Karl on Cars

chevy598
 
For years my wife and I drove around in a 4 cyl Skyhawk because that's what we could afford. You do what you have to do.
 
However Fit's are not expensive and neither are Grand Cherokees if you buy a used one.
 
As I said most families I know have more then one car, the lowerr income one just drive used ones.

I just read the fuel hit $ 4.00 in LA and NY? True or false?
 
Okay, going back to your question Karl, the alarm was set off and car manufacturers are scrambling with new technology and gas saving methods. Ethanol and Diesel are just options right now and they are not cheap nor economic. The only fast alternative I see for many car manufacturers is to start looking at their overseas catalog and bring some of their economy cars. Just like Europe and Asia you'll have the high power cars for those than can afford the gasoline and the rest will scale down in power size and economy.
 
If all goes out of hand... well... "lets invest on Amish Motor Company".

I think that the notion that everyone who downgrades to a four cylinder or buys a hybrid has been done so because Al Gore persuaded them into it, or of environmental concerns, is untrue.
 
Most people I know who have bought Prius's and other Hybrids or who have downgraded to smaller cars, have done so, not to save the planet, or because of environmental concerns, they never mention saving the Earth or Al Gore. They buy them because of the rising cost of gas, with $4 gas around the corner, who wants a Challenger or a Sequoia for the commute?
 
I love performance cars, I have one, and for the forseeable future I'm going to keep pumping gas into it. I would not agree with Karl's question "Have we become a country of performance-addicted drivers that simultaneously insist we can and should save the planet?" For me the question should be "Have we become a country of performance-addicted drivers that simultaneously insist we can and should have more efficient vehicles?"

ddastardly
 
While I agree with you. Sales of hybrids outside the prius disagree with both of us. That might change now with 4 dollar gas.
 
and while poor people have fewer cars (about .6 per household for those under the poverty line).
 
america in general has about 2.4 cars a household

I bought a beater sunfire for $2,500 three years ago, and i'm still not to the point of break even on it. For most people it doesn't make sense to have an extra economy car to save gasoline. When you add car price, insurance, and maintinence it ends up costing more. It saves gas but costs more money. Most people don't make enough money to worry about saving the earth.
 
Al Gore and his fellow politicians play a big role in force feeding hybrids to consumers. Lets not forget tax deductions, and getting to use car pool lanes as other reasons to buy hybrids. Our state and federal government add incentives to get people switched to hybrids.

Some of these so called green cars are actually quite bad for the planet on an overall basis (energy used to make them, emissions, how the fuel used is made, and then disposal of the car) than simply driving your mid-sized family car for a couple of more years. Al Gore et al (really most of the "liberal" elite) flying around in their private jets are simply people put for their own vanity, and are trying to keep themselves in the news. The best thing for the environment is really doing a bunch of little things first; you can change out the light bulbs in you house for hyper-efficient ones, weather strip your windows in the winter, unplug unused electrical devices, drive less, don't use plastic bags, recycle all you can, and look to buy products/food locally. This cuts your carbon footprint by quite a bit, and really will save you lots of money. I actually had a power bill of $18.09 last month, and I actually had to run the heat pump a few times. Let's not get into why we actually have oil prices so high. Yes, worldwide demand is up and there is trouble in oil producing nations (always has been actually), but these so-called economist don't take into account the relative value of the dollar. In real terms in more stable currencies (Pound, Euro, Yen, CH Franc, and even the Yaun) oil prices are no higher now than they were when the dollar was worth more than the Euro. The way to strengthen the dollar is to really keep them here, in America. The US manufactured cars (hey it is that buy local idea again) built by american owned manufactures are what we ought to be excited about, and we finally car be! The fact that the big news in New York is a supercar and a really impressive muscle car is immaterial, because we know that GM is doing more hybrids (in a way that produces less total environmental damage than toyota by the way), ford makes one (wow they are in troubles), and Chrysler has the technology to cut fuel consumption (they have full-sized suv hybrids and some diesel suvs). The fact that Chrysler can make a decent car, means that they will be able to apply their already existing technology to cars that will actually be purchased. Of course you have to look out for "american" cars made in mexico, which has the second worst overall environmental laws in the Western Hemisphere (the failed state of Haiti may or may not have any). The factories, and then transport of those cars negates more environmental advantages. I of course drive a franco-japanese crossover to help save the planet, but I only drive 5126 miles last year (most long distance or to get a keg).

