Long-Term Road Tests

Consumeraffairs....Like other manufacturers, GM is often reluctant to publicly admit problems. Instead, it describes such things as banging engines in brand-new trucks as "perfectly normal," while secretly buying back vehicles from consumers who are assertive to retain a lawyer. It's been playing this little game lately with its full-sized pickups and SUVs.
................ By Joe Benton
ConsumerAffairs.Com
 
December 30, 2007
 Expedition burns in Plant City, Fla.
  
'Tis the season for Ford fires, though skeptics might say it's been open season on Ford owners for years.
 
In the latest incident reported to ConsumerAffairs.com, a Beaverdam, Virginia home erupted into flames a week before Christmas following a fire that began in the garage attached to the house.
 
Two family cats perished in the fire and a third was badly burned and is still recovering at an animal hospital. A child was injured by the smoke that filled the house and most of the home's contents were burned and the structure was destroyed.
 
Fortunately, Janet, the homeowner, was awakened at 1 a.m. by the smell of smoke.
 
The cause of the fire? Janet says it was the 2002 Mazda Tribute that was parked in the garage.
 
The Tribute was recalled in May 2007 because of a faulty ABS system. The ABS “module may overheat resulting in burning odor, smoke or fire,” according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) recall notice.
 
The Tribute is similar to the Ford Escape. Both small SUVs went on sale in 2001 and share many parts in common. The main difference between the Tribute and the Ford Escape is that the Tribute's suspension is tuned for a firmer ride than the Escape.
 
11 million
Flaming Fords
 • Ford Fires Kill Pets and Spread Despair as Year Ends
• Ford Lacks Parts for Fire Recall Repair
• New F150 Erupts in Flames as Ford Truck Fires Rage On
• Red Hot Texas Car-B-Que
• Kerry Vows Action to Get Flaming Fords Off the Road
• Flaming Ford Scandal Disgraces Ford, Feds
• Ford Tries Again to Fix Fire Problem with Massive Recall
• One Ford the Recall Missed
• Ford Stops Sales of Big Super Duty, Recalls 2008 Trucks
• Ford Recalls 155,000 More Trucks to Fix Fire Hazard
• Feds Probe Fires in Ford Escape, Mazda Tribute
• Feds Wind Up Ford Engine Fire Probe with Massive Recall
• Ford Truck Fires Mount as Recall Rolls Slowly
• Ford Trucks Burn As Recall Fiddles
• Ford Truck Fire Fix Delayed by Parts Shortage
• Ford Recalls 4 Million Trucks to Fix Fire Risk
• Nader Demands NHTSA Warn Ford Truck Owners
• Wrongful Death Suit Charges House Fire Started in F-150
• Feds Look Deeper for Ford Fire Causes
• Recall Leaves Many Questions Unanswered
• Houston Lawyers Sue Ford
• Ford Recalls Some Fire-Prone Models
• Feds Probe Ford F-150 Engine Fires
• Ford Recall Was Biggest Ever
---
 
  
Ford has now recalled almost 11 million cars and trucks since 2005 because of a clear danger that the vehicles could erupt in flames without warning.
 
But as the piecework recalls trickle out from NHTSA, Fords keep burning, sometimes destroying homes like Janet’s.
 
When consumers contact Ford, the company denies any responsibility and tells its customers to call their insurance company.
 
Federal regulators at NHTSA have repeatedly closed the books on Ford fires, declaring their mission accomplished.
 
That's not much comfort to Janet, who lost her home and most of its contents.
 
"The firemen got a few things out but we're not sure how much can be salvaged. We had 3 cats. One escaped but is burned and still at the vets’. The other 2 perished in the fire. We lost the Mazda and our second car suffered paint damage and smells of smoke. My daughter had some minor problems with her eyelids due to the smoke. We lost so many things of sentimental value, it would be impossible to place a value on them,” she wrote ConsumerAffairs.Com.
 
Florida fire
Earlier in December in Plant City, Florida, a woman and her two dogs barely escaped a fiery death when flames raced through her home.
 
Debbie and Michael told ConusmerAffairs.Com that their 2000 Ford Expedition SUV parked in the driveway exploded into flames burning the nearby garage all the way through the attic.
 
"I don't even know what's left in there," Debbie said. Fortunately, her two dogs Max and Roy escaped the fire as well.
 
