For those who enjoy driving, our long-term 2008 Ford Focus SES -- despite its "upgraded tires...as well as...front and rear stabilizer bars for improved handling," in the words of our model review -- is only slightly more pulse-quickening than a dump truck. On second thought, the edge might go to the dump truck; I've never driven one, so I'll have to reserve judgment. Yet there are evidently plenty of non-enthusiasts who like the Focus just fine, judging by the car's 28% sales spike through June. Could it be that our blue bullet isn't so bad after all?
Nah. Like Erin, I think those sales numbers are more indicative of a general state of panic in the face of rising gas costs. Consumers are understandably trying to maximize their MPGs, and that's causing them to overlook what might otherwise be deal-breaking shortcomings -- such as the foul styling, raucous engine and joyless chassis that come standard on every Focus.
What kills me about our Focus is that Ford can obviously do a lot better -- look no further than its global C1 platform, which underpins the stylish and dynamically excellent Mazda 3 as well as the Volvo C30 and the European Focus. However, the Mazda can't match the Focus' fuel economy, and the C30's both thirstier and more expensive. That's why it's kind of exciting that the European Focus is coming our way in 2010. If it matches or exceeds the fuel economy of the current Focus while providing Mazda-like driving dynamics, it could be a real tide-turner for Ford.
Josh Sadlier, Associate Editor, Edmunds.com @ 10,375 miles
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Jeez, it's about time they brought the Euro Focus over here--this is one post-SVT-spec Ford vehicle I might actually consider taking for a test drive!
The 2010 Euro-Focus would be a real tide-turner for Ford, just like the original 2000 was. Hopefully Ford has learned a lesson and won't try to dull down the new one over the years
What is the real sale price for Focus? This may explain why people buy them.
I agree that the Euro Focus, Fiesta and Kuga, IF they manage to make the trip over the pond unchanged, could change Ford's fortune.
I would be one of the Ford converts if I could get a Fiesta 5-door hatch with a decent powertrain, fuel economy, feature set, build quality and price. I'm already sold to its design.
I think the main benefit of having the Euro Focus is that everytime there is a Focus blog/thread, we won't have everyone whining about why we don't have the Euro Focus!
Then again, we saw GM's epic fail with the Astra coming "straight from Europe", so I wouldn't hold your breath on Ford and the Focus.
I don't know why the Saturn isn't working, but there are a lot more Focuses (Foci?) on the road. The car does have a following of sorts, and if Ford brought the Euro car here without many changes, word-of-mouth would help it tremendously.
I rented a Focus four-door and while it wasn't as bad as reviewers say it is...
...okay, it was. Who am I kidding?
Doug, I'm curious about your statement. Do you not like the Astra personally or are you simply referring to its bad sales performance? I sat in one and I thought it was pretty nice. I didn't drive it though, so my impressions are limited to the interior feel.
Having said that though, I'd go with the Rabbit for the same money. Or a Civic EX for a little more money. Or a Mazda 3...
Ok I guess I see what everyone else sees. Nevermind.
"Doug, I'm curious about your statement. Do you not like the Astra personally or are you simply referring to its bad sales performance?"
Well, it seemed like when the Astra was announced, there was a lot of hype, lots of chatter on these boards about how GM FINALLY listened to the people, will give them the small car they want, etc etc. And then the car came, the reviews were sort of mediocre, take it or leave it, and suddenly no one talks about the car anymore. The sales are low, and even though its a new car, I hardly see any on the road (though there are lots in dealer lots).
So, that's the origin of my harsh comment. As for my personal opinion, I don't much care for the styling over other hatches - I prefer the GTI, Mazda3 and MINI Cooper/Clubman. It seems to be fairly well built though.
"Then again, we saw GM's epic fail with the Astra coming "straight from Europe", so I wouldn't hold your breath on Ford and the Focus."
Exactly. The number of people clamoring for European spec small cars is small but they wont shut up so you are fooled into thinking there is mass demand for expensive European compacts. People want the Euro Focus but they dont want the $30k price tag. The focus is selling well because of mileage and Sync. Most compact car owners dont care about a "joyless chassis" although IL editors cant seem to understand that concept. If people were concerned with driving dynamics and styling the corolla would be a failure. People in this segment care about price, reputation and mileage. You dont see the 3 coming close to the class leaders in sales in spite of its great handling and styling. The point is the Focus isnt a bad car for people who buy cars for practical reasons. Its a bad car for those who suffer from Euro market car envy and hate the fact that Ford doesnt sell its $30k Focus in the states even though Ford is smart enough to know such a car wouldnt sell well.
