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"GM is outselling Toyota in Europe because they bought Opel, without Opel GM has NOTHING in Europe. "
GM bought Opel in 1929. Opel is GM. Opel is the primary division that sells to European customers. Different markets, different vehicles. GM also owns Vauxhall, which is popular in the UK, and of course Saab. So to say GM is nothing in Europe without Opel is incorrect.
"BMW sells well in Japan, MB sells well in Japan and even Audi sells decently in Japan. Face it, Japanese do not want/like American cars. "
Yeah, I think the Japanese are still a little bitter about the nuke thing. They won't admit it (part of that "saving face" thing), but deep down they're still bitter.
At least they like our airplanes and Whiskey.
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BMW sells well in Japan, MB sells well in Japan and even Audi sells decently in Japan. Face it, Japanese do not want/like American cars. GM is outselling Toyota in Europe because they bought Opel, without Opel GM has NOTHING in Europe. Caddy BLS you say? Yeah right...
Anyway, No.1 is No.1, no matter how you spin it.
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1487
- Mar 17, 2008 5:17 pm
(#28 Total: 30)
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Philadelphia PA United States of America |
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"All this #1, #2 garbage is just for the birds. Why not just focus on building high quality, reliable, competitive vehicles at a solid price? "
Who suggested vehicles should be otherwise?
"If the Wuling vihicles are to be counted into GM's sales then Subaru should be counted into Toyota's as well."
What about my homework on GM outselling Toyota in every market where they compete head to head? Is that accurate? Must be. Discounting the sales of the Chinese brand gives Toyota a slim lead for 2007. Since they were supposed to be ahead in 2006 and maybe even 2005 I guess it's about time. The #1 position was inevitable when you consider Toyota's domination of their home market which is one of the top 5 in the world. Unfortunately for GM you would never have the Japanese flocking to a foreign brand in the way Americans have done. Its ironic that the Japanese Big 3 have been able to convince americans to pay premiums for their upscale brands when those brands wouldnt even fly in Japan.
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Again, 1478 needs to do his homework...
Only the Wuling vehicles didn't get counted into the overall GM sales because GM has less than 50% of the shares in the SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co. However, other sales in China like Buick are indeed counted into the overal GM sales.
If the Wuling vihicles are to be counted into GM's sales then Subaru should be counted into Toyota's as well.
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All this #1, #2 garbage is just for the birds. Why not just focus on building high quality, reliable, competitive vehicles at a solid price?
As for the Tundra, its a great truck in a sea of great trucks. Yes, it has its shortcomings just like everything else. In the end it all comes down to personal preference. For me it would be a toss up between a Silverado and the Tundra.
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1487
- Mar 17, 2008 11:00 am
(#24 Total: 30)
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Philadelphia PA United States of America |
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If Toyota is as good as the press and sales increases suggest I am confused as to why this is the best they can offer for a truck interior. The press has definitely taken the softball approach when it comes to criticizing the interiors of the Tundra and Sequoia. MT just did a comparo and barely mentioned the Toyota's ugliest in class and ergonomically unfriendly interior.
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1487
- Mar 17, 2008 10:57 am
(#23 Total: 30)
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Philadelphia PA United States of America |
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"But GM owns only 34 percent of the Chinese company that produces Wuling vehicles, SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co."
What you didnt mention is that all foreign automakers in China are forced by the government to partner with local companies. If you cant count GM's China sales you probably cant count those of VW, TOyota, etc. since they are all in similar ventures that they do not control outright. I dont know that I have seen sales figures that omit GM and Toyota's Chinese sales.
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1487
- Mar 17, 2008 10:55 am
(#22 Total: 30)
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Philadelphia PA United States of America |
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"With the Titan's interior fixed, that leaves the Tundra as worst-in-class. Not good."
and that really is the bottom line isnt it. Please pass the message on to Louiswei.
"Do a search, Toyota is No. 1 in 2007. Ah heck, I'll do that for ya: "
Do a search and you will see GM sells less vehicles than GM in 3 of the 4 largest markets in the world. GM has no presence in the stagant Japanese market while Toyota has 45% share. Its difficult to battle Toyota for sales supremacy when foreign makers have little presence in Toyota's backyard. In the areas where the two companies compete head on GM is ahead. BTW, all the projections on Toyota taking the lead permanantly are based on GM's sales in China slowing and Toyota's sales increases in the US continuing. There is no guarantee of either. Toyota's best US markets are the hardest hit by the housing slump and its associated issues. Their sales are down so far this year but I am willing to bet this is only the beginning. Stay tuned.