"the fact that Chrysler can make a decent car".... I hadn't laughed that hard all day. And what exactly is a Franco-Japanese crossover? A nissan murano?
 
A good argument can be made that people who buy American cars, which on a corporate average are less fuel efficient than a Japanese car, end up sending all that money they didn't want to give to Japan over to Venezuala, or Saudi Arabia, or worse. Buying domestic won't save our country... producing more desirable products for export is the only viable option.
 
But yes, I agree that buying CFL lightbulbs, insulating your house and combining trips save more energy than a hybrid ever will. And I agree with Karl, that there are forces pulling in opposite directions in the automotive world. But that could actually create a few nitches, and keep every car from becoming a camry/accord/altima/malibu/fusion clone. Maybe for my next car I can get something besides a 2.4I4 or 3.5V6?

"buying CFL lightbulbs" - people love this one but it only saves 2-3 bucks a month. If you see a breakdown on the average electric bill, lighting only amounts to a few dollars. I changed all the commonly used bulbs in my house to CFL and noticed no difference in the bill.
 
"insulating your house " .....That helped some, I calculated I save about $10 per month in the winter. More effective if you live in a really cold climate.
  
 
"and combining trips" .....That one can really boost your savings as lots of short trips kill your mileage.
 
"end up sending all that money they didn't want to give to Japan over to Venezuala, or Saudi Arabia, or worse" .... The largest exporter of oil to the US is Canada, are we worse?

"I think that the notion that everyone who downgrades to a four cylinder or buys a hybrid has been done so because Al Gore persuaded them into it, or of environmental concerns, is untrue...."
 
Exactly! I traded in a 99 Concorde for an 07 Civic last year. And I didn't do it to "save the planet". I did it because I didn't need a large car, wanted something to park more easily in the city, and wanted to save $$ on gas money. If it helps the planet, great. If not, it still helps me.

bepperb
 
"A good argument can be made that people who buy American cars, which on a corporate average are less fuel efficient than a Japanese car, end up sending all that money they didn't want to give to Japan over to Venezuala, or Saudi Arabia, or worse. Buying domestic won't save our country... producing more desirable products for export is the only viable option. "
 
That corporate average thing is sooo loaded. And so waited agianst american car manufacrtures.
 
Honda sells how many full size pick ups? what about nissian? and Mazda, Toyota Is finally starting to sell some trucks.
 
If ford/gm/dodge... could somehow strip the trucks from their average, it was shot up as well.

What's so bad about importing boat loads of oil from Canada and Mexico?
Those are two of our best allies. Americas electrical grid is tied right into Canada. Doesn't California get a good chunk of their electricity from power plants just south of the border?
What's next, are we going to be afraid of getting addicted to cheap Mexican electricity.

"That corporate average thing is sooo loaded. And so waited agianst american car manufacrtures. "
  
It goes beyond that. The public is directed to look for specific kinds of vehicles from different countries.
  
A couple of days ago, I was watching a show on a local media channel. They were talking about different kinds of vehicles available. As it happens, the Auto Show is on right now and they took many examples from it. Every time they spoke of fuel efficient cars, they showed a Japanese car, ignoring the fuel efficient American cars. Every time they spoke of a gas hog, they showed a large American car, ignoring the gas hogs produced by Japanese manufacturers.
  
