Long-Term Road Tests

You guys are really making it sound like the Aura is a torture chamber designed to ruin the lives of all those who dare waste their money to purchase it. I make no denials about GM's need to FURTHER improve their interior qualities, but the bottom line is the Aura (and it's cousin, the malibu) are great cars that really have some great merits. I'm really unimpressed with Edmunds' blogging on the Aura thus far...

having to manage it is bad. not a big fan of "high performance" FWD cars in general

I couldnt remember the torque on the Altima. Either way no Japanese brand has ever tamed as much torque as GM has with its V8 cars.

256 for TL type s
258 for Altima 3.5
258 for Eclipse
 
I know that the Altima, at least, has minimized the torque steer for the newer model (one of the biggest gripes with the 3rd gen)

" think they did say it had plenty of "oomph"
 
Oh, well we have one positive attribute. Thats good to know.
 
The GP GTP and GXP were mentioned earlier but both had torque steer controlled very well. C&D tested the GXP when it was new and outlined the technology used to control torque steer and deemed it very effective. And this was a car with 323 lb-ft of torque. GM knows how to manage torque steer. The Japanese have much less experience with doing so and have never managed as much torque as GM has with its V8s. The most torque from a FWD Japanese car is 251lb ft I believe.

Redliner -
 
My 06 Civic SI has torque steer. 139 lb/ft multiplied by the gearing is more than enough to cause tire squirm.
 
In fact, my car has about the same acceleration as the Aura (in an all-out straight line).
 
Joe

Josh
 
Maybe you should spend your money on a Civic Si. 200hp. 130lb/ft. No torque steer.

i think they did say it had plenty of "oomph"

there is room for improvement but it would be nice if they could mention some of the positive attributes.

chavis,
 
wasn't trying to imply that the drive train was a fault, but there is always room for improvement (not just the Aura)

Hey Chavis,
 
Regarding your last point: wouldn't the trans shift back down to 1st under WOT?
 
I BELIEVE (not sure) that the new TL type-s has an LSD even on the auto, but I could be wrong.
 
Caddy offered some awesome rides (I loved alot of their looks)...but the FWD dynamic and cheap interior doors/dash turned alot of people away. I understand the need for large buttons for the demographic, but those large buttons wobbled within their settings and had a pretty overall cheap look and feel (i.e. they were set within a gigantic black/tan plastic cut-out).
 
Still, as you point out, GM advanced alot of cutting-edge technology into their caddies (unfortunately, their variable cylinder management of the 80's bombed due to reliability problems).
 
Joe

langjie- the Aura might have some faults, but the powertrain isn't one of them.
 
joe-
 
I was referring to the current Type S with the 5 spd auto. I don't believe it has a limited slip on the automatic. Overall, my point was that other manufacturers have to result to electronic limiting schemes to deliver the goods in their hi-po FWD cars, GM does not.
 
The STS had plenty innovative features and got even better with the '02 model year. It was definitely the best FWD luxury sedan ever in my book. Most folks don't know but it was the first car ever to have Delphi's Magnetic Ride Control- even before the Corvette.
 
Note to Josh (and others that can't handle the Aura's power). Wait till the transmission shifts to second and then nail the throttle. First gear is very short (4.48:1) so it'll upshift quickly to second if you lay off the gas from a standstill. When it does try applying WOT and see how that works for ya.

Everyone buy a Toyota Camry!! lol

Chavis -
 
You are right. After reading your post, I read up more on that specific caddy and it seems like it's got some impressive stuff on board for it's 1998 launch (heck, even by today's standards it's got some good technology). I've driven a (as in 1) caddy w/ the northstar and 4-speed auto...and it felt like a cruiser....slow response, but then a great build-up, gear shifts were measured in seconds but never jarred the butt.
 
Regarding Acura: In 2004/2005 (pre TL-S) the 6-speed TL had a good amount of torque. They got rid of that for 2006 using a new driveshaft design and torque-limiting engine management. Acceleration times didn't suffer, and the torque steer was, for the most part, eliminated.
 
I've never met an uncontrollable torque-steering car...all can be controlled, to my knowledge...but I have met cars where it ruins the driving experience. I've driven some GM cars with really harsh torque steer (the GXP/GTP of a few years back), and driven GM cars with no torque steer (Buicks, primarily due to response tuning in my mind).
 
I don't care for the torque steer in my Civic SI...but it only bothers me when the roads are damp, so it makes the wheel squirm.
 
