Welcome to the All-American Face-Off Tournament.
First, some house keeping. Unlike the Hot Hatch Tournament where we broke our Elite 8 into divisions (Europe, Turbo Japan, etc.), we decided to just mix it up this time. Something about a Buick LaCrosse battling a Ford Raptor seemed rather amusing. As before, your votes will determine which car wins, but unlike before, voting will remain open until the end of the first round. But as we have yet to come up with a more sophisticated way of doing this, please make your vote clear in your comments.
Now, onto the first All-American Face-Off, which was transcribed during a weekend New Years Eve barbecue. In one corner stands Automotive Editor James Riswick in defense of the Ford Flex, that beloved family hauler that keeps racking up miles in the Edmunds long-term fleet. In the other corner sitting uncomfortably in a broken lawn chair drinking a Bud Light Golden Wheat is Associate Editor Mark Takahashi, who shall carry the flag for the Dodge Challenger, that mean-old Mopar that has grown on us throughout its stay in the LT fleet.
May the battle commence.
Opening Statements
James Riswick for the Ford Flex
I'm a 26-year-old dude defending a three-row, six-passenger, humungous family vehicle with rear seat entertainment and 28 cupholders. Yes, it would seem like I was going to pick my favorite American car, but then I got high. But alas America, Riswick is not high (although he is apparently referring to himself in the third person).
The Ford Flex has made it possible to own a big old family vehicle and still look cool, especially when you order it looking like a hearse or an ambulance. I suppose something about death or potential death makes something look especially cool. I've had my 13-year-old shaggy-haired cousin tell me the Flex was cool. I've had 26-year-old bachelor party friends tell me it was cool. Magrath really wants one, and judging by how much black he wears, the Johnny Cash rule dictates he too is cool (man I hope I meet him in the finals again). The Flex's ability to be highly functional, very well built, solidly reliable and cool makes it unique, and helped it win the Edmunds Family Hauler Comparison Test. Oh, and I almost forgot the EcoBoost model, which goes like stink. How much stink? Zero-to-60 in 6.4 seconds, which is 1.7 seconds better than the Challenger V6 model that just stinks.
And let us also not forget that the Flex is essentially the brashly styled modern equivalent of the station wagon. Sure, it's no retro muscle car, but I say that's pretty damn American.
Mark Takahashi for the Dodge Challenger
Hey James, YOU'RE CANADIAN! I'm sure the Flex has plenty of space for your curling stones and hockey sticks, so maybe that's the draw. Take it from the red-blooded American Japanese guy, the Dodge Challenger is as American as blowing stuff up. Raise the flag and salute, my overly practical friend, because here in the U. S. of Heck-Yeah, we like big honkin' V8s, greasy smoky burnouts and styling that scares other countries into retreat.
The Challenger is mean. It's brash. The Flex is as evocative as a kitchen appliance. The Challenger's exhaust note is intoxicating and addictive. Do you even know what the Flex sounds like? I'm guessing a refrigerator with a bad compressor.
What's more, the Dodge Challenger has got plenty of space for a two-door muscle car, a thumpin'-good sound system and a comfortable ride. I can effectively terrify four adult passengers to your five, terminally-bored occupants. So unless you're driving around the last five Playmates, the Flex ain't cool. Stick that in your center console fridge (next to your Labatt Blue)!
Rebuttals
Riswick:
You're right, I am Canadian. But then again, so is the Flex ... and the Challenger! We all hail from roughly the same area in suburban Toronto. Perhaps then we should be debating Best Canadian car? No, OK.
Despite liking the Dodge Challenger very much, I don't think it's the best American car. That title should go to something that showcases American ingenuity, and quite frankly, a car that's based on a '90s-era German luxury sedan with the carbon-copied styling of a car from 1970 does not do that. The Challenger is a celebration of the American past, not the here, now and future. The best American car should be something that is a class-leading vehicle, which truly stands strong against the world's best, not just America's. That definitely does not describe the Challenger -- that's the Ford Flex.
Takahashi:
Rats. How dare you try to confuse me with facts! You raise some interesting points, I'll admit, but I have to say, the best American car should look like a car, not the box it came in. Yes, the Flex is a great wagon/SUV/whatever you want to call it, but no matter how much techno-wizardry you can cram into this box, it's still a box to me. I don't find myself getting particularly giddy behind the wheel of the Flex. The Challenger gets my blood pumping and brings a smile to my face. In terms of "the pursuit of happiness," the big bad Dodge is my perfect choice for chasing down dreams.
So which is the better Amercian car? Which goes onto the next round?
