Edmunds CarPool
Car Buying Advice
December 17, 2009
Our mystery car shopping experiment came to an end yesterday when we took posession of our new 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid.
Here's the wrap up. We got the fully loaded car for $100 under invoice which is was $29,796.01 (don't forget that penny!). We could have gotten the same car in black at $200 under invoice but we wanted the ice metallic blue because it photographs better.
One thing we learned is that pricing on this car is all over the place. We had dealers who wanted to sell us the car at $500 under sticker price. We negotiated in person and only got them down to about $500 over invoice. The lowest prices came from internet sales managers.
We called a large Ford dealer and told the internet manager that we had been offered the car for $100 below invoice. We said we wanted the light blue and said we had seen five of them on their lot. What was their best price? They emailed that they would sell the car to us for 1% over invoice plus a deal prep fee of about $100. This came out to about $400 over invoice.
At first they wouldn't budge from this $400 over price, but the next day the salesman (I had been turned over to sales by the internet manager) said he would accept our offer. They also delivered the car to our offices which meant we didn't have to go through the ordeal of the finance and insurance office.
So, once you test drive the car, there's no reason to stay and make a deal at the car lot. Go home and work the internet and the phones for the best price.
Or am I missing something?
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- Philip Reed December 17, 2009, 1:00 PM
- Categories:
- Car Buying Adventures, Car Buying Advice
December 15, 2009
A "turnover house" is a dealership where, if the first salesman is not making headway with you, then you are turned over to another car salesman. We found a dealership where they are using this technique on the internet.
We began by talking with the internet manager but once the price was mentioned, we were turned over to a sales person. This is a bit annoying because you already have a rapport and relationship with the first person, and then you have to start over with a salesman. The nice thing about the internet route is that they aren't conventional sales people who are in love with the ability to sell.
In other news, we took the weekend off from car buying and picked up the pieces again on Monday. We called all the local dealers back and told them we wanted to close the deal by Wednesday. This prompted a new flurry of price quotes. We finally settled on the Ice Metallic Blue because it will photograph better than the black or dark green. Now we are involved in the final stages of negotiating our best deal. By tomorrow, hopefully, we'll have a final deal and a firm price.
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- Philip Reed December 15, 2009, 10:22 AM
- Categories:
- Car Buying Adventures, Car Buying Advice, Fuel Efficiency
December 11, 2009
A car salesman shows his buddies his newest move to help his golf swing.
Our plan was to pose as average car buyers and negotiate in person for our long term 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid. We located a car in the color and options we wanted on a car lot in the San Fernando Valley and headed for the dealership. If they gave us a good price we really would buy the car. If they started playing games, we would back out and use the internet car buying route. After all, we had already been offered the car at $100 below invoice by an internet manager from another dealership. But we wanted to test the car buying waters to see if things have improved.
We drove onto the lot and were immediately approached by a low-key young guy who ended every sentence with "you know what I'm saying?" He found our car and left to the get the keys. "Oh oh," I told my co-worker Ron Montoya, who accompanied me. "They have a rip-off sticker." This is a separate sticker listing things installed by the dealer which are usually wildly overpriced. In this case the rip-off sticker said our car had the interior protection package for $195 and an anti-theft plan for another $395 (more information on these below).
Our salesman returned with the keys and let us take a test drive -- no restrictions, no high pressure sales pitch other than, "it gets great gas mileage, know what I'm saying?" So far so good. We ended the test drive and our salesman said something like, "So what do you want to do?"
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- Philip Reed December 11, 2009, 12:14 AM
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- Car Buying Adventures, Car Buying Advice
December 10, 2009
Getting a quote online is a valuable tool that many car buyers aren't aware of. It saves time, and allows you to easily compare various dealers' prices. Some shoppers may be hesitant to submit an online quote for fear that they'll be harassed by endless phone calls from car salesmen. But managed correctly, the online quote can put you way ahead of the game. Here are a few tips to manage an online quote.
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- Ron Montoya December 10, 2009, 10:44 AM
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- Car Buying Advice, Ford
September 15, 2009
General Motors introduced its latest sales incentive/ad campaign yesterday -- a 60-day money-back guarantee with a "May the Best Car Win" attitude.
If you saw the new commercial about this program (in heavy rotation during the NFL season kick-off on Sunday) you saw (and heard) a plain-talking GM Chairman, Ed Whitacre, talking about how "Before I started this job, I admit, I had some doubts." But Mr. Whitacre likes what he found at GM, and he thinks "Car for car, when compared to the competition, we win."
