well the A6 3.2 is a little underpowered compared to the 535 but it is indeed cheaper. The 5 series is quite steep when compared to most cars in its class and its not worth the premium. Since the A6 is lacking in power (unless you get the V8) I would get an M35 or 2008 STS V6 over this car any day. I am not convinced the M35 looks better than the 5 but the price difference is enough to make you overlook that. The STS V6 is also substantially cheaper and now offers serious power and sport package to to compete with the 535. I find the 535's interior to be one of the dullest in this entire segment and I would rank it below just about every competitor, even the 2008 STS.

While there are few cars I'd take before a 3-series, the 5 (save for the e39 m5) has never plucked my heartstrings. Infiniti's M45, even with no manual option, and a sport package is my pick of this litter.

I think I kind of agree......this is a much tighter group than the 3 and its competitors. For me, this is based on avid car guy perception not actual experience with any of them. I think each of them do a great job and I might add the Lexus GS in there too (always been my favorite Lexus). I'm inclined to say that this 5 is still a great car and that it's mostly that the others have closed in on it. If I was in the market.....I'd have a much harder time choosing amongst this group - in the end it would probably be the 5. The E350 would have to be some sort of sport version to make it enough of a sports sedan for me - same for the A6, GS and M35/45, but less so – the 5 has it right out of the box. I don't know how they compare pricing wise but if it's similar to what we found shopping the 3, the 5 gets even more attractive. Our 3 experience and things you said yesterday Karl about value today and down the road, sort solidified a general thought I had that BMW is in quite an enviable position. The dealership by us is always very busy; they can lease great cars at competitive or better rates, fully maintain the records on them and then have a solid CPO business too. BMW seems to have a great thing going and it appears to be solid and gaining momentum.

I (like many of you) lament the passing of the previous generation 5. The 2003 530i was my favorite 5 series of all time. (I don't consider the M5 to be a real 5 series, but rather hercules on wheels)
 
The styling of the exterior of the rear turns me off. The flame sides are not my favorite and the cat eye treatment of the lights seems over the top.
 
On the other hand the interior is very well built. The materials are impecable. But I like many others hate the iDrive. So much so that I would rather not have the 5. Personally, for my driving habits, I can't really stand Navigation Systems anyway. Especially when they take away the simple controls that allow me instant gradification either with climate change or audio stimulation.
 
I know where I am going! I don't need a computer to tell me. Ironically the only car I would consider a navigation system on is the Wrangler or other 4x4, were I was far away from the road.

Karl,
 
Spot on...since the 3 has moved up in size and capability to where the e34 5-series used to be, the 5 is lost as a 'tween' car between the 3 and the hapless 7-series.
 
Frankly, I consider the e39 5-series to be the pinnacle of BMW, possibly of sedans in general. No iDrive, awesome engines, amazing room and capability, and timeless styling. From the lowest 525 to the fire-breathing M5, those were amazing cars.
 
BMW's foray into telematics (Which, I feel, was just a reaction to Mercedes' COMMAND system) was a mistake.

Luxury cars in general are getting closer and closer in performance and features so paying a huge premium for a BMW bagde is becoming increasingly pointless to me. Prior to the 3 series getting the new 300hp engine I would've said it wasnt a best buy in that category. It still isnt a great value, but at least now for your money you are going to get the fastest car in the compact luxury class. The 535 may or may not get the same distinction in its class but at these prices you need to offer more than best quarter mile times. The 5 is good looking except for the rear end and it's materials are top notch, but its still too damn expensive and small. Fortunately for BMW common sense is rarely a factor in the average BMW owner's decision making process. The 5 seems to be doing quite well in spite of mediocre reviews , less than perfect styling and astronomical, highest-in-class pricing.

How's the engine feel? The 535 is pretty close in weight to the piggy 335i, so I'm curious if the turbo offers the same kind of freight train on steroids feel.
 
FWIW, you can get screaming good lease deals on 5 series cars. Get the car through European Delivery and sub-$400 a month payments are possible - especially with the $1000 BMW CCA rebate.

The first defining characteristic of a sporty car (for me) is a manual transmission. In this group, only the BMW delivers. However, if I'm not getting a V8, I'd probably take a G35 6MT over a 5-series. About the same size, much less expensive, and better looking IMHO.

Here' my breakdown of the competition:
  
A6: underpowered and ugly- huge front overhang. It does have a nice cockpit but overall I'd pass.
  
STS: better looking for '08. 302hp on 87 octane and available spt pckg w/ Brembos. Large and probably a comfy ride. Distinctive in a crowd of look-at-me-followers. Clean dash board with touchscreen interface (like the GS).
  
M35: not really feeling this one either. It's proportions are all wrong. Look at the specs- it's extremely tall and narrow on a long wheelbase which is the exact opposite for sporting pretensions. As C&D said, the dashboard resembles an ATM.
  
GS: I like everything but the rear quarter styling. Where does the trunk begin and the C pillar end? L-Finesse went a bit far on the rear of the car. Otherwise, I like the rest of package and the interior. high tech dual injection engine
  
E class- Interior is completely outdated. It has an old school low mounted small nav screen and why does a huge clock have a place in the instrument cluster? Climate controls should never be mounted above more frequently used radio- that is elementary. It's clearly behind the trend. Exterior looks good yet again dated. It's also time for Benz (and Audi) to make a proper high output 60 degree V6- not a 90 degree cut off V8 (it's the old 4.3 V8 with two less cylinders).
  