Then again, I actually consider a MazdaSpeed 3. So obviously I'm not immune to the allure of high-torque FWD domestics :)
 
Joe

it entertaining going through 59 comments.
 
i think that the 02 altima was bashed for it's "white knuckle torque steer" as well. i really see the aura going the path of the 3rd gen altima. it's a bit rough in the 1st iteration, but when they redesign it, they'll take into account of what it's faults are and fix them.
 
i think because of this, the aura people need to be a bit more honest about their opinions else how can GM improve upon their creation?
 
oh yeah, cars do have too much power now. most people aren't using that much power anyways so in reality, they are just lugging extra weight

Joe-
 
"How do you think they've achieved good mileage with those engines? They used a very tall geared 4-speed automatic. You didn't experience torque steer because the car has incredibly slow throttle tip-in (tuned for it's clients expectations of a smooth driving experience) combined with a 4-speed auto that was tuned for slow, infrequent shifts...on a very, very heavy vehicle."
 
The STS did have 295lbs-ft@4400 while the SLS had 300 lbs-ft at 4000. The STS had a 3.71 axle (relatively short) while the SLS had a 3.11(tall). The STS' throttle tip in was not slow and the car had completely different higher lift longer duration cams that pushed the powerband higher into the rev range. The car had a four speed because that was all that was available at the time- this was not some engineering choice to quell torque steer. The STS also had Perfomance Algorithim Shifting which was NOT tuned for slow infrequent shifts- in fact it was tuned for very fast shifting. It would hold gears when the car sensed lateral G's over a certain threshold to give you maximum acceleration though a curve and rapidly upshift when it sensed the car completely that curve. Please get your facts straight. I haven driven this car numerous times and it's performance was clearly above average for a 4000 lbs FWD car.
 
BTW, the increase of torque and weight of the FWD STS is proportional to the Aura 3.6l.
 
You are referring to the Grand Prix GXP with the 5.3L V8- it has 255/45 18s up front and 225/50s on the rear. The V8 makes 323 lbs-ft compared to 280 from the s/c 3800 so additional provisions were necessary if the driver were to aggresively lay down the additional grunt.
 
I don't think 1487 is giving GM too much credit but I don't think you are giving them enough. Look what happened to Acura when they tried to pump all that torque through the front wheels of the TL Type-S. They don't have experience with a lot of torque and it shows. GM has been doing this for years and non of their cars are out of control when the throttle is down- contrary to what Josh thinks. As you said, he was attempting to nail the gas on wet pavement yet expected the car to perform the miracle of laying down all its grunt with no protest. Hmmm... seems logical to me.

I haven't seen this smoke billowing out of rear ends since I was invited to a NHRA race.
 
Why do people always mistake "preference" and "bias"? I've driven a 4 cyl car for 8 years now. I don't like driving my father's Deville. I guess I have a V8 bias.
 
This maddening argument is over something so insignificant it's laughable. WOT take-offs are not what sways purchases between vehicles. It's the driver's preference and driving style that determines the purchase.
 
It's true that the thought of "Well, it's a domestic car, so it's got lots of power, but will fall apart in 40,000 miles," and " Well, it's an import, so it's boring, but it'll last 300,000," can not be said anymore. Unfortunately, these sentiments are still in the heads of people. It will take time and good products (like Malibu, Aura, Acadia, etc) to help dissipate these misconceptions.
 
Arguing about every nuance of a vehicle is nitpicking. Every car has it's foibles. In time, even the Accord will make someone catch his/her breath and say "Oh My Word! That's terrible the way the car does this!"
 
I'm done complaining. You can continue bickering about oil on the road and why they attach the dash with hex bolts rather than Phillips screws.

1487 -
 
You've made alot of great arguments in the past, but you've ruined your statements with two sentences from above:
 
"That said, there is NOTHING the Accord can do (besides offer navigation) that the Aura cannot... I do not need to drive the Accord for thousands of miles to know that I don't want one."
 
That's hyperbolic prejudice. Furthermore, no one (that I've seen) is saying a car like the Accord is far superior to the Aura. I certainly don't think so. I do prefer it, but it's simply from the little things. It's not as good a value from a price/feature standpoint.
 
Further, I think you give GM too much credit. You think they conquered torque steer because you drove a Cadillac Seville (not STS) with 295 HP driven through the front wheels and didn't experience any?
 
