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Talk Back Tuesday: What Makes a Great Car Great?

What makes a great car great?

That's a topic that's been debated for over a century -- probably from the moment the first car was created. And it would be easy to get caught up in a multitude of features and traits when discussing the topic. But I've come to realize there are basically two overriding characteristics of a great car.

1. Purity: This is sort of like the "Cohesive" aspect of fun-to-drive that I discussed recently. Put simply, a car with purity is utterly and totally dedicated to a singlular mission. Everything about the vehicle is dedicated to that goal, without compromise to secondary concerns. When considering 2008 models there are two cars that instantly jump to mind -- the Lotus Exige S and the Porsche 911 GT3 RS. In theory these cars could be even more pure by having no climate systems or audio systems, but as 2008 models go these vehicles are remarkably pure. The payoff? They are among the most track-ready, street-legal vehicles sold on the U.S. market.

2. Multi-talented: Yes, this seems somewhat contradictory to item number 1 above, but hear me out. A multi-talented car will never be as good in any single area as a car with purity. But it may be nearly has good as two cars with purity, and that's even more impressive in my mind. For example, the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 is not as track ready as the Lotus Exige S or Porsche 911 GT3 RS. Those cars are simply more capable at going around a racetrack because of the purity of their design. However, neither the Lotus nor Porsche makes a realistic daily driver or grand tourer, while the Corvette can tackle those driving situations with ease, providing a comfortable environment that's on par with a pure luxury car.

I can bring math into the discussion to further illustrate my point (and you may never hear me make that statement again...). For instance, the Lotus or Porsche might score 10s on a 1-to-10 scale of track-ready measurment. But they score around 2 or 3 on the daily driver/grand tourer scale, for a total of 13. The Corvette Z06 "only" gets a 8 or 9 on the track-ready scale, but it also scores at least a 7 or 8 as a daily driver/grand tourer, for a conservative total of 16 -- thus eclipsing the Lotus and Porsche on my personal "great car" scale. And yes, you could also "average" the numbers to get a similar effect, but I like the idea of simply adding them together and leaving it at that, because it better represents the greater total package available from a multi-talented automobile. 

The first time I came to appreciate the multi-talented aspect of vehicles was way back in late 1998 when I drove the then-new 1999 Toyota Land Cruiser with a V8 engine. I drove it from Los Angeles to Sedona, Arizona as part of a full-size SUV comparison test. On the way to Sedona it was clear the Land Cruiser was the most refined, luxurious and comfortable SUV compared to the Chevrolet Suburban, Ford Expedition, GMC Denali and Isuzu Trooper. By the time we hit Sedona I knew the Land Cruiser was the best SUV for on-road purposes, but I figured there'd be a price to pay once we left the pavement behind.

I was wrong -- the Land Cruiser simply stomped the other SUVs into submission on the demanding trails in the mountains above Sedona. It was almost surreal. At the time I had only worked for Edmunds a couple months, and my experience with SUVs was limited. But by the end of that trip I was stunned that one vehicle could be so capable in two completely divergent areas. A palatial on-road experience, a rough-and-tumble off-road rally machine, from the same vehicle? After that test my quote about the Land Cruiser became: "If you never go off road, you'll love it. If you always go off road, you'll love it."

That experience raised my standards for what defines a great car (or truck, or SUV). I still appreciate pure vehicles, like a Lotus Exige S or Ariel Atom of Ferrari F40, that do one thing very well. But I relish cars that can do two (or more!) things nearly as well as the "pure breeds." A few more examples of great multi-talented cars, along with how I might describe them to a potential buyer:

1. BMW 3 Series: If you only cruise around on freeways or in stop-and-go traffic and demand luxurious amenities you'll love it. If you only drive on secondary, two-lane roads through twisty canyons and you need confident driving dynamics, you'll love it.

2. Honda Odyssey: If you only carry eight people between school, grocery store and soccer practice, relying on family-friendly features to keep them entertained, you'll love it. If you only drive yourself at highway speeds and around the occasional banked on-ramps and you need solid power and handling, you'll love it.

3. Cadillac CTS: If you're only interested in a roomy, luxurious and stylish sedan with high-tech features for high-speed cruising, you'll love it. If you only want to drive through fast sweepers while experiencing rewarding steering feel, controlled body motions and comfortable ride quality that never beats you up, you'll love it.

