to some high end buyers that don't want there to be an "entry level" into their snobby brand. So, if Acura really wants to make a splash, they need to be competitive in the big sedan category. They should even call it the Legend. Forget the RSX and NSX until this is done.
3)
By greenpony
on December 25, 2009
11:35 AM
I agree with reinventing Acura's flagship sedan, and ditching the hideous shnoz. But I find Lexuses just as boring as Acuras, so I disagree with persuing that route, ahightower. Audi is probably the right benchmark to target, in whatever way they can, but maybe target it as a VW or Saab -- premium but not luxury -- especially since Saab's future is uncertain. Because if I was considering a move to a premium or luxury fwd sedan right now, certainly VW/Audi and Saab (RIP) would be on the list, but Acura would not.
By firstwagon
on December 25, 2009
12:57 PM
Forget the Legend, remember the Integra.
The Legend was a nice car and they sold a bunch of them but it was nothing compared to the hit the Integra was. Everything from basic RS commuters to full on screamers like the type R.
They still have a big following dispite the forgetable RSX.
Few remember the Legend.
By dougtheeng
on December 26, 2009
04:39 PM
Ditch the beak. DO IT NOW.
By 1487
on December 27, 2009
04:59 AM
RL is still based on Accord- it just offers AWD. Acura is luxury lite and Honda obviously based profit margin estimates on charging customers huge premiums for Honda based vehicles. I don't think they are prepared to invest billions in unique platforms for Acura. In fact, Honda execs have already said that Acura in the future need not be about hp races and RWD, it needs to be about value and eco luxury. Don't expect any major differentiation from Honda in the near future.
By estreka
on December 27, 2009
08:40 AM
1. The Legend was a great vehicle, but I'd hardly call it groundbreaking. In this day and age, it's extremely difficult to differentiate yourself in the luxury market. Hell, it's hard to differentiate yourself from the regular market. Most luxury cars today are just warmed over regular cars. So sure, remember the Legend, but don't base your entire lineup on a successful model from the 20th century.
2. Couldn't agree more.
3. Firstwagon has a better idea. Remember the Integra. If Acura stopped bothering with luxury and instead focused on well-tuned sport models, they would have their own niche. Think of Acura as a corporate Mugen or AMG.
By SadButTrue
on December 27, 2009
01:23 PM
@1487,
The RL is based on the Accord? Really? Got any proof of that? It would have to be the previous-generation Accord, since the RL came out before the current Accord...
@estreka,
Yeah, my point about the Legend was simply that it actually looked like a flagship (in fact, the 7 Series that came out in the mid-'90s seems to have been inspired by the Legend to some extent). I don't want Acura to base its entire lineup on the Legend per se; I just want to see that design language return, because Acura hasn't had a flagship-looking sedan since.
-JS
By bodyblue
on December 28, 2009
05:19 AM
Josh, do not argue with the 1487-of-nine-unit..resistance is futile.
By 1487
on December 28, 2009
06:18 AM
Honda only uses a handful of platforms- at least in the US market. Fit, Civic, Accord, Odyssey/Pilot- not aware of any other platforms. If you look at the dimensions of the TL/RL/Accord they are VERY similar with no more than a couple inches differeing between major dimensions. Not sure why the RL wouldn't be based on the Accord.
Either way, it doesn't matter because a Honda exec has already hinted at the direction Acura is going- and its not going to be worrying about trying to outdo BMW. Again, you need dedicated platforms to really compete in the luxury arena. Lexus did that from the start with the LS400. Cadillac had to do it in the early 2000s with the sigma platform.
By 1487
on December 28, 2009
06:44 AM
"Josh, do not argue with the 1487-of-nine-unit..resistance is futile."
Just looked up the RL on wikepedia. The Accord (Inspire in Japan), Legend (aka RL in the US), Odyssey, and Honda Elysion are all related. Nothing indicates the RL is on a different platform and the car is branded a Honda in Japan as its always been. The first Legend was based on the Accord and it appears to this day the RL is based on the Accord.
By bepperb
on December 28, 2009
07:13 AM
1487 continues to amaze with his perfect knowlege of everything and his use of the Wikipedia to prove his point. Oh, it's branded as a Honda in Japan? So was the NSX. Must mean that was an Accord, too!
