Karl on Cars

Hard to put much faith in someone's opinion who can't even spell the name of the car he's complaining about even though it's mentioned repeatedly before. It's Prius, not Pruis.
 
Imagine, a car that has mid size room, mileage that beats sub compacts and (to even my surprise) bulletproof reliablity.
 
Yep, sounds like crap to me.

How many Prius are manufactured in North America?
ZERO!
 
Accord, Camry, F150, Silverado, Corolla, and Civic also sell more than "entire brands" and they are all manufactured in North America.

Ha ha ha ha ha
 
Don't have a Prius but find it extremely amusing to find all these rabid foamers going off on it.
 
Could it be that the Silverado and Hummer owners can't deal with the fact that the 400 hp gas pigs are D E A D?

yes because wasnt/ isn't the silverado the best selling vechical in america? oh no. I was wrong its the f150. heres the forbes list:
 
1. Ford F-150 (588,952 models) -
2. Chevrolet Silverado (526,575)
3. Toyota Camry (398,868)
4. Honda Accord (332,815)
5. Toyota Corolla/Matrix (317,796)
6. Honda Civic (278,764)
7. Chevrolet Impala (270,504)
8. Nissan Altima (239.800)
9. Dodge Ram (214,569)
10. Honda CR-V (184,003)
 
Looks like there are only 2 small cars on that list, and 1 small suv.
 
but yes, you can spin the numbers one way and feel better about the prius. or look at it this way. the f150 sells roughly 50k trucks a month, and the silverado 43k trucks a month, the dodge ram sells only 18k a month. OMG.
 
wait, that means that only 111k trucks are sold every month. Yes trucks are dead!.
 
(only in the mind of the elitest blind green pirus drivers)

Pickup trucks sales are down by alot ,True not dead but down,infact both GM and FORD are cutting back production on their trucks.
 
Ford F-Serie down -12.4% YTD
Nov 2007: 46,568
Nov 2006: 52,727
 
Chevrolet Silverado
down -3.3% YTD
Nov 2007: 38,122
Nov 2006: 44,363
 
Dodge Ram
down -2.0% YTD
Nov 2007: 24,488
Nov 2006: 27,826
 
GMC Sierra
down -2.5% YTD
Nov 2007: 13,840
Nov 2006: 15,382
 
Toyota Tundra
up +57.7% YTD
Nov 2007: 14,988
Nov 2006: 10,469
 
Toyota Tacoma
down -1.9% YTD
Nov 2007: 11,985
Nov 2006: 14,461
 
Chevrolet Colorado
down -18.3% YTD
Nov 2007: 5,428
Nov 2006: 6,526
 
Ford Ranger
down -20.1% YTD
Nov 2007: 4,938
Nov 2006: 5,421
 
Nissan Titan
down -8.8% YTD
Nov 2007: 5,001
Nov 2006: 4,867
 
Nissan Frontier
down -17.1% YTD
Nov 2007: 3,993
Nov 2006: 4,928

Another thing that somewhat boggles me is why is the Prius getting this press? It was the third best selling car in Toyota's lineup. That means there's two other cars in their lineup also outselling entire brands. Yet...the newsworthy story is that it's the Prius thats doing it, and it's not even doing it the best. I imagine the Camry is even outselling more brands than the Prius, and quite honestly, is a better car. I wonder how many other cars in their lineup did this, and if any cars from other companies did this as well.

Lots of single models outsell entire brands.
 
Only one HYBRID outsold 18 brands in November -- ergo the press.

Just to second Karl's comment. It's not just that the Prius is the only hybrid to outsell entire brands, it's what this says about the future of automobile technology, especially when CAFE is considered.
  
A few years ago critics would have bet their life savings that the Prius would never sell 100,000 vehicles. Well, it has, even though it doesn't qualify for any tax credits. Sales would probably be significantly higher if it still qualified for the tax credit.
  
So, why is the Prius so successful compared to other hybrids? Because it has no competition.
  
The Prius is the cheapest, most fuel efficient, cost-effective hybrid you can buy. According to Edmunds, Prius hybrid car costs are recovered faster than any other hybrid - far faster than the Civic hybrid. Thus, after 4.2 years, the average Prius buyer has recovered their hybrid technology costs and is now just laughing at everyone else when filling up at the gas station - now the fuel savings are are pure gravy. If you keep your car for 7 or 8 years, you've save a few thousand dollars in gasoline costs.
 