"Well, it seemed like when the Astra was announced, there was a lot of hype, lots of chatter on these boards about how GM FINALLY listened to the people"
GM listened to the press. They are representative of normal car buyers and thus the Astra hasnt sold well. Americans dont like hatches and people think the Astra is too expensive even though it has nice materials. Meanwhile Toyota is enjoying huge sales numbers for the dull Corolla and its cheap plastic interior. Interior materials and great handling dont mean much in this segment.
"And then the car came, the reviews were sort of mediocre, take it or leave it, and suddenly no one talks about the car anymore. "
Actually most reviews were positive. The engine was the primary source of discontent. As for "fairly well built" I would say the Astra's interior is better than anything in the class not made by VW. The interiors of the 3 and Mini are not as nice from a material quality standpoint.
"Having said that though, I'd go with the Rabbit for the same money. Or a Civic EX for a little more money. Or a Mazda 3..."
Aside from mileage the Astra is better than the civic coupe. Has better handling, better interior, bigger wheels/brakes and more upscale features.
"Having said that though, I'd go with the Rabbit for the same money. Or a Civic EX for a little more money. Or a Mazda 3..."
Aside from mileage the Astra is better than the civic coupe. Has better handling, better interior, bigger wheels/brakes and more upscale features.
Hey, 1487 is still back. You've been quiet!
I disagree with you on the Astra having a better interior than 3 or MINI, but as we've seen from endless blog posts, interior quality seems to be subjective (even though it definitely should not be).
What other car in the Focus price range has a dedicated iPod connection and Bluetooth? The Rabbit sort of has an iPod connection but it the worst out there.
The Focus coupe is ugly but the sedan is OK looking, you know, for a $15,000 car.
Dodo - you're the execption, most American buyers are not willing to spend much money on a small car. Unless they're tricked like w/ the Prius. The current Euro Focus would be too expensive for US consumers.
"I disagree with you on the Astra having a better interior than 3 or MINI, but as we've seen from endless blog posts, interior quality seems to be subjective (even though it definitely should not be)."
I dont like the Astras interior design, too European. Have you been inside one? The interior QUALITY and materials are top notch. It feels like a VW. Even the 3 doesnt feel like the Rabbit inside.
Brian is correct. People want GM/Ford to sell their Euro products here but are unwilling to pay the premium prices those products command. See, Europeans dont automatically think "cheap" when they see a Ford or Opel model. Americans want better cars from American automakers but still want those vehicles at a substantial discount vs Toyota and Honda products. If Ford sold a Euro focus here it would get positive press but then you would hear "at $25k loaded the Focus is a tought sell vs more established players like Civic and Corolla".
You know what else is funny? There is a lot of chatter on the internet about how these high fuel prices mean there is demand for premium European type compacts. Americans are mad about gas prices because of the impact on their budgets. If you are trying to save money you arent necessarily looking for a $30k compact when a $18k model will do. The purpose of downsizing is to save money and those on a tight budget arent likely to consider a premium compact that is priced like an entry level BMW.
A couple points.
(1) 1487, I bet the Mazda 3 would be selling like hotcakes if it had a blue oval on the hood (with the attendant dealer network) and gave you 5-10 additional MPGs. Hopefully the US-market EuroFocus will fit that description.
(2) It's correct to say that the EuroFocus would be too expensive for the US -- if Ford simply started importing them from Europe. But check the press release I linked to:
"Ford is announcing today that four- and five-door versions of the next-generation European Ford Focus small car will be produced in North America beginning in late 2010."
Production in Mexico, say, could keep costs down and enable Ford to bring us a EuroFocus that approaches the actual Euro version in terms of quality and performance. At least I hope so, for Ford's sake.
-Sadlier
Also when Ford says "versions" that means you will still see some decontenting. But if they leave the chasis and the other major driving/handling attributes alone it will be welcomed.
