After 12 years of working at the world's premier car-buying Web site I pride myself on knowing all the ins and outs of finding the right car to meet one's needs while avoiding the costly games played by your average dealer.
But having this level of confidence in one area of consumer shopping doesn't automatically translate to other areas involving large financial outlays. In fact, knowing all the pitfalls in the car-buying arena only heightens my sense of dread when I embark on a costly excercise in an area for which I have little advanced knowledge.
In this case I'm talking about home improvments and the search for a capable, trust-worthy contractor. The similarities between not getting taken at the car lot and not getting taken on your home lot are too obvious (and frightening) to ignore.
First, while I might have a sense of how I want to improve my home I don't know exactly what to do and how to do it. This is similar to the person who has an idea of his vehicle needs but doesn't know which vehicle is best suited to meet them. In both cases we can do research and ask for feedback from experts, but ultimately we can't really know how well we chose until after we've made our commitment and paid our money.
Second, just as most people have to take a dealer's word on paying a fair price for a car I am at the mercy of a contractor when it comes to knowing if he's charging me enough to make a fair profit (versus bleeding me for all I'm worth). There is no True Market Value calculator for contractor work, so my only option is to get several quotes and hope the contractors aren't all in the same "bleed them dry" game (if they are all the quotes will come back with roughly the same number and seem "fair," putting me right back where I started).
Third, just as car buyers have some guidance on vehicle quality (ratings and user feedback from multiple sources) the average buyer still has to take on faith that his or her specific vehicle was put together by a group of people who knew what they were doing and cared enough to do it right. Same for home improvement work. I'm not a contractor and can only hope the quality of workmanship performed on my property is up to the standards I would demand if I was a building expert. And let's face it, if I was really that well versed in construction I'd probably oversee the project myself.
People commonly rank car shopping (or at least going to a car dealer) up their with dental visits and tax audits in the spectrum of activities they'd rather avoid. I've been seriously considering a specific home upgrade for years but haven't yet pulled the trigger. I've told myself I'd rather save the money and not deal with the inconvenience (excuses I'm betting many folks use to put off car buying, too), but now I'm willing to admit the truth: I simply don't have any confidence in my ability to execute on a serious home improvement project because I don't have the expert knowledge to ensure it gets done right.
Maybe it's time for Edmunds to start a new Web site covering a new topic? Any interest out there in an "Edmunds.com: Where smart home improvements start"?
By vic_pe
on March 2, 2010
06:17 AM
I can attest to the problems of contractor choice mostly because I have experience being in the industry. I ran for 3 years a student painting business and ran across a lot of those examples. Customers tell me about their experiences with shady contractors, running away after half the job is done, no proper service when they finish and touch-ups are required, etc.
Choosing a contractor IMO is way harder because at least with a car you can take it anywhere to get service, but with a bad contractor job, you're gonna start the search all over if you need help with fixing it.
As always, DIY is a good option, but not all of us have good handymen hands and so the search has to be done with a keen eye for honest people.
By 06scooby
on March 2, 2010
06:28 AM
referrals, referrals, referrals from other people! Word of mouth is one of the most "effective" ways of research in the construction community.
By blueguydotcom
on March 2, 2010
08:05 AM
Talk to friends, relative and neighbors who've had work done. You've got to know someone in another industry...
We redid our kitchen 2 years ago. I lined up all the work, the deliveries, etc. We had out 1950's kitchen torn out down to the studs. Removed a wall. Added a pony wall. Added 8 circuits, new can lights, routed the gas and water to different places, put up new drywall, mudded, new floors, painted, cabinets, new appliances and new granite counters. All told it took 5 weeks from the day we had the first cabinets yanked until the granite was put in.
I'd never done a home project of that size. Made a couple mistakes (put an outlet too close to the stove so it looks funny and my mudding on one patch isn't good) but overall if you do your research and line up folks it's not a big deal.
I'd literally have someone in one day doing the drywall and the very next the floors would go in. It was all very tight but I don't like downtime so I kept everything moving sharply until we were stuck waiting 1 week extra for the granite guys (they also wouldn't come during 4th of July week).
Finally, Edmunds TMV is for suckers. Those are people who want the average price. That's like going into a place and saying, "I want to negotiate to the mid-point and no further...gimme what others get." Wow, how shrewd.
By firstwagon
on March 2, 2010
09:01 AM
"(if they are all the quotes will come back with roughly the same number and seem "fair," putting me right back where I started)."
It's a bigger problem if the quotes are all over the board. Who do you believe?
My neighbour is a contractor and he run into several guys that will give a low bid to get the job and that come back when it's half done and demand more money.
There are also guys who have little idea what they are doing but will give you a low price on anything. He's seen quotes that are less then the cost of the materials and when the guy realizes he can't finish it he just disappears.
On the other end there are guys that are too busy but will quote you a far too high price to see if you go for it. A lot do thinking they are paying extra to get the very best. He will do the job of course but you pay a premium price for an average job.
"referrals, referrals, referrals from other people"
Good place to start if you know people who have had work done. Don't put a lot of faith in referrals given by the contractor. He will never refer you to a job that went bad or he screwed up on.
My suggestion is research as much as possible. Learn all you can about the products and prices so you can tell who knows his trade and who doesn't. Not a perfect system but the best I can think of (we are hopeing to redo our house in the next year).