By 1487
on December 28, 2009
07:45 AM
bepperb:
No the fact that its a Honda in Japan, has similar dimensions, is a 4 door sedan, has the same basic V6 and suspension system and same profile are what leads me to believe its based on the Accord. If you have evidence showing its not feel free to show it. Its common knowledge that every Acura is based on a Honda product. Here's another newsflash: the MDX is based on the Odyssey.
But you are probably right, Honda created an all new FWD/AWD platform for the RL that just happens to be sized just like the American Accord. It makes perfect sense.
By chavis10
on December 28, 2009
07:57 AM
The current Accord is on the same platform as the previous Accord to my knowledge and platform is the basis of with the TSX, TL and RL. The current Accords dimesions and wheelbase are basically the same as the RL now. It seems that when Honda wanted to increase the size of the Accord, they simply used the slightly larger RL as the basis as it already had the extended wheelbase. I believe the TL has roughly a 1" shorter wheelbase than the RL and Accord but shares a common architecture.
By chavis10
on December 28, 2009
08:10 AM
Also, in order for Acura to emulate Audi, they'd have to go back to the tranverse mounted engine design that the old Legend and Vigor/TL featured. Using a power takeoff from the front diff is not the most elegant want to get power to the rear axle.
I also disagree that a succsessor to the Legend would've been successful against MB, BMW and Lexus. A car of that size would've been heavy and since Honda refuses to make a V8 or even a turbo 6, they would've still remained the laughing stuck of the luxury arena. The Legend GS had NO torque by the way- I believe it was only 206 lbs-ft as it traded low RPM response for high RPM thrills. The first RL had 228 @ 2800 rpm or something so that powertrain was much more fitting to motivate a vehicle of that size. Acura was also using a 90 degree V6 which was unbalanced (MB still uses one).
By rsholland
on December 28, 2009
12:10 PM
"1. Go the Audi way."
Josh, you've been reading my mind. :) Acura should put their SH-AWD on everything that wears the Acura badge. That's where Acura's future lies: not RWD, but SH-AWD!
By mlh
on December 28, 2009
01:09 PM
Couldn't agree more with the Acura as Audi idea, especially with making SH-AWD a brand theme. Hopefully, someone from Acura is reading this!
By iskch
on December 28, 2009
02:00 PM
Acura already has hinted no V-8 power and no RWD car for the future. Really the only option for them is to work on more fuel efficient engines and hybrids to differentiate from the other makers. The "transformers look" already cross that point but badly I.M.O
1) Pricing. They are getting kill by the competition.
2) Leave TSX as a 4 cyl. base car and introduce a 4 cyl. turbo engine (the sport version maybe)
3) A little bit of make up on the TL front and back.
4) Re-think the RL. Do you want it to be the flagship car?
5) Pricing - Pricing!
6) Put new fuel efficient engines.
7) AWD and Money too.
By savetheland
on December 28, 2009
09:25 PM
Some folks here ridiculed the fact that Acura RL is based on Accord platform. Wholly agree with you guys - Honda indeed spent several billions dollars to develop brand new premium FWD platform to be used by Acura RL only, a.k.a. Honda Legend, having the same dimensions as Honda Accord. And no doubt it was the smart investment. Investment worth it - demand for the new FWD midsize Honda (a.k.a. Acura in US) on the unique unrelated to Accord platform but having the same dimensions was so huge in Japan, Europe and US that car buyers waited in long lines overnights in front of Honda (Acura) dealerships to be the first ones to snatch new hot Honda. I can imagine profit margins Honda makes on every Acura RL sold in US to justify investment. Because it has to - US is the largest market for Honda, especially midsized one.
I feel sorry for Audi engineers though - they have to use whatever leftover plebeian platforms they get from VW. Cannot imagine how Audi is able to compete with Acura since Acura's SH-AWD beats Quattro hands down and unlike Audi Honda developed unique platform for its flagship Acura RL.
By savetheland
on December 28, 2009
09:31 PM
P.S. I wonder though why Honda did not spent all those billions to develop midsize RWD platform instead of developed new midsize FWD platform from ground up for just one car.
By irvg37
on December 28, 2009
11:05 PM
I disagree w. the notion of targeting Audi as the target. Since when did Audi become one of the most venerable automakers in the industry to emulate? I don't get it.