There are two key elements to this latest ad campaign:
1. Are GM's cars really as good or better than the competition?
2. Can GM convince a substantial amount of potential customers its cars are as good or better than the competition?
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- Karl Brauer September 15, 2009, 3:00 AM
- Categories:
- Buick, Cadillac, Car Buying Advice, Chevrolet, GMC, Talk Back Tuesday
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- GM 60-Day Guarantee May the Best Car Win
August 4, 2009
I have a confession to make: I officially hate the Smart car.
I don't use that word lightly, and in today's world it takes a special kind of car to earn the "H" word from me, as almost every car is at least "fine" and the majority of them are "good" or better.
Maybe that's why I hate the Smart car so much. It's not even mediocre.
I drove home the Brabus version of a Smart convertible last week, and before I was 5 miles into my 50-mile (each way) commute I was annoyed at myself for picking the vehicle to take home. See, when you have a 5- or 10- or even 50-mile round-trip commute you can put up with a pretty rotten vehicle. But when I pick a car to take home I've committed to at least a 100-mile journey before taking a single side trip or wrong turn. That's a long distance over which to experience a bad car.
And make no mistake, these are just terrible cars. Do you want to talk ride quality? Do you want to talk seating position and ergonomics? Do you want to talk power? Do you want to talk stability? And let's please not talk about the transmission.
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- Karl Brauer August 4, 2009, 6:00 AM
- Categories:
- Car Buying Advice, Smart Car, Talk Back Tuesday
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- Hate Smart Car
July 28, 2009
All indications suggest quite a buzz around the government's just-launched Cash for Clunkers program. The program, also known as the Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS), is designed to increase new car sales while getting "gas guzzlers" off the road for cleaner air, reduced oil consumption and World Peace.
Okay, maybe I added that last item myself.
But the program, if you ask certain politicians, is certainly being hailed as the savior of all that's right in the automotive world. And one that's simultaneously reducing all that's wrong.
However, being the cynical/logical/critically analytical person that I am, I'm going to have to call P.C. Shenanigans on Cash for Clunkers, as I did in a CBS Evening News story from last Friday (shown above). I'm also going to describe how this program could/should have worked if the wise, well-grounded people ran the world.
That may sound like a back-handed insult directed at politicians, so let me be crystal clear on this point: most government representatives are so painfully out-of-touch with the real world their legislative efforts create more problems then they solve (and there goes any mystery on my stance regarding national health care...).
The latest example of this long tradition includes Cash for Clunkers. What follows is a list of the program's problems and (more importantly) how they could have been avoided:
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- Karl Brauer July 28, 2009, 6:00 AM
- Categories:
- Automotive News, Car Buying Advice, Fuel Efficiency, Talk Back Tuesday
- Technorati Tags:
- Cash For Clunkers, New Car Sales
June 9, 2009
Do you qualify for the proposed "Cash for Clunkers" bill being considered in Washington? I guess technically none of us know, because the bill isn't finalized yet. However, there's enough similarity between the two versions (House and Senate) under discussion to be pretty confident about a few aspects of the bill:
- It will offer no more than $4,500 to new car buyers
- It will require the trade-in vehicle to be crushed
- It will require the new vehicle to get better fuel mileage than the trade-in vehicle
That last point, regarding fuel mileage, is the proposed bill's most nebulous aspect in terms of how the final version will work. In terms of how effective this bill will be it's also the least important, so let's ignore it for now. Instead, let's focus on how the first two points will essentially make this bill useless to almost every new car buyer.
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- Karl Brauer June 9, 2009, 6:00 AM
- Categories:
- Car Buying Advice, Fuel Efficiency, Talk Back Tuesday
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- Cash For Clunkers Bill
May 19, 2009
That seems to be the question on everyone's mind these days. With Chrysler filing for bankruptcy a few weeks ago, and with last week's announcement of 789 dealership closures, it seems anyone can walk into a Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep showroom and get a new car for 50% off the MSRP.
Or maybe not...
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- Karl Brauer May 19, 2009, 6:00 AM
- Categories:
- Car Buying Advice, Domestic Manufacturers Problems/Challenges, Muscle Car, Talk Back Tuesday
- Technorati Tags:
- Dodge Challenger Chrysler Dealerships Bankruptcy
March 3, 2009
As you read this the latest new car sales figures are rolling in from manufacturers, and the news isn't particularly bright. Car sales ticked up for the month of February compared to January, but in terms of the typical increase between these two months (usually around 15 percent more cars are sold in a given February than the preceeding Janaury) the figures fall well short of expectations.