For people concerned about foreign oil dependency and global warming, that's some pretty persuasive math.

Prius is all image, a car for those who aren't "car nuts" like the rest of us. When it came out it was also the only one that didn't feel cramped and claustrophobic... basically like a penalty box. It had the utility of a hatch, was close in size to the last gen Camry interior-wise and had adequate power over the previous Prius and Honda Insight.
 
Now that there are others out like the Camry hybrid, Civic hybrid and SUV's like the HH, Lexus "h" models , I am surprised to see the current Prius holding strong sales wise. But the technology is still somewhat new and as others have pointed out, the odd styling of the Prius is more of an image statement than a car that looks exactly like the non-hybrid. So I guess I can understand its continued popularity. But Toyota better step up on the next generation if the car is to maintain its popularity. Other traditional Toyota cars with hybrid powertrains offer similar fuel economy and diesels are going to be knocking on the little Toyotas door here pretty soon so the next Prius has to continue to be a way above others in fuel economy.
 
On a side note, what I find the most humorous is when the Prius came out and the hybrid movement was in its infancy, the technology was written off as a "fad", or a stopgap towards hydrogen/diesel/biofuel. Toyota haters trashed the car up and down and proclaimed it (and it's owners were idiots, paying premiums for an image and supporting this so called "fad")
 
But now that GM and others are offering their own models, hybrids are cool.
 
Hypocrits.

"A very high percentage. In fact, I had a co-worker just inform me that, in the state of California, it is not uncommon for the Prius to outsell all of GM added together."
 
That is extremely hard to believe, even for CA. Got any numbers behind that?
 
"On a side note, what I find the most humorous is when the Prius came out and the hybrid movement was in its infancy, the technology was written off as a "fad", or a stopgap towards hydrogen/diesel/biofuel. Toyota haters trashed the car up and down and proclaimed it (and it's owners were idiots, paying premiums for an image and supporting this so called "fad")
  
But now that GM and others are offering their own models, hybrids are cool.
  
Hypocrits."
 
there is nothing I love more than people who make up quotes and then criticize them and call the authors of those quotes hyprocrites. Who said all this stuff? Anyone here? Anyone we know? Who are you talking about? The GM hybrids are not cool. Gm knows it has to make them to improve its image and show its working on fuel efficiency. I wouldnt buy a Prius, or a Tahoe hybrid or an Aura Greenline. Period. The Prius has gotten nonstop positive press coverage since it came out. It was MTCOTY in 2005 or whatever year it came out. The car has been wholeheartedly embraced by the press and yet you are claiming the car has been under attack because so many people hate Toyota and its technological prowess. You are in a fantasyland. Toyota is the most loved and respected automaker in the US. PEriod. CR and others have noted that hybrids often dont make financial sense on the gas savings alone and they dont. That is a fact, not anti Toyota slander intended to insult Prius owners. We understand that you have to turn everything into an anti GM or anti-GM fan issue but give us a break.
 
toyota4life,
 
Pickup sales are very closely tied to construction and the economy. I'm not sure that the numbers you are showing "prove" that trucks are on their way out due to high gas prices. When housing slows down and the economy slows down pickups are going to be hit hard. On top of that the F150 and Ram are dated and due for redesigns next year. I would expect F150 numbers to continue to drop until the 2009 comes out. The bottom line is that the whole "movement" away from large vehicles to Fit sized vehicles and hybrids has been greatly exaggerated. To date NO hybrid other than the Prius has made a dent in the sales charts. There have to be at least 20 hybrids on the market today and the Prius likely outsells about 10 of them combined.

"1487 wrote , I dont give Toyota credit for releasing a ridiculously low sales projection that was likely to be shattered from day one.........Like GM 500 projection sales for the malibu first month?"
 
dont be ridiculous. a) thats not a yearly sales prediction b) all they said was they expected 500 to be sold in november which could be true if 2007s are on the lot with huge discounts available c) I agree with Chavis that you should copy texts from other sites and post it like its your own. d) as far as I know GM rarely publically announces sales targets for the year. I've noticed Toyota and Honda seem to do this a lot. I remember Acura claimed they only expected to sell 15k TSX's a year and naturally it beat that lowball estimate easily. Toyota also claimed they wanted to sell 200k Tundras and then decided they would rather offer thousands in incentives than miss that target. Doesnt that sound a lot like something GM would do? Toyota is supposed to be disciplined and align production with demand.
 
opfreak:
 
I thought the Fit was the best selling car in America. Or maybe the Versa. I want a recount.