Acura can be Acuras. Honda has plenty of character that separates it from the other brands, that Acura can borrow in their luxury lines. But what's troubling to me, is that Honda/Acura has lost coolness, hip-ness that it used to have, as represented by models such as Integra, RSX, slim and sporty profiles of Accords and Civics. Honda has eliminated the cool cars, and fattened their existing cars into ridiculously massive proportions. WRONG WRONG WRONG!!
So, here's my suggestion:
1) Stop enlarging the current vehicle line. Rather, make them slimmer, sportier, and nimbler, more akin to the cool Hondas of the past. Don't become like a bunch of Lincolns.
2) Bring back the cool cars for the young buyers: the Integras, RSXs, S2000 updates, NSX... The current Honda/Acura lines have no character--bereft of cool cars as well as true luxury cars.
Thanks
By SadButTrue
on December 28, 2009
11:31 PM
@irvg37,
Interesting counterproposal, and good commentary here: "Honda/Acura has lost coolness, hip-ness that it used to have, as represented by models such as Integra, RSX, slim and sporty profiles of Accords and Civics. Honda has eliminated the cool cars, and fattened their existing cars into ridiculously massive proportions. WRONG WRONG WRONG!!" There's an uncomfortable amount of truth in what you say. Sad but true, if you will.
@savetheland,
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or trying to make a serious point. I'll assume it's the former, but feel free to clarify if it's the latter.
@1487,
"Here's another newsflash: the MDX is based on the Odyssey."
Right, this newsflash is in the original post.
"Its common knowledge that every Acura is based on a Honda product."
In the RL's case, no, it's not. No one has conclusively established in this discussion that the RL is based on a Honda other than the current-gen Legend. Wikipedia's "Honda Legend" entry does list the Accord, Odyssey, and Elysion as models "related" to the current-gen Legend, but do you realize what that would mean? Every Acura would be based on the same Accord architecture. Plausible, sure, but (admittedly quite interesting) news to me if true. I'll need more evidence to believe it.
Now consider that in Wikipedia's "Acura RL" entry, the word "Accord" does not occur once. If it's "common knowledge" that the RL is based on a Honda other than the Legend, then why isn't it mentioned in the RL entry? The immediate takeaway here, obviously, is that Wikipedia is not infallible. But then we've got to figure out what to make of the information these two entries contain.
I think the most we can reasonably conclude from Wikipedia is that the first-generation Acura Legend was based on the Accord of that era. And I haven't found anything else online that credibly claims much more than that. I'll believe anything if it can be proven, but the RL's Accord (or whatever) roots have yet to be. If anyone can provide proof, please do.
-JS
By savetheland
on December 29, 2009
12:46 AM
SadButTrue, I am absolutely serious. Honda invested heavily into development of absolutely new midsize FWD platform which has nothing in common with Accord. Acura RL sells so well that I am sure Honda will recoup their investment soon if not already.
By mcmanus
on December 29, 2009
05:29 AM
Yes, when Acura launched the Legend and Integra were sporty breathes of fresh air. What Honda corporate has lost is sportiness. The niche I see that is missing is to offer FWD (and AWD option) sport/premium cars, not luxury cars. Forget the SUV thing, it’s been done and overdone. Start with two cars on Acura unique platforms. Styling throughout must be from a fresh start. Market to 30/40 year olds upscalers. Change Honda racing to Acura racing and further distance from Honda.
One of the constant complaints of the Integra was that it was an overpriced Civic. Offer it as a sedan with hatch and folding hardtop convertible. Make it “personal sized” like the TSX. Offer two engines: turbo 4 or V6. Make sure there is no overlap back to Honda offerings, especially the Civic. FWD or AWD, automatic or manual.
Go ahead and use the name Legend 2 for the bigger car. Offer V6 with and without turbo. Have sedan and coupe s. Again FWD or AWD, automatic or manual. Absolutely no overlap back to Honda (I don’t want any implication of this being some weird souped up version of a Pilot or Accord).
Like Honda 30 years ago, keep the factory option lists to near zero, but equip them well. Plenty of variants are already listed above (a total of 16) and represent IMO real choices. Like Scion today let dealers offer add ons (wheels/tires, audio upgrades, flaps/mats, etc.).