4. Toyota RAV4: If you're looking for functional cargo space, occasional seven-passenger toting, decent fuel mileage and long-term reliability, you'll love it. If you need to blow away entry luxury sedans, and even the occasional sport coupe, when the light turns green, you'll love it.

Okay, now you add some.

Posted by Karl Oct 16, 2007 6:00 am

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Categories: BMW | Chevrolet | Honda | Toyota | Talk Back Tuesday


Comments

pflyer - Oct 16, 2007 11:14 am (#16 Total: 35)  

 
 
The new E-Class Diesel.
  
If you love bullet-proof attributes, this is your vehicle.
  
If you want to help save the planet without looking like a world-improver busy body (Prius), this is your vehicle.
  
If you just want attractive, economical transportation, this is your vehicle.
  
The Diesel E-Class (IMHO) trumps all other $50K sedans.
  
And it's not slow, either.

editor_karl - Oct 16, 2007 12:30 pm (#17 Total: 35)  

 
L.A. CA United States of America  
"Karl, wouldn't the Honda S2000 CR edition make it on in the "purity" department?"
 
Yes
 
"I've always believed the Range Rover is the best SUV (reliability problems aside) but it looks like the Lexus/Land Cruiser could give it a run for its money.
Could you organise a comparative road test between the two in the (near) future?"
 
Now that the new LX is out we will definitely need to do a luxury SUV comparison. My personal feelings are that if the Range Rover is better than the Land Cruiser, it's by a pretty slim margin (probably one that most drivers would never be able to discern).
 
However, the margin between these two vehicles in reliability...

sabastian - Oct 16, 2007 1:03 pm (#18 Total: 35)  

 
 
Crowb,
 
Sadly I'm only a wannabe GTI owner at this point, but I'm doing my best to change that. Sounds like you are ready for a new car soon as well (I envy you!). Between the Spec-V and the Si, I would take the Si any day. Every comparison that I have read between the two has favored the Civic. It sounds better too. Just my two cents...
 
Blackadder,
I have not driven the MS3, but I have driven the normal Mazda 3 hatchback, and while it was enjoyable to drive, it lacked the power of the GTI. Furthermore, I am very picky when it comes to interiors, and the Mazda did not pass muster. As for the Civic Si, it's a fantastic car. Especially in sedan form, it offers loads of space, value, and performance. Though it doesn't look as classy to my eyes as the GTI's interior, I love the starfighter-pilot feeling that I get behind the wheel. The amazing soundtrack doesn't hurt either. I would never fault anyone who picked a Civic Si over GTI. For me, however, it has to be the GTI.
As far as reliability goes, I realize that VW has been poor in the past, but I understand that the MKV Golf/Rabbit is much better. Interestingly, it seems that the Civic Si Sedans are having some suspension issues, so who knows...

blackadder5639 - Oct 16, 2007 2:08 pm (#19 Total: 35)  

 
 
Of course, Sabastian, if interior and power are high priorities, the Mazda 3 doesn't compare to the GTI.
I'm not a big interior guy so the interior of the Mazda 3 GT (which was the trim I test-drove) way exceeds my expectations........and its power, while considerably less that the GTI, is still a lot....enough for me to enjoy driving it, especially when combined with its superior handling ability.
All in all, I would probably save the extra cash and choose the Mazda 3 GT.....if I have more cash, the GTI is the obvious choice (despite its lower sportiness). There is litle doubt that the Mazda 3
 
The MS3 GT interior is on the same level as the Mazda 3 GT interior, although the MS3 interior looks cooler because of the red stitching, etc.

blackadder5639 - Oct 16, 2007 2:11 pm (#20 Total: 35)  

 
 
"There is litle doubt that the Mazda 3 "
What I wanted to say is that there is little doubt the Mazda 3 is overall the better value and perhaps the better all-rounded car. But the fact is that the GTI is now a premium car and for these cars "value" is not the main attribute. But, yeah, the GTI is also very well rounded.
 
Karl, this blog is not allowing us to edit out comments. :(

ahightower - Oct 16, 2007 2:26 pm (#21 Total: 35)  

 
Texas  
The Avalanche might qualify as a "great car" based on Avalanche based on Karl's criteria of purity and verstility. Great ride and handling (by large SUV standards), reasonable fuel economy, luxurious interior. I haven't seen a lot of tests with it off-road, but it can certainly tow/haul more than its main competitor, the Ridgeline, which only has V6 and is ugly as sin.

ahightower - Oct 16, 2007 2:28 pm (#22 Total: 35)  

 
Texas  
Please ignore the extra words in that first sentence above... No more drinking and typing for me.