The red 2000 Ford Expedition caught fire without anyone around about 8:50 in the morning, according to the local fire department.
 
The 2000 Ford Expedition was recalled in 2005 because as part of the infamous and massive speed control deactivation switch recall.
 
Shortly after the first recall, owners were notified that an interim repair would be required because Ford did not have sufficient parts to complete the recall.
 
In a letter dated September 12, 2005, Expedition owners were finally told that Ford would have the parts to begin repairing the recalled trucks in February 2006.
 
Report Your Experience
If you've had a bad experience with a consumer product or service, we'd like to hear about it. All complaints are reviewed by class action attorneys and are considered for publication on our site. Knowledge is power! Help spread the word. File your consumer report now.

what are the issue son the GM pickups? havent heard of anything significant. As for the F150, if I'm not mistaken CR calls the 2WD version reliable. Got any proof that its not reliable?

"Wow, that is a lot of trucks that will have to be repaired on a pretty much monthly basis. At the rate those things are breaking, it would have been better financially for Toyota if the thing totally bombed in sales. Well, at least the job outlook for Toyota service tech looks really good. Probably the best job security you can get in today's economy."
 
Stovt001, given the F150s poor reliability record and the fact that the new GM trucks are having issues too why and how are they any better than the Tundra?

a) the Tundra has needed unprecedented incentives (for Toyota) to acheive those numbers
b)sales trailed off in the 2nd half of the year
c)it still has one of the worst interiors in this class
d)why was this info posted in the long term blog? I did not realize Toyota cheerleading was part of the job description for IL staffers.

toyota4life,
please don't forget that the F150 outsells the Tundra by a very wide margin. I'd rather have the Tundra, but the F150 is very popular. Where Toyota beats Ford is in areas like passenger car and SUV sales; in this case, no one "took the bullet" for Ford, as you say. Think before you hit that "post my message" button.
 
mercedesfan,
I agree with you. I have the utmost respect for anyone who drives a hybrid vehicle, such as my dad, because he/she knows that he/she is doing their part to help the environment, even though that amount is almost obsolete. Still, I would never buy a Prius...for gas mileage, I'll stick to a Scion TC, Mazda 3, Civic, etc. Anyone who calls you out like that without even knowing who you are is someone who's opinion doesn't matter, anyways.

I'm glad that Tundra is doing well, its a nice truck with a lot of great features and I think the 5.7 is a beautiful piece.
 
Out on the roads in SE Michigan they're still pretty rare, I see the Toyota parts trucks running around, but few retail units.

firstwagon, I was not referring to Sudbury. Everyone knows about Sudbury but that was decades before I was even born. I am referring to a plant which I cannot even remember the name of (it was a couple years ago that I was doing this research). This place was no where near the destruction of Sudbury. There is still lots of vegetation, animal life is simply migrating away from it so the Candaian government is taking action to ensure that Sudbury is never repeated.
 
All I was trying to argue before everyone blew up and started calling me a liar is that there are certain hidden disadvantages to hybrids that many are not aware of. I have no idea if any of the nickel smelting plants I researched actually provide nickel for automakers, but all smelting procedures are similar and have some nasty byproducts if not handled appropriately (that is the key).
 
Finally, I never once said that hybrids are bad. I still think they are a wiser choice than many 4-cylinder family sedans, I just am not willing to make the compromises in performance to own one.

Mercedesfan, global warming is about as much a threat to the West Coast as El Nino, global cooling, and all the other looming disasters the alarmists keep freaking everyone out over and then never happen. As soon as Al Gore finds another way to stay rich, fat, and famous, the whole thing will go away.

Wow, that is a lot of trucks that will have to be repaired on a pretty much monthly basis. At the rate those things are breaking, it would have been better financially for Toyota if the thing totally bombed in sales. Well, at least the job outlook for Toyota service tech looks really good. Probably the best job security you can get in today's economy.

Are you refering to Sudbury? If so you're likely reading data that's decades out of date.
 
At one time they extracted the nickel from the ore by burning it. At that time they wiped out all vegetation for miles around Sudbury. I remember when I was a kid you could alway tell when you were getting close to Sudbury because it looked like the moon.
 