Also, on another thing 1487 said, I agree with your point about downsizing and people not wanting a car that's expensive if the whole point is to save money. Still, you have to admit that the success of MINI proves there is a market for a more premium feeling small car. If premium small cars become the new chic thing like the huge SUV was in the 90s, then there is some potential here for them to sell. Just not with the "I need to downsize to save money" crowd, as you pointed out.
I also agree with you that the Astra interior materials are top notch. I disagree that it handles better than the civic, but I base that on reviews I've read as I've never driven the Astra so you may be right. I also prefer the design and layout of the civic interior, though I would give the nod in materials quality to the Astra. Don't know about stopping distances.
I drove the Astra last week and found it to be one of the few cars I would feel happy owning. I've sat in a Mazda3 and found it to feel too small and for some reason my right knee jabs into the center console. The Rabbit is right up there, quality is very similar, but the Astra's engine feels much more refined.
The Astra is roomy, relativly inexpensive for all that you get standard (rain sensor!), great handling, safety, and high quality everything. I'm not sure why people complained about its 1.8L engine..the 2.4L in my moms '07 Camry feels much weaker, louder, and throttle response is terrible. The torsional rigidity and feeling of quality is unmached by America's number one selling car.
I'd buy one in a heartbeat, but it doesn't have a friggin iPod or even AUX connection which I need terribly...
I just read crowb's comment above. I've driven the Civic and the Astra just feels much peppier and eager to move than the Civic. I stomped the pedal on a Civic from a light and that thing took its time getting up to speed, making me think why the heck anyone would want a 4cyl engine. Braking distances on both are probably similar, I remember the Civic having great pedal feel and the Astra was similar but a little touchy, requiring little pedal travel to bring the car to a stop.
One other thing to add: the Euro-Focus is supposed to arrive at around the same time as the Fiesta. The Focus is currently the low price entry car for Ford but I imagine the product planners will have the Fiesta taking on that role allowing the Euro-Focus to move up-market a bit and possibly justifying a higher price tag. Certainly not the $30k that 1487 is quoting, but say you knock off $2k-$5k or so for building it in Mexico as Sadlier suggests and another $2k-$5k or so for de-contenting that crowb mentioned...
This may be the most sensible conversation that I've ever seen at Inside Line. Bravo.
I will just add that I really thought that the Astra would jump-start the market for premium small cars priced under the MINI. There must be people who want to downsize to save on fuel costs, but who don't want to lose that quality feel that they had on their previous (larger) vehicle.
I agree about the Astra interior: Thumbs-up for quality, thumbs-down for style. And I never knew it didn't have an AUX jack! Dealbreaker!
If you're downsizing to save on fuel costs, the Astra's EPA numbers are not stellar. 24/30 (AT) is slightly worse than the Focus' 24/33 (AT), for a higher starting price. And when the Honda dealer across the road has a Civic for the same price as the Astra, but rated at 25/36 (AT), the choice is obvious.
My 2 cents on the topic....
Euro Focus - I think that assuming that the Euro Focus would have to cost $30K if brought in the US is incorrect, because simply applying the exchange is not how you should estimate the price. The price is certainly impacted by the production costs, but other market specific factors heavily impact the price. As an example the same cars, built in North America are significantly more expensive in Canada vs. US. This is just because the manufacturers can sell the same cars for higher prices in Canada regardless of the exchange rate.
If Ford would produce the identical Euro Focus in North America to reduce the production costs (e.g. Mexico), trim some high-end features, which other cars in the class don't have anyway, I bet they could sell it at similar prices as the Civic, Mazda3, Rabbit, Corolla, etc.
IMHO offering a better car for a competitive price has broader appeal than offering a crappy car for a lower price.
Astra - IMO it's too early to judge if Astra is a success or a failure. It seems like in Canada it is a success. Last months they sold more Astra (900+) in Canada than in the US (800+), which is very unusual for any nameplate. For illustration, Saturn usually sells around 200-300 Aura per months in Canada.
I do like Astra too and having sat in the Astra (and test drove), Mazda3 (own) and Rabbit in the same day, I would say the Astra's interior materials are above both Mazda and VW IMO. The Astra looses to the other two in the performance compartment. This is a problem when they are similarly priced. If Astra would be priced significantly below those two, it would sell better IMO. I also don't know how much GM advertises the Astra in the US, which for new name is crucial. I for one, at the same price or slightly higher, I would buy an Astra instead of a Corolla or Civic. Oh, and I would buy the dealer-installed armrest (www.astraarmrest.com) to partially solve one of the few issues I have with this car.