SubyTrojan - Oct 16, 2007 2:38 pm (#23 Total: 35)  

 
Santa Monica, CA, USA  
Kwaku, I reported the bug about being unable to edit comments yesterday. I haven't received a reply yet.
 
I'm surprised hardly anyone--excluding us Subaru owners--has mentioned all-wheel drive here.

crowb - Oct 16, 2007 2:42 pm (#24 Total: 35)  

 
 
Sabastian,
 
I would definitely agree with you. When ranking the Si, GTI, and Spec V, the Spec V certainly belongs in third place. But sometimes price is king. If that guy makes me the deal I think he will, I'd be insane not to take it. Its only because of that deal that I'm even in the new car market at all. More than likely it will flop though.
 
Sorry all, for taking the discussion so far off course.

7driver - Oct 16, 2007 3:03 pm (#25 Total: 35)  

 
 
Suby, believe you me that I have a healthy respect for AWD and I really appreciate the WRX/STi/Evo, but AWD isn't a universal good. Besides the obvious weight and parasitic drag penalty (which can be mitigated out to a certain extent), AWD increases rotational and polar moment of inertia. This is especially true of Audi and Subaru which put the engine ahead of the front axle. And unless you can package the differentials such that it maintains the control arm angles and CG, it'll mess with the roll center as well. Then there's the matter of smoky burnouts...
 
In summary, AWD is often a good thing, but it isn't to everyone's tastes.

carlisimo - Oct 16, 2007 4:21 pm (#26 Total: 35)  

 
United States of America  
I'd like to nominate the Civic. It just does so many things... most of them mundane (reliability, practicality, mileage), but it's introduced so many drivers to fun and the world of car enthusiaismo, and for so long. (Yeah, I'm looking at the historical perspective here.)
 
I know it can be hard to argue that the Civic is cool or fun on car forums. It's not the best at it, certainly. But it's one of those cars that non-enthusiasts buy in droves and has the power to convert some of them. They've usually driven pretty well, had great manual transmissions, suspensions with a lot of potential, and they've usually looked modern. Especially the 1992 generation, I think that one blew just about everything out of the water on looks.
 
The ease of modifying them also made them great, though Honda's tried to make it harder to reduce Acura thefts. Civics before 2001 actually got better the more they were lowered, thanks to their wishbones all around and suspension travel. You can't do that on a Sentra SE-R because strut suspensions are only improved by small drops, nor on a Miata because it just doesn't have the travel, despite its suspension geometry. It didn't take rocket science tools and know-how to get a good engine into a Civic either.
 
Its heydey as an enthusiast car is over, but even now I think it's a great car as an ideal daily driver with a serving of fun on the side.

SubyTrojan - Oct 16, 2007 5:22 pm (#27 Total: 35)  

 
Santa Monica, CA, USA  
7driver, I figured AWD would help a lot in the "multi-talented" category.
 
You are completely correct regarding the matter of smoky burnouts! :o)

savetheland - Oct 16, 2007 5:33 pm (#28 Total: 35)  

 
CA United States of America  
Karl, you didn't tell in what aspect Suburban or Expidition were better than Land Cruiser.

ne1butu2 - Oct 16, 2007 5:44 pm (#29 Total: 35)  

 
 
Volvo S40 T5 - To me, it's more of a GLI these days than a GLI. It's wonderfully purposeful design and nimble size makes it just about perfect.
 
Audi S4 - A world class V8 shoehorned into a compact sedan, although the convertible is my personal ride. Either is nearly a perfect design if you don't really need a back seat.
 
Saturn Aura - I know I know. I've just been very very impressed with this car. I'm still shocked that I thinkthe Aura is a better design than anything out of Japan and that is a more cohesive design than a 3 series or the new C-class. I've driven one and I always do a double take when I see one on the road.
 
Mazda 3 - It replaced the nothing Protege' and immediately became the new benchmark in small sedans.
 