Good luck
By editor_karl
on March 2, 2010
09:20 AM
Blueguy, your comments on TMV may be true (if a bit overstated). However, with my lack of knowledge on home improvement costs and quality if I could be assured of just paying the "average" industry price for a home improvement job I'd be thrilled (sure I'd love to get a great deal, but just knowing I'm not getting screwed would be enough to let me sleep at night). This is why TMV is so helpful for the majority of car buyers, as few have a solid idea of what a "fair" price for a given vehicle is.
By blueguydotcom
on March 2, 2010
10:04 AM
Fair turns out to be what you're comfortable with. We just had a 4 quotes for replastering/tiling our pool. Two were nice but we didn't have much to back up their work. One guy came highly recommended by some longtime friends. Another good one was a suggestion from our pool guy. We were on the fence but two things pushed it over for us.
1. When we were picking out tiles at NPT (only tile supplier around) the guy we were talking to asked who was doing the work. We mentioned the first company and he shot back, "Oh NAMEXXXX, he's a great guy." No hesitation, nothing phony, just a genuine enthusiasm for the person.
2. The suggestion from our friends turned out to be a bit too wonky for us. Getting a written quote took 4 weeks and in general I didn't get a professional feel. His price was actually lower than the guy we picked but I really, really didn't like the "go with the flow" socal vibe he pushed. Sure he was cheaper and called willing to go lower but sometimes saving $500-1000 isn't a savings at all.
We just got our San Diego rental property painted by guys who were suggested by our renter. They did such a great job at such a low price that we quickly hired them for our house too. Sometimes it's just kismet.
Talk to people in your neighborhood. And friends. Through friends we've made a connection with a great electrician who in turn led us to really good independent contractors. My realtor also gave us a good hookup with a handyman who so far has been exceedingly fair on pricing for his time, materials and attention to detail.
We're project people so we tend to always have some scheme cooking. :)
By editor_karl
on March 2, 2010
10:14 AM
Sounds like you've got some great connections. With the confidence I'd have using your folks maybe I should ask them if they're willing to drive up to Ventura county and just pay a little extra. :)
By carlisimo
on March 2, 2010
11:25 AM
The closest thing in the car world is picking a dealer – that would be a worthwhile place for Edmunds.com to put effort into. I frequent a Miata forum and one of the recent topics is the poor performance of Mazda dealerships in polls. That’s not going to help good but under-marketed cars get noticed.
I’ve worked for a building contractor in the commercial and school sectors, where the trend is moving away from picking low bids towards picking contractors like you’d pick a consultant: proposals, interviews, references, etc. I’m of the opinion that low bids don’t save money. In residential construction, the best you can do is make sure different bids cover all the same little details as each other. Feel free to ask them to price out options and if something is on one bid, ask the other guys if they’ve included that too (direct price shopping is frowned upon and often counterproductive).
Take painting for example. Does a house painter’s bid include removing/masking light switch plates and putting them back? It’s just like the trim on a car that’s being repainted. As with Maaco paint jobs, you can do some of that work yourself to save money. Look for those parallels with the things you know.
By blueguydotcom
on March 2, 2010
03:04 PM
Karl, it doesn't hurt to ask at Edmunds. Maybe try friends on Facebook? Didn't you have renters? Maybe they work in an industry where you can trade rent for services? Or they know someone. At your kids soccer/scouts/etc events drop to some parents that you're looking to do X to your house. People love to recommend a person they believe is fair and a good price. It's like they're helping the world turn out right by connecting good workers with good people.
By misterfusion
on March 2, 2010
05:00 PM
Karl: I have no affiliation with the company, and I have never used it for home improvement purposes, but you may want to give Angie's List a shot. I found some pretty useful testimonials when I was looking for a local mover.
Downside: angieslist.com is a pay site, but the cost was pretty reasonable IMO.
By estreka
on March 2, 2010
10:49 PM
Talk to the experts. I give zero credence to regular folks who "have good things to say" about a contractor. I had the great fortune to live next door to a contractor and my knowledge of the contracting process isn't too bad these days.
I can't speak for big cities, but I can tell you that the contracting business in small towns is a scam. Every contractor is in cohoots with the local oversight agency. Permits are just service fees to "the system." In Texas, this system works at the state level. Perry Homes is the near-exclusive builder of homes there. No surprise, the owner of Perry Homes pays the salaries of the Chairs of the Dept of Licensing & Regulation. So in order to become a licensed electrician/plumber/etc, you must work for a company that's already in the business in excess of 6 years. At that point, you might as well stay with the company.
Speaking of asking the savvy, I'm moving to Lompoc in July and I plan on buying a house. Being a homeowner in the general area, got any suggestions?
By editor_karl
on March 5, 2010
01:56 PM
I've only driven through Lompoc, but I suspect it's another one of those communities that will only get more attractive (and expensive) over time. It's got the desirable trait of being close to the coast in California, and while it's not considered convenient to places like Santa Barbara or Pismo Beach the truth is it's less than an hour away from them (which is nothing by California commuter standards). Just get something with some land around it and you should do fine long term while enjoying temperate seasons.
By myob
on March 11, 2010
06:06 PM
The comment about Edmunds doing something related to rating dealers is a good idea.
There are a few dealer rating sites on the web, but they are pathetically sparsely used.
A website that would allow registered users to rate dealership experiences would be great. It would probably drive a lot of traffic here that doesn't come normally, as one uses a dealership more often than he buys a new car.