It doesn't look like that now though.

opfreak, I have never read that article that those links are referring to nor was I attacking Toyota in particular in any way. The plant I am referring to is in northern Ontario and I know of it through personal experience. As a mechanical engineer I was investigating the use of nickel for a component I was designing but deemed the substance too environmentally hazardous to use after reviewing 16 nickel smelting plants throughout the world. The Canadian plant was simply the worst of them.
 
I do not appreciate being called a liar or ignorant. This kind of classless blogging is tasteless and reflects very poorly on you.
 
bemanix88, I agree diesels definitely have their issues and they are no more a solution than hybrids, I just feel you make fewer compromises with a diesel.

mercedes your ethier a lair or ignorant. or read that stupid lie of an article about the prius, nickel and that plant.
 
or worse yet, ablind member of the mmgw church.
 
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770
 
http://www.greenparty.ca/en/node/2410

Really? I've heard battery production is environmentally unfriendly but I've never heard of it being to that extent. I'll give it a bit more research. Although sales-wise, I suppose my argument still stands.
 
I think diesel is a great alternative and far more palatable than hybrids, but the pollution diesels produce is still an issue even with all the advances in the field. I doubt we'll be seeing any PZEV diesel vehicles anytime soon.
 
Utilizing common sense when purchasing a vehicle is the number one best way to save gas and help the environment, but that's a lofty expectation for Americans. My Honda Fit averages a solid 33mpg in the 'burbs, around 37-40 on the highway and is incredibly practical and fun to drive.

bemanix88, I agree with you. It amazes me how pig-headed people can be about the environement. Then again I live on the West coast and the global warming crisis is very real to me.
 
I do have to argue with your defense of the Prius, though. I am not attacking Toyota, but every hybrid on the market is just as much the reason for climate change as any other car. The mining and smelting of the nickel for the battery pack causes so many problems it would make you sick to your stomach. A smelting plant in Ontaria, Canada has been declared an area of national emergency by the Canadian government as acid rain falls almost daily and the wildlife within a 3-mile radius of the plant is completely destitude.
 
Hybrids really will not be a viable alternative until car makers can find a more environmentally friendly way to make hybrids. For this reason I have become a huge diesel proponent. Still, any hybrid owner is still doing their part more than anyone who would buy that God-awful Tundra unless they absolutely needed it.

I thought I was the only one getting concerned about the size of vehicles. My parents had Suburbans in the 1970s and 1980s. The new ones seem so much bigger than the one I learned to drive in, a 1978 Suburban Silverado with the 350 4 barrel.
 
Believe it or not that one got 17 mpg on the highway even back then. Oh well, I'm just probably in shock from paying the insurance bill. 3 cars(one teenager). I'm sure I will recover, but not sure about my wallet :O)
 
I am hoping that the recent $100 barrel of oil will help get diesels and GM to get the two-mode hybrids out faster.
 
Being the hypocrite I am, complaining about the size of vehicles and wanting a diesel Avalanche. Oh well, it will be a few years before I buy anything new (wife gets to choose next car :o(

The Toyota Tundra is smaller than the Suburban, Excursion, F-450, and Dodge Megacab dually.
 
...so... The Toyota Tundra is a downsize.

Just when you thought a Chevy Suburban was big enough, Ford came out with the Excursion.
 
Just when you thought the Ford F-450 was big, Dodge came out with the Mega-cab Dually, and then the International Colausus (whatever they call it), and now the Toyota Tundra.
 
When will it end?
 
I'm sure people that bought two door Yarises and Accents and Aveos are driving around nervous one of these things will crush them.

The Tundra, in 4-door form, looks like a massively stretched extended cab, due to the pillar mounted rear handles. And I thought only the Pathfinder was allowed to have those..

jr1m90: I love how thickheaded people can be to ignore just about every scientist on the planet, excepting the oil company funded ones.
 
Your reasoning that hybrids are not viable makes no sense. Just a few years ago, hybrids were a niche vehicle, barely mature technology-wise and not very practical. The fact that in a few short years they sell nearly as well as bread-and-butter pickup trucks is an amazing show of just how viable hybrids are. Toyota sells about half as many Priuses (Prii?) as it does Corollas for crying out loud.
 
Don't bother responding. There is no reasoning with people who don't believe in science but I just wanted to point out the flaws in your logic.

Nothing, they just keep building the best vehicles money can buy and they got me for life.