MB's new "clean" diesels - All the mileage of a hybrid without the need to strip-mine to excavate hundreds of pounds of nickle for batteries. Diesels also don't require two drivetrains per car like hybrids do, meaning they're more earth friendly to produce. I'm glad that Mercedes is pioneering advanced diesel technology here.

hondacura4 - Oct 16, 2007 5:46 pm (#30 Total: 35)  

 
 
Blackadder, these engines are MADE to rev and with my experience with DOHC VTEC engines I dont think it would cause significant premature wear. My GSR engine in my 1995 Civic Ex sedan has around 260K on it. The only internal modifications are cams, upgraded valvetrain to handle MORE REVS and Integra Type R to provide more compression. I usually shift around 8500 but it has seen 9000 on few occasions and feels like it still wants to pull.
 
Im a fanatic of compact cars with high revs/great handling so Id have to go with the Si sedan over the GTi. The GTi is easier to drive daily but when its time to play you have to ask the GTi if it wants to play whereas the Civic always asks you (evil grin) if you want to play. In my case Im always willing to play.
 
Interior goes to the GTi as its handsome, "mature", and almost Audi like in excecution. The Civics interior is a bit cheesy at first but once you get settled in you realize its more driver oriented than the GTi. The seats, driving position, steering, suspension, shifter action, red gauges, and pedal placement give this car a totally different character. And the sound of the engine alone is just great as its definately what sets the Si apart. As my father put it after a test drive, "Its almost as if the GTi took a xanax and the Si is on crystal meth!"
 
There are a couple of things I dont like about the Si. The steering on center is a bit dead with almost no feedback but once you turn the wheel it comes to life and its quick. Another thing would be that Honda really doesnt let you pick any extras like the VeeDub allows. Sure there are Honda accessories but the GTi has things like HID's, leather, and a few other things the Si doesnt offer. So with the GTi you can opt for a bit of tailoring while Honda makes you take it or leave it.
 
I could actually own both cars as Id use the GTi to drop off the boys and commute to work. The Si sedan I could use to drop off the boys, take the day off, and hit the twisties!

hondacura4 - Oct 16, 2007 5:52 pm (#31 Total: 35)  

 
 
It was supposed to read "Integra Type R pistons".
 
~LP

blackadder5639 - Oct 16, 2007 6:07 pm (#32 Total: 35)  

 
 
Thanks for the reply, Hondacura! :)
I also agree with your analysis of the GTI and Si....you've also provided more insight than I gained when I drove them.
 
ne1butu2, I think the RS4 has now outdone the S4: I'd reckon they both have the same handling ability and ride comfort but the RS4 is much faster. The only thing in favour of the S4 is price.
 
Also, ne1butu2, the Protege was actually the benchmark in the class before the Mazda 3. I'm talking from my experience of shopping for used cars last year, and from auto journalist reviews.
I test-drove the '02 Lancer (OZ-Rally) and 2000 Toyota Corolla. Neither compared to the '02 Protege in style, interior design or sportiniess. The 2002 Civic was its only competition: it had a higher quality interior but the styling was bland, the engine weak and sportiness lacking. The moment I drove the Protege I realised it was way better than the competition and my only choice.

ne1butu2 - Oct 17, 2007 8:49 pm (#33 Total: 35)  

 
 
blackadder,
 
I've driven RS4 sedans and they whomp the S4 in nearly every measurement. The S4 spanks the turbo 4 and the 6 cyl versions of the A4, which are also leaders in their respective categories. The B6/B7 platform is just very very good. Personally, I find the S4 to be a good balance for everyday use with occasional racing.
 
The Protege 5 was a rockstar. The sedan, not so much. Now with the 3, they can claim the benchmark for both.

rick8365 - Oct 19, 2007 5:59 pm (#34 Total: 35)  

 
 
ne1,
 
I'll second you on the modern clean diesel vs hybrid subject. It seems so obvious to me.....here's hoping.

villahidalgo - Oct 20, 2007 6:47 pm (#35 Total: 35)  

 
 
Toyota 4runner.
Owned it for 30k miles, this SUV can take you almost anywhere comfortably.
 
What Edmunds.com says
A multipurpose midsize SUV that does just about everything well, the 2007 Toyota 4Runner has long been one of our favorites.
"Mulling over our week with the 4Runner, we were struck by how Toyota nearly always hits the nail on the head when revamping one of its vehicles. With the 2003 Toyota 4Runner, the company has done it again by providing a level of ride comfort and on-road handling that rivals most car-based "soft-roaders," while also enhancing its already renowned off-road skills. "




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