By bodyblue
on December 29, 2009
05:36 AM
Josh, as we speak 1487 is sitting in his corvette jammies reading every industry talking point and online article to try and prove his point. He will throw out claims and other BS then try an back it up with "known facts" then when called on it will not post any more on that thread.
1487, JS actually works in the auto biz....I think he probably knows what he is talking about. Using Wiki as a source is laughable.....someday if you get your drivers license you will understand more about cars.
By 1487
on December 29, 2009
11:45 AM
"In the RL's case, no, it's not. No one has conclusively established in this discussion that the RL is based on a Honda other than the current-gen Legend. Wikipedia's "Honda Legend" entry does list the Accord, Odyssey, and Elysion as models "related" to the current-gen Legend, but do you realize what that would mean? Every Acura would be based on the same Accord architecture. Plausible, sure, but (admittedly quite interesting) news to me if true. I'll need more evidence to believe it."
What evidence exists that the RL is a separate platform? Please remember that SEPARATE means totally unique. Do you honestly believe the RL which has almost the SAME dimensions as the Accord and shares suspension layout and engine with Accord is not BASED on the Accord? I mean as far as I can tell all we have is your word that the car is on a separate platform. I dont believe Honda execs are stupid and it would be stupid to create a brand new platform for a low volume Acura. The reality is that many import brands are not forthcoming about their platforms and I suspect this is to hide the fact that expensive cars like the RL are based on plebian cars like the Accord. The RL is the Legend and as far as I can tell the Legend is simply a US Accord sized Honda in Japan that sits above the smaller Japanese/Euro Accord. Nothing I read and nothing in the specs suggests the Legend/RL is a totally unique product.
"1487, JS actually works in the auto biz....I think he probably knows what he is talking about. Using Wiki as a source is laughable.....someday if you get your drivers license you will understand more about cars."
There's my shadow? I've been looking for you all day? Welcome. I love how you follow me around, its flattering.
By 1487
on December 29, 2009
12:01 PM
"1487, JS actually works in the auto biz....I think he probably knows what he is talking about. Using Wiki as a source is laughable.....someday if you get your drivers license you will understand more about cars."
Question: What reputable source would you recommend for learning about the history of Honda products? Please provide a link and I will gladly use it. The Honda info on wikepedia is likely compiled by rabid Honda fanboys who have exhaustively researched these vehicles. What better source are you advocating? While Wiki isn't infallable you nor Josh is providing a better source of info.
I just read some of the press releases from the 2005 RL and NOTHING indicated the car is on a new platform relative to the Accord. The first RL was basically a redesigned Legend- which was based on the Accord.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/757/releases/2722
By huyracing
on December 29, 2009
12:15 PM
Acura's designer should commit hari kiri. Acura once had the Integra Type R and the NSX causing excitement for the brand... now they have nothing. These cars weren't so much luxury, but sporty and looked good. THIS was Acura.
By 1487
on December 29, 2009
12:27 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Legend
This indicates the Honda Legend (RL) and US Accord are related.
Based on my reading there are three separate models based on the Accord sold in the US and Japan. The TSX is the Japanese Accord, the Inspire is the US Accord and the Legend is the Acura RL. There is no reason to believe all of these cars are not related. Little seems to indicate when the RL was ever on a completely new chassis. The 2005 model is an evolution of the previous model and that RL was an evolution of the Legend which was clearly based on the Accord of the mid 80s. If there is something (even from Honda) claiming the '96 or '05 RL models were on all new chassis I haven't seen it.
By savetheland
on December 29, 2009
02:43 PM
1487 as always you are wrong. What industry experts on this forum trying to tell is that Honda is the only one company in world capable of maintaining two absolutely separate FWD midsize platforms. It is all about Honda's engineering prowess. Do you really think they are so stupid to use existing FWD platform to develop RL and save money like all other companies in the world? No, Honda is special, they are so rich and have so many engineering resources that they would rather develop a new unique platform for every new car model, especially for the high volume model like RL, even if these models have identical dimensions, layout and exterior design. Because Honda never compromises on integrity. Never, ever, forever, together, are you with me? Yeah!
By 1487
on December 30, 2009
06:21 AM
point taken savetheland. I was out of line. Honda is too dedicated to excellence to share platforms.
By kingkhalas
on December 31, 2009
02:17 PM
josh...awesome.