Translation: New car sales remain in the tank.
Does this mean people have stopped buying cars altogether? Nope, they've just decided to chase maximum value for their car-buying dollar.
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- Karl Brauer March 3, 2009, 6:00 AM
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- Automotive News, Car Buying Advice, Talk Back Tuesday
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- Used Car Sales New Value
December 2, 2008
There are no more "bad cars" on the market. Sure, there are clearly "better" or "worse" cars in any given segment, but even the "worst" new 2009 cars aren't truly "bad" (yes, that holds true for the Dodge Caliber too...barely).
So, if there are no more bad cars, how do you decide which one to buy? Put pictures of new vehicles on a wall and grab some darts?
Actually, if you simply wanted to avoid a bad car that would work. But if you're looking to find the best car for you, that's where a site like Edmunds comes in. We get to filter out and identify the "better" cars from the simply mediocre models, and one of the many areas we analyze is on-board vehicle electronics.
It is my sincere belief that only two areas remain to truly differentiate modern cars from one another. One is exterior styling, the other is ergonomics/features. Basically, if a car looks good on the outside and has the features you want on the inside, you'll buy it. That first area is pretty tough to define, as vehicle styling remains a highly personal judgment.
But the second area is one we're happy to tackle in terms of testing and evaluation, and as such we've just launched our new Car Audio and Electronics Center.
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- Karl Brauer December 2, 2008, 6:00 AM
- Categories:
- Car Audio and Technology, Car Buying Advice, Talk Back Tuesday
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- Car Audio & Electronics
August 20, 2008
(note: late blogging as a result of technical difficulties that prevented my normal blog schedule)
Today begins a new round of "Employee Pricing" at GM, an incentive program not used by The General since 2005.
As the "sell-by" date on 2008 models rapidly approaches every manufacturer is forced to get the old metal out before the new (2009) metal arrives. Except this time around even some 2009 models are on the "employee price" list as well, including the Cobalt, HHR, Vibe, G5 and CTS.
I just drove our long-term CTS last night for the first time in several weeks. The idea of getting a brand new, 2009 model at employee pricing seems like a pretty good deal to me.
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- Karl Brauer August 20, 2008, 12:00 PM
- Categories:
- Automotive News, Car Buying Advice, Domestic Manufacturers Problems/Challenges
- Technorati Tags:
- Cadillac CTS, GM Employee Pricing Incentive
August 7, 2008
In the summer of 2000 Edmunds.com produced the pioneering consumer advice piece called Confessions of a Car Salesman
. By sending an editor, undercover, into the netherworld of car sales he was able to report on the various and sundry practices and procedures utilized to "get you into this car today."
Confessions of a Car Salesman has been an unqualified success, and eight years later it continues to inform and entertain car buyers who want to avoid the sales games and simply get a fair price on their next vehicle purchase.
But while we've helped consumers learn about the games played by car salesmen, what about the tricks that happen after you've agreed on a price and are ready to make a deal? For this I'm proud to present our next great contribution to consumer car-buying awareness, Confessions of an Auto Finance Manager.
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- Karl Brauer August 7, 2008, 6:00 AM
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- Car Buying Advice
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- Confessions of an Auto Finance Manager; Car Buying Advice
July 31, 2008
Full disclosure - I don't like leasing. Never have.
For starters, I don't like the term, which is just a marketing-friendly word for "renting." Can you imagine someone bragging about the "sweet, three-year car rental commitment" they just signed up for? But that's exactly what every three-year lease is.
And I really don't like the financial shell game it represents. Rather than spending the money it takes to own a vehicle, leasing hides fiscal irresponsibility in the promise of "low monthly payments." Payments, in fact, that almost always get people into cars they couldn't (or shouldn't) otherwise afford (another sign of poor fiscal responsibility).
Here's another way to look at it: What's the most financially responsible way to pay for your personal transportation? Buy a slightly used car (after someone else takes the bulk of the depreciation hit), drive it until the wheels fall off, and repeat.
What's the least financially responsible way to pay for your personal transportation? Buy a new car every three years, and repeatedly pay for the bulk of its depreciation. Actually, that's the second least responsible method. The most irresponsible method would be to rent a new car every three years and never have an ownership stake in the vehicle.
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- Karl Brauer July 31, 2008, 6:00 AM
- Categories:
- Automotive News, Car Buying Advice
- Technorati Tags:
- Car Leasing, Chrysler