American manufacturers have been making fuel efficient vehicles for decades. People who want fuel efficient vehicles tend to look at imports. It seems ridiculous to me.

Hey Brn, what did you expect - several generations of Americans were educated by public school system and mainstream media to consider America as the source of all evil in the world. I remember hatred of America was very intense during Vietnam War and it continues since then. And hatred of war machine, greedy big US corporations and rich people originates from the same era. But Japanese big corporation are nice and fuzzy responsible citizens because Japan never invaded foreign country. Well sort of, not lately. They are victims in fact.

savetheland
 
You have a good point there but in all fairness, do you even know how many countries you have troops in right now? Japan hasn't done anything bad in over 60 years.
 
For years Japan made little cars that were reliable, fun to drive and got great mileage. The US... well... didn't.
 
I agree that has changed for the most part but perceptions are hard to change.

Firstwagon, when USA invades other countries it does service to humanity - it brings democracy, respect for human rights and prosperity. The mission of spreading western values over the world started with England and America continues this tradition. Mission of US in the world is not being dumping ground for impoerted goods – it is to make all countries in the world free and prosperous and establish global freedom.
 
German and Japan are prosperous and make great cars only because USA invaded them and established political and economic system that allows them to do that. At it’s own peril.
 
Hatred of one's own country is not a good thing esp if this country is USA.

Eh, I'm personally sick of seeing autoshows with half the releases being these new Al Gore cars. Worst part it is its not some cool looking concept, its just an existing vehicle with a hybrid drivetrain or whatever.

"Hey Brn, what did you expect - several generations of Americans were educated by public school system and mainstream media to consider America as the source of all evil in the world. I remember hatred of America was very intense during Vietnam War and it continues since then."
 
Funny. I went to public grade school and junior high in the 1980s, and I remember learning how we were saving the world from communism, and then seeing it come to fruition with the fall of the Berlin wall.
 
Sorry -- but sometimes a Civic or a Mazda 3 is just better than a Cobalt or a Focus. And let's not forget that Dodge hasn't had a decent small car since the first-generation Neon. Now go up a size and I'd argue the Fusion and new Malibu are contenders (if not better) than the Accord and Camry. But that's not the vehicle class we were talking about.

As long as there's desire to smoke the rear tires and drift with abandon, RWD V8's will be around, no matter what fuel costs.
 
But Perhaps Efficiency's a better option than two cars?
I find it ironic that a Subaru Forester w/ Turbo cranks out 0-60 times as good as most of these V8'ed RWD'ers, but, when driven with light foot, is also a practical grocery and people mover.

"Mission of US in the world ...– it is to make all countries in the world free and prosperous and establish global freedom. "
 
Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. I have read the full mission statement of the United States (the Constitution) and nowhere is that listed as the mission of the U.S. The mission of the U.S., as laid out in the Constitution is:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
 
I see nothing in the entire constitution, about bringing/forcing freedom and prosperity on other nations.
Our founding fathers, (Thomas Paine, Washington, Jefferson, John Adams, etc) warned of "entangling alliances".
 
Interaction - yes
Intervention - no
 
We (the U.S.) have troops in approx. 130 countries.

Firstwagon,
 
CFL cost savings depends highly on the local electrical rates and the cost of the bulbs. I've had a great CFL experience - I switched my entire house over to compact fluorescents back in 2001. Of the original bulbs I purchased, only one had burned out before I switched to newer bulbs with better color rendition in 2004. (The one that burned out was in a garage door opener light - I don't think it liked the variable voltage and vibration associated with the motor starting up.) The only burned out bulb I've had since 2004 has been in a bathroom, where it was exposed to high humidity and vibration from the exhaust fan. In my area (Northern California) where there are tiered electric rates (it's frighteningly easy to pay more than $0.30/kwh) and rebates on compact fluorescent bulbs ($4 for 10 at Costco, thanks to a utility rebate) the bulbs pay for themselves in power savings in less than a month.