The next Face-Off is this Thursday
By ahightower
on January 4, 2010
05:47 AM
Neither would make it to the finals for me, but in this round I gotta go with the Challenger.
I prefer focused, dedicated vehicles, not "nice compromises". If I want a truck, it's going to be a Super Duty, not a Ridgeline. If I want an off-roader, it's going to be a Wrangler, not a Forester. If I want a sports car, it's going to be a Corvette, not an Eclipse. If I want a hybrid, it's going to be a Prius, not an Aura Green Line. And if I want a family hauler, it's going to be a van, not a CUV.
By dscain
on January 4, 2010
06:03 AM
My views are the exact opposite of ahightower's. I really like the Challenger, and if I were to buy a revived pony car to add to my fleet, this would be it. However, if I were only going to have one car, it would be the Flex. Cool styling, lots of room, AWD, decent economy for the size, and very good driving dynamics (especially on the open road) all work for me.
My vote is for the Flex.
By sammin
on January 4, 2010
06:14 AM
I own a 08 Hemi Dodge Charger, the wife, a Ford Flex Limited....so it's a tough one.
I love the Flex, esp. when we have both kids with us, but at the end of the day, the Dodge is a better ride overall.
Since this is the Challenger (not Charger) vs. the Flex...I'll put my vote in for the Flex since I haven’t had any seat time with a Challenger.
By estreka
on January 4, 2010
06:29 AM
I'm with Riz on this one. Achieving coolness AND practicallity is really tough and the fact that Ford has done it is highly commendable.
By chrome58
on January 4, 2010
06:44 AM
Challenger. My god, why would any car guy choose differently? It's great looking, sounds awesome, has RWD and a V8, has the interior room and trunk space of a real car, so its relatively family friendly...
But, yeah, the rest of you have fun with your box-the-refrigerator-came-in Flex.
By cromagnum_man
on January 4, 2010
06:45 AM
Dodge Challenger - no contest!
By brn
on January 4, 2010
06:58 AM
It's a ridiculous comparison. Family wagon vs muscle car? They have completely different target audiences.
For my needs, I'll vote the the Flex.
By notabigdeal
on January 4, 2010
07:06 AM
Vote Flex. All American Challanger is for kids and mid-life crisis. Although fun is good, responsiblity dictates that the Flex is pure american goodness.
By carguy622
on January 4, 2010
07:11 AM
This is tough. I like both vehicles, but I'd have to go with the Flex just because it's the most well rounded of the two. Besides it's one of the first American cars in a while that interests more than just gear heads.
By old_volvo
on January 4, 2010
07:32 AM
I vote for Flex.
Cars like the challenger will not rescue the american car industry. They are just more of what we are good at (making big fast impractical cars)
The flex truly is a decent car with nice styling, lots of space and decent fuel economy.
By hybris
on January 4, 2010
07:32 AM
The Flex... why?
I ask what car will be still on the road 10+ years from now instead of being couped up in a garage for 9 months of the year (Except SoCal of course).
Not to mention what's more American than owning a large vehicle that can match or dance close to the same numbers as a lower end muscle car.
By mopar424
on January 4, 2010
08:08 AM
Challenger!. Flex is american yes, but it appeals also to buyers who look at import cuvs/minivans. No one cross-shops a Challenger with a Toyota Solara. Its beyond that.
By boxermike
on January 4, 2010
08:20 AM
Flex
Wait, do I get to vote?
-magrath
By f1mom
on January 4, 2010
08:33 AM
Which car would I rather use every day? Flex.
Which car causes me to grin like an idiot? Challenger.
But, since the Flex is such a fine appliance and so much more useful, I'll have to vote Flex.
(Though in my secret heart I love that snarling, black beast.)
By jazrit1988
on January 4, 2010
08:37 AM
My vote is the Dodge Challenger, Because what's more american than Dodge. You rarely hear that new or see it in any other country.
By cruiserhead1
on January 4, 2010
08:41 AM
Challenger R/T - excellent musclecar- the class of car America created. It will be a excellent musclecar in 10 years.
Flex- excellent appliance- just as the original Chrysler minivan was an excellent appliance - worth nothing in 10 years.
This contest is picking a "modern classic" or destined to be one. Greatness means, by definition, something lasting.
That means the Challenger stands above.
By iskch
on January 4, 2010
08:51 AM
Challenger.
By uncanny_man
on January 4, 2010
08:51 AM
You win this round flex. Both are made in Canada on foreign platforms, but at least the flex doesn't try to look like it doesn't. I guess.