How do you think they've achieved good mileage with those engines? They used a very tall geared 4-speed automatic. You didn't experience torque steer because the car has incredibly slow throttle tip-in (tuned for it's clients expectations of a smooth driving experience) combined with a 4-speed auto that was tuned for slow, infrequent shifts...on a very, very heavy vehicle.
 
Moving on from there...the Grand Prix GTP in 03/04 (can't remember which year) had wider front tires than rear in order to add traction (too much power through the front wheels), reduce torque steer (a massive problem in that car), and help balance the understeer of the vehicle. It still wriggled under moderate acceleration.
 
Torque steer is completely manageable on almost every front wheel drive car. The Nissan Sentra Spec-V had wheel-wrenching torque steer...but if you had two hands on the wheel it wasn't a problem. It still upsets balance and disrupts the driving experience.
 
In the case of the Aura...reading Josh's comments and post again, it sounds like the torque steer was exacerbated by wet/oily pavement. Josh, from what I understand torque steer is greatly exaggerated on such conditions because only some parts of the tire contact patch grip, resulting in tire squirm, resulting in torque steer. Do you have a chance to drive the Altima on typical So. Cal. dry, smooth roads?
 
Oh...one last comment on 1487's writings for now..."..popular with IL staff and people like you think that is proof positive that there is a domestic love fest going on here."
 
I think it is one of the indicators that there isn't the bias you claim. When I read their comments, and experience the cars they've commented on, I find what they say to be on-target.
 
Those new GM products, are, to use a phrase I used before, the current pinnacle of GM design/technology. And IL really likes them. Maybe they don't like others because they use an older design or are not the best thing on the market right now. Maybe all the cars are so good that the only thing left to do is pick on the little things?
 
Joe
 
P.s. Truedelta.com, an automotive surveying website created by a hard-working individual named Michael Karesh, has new data on vehicle launches and owner reported experiences. The Aura had some problems coming out, the Accord came out with much less owner-reported problems. Perhaps that is evidence of institutional bias as well?

"That's a pretty tough statement to make. Camry is the best selling car in America. Furthermore, in Edmunds' recent tests, it was quicker than all other contenders in both 4 and 6-cyl configurations and had the highest observed fuel economy with the 4-cyl engine (which is a big deal nowadays). Also, despite a few pieces in the news, most average consumers still see the Toyota badge as a mark of excellent reliability over the long term. Plus, didn't a Camry get first place in a recent MotorTrend test? I'm not saying that I like the Camry (at all), but it still has quite a lot going for it in the marketplace."
 
let me make this simple for you. NONE of these cars is a bad car. The camry is simply outclassed at this point. Even the new sonata has it beat. Best selling means nothing to me. The corolla is the best selling compact, but its not the best. The F150 is the best selling vehicle in america but that doesnt mean its the best vehicle you can buy. The Impala outsells the fusion, Mazda6, Altima and many other cars of similar price but I know you wouldnt deem it superior. I see you cant stand for anyone to slight any import vehicle, even the camry. Most GM bashers would concede the Camry is in 3rd or 4th place amongst midsize sedans at this point. I never said its a bad car however.

"Furthermore, torque steer is not cool. Especially when you get it in straight or minor-turn situations. It upsets balance. As I pointed out above, it could be for a variety of reasons beyond just normal fwd/big engine design. Or it could be a problem with the car. "
 
Torque steer isnt a problem in the car under normal circumstances which is one reason people are a little annoyed with this post. This issue hasnt even come up previously in the LT blog as far as I know. How many people accelerate at full throttle? Furthermore, NO ONE has more experience with taming high hp FWD cars than GM. The old STS had 295 lb-ft through the front wheels with minimal torque steer. And yes I have driven that car at a Cadillac driving event so I know first hand. The idea that GM cant control 251 lb-ft in the Aura and the wheel squirms wildly at the slightest provocation is totally absurd to anyone interested in applying logic. However, if you of the school of thought that we are not to disagree with IL editors since we dont drive cars for a living then I suppose it makes perfect sense.
 
As chavis said, maybe Josh should stick to cars with torque output he can handle like the civic and corolla. I would assume JOsh (this is CA afterall) has been raise on a steady diet of I-4 powered import cars and is unable to manage the powerful V6 that lurks under the Aura's hood. I understand that big engines are anathema to those who love high revving VTEC four bangers but the Aura is completely managable to those used to driving FWD cars with real power.