The Fit? That's in Japan... here the best selling cars have always been midsized. In Canada they're usually compacts (Corolla/Civic), and in Japan they've recently been smaller cars (Fit or Cube).

"here the best selling cars have always been midsized. "
 
Recently you are correct carlisimo. But that wasn't the case in the early to mid 1980's. The best selling car for years was the Ford Escort and then the Chevy Cavalier. It wasn't until the Ford Taurus that the midsize domination began.

"In Canada they're usually compacts (Corolla/Civic)"
 
Actually in Canada, it near tie for 1st place between the Civic and the Mazda3. The Caravan was 3rd and I don't remember where the Corolla was.
 
If they can get enough of them, the Fit will be up there too in the 2007 number. One of my friends bought one and had to wait 6 weeks to get one with a 5 speed.

Damn, so much for that post then.
 
Great to hear about Mazda's success up there!

I just want to add a bit on the Apple comparison.
 
There is no product that succeeds based on image alone, if it did not have something that just worked right or is unique.
 
The Prius does that. It is not an enthusiast's car, but my guess is, just like an ultra-reliable 90s Civic, it has an almost guaranteed experience to come with it, whether it's reliability, or modern interior styling and functionality.
 
Apple isn't winning based on mediocre products. Yes I totally agree there are better featured MP3 players than the iPod and better featured laptops than the Macbooks. But none come with the execution that Apple has and the style. Apple's designers (in the eyes of a designer) are geniuses in how they get the marketting and product done. It just WORKS. The simple elegant ad style for Apple products (in general, though some ads are more visual effects oriented), the simple design of their websites (which, as a web designer, I absolutely bow down to for how well it's executed) and the design of their products is made so it has this inviting feel to it.
 
As for why recent models have been so "cool"? Well obviously the design and execution is there, but it's the Intel chip transition that made that happen. Heck, I would have never bought an Apple computer prior to this transition. Now I'm a very happy Macbook Pro owner and I run Windows MOST of the time on it with OSX as the backbone. It's this parallel functionality that has made so many people jump boats.
And you know what, the products, while not as featured, have well executed unique features.
 
The iPod click wheel comes to mind, but the Macbook Pro's are also standouts against PC laptops. From the MagSafe adapter (a true stroke of genius, it saved my laptop so many times!), to the backlit keyboard (that doesn't have horrible uneven lighting), to the two-finger function touchpad (again, just genius, scrolling has never been so much fun).
 
As a multimedia student and business owner, I see design and execution as critical to a product's success and Apple's recent success is thoroughly deserved because the product really does its job right.
Macs aren't just about coolness, now they're also about cross-compatibility. The coolness factor is just a side boon, really.
I'm still largely a PC user though and love Windows (gasp!), but I also hold a great degree of respect for OS X's innovations and the whole Mac experience.
 
Which brings me back to the Prius discussion. Design a product that works right and doesn't give headaches and people will love it. That includes unique styling, but you still need to EXECUTE it right too.

+1 to vic_pe regarding apple. I am in a similar (though cheaper :-) boat.

+2 -- His description of how he uses a Macbook Pro (primarily as a PC, but one that doesn't crash all the time and has an elegant, Apple design) is the exact boat I'm in. And I'm sure we've all seen the tests that prove the best PC on the market...is an APPLE (in terms of processor benchmarks tests, etc.). Funny

Been using macs for 16 years. While the Prius/Mac comparo makes some sense I see Toyota in general as more of like Microsoft.

I didn't compare nor would imply Toyota is like Apple. I don't see many manus as a whole to look like tech corporations.
 
About the only one I can perhaps occasionally think of it like Apple in terms of quirkyness, is VW.
I always get a chuckle when I visit their website and read "Certified pre-Loved". Haha, talk about a funny play on CPO!
 
@ Karl: It still crashes like a PC when running Windows or non-Apple-written applications, haha... :P