By jstandefer
on January 4, 2010
09:33 AM
The Flex represents an ideal that used to make America so great... an ideal that can make America great once again if we choose to believe. The Flex (particularly in EcoBoost form) has three rows of adult-sized comfortable seats, looks cool, goes like stink, handles pretty well too, drives all four wheels, gets decent fuel mileage, has one of the highest tech engines around, and the best vehicle infotainment system. In other words, it has it all, and if America stops listening to the bleeding hearts and believes once again that it CAN have it all, like the Flex, we can once again rise to the top. And there's nothing more American than that. The Flex it is, for me.
By windsor5
on January 4, 2010
09:50 AM
Flex by far.
1. its reliable (1 flex lifetime is = to 5 challengers by my guesses =))
2. its a Ford considering that all dodges now are Fiats!!!! take that MOPAR!!!!!
3. Ecoboost is nuff said on the matter.
By dougtheeng
on January 4, 2010
10:07 AM
Challenger. Americans are full of attitude and so is the Challenger. The Flex is a great vehicle, but I don't think its distinctly American in any ways - it just happens to be designed by an American company. The Challenger, on the other hand, is something you would never see come out of Europe or Asia.
By felonious
on January 4, 2010
10:13 AM
As a future Flex owner, my vote obviously goes in that direction. The Challenger is a sweet car, but it drew the wrong matchup.
Flex +1!
By sabastian
on January 4, 2010
10:18 AM
I'm really only using one criteria here: Which would I rather have?
Easy...Challenger
By chuckg
on January 4, 2010
10:22 AM
Dodge Challenger.
By hank_ford
on January 4, 2010
11:14 AM
Ford Flex!
By yellowmiata
on January 4, 2010
11:27 AM
Flex - challenger is too heavy to be sporty. The Flex completes it mission much better.
By alaska44
on January 4, 2010
11:28 AM
Challenger got my vote.
By r1chwa1nwr1ght
on January 4, 2010
12:43 PM
The winner of this bracket must not only be a technological class leader but a car full of american passion.... unique to american culture... the ford flex looks like it has all the technology to be a winner but its main purpuse is a people carrier. Perhaps the challenger is lacking the tech (being an owner I disagree) but the challenger more than makes up for it in looks, sound, drive-ability (performance and comfort), and passion.
My vote is challenger.
By s2k1
on January 4, 2010
12:48 PM
Challenger. I like controversial looking cars usually, but I can't like the Flex.
By plumcrazy2
on January 4, 2010
12:51 PM
Challenger no question.
Let me ask you one question, You just won $50,000 on a $1 scratch ticket - Are you going to buy a Ford Flex? Not me, bring on the Hemi and a six speed.
By sherief
on January 4, 2010
01:02 PM
one vote for the Flex here.
By lvranger
on January 4, 2010
01:26 PM
Flex. Ford hit this one out of the park. Too bad the sales aren't showing it.
By aspade
on January 4, 2010
01:40 PM
Have trouble getting excited about shuttling around three rows of kids. Even if it does look different.
+1 to the Challenger.
By fuhteng
on January 4, 2010
02:08 PM
The Challenger over any minivan ever made.
By abyss
on January 4, 2010
02:36 PM
The Flex - it will get you there with compfort and style...while the Challenger will just break down on you.
By 7driver
on January 4, 2010
02:56 PM
As much as I'd like to see a pony car showdown in round 2, I'd have to go with...
Flex
By nomercy346
on January 4, 2010
04:09 PM
Challenger
Not a fan of CUVs even though the Flex is kinda cool. CUV = SUV minus capability
By mvisible
on January 4, 2010
05:13 PM
+1 for the Ford Flex. The Challenger's recent media reinvention as superb touring car had me thinking about it but the Flex seems more innovative to me so it gets my vote.
By subytrojan
on January 4, 2010
05:33 PM
I'm having trouble deciding. Challenger because it's faster!
By greenpony
on January 4, 2010
05:34 PM
Challenger.
By siarizona
on January 4, 2010
05:55 PM
Challenger all the way.
By ranger_bob
on January 4, 2010
06:18 PM
Flex.
By yankeez
on January 4, 2010
07:11 PM
Power. Attitude. Unapologetic. Shifter resembles a gun handle (on purpose).
Translation - Challenger all the way, baby.
By wjtinatl
on January 4, 2010
07:32 PM
Easy for me....
Flex is unique, nothing else looks like it and it's not a pseudo retro impersonation of something that wasn't that great when it was new. Remember, for every '70 Hemi Challenger there were 50 318 Challengers that just plain sucked. Kinda like a '10 Challenger with the V-6. Flex is also boring in base trim but at least is useful. In EcoBoost trim, it'll leave every other people hauler in the dust and look like nothing else doing it.
By b_boy_007
on January 4, 2010
08:03 PM
Flex gets my vote.