I like the 535's styling other than the stupid tailights. The front 3/4s are perfect and the only BMWs have that hunkered down wheelwell to tire relationship. The car has wonderful road presence especially with Sport pckg and it's wide tires. Interior has a plain verticle slap of black plastic right in front of the passenger. Twin cowl scoop is nasty looking and the door armrest looks like origami on crystal meth. iDrive and new shifter are pointless (MMI and S Class' COMAND are better from my brief experience) and dumb.

An additional value that BMW offers, which I believe is now unique, is the 4 years/50k miles of free service for everything except tires. That has to be worth some price premium. However my car ('03 540 with sport package and 6-speed manual transmission) has needed very little service - it even has the original brakes as it is about to hit 50k miles. So maybe BMW builds them to require minimal service for the first 50k miles.
 
I love the car. It is still a joy to drive after almost 4 years. I suspect that many people who pay a premium over a Lexus or Infinite for a BMW are repeat buyers.

Great stuff everyone. The consensus on this segment is surprising, and I agree with pretty much everything said.
 
Calling the e39 the pinnacle of BMW is spot on. Loved that generation of car, and at the time the M5 was simply a phenomenal combination of performance and luxury. That combo isn't quite so unique today, but add in that car's timeless styling (and NO iDRIVE!) and it would still be my first choice in TODAY's market. And I don't just mean the M5 of that generation is all I'd consider buying right now, but the entire model line (depending on my budget and specific needs). Can you say certified?
 
With regard to the engine -- yup, it's just as awe inspiring in the 5. That's largely what got me smiling when I finally found some open room on Mulholland. Handling was relatively good, too...but the combination of body movement (more than I expected) and inconsistent turn in (argh! active steering!) ultimately hurt this "ultimate driving machine" in my eyes.
 
Never felt that way in an e39...

High praise from Karl re: the e39 5-series! In terms of production years, that would be the 1997-2003 models, correct?
 
For those who can't afford (or simply refuse) to spend the $$$ on a new 5-series, or 3-series for that matter, sounds like an '03 5-series might be a great alternative.

If you guys are thinking of indulging in an older 5, that is not certified. Please make sure that it has had its scheduled maintenance. And I don't just mean its oil, but that the expensive routine schedule has been done.
 
I have had many friends that have negligected this in their BMW's and they paid the price. These cars are engineered to a high standard, but part of the draw back is less margin for error in durability.

BMW is getting too high tech for its own godo but in the long run it probably wont hurt sales. THe reason for this is that most BMW buyers could care less about turn in, steering feel, being connected to the road, etc. BMWs are for most people luxury cars first and foremost. This is why there is a huge gap between the automotive media's view of recent models and the public's view. BMWs sales continue to increase in spite of odd styling, high pricing and electronice gizmos that dilute the driving experiences and are largely viewed as uneccessary. Of course a lot of these things are optional and most BMWs dont have them anyway so the average buyer isnt even going to experience active steering or iDrive. As long as a BMWs value as a status symbol means more than its capability as the Ultimate Driving Machine people will buy them regardless of what joy killing electronics BMW adds.

I disagree with you 1487 (shocker). Because the BMW even with the electronic gizmos is still the best sports sedan of the bunch. The ride and handling balance with the 5 is still arguably the best balance. If most people were looking for mere status or luxury they would buy the E350.

I'd say that around here, the 5-series has more status than the E-class, though if you're buying large the S-class is still the only way to go. The BMW brand is simply stronger at the moment.
 
As for active steering, I think it'll become standard fare in a couple of generations, and on every car in the market a few after that. Once they work out the bugs (it's still a little slow to react I think), the only people holding out against it will be those who still hold out against power steering.
 
Kind of how everyone hated Bangle's styling, but that's becoming the industry norm as well.

Actually based on handling stats and some recent comparos (for those who believe in C&D) the M has essentially caught the 5 series. I dont know that its factual to say the 5 series is hands down the best sports sedan in its class. What it boils down to is the M can do everything the 5 can do but do it for thousands less. I dont doubt the E350 and some other models are less sporty than the 5. The M is a purpose built sports sedan and Infiniti did a good job of delivering the same type of ride/handling balance that BMW does.

I like the M35/M45, the styling in my opinion is much better than the 5.

Common ground on the M?
There will be world peace

I agree with 1487: most BMW owners, especially 5 series owners don't care about handling and driving dynamics but simply about status and the fact that the car is fast and luxurious. The choice between E-class and 5-series, for most people, boils down to personal preference.
 
To say that BMW is a stronger brand than Mercedes is debatable, especially when the choice is not something in the 3-series range.
 
The exterior styling of the M35/45 is definitely better than that of the 5-series.

I agree with the others here, the Infiniti M35/M45 has caught the 5-Series in only 1.5 generations. The first gen M45 doesn't really count. With the exception of offering a manual transmission, the M does everything just as good as the 5 and it looks much better inside and out. The 5-Series has lost its way and doesn't feel special at all. On the other hand, the M is exceptional.

Drewsrx, I agree to a point (as far as numbers go) but there is still a couple of things missing in Infiniti's formula that BMW's have always had. Refinement is one but there is still something else thats just lacking with Infiniti.
 
I do give Infinti credit for making some pretty exciting vehicles, and for directly using BMW as their benchmark as its certainly put Infiniti back on the map.

I can't understand what your gripes are with the iDrive. Even my wife that is not tech-savvy, nor my 12 year old niece that I would hardly consider tech savvy thinks it is complicated.
 
In my humble opinion it is a very simple system to use, the problem with most people is that it isn't touch screen- thank God for that.

I cannot understand why there has been so much criticism of the 5 series taillights here without any mention of those on the M. While the Bimmer's may be unattractive, they at least are proportional to the car as a whole, while those on the M look as if they could fit the new generation Tundra.