Sorry for the long post.
I was a fan of the original ZX3 and I've cursed Ford ever since for not giving us the updated chassis and the hotted up versions.
The New York Times ran an article a day or two ago (think it's still online) about how American's small car tastes are rapidly changing. Because of the fuel price crunch, people are shedding luxurious SUVs/trucks for small cars but don't want to lose the luxury features. They report the average selling price of small cars in the U.S. has increased at a rate double the rest of the market. They cite that the increasing market success of small cars is not because of the price, but for fuel economy reasons. It's an interesting read.
Come on already! This car is the SAME platform that was lauded just a few years ago for its ability and sportiness. Ford, while lamentably having cheapo'd on several details: no more telescoping steering wheel, and weird interior pull handles, still kept the chassis basically the same. Doesn't the car deserve some respect?
Yes, I know, the European Focus is even better, blah, blah, blah. ...that fact doesn't make ours worse, just not as good. But when our domestic Focus is already good (reading from older reports) it can't be that bad...
OK, time to take cover from all the biased Euro Focus/Japanese Car lovers (note: I said "biased")
Rented a Focus SES sedan last weekend in South Dakota. It had leather, sunroof, SYNC, etc. It wasn't the best car in the world but some people on these blogs are a little harsh/spoiled.
Per the trip computer, the mileage was 30+ for the weekend's duration, the interior accomodated my wife, friend, baby and me without a complaint from anybody, and the SYNC was fun to test (syncing my Motorola RAZR was a breeze). It had no trouble cruising at 80+.
It had more wind noise than I expected and I could do without the fake vents, over-styled wheels and gages. I also didn't like the odd, useless rectangular indentions on the door handles but never did I miss not having the extra door grab handle that's so discussed here.
For the general driving population, it's a pretty good car that meets one's needs. With incentives thrown in it's a good deal too.
Has anybody driven one with a manual? The automatic was fine but maybe a manual would perk things up a bit.
BTW, lest anyone think I'm driving an '87 Festiva and would thus confuse the Focus with a Bentley, my daily driver is an '08 Passat 2.0.
jlaszlo, I have an '07 with the manual. Basically the same car as the '08 you rented, with a different skin. Having rented an '07 AT for a week, I can say the manual definitely perks things up. It's zippy around town and returns excellent fuel economy. However having not driven an '08 with either transmission, I can't comment on that model year.
"till, you have to admit that the success of MINI proves there is a market for a more premium feeling small car. "
what success? have you actually looked at MINI sales? The car is hardly a major player in the compact market. BMW is selling 5k a month. The 3 sells over twice that a month and its not even in the same league with the Fit and Yaris from a sales perspective. The media and MINI fans give folks the impression than the MINI is some sales force to be reckoned with but that's not the case. Chevy sold more Tahoes than BMW sold Minis last month.
"One other thing to add: the Euro-Focus is supposed to arrive at around the same time as the Fiesta."
Focus isnt coming until 2011. Fiesta will be here in 2010. Ford will definitely decontent the Focus for America but that doesnt mean it wont be a good car. The main change will be to not include certain high end options available in Europe. In spite of all the media hype about teh rush to small cars and the desire for premium cars the plain Jane civic and corolla remain the best sellers in the US. Neither is premium and neither represents the European concept of a small car. Of course small cars sales are up these days but this idea that people are abandoning midsize cars and crossovers in droves to buy Minis is nonsense. The civic took the #1 sales slot for ONE MONTH and people were claiming that small cars were taking over. FAst forward to June and the Camry was back on top where it always has been.
"till, you have to admit that the success of MINI proves there is a market for a more premium feeling small car. "
I know it was bounced around once before, but I'm going to bring it up again.
I simply don't understand the "premium feeling" of the Mini. I've never driven one, so I won't comment on that. I have sat in them and they feel CHEAP! Fugly, cheap, plastic everywhere. I just don't get it. The Focus doesn't feel anywhere near as cheap as the Mini. The Astra clearly beats them both.
The Mini offers some premium features but its not premium in terms of interior design or materials. The car's success is blown way out of proportion. I see tons of them but I'm in a major East coast city. I have a feeling Minis are few and far between in the interior of the country and my own state.