Flex: arguably best American vehicle in its class.
Challenger: not best American car in its class.
How can the Challenger win when its not even better than its own peers?
By surfwagon56
on January 4, 2010
10:54 PM
I'd go with the Flex. My wife would drive it (and love it, I'm sure), and I'd get a new 5.0 Mustang for myself.
By scl1970
on January 5, 2010
09:39 AM
Did I just land in at Bizzaro Edmunds? Picking the Flex is like picking a 1972 Pontiac Safari Wagon because the (3rd seat folds down) over a 1972 Muscle Car (any Muscle Car).
Dodge Challenger (even if I didn't own an 09 R/T)!
C'mon Man!
By alfaelan
on January 5, 2010
10:33 AM
This is a little difficult, but not as bad as the Flex Vs the Mustang will be.
The Challenger has the looks and the V8, but it is an old heavy outdated chassis that gets terrible mileage. It is typical of the Daimler-Chrysler shotgun marriage. It got the worst of the German cars in the heavy overly complicated chassis and the best of the American side in the styling and the V8. Unfortunately it also got the worst of the American side in the perception of unreliability and low quality. If it had gotten the best of both sides it would be a knock out.
The Flex on the other hand is the best of the swinging door minivans/wagons. It has distinctive style excellent interior (except for the headrests). It handles like a sporty luxury car in spite of it's weight and it hauls our family wonderfully (yes we bought one). It also tows the sports cars barely a hint of the extra 3,000 lbs.
So while I like the Challenger looks I wouldn't buy one (I'd get a Camaro or Mustang). The Flex on the other hand beats all of its competition hands down and with style.
So I'd have to say in this weird Face-Off I have to hand it to the Flex for being the best in it's class.
It will be interesting though when it comes down to the Corvette Vs The Ford. I still can't decide which Ford it will be The Fusion is the best mid sized car out there. The Flex is the best Wagon and the Mustang is in a tight race with the Camaro for best sporty 'Pony' car. Somehow I suspect it will come down to Flex Vs Mustang which will be difficult.
By debo1091
on January 5, 2010
01:13 PM
Challenger!
By BigFordFan150
on January 5, 2010
05:40 PM
flex sows technogly power the future and the past plenty of space practicality and coolness. nothing does coolness and space like the flex i love my flex
ford flex
By htees
on January 5, 2010
07:46 PM
Love the Challenger's NAZTY-ASS look and sound, but I've test driven both and the Flex was just a better put together unit. Cool looks, better materials, and the fact that I could take the party with me......this gets the flex a vote!
By crowb
on January 6, 2010
11:53 AM
Ford Flex.
By seattlekate
on January 6, 2010
11:58 AM
We have been a long time Ford family and I have to say the Ford Flex is the best car we've ever owned. Love the design or not (we love it), Ford dared to break from the crowd and design a vehicle that stands out and has people taking notice. I still get stopped every week by people wanting to see my car.
How about all of the new technology you can't get on a Challenger - we love our fridge, Sync, Sirius Travel Link and the cool glass roof.
Oh, don't forget EcoBoost - 355 horsepower and great ride and handling. You expect performance from a Challenger, not a 7-passenger family hauler which makes Flex my pick, hands down.
By adeckich
on January 6, 2010
12:05 PM
Challenger period.
By auto4fun
on January 6, 2010
06:08 PM
My vote goes to the Ford Flex.
While it pains me to not vote for the car that has an awesome V8 (when I consider myself an enthusiast), I think the Flex is truly innovative and well executed.
By 3ricchu
on January 7, 2010
11:45 PM
Challenger.
By motorstreet
on January 8, 2010
04:24 AM
I think the Flex is better. The Challenger is a good car, but the Comaro and Mustang are both much better. The Flex has a good design and the new Ecoboost V6. The Flex is competitive with the Japanese crossovers form Toyota and Honda.
By nightvzn
on January 8, 2010
01:08 PM
The Flex is so painfully hideous, I could never consider voting for it unless it was pitted against a garbage truck (and maybe some nicely styled garbage trucks would still come out on top).
Seriously, though, while the Flex may win out on practicality and value over the Challenger, I could never seriously support something obviously designed by a styling department trying way too hard to be cool/hip/chic, and in the process, producing a monstrosity typical of such efforts. (And as with all unfettered trend-chasing, even though it may look "cool" now, the Flex will look horribly dated in just a few short years.)
Having said that, the Challenger is a blatant piece of design hyperbole too, but somehow significantly less offensively so (and I'm not even a fan of the retro look).
By french4
on January 9, 2010
08:11 AM
my vote goes to the flex.
Sorry chrysler...