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Toyota designers are surely sulking after all this Tundra bashing. First, they're accused of boring design, and now they're being accused of weird design. Not that I don't agree. I have to say I'm glad I don't need a pickup at the moment because I'm very impressed with the Tundra otherwise.
As for Texas, I'd hate for anyone to be misinformed. A large portion is quite flat, but it does have a central hilly region (hill country), and there are even some mountains in the far west. :)
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"BTW, Toyota isnt #1"
Do a search, Toyota is No. 1 in 2007. Ah heck, I'll do that for ya:
"We call it: Toyota topped GM in 2007
General Motors had a solid year in 2007, with global sales up 1.9 percent from 2006. But it is now the world's second-largest automaker. GM slipped well behind Toyota Motor Corp. in global sales. GM sold 8,885,599 total vehicles in 2007, while Toyota says it sold an estimated 9,370,000. Toyota will issue an official total in about a month. "
Source: Automotive News
Also in the article: "It was widely reported this week that the two automakers finished in a dead heat for the No. 1 spot. Here is why: GM includes in its total 516,435 vehicles of the Wuling brand in China.
But GM owns only 34 percent of the Chinese company that produces Wuling vehicles, SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co."
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One more complaint about the Tundra dash: the number of colors. I'm counting four different colors of plastic: grey, black, brown, and some stone/brown/grey mix. I think I would have a seizure if I had to look at that for too long.
Regarding arrogance, that's an effect of success, not a cause.
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Good point, Josh, and good post, too. I happen to believe that the materials in the Silverado are nicer, too. The Tundra's interior feels well-built, but the materials feel kind of cheap. And the design's awful - the gauges are the worst offenders. Have you noticed that they're backlit? It's an ugly shade of orange. Turn the dimmer all the way down during the day & you'll notice a difference.
Seriously, I hope Toyota fixes the gauges and does somethign with that center stack for this truck's refresh. It's gotta be on par with what Nissan did with the Titan's interior b/c the new Ram's coming with a nice interior, the GMs are already nice, and the new F-150's coming, too. With the Titan's interior fixed, that leaves the Tundra as worst-in-class. Not good.
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1487
- Mar 17, 2008 6:30 am
(#17 Total: 30)
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Philadelphia PA United States of America |
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"Well, if arrogance is what made Toyota No. 1, then I guess..."
Arrogance made GM #1 for 70+ years. Wouldn't say its the best way to stay on top...............
BTW, Toyota isnt #1 yet and even when they become #1 its primarily because they sell a lot of vehicles in Japan where GM and other foreign manufacturers have minimal presence. Where GM and Toyota compete head to head GM is usually in the lead. See China, Europe and the US markets for reference.
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What's the use of a navigation system when you need a copilot to operate it? Save $1000 and buy a map.
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billt9
- Mar 16, 2008 5:10 pm
(#15 Total: 30)
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The Tundras dash is pretty decent until you get to the drivers area where the small enclosed gauges and that hideous sea of silver plastic reside.
If Toyota could cut the silver trim back by about 99.9% and execute some nice big clear non tunnel gauges then the dash would come off way better than it does. As of now its overstyled.
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Well, if arrogance is what made Toyota No. 1, then I guess...
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billt9
- Mar 15, 2008 5:04 pm
(#12 Total: 30)
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Yes 1487 is totally right. These arrogant right winged texans obviously live in a state so flat, their product is bound to fall flat on anything without a left wing. There's too much arrogant Aura bashing that's not described well enough on the map of texas. If I had to jump a wagon, at least it would have more than just drums on it. As far as I'm concerned, steers in Texas aren't as good as Kansas City.
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1487
- Mar 15, 2008 3:39 pm
(#11 Total: 30)
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Philadelphia PA United States of America |
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"I also don't 'take kindly' to remarks regarding my homeland. But unlike Aura owners, I can take a joke at my own expense. ;-P"
yet another bandwagon jumper trying to show how he is a better man than those who accurately call out the Aura bashing on this blog. BTW, he never insulted Texas, he merely said its flat which is wholly true last time I checked a topography map.
The Tundra interior is an ergonomic and design failure as far as I am concerned. Who cares about the steering feel in a pickup truck besides people that work for car magazines? No one. I would take slightly worse steering feel over a crappy interior any day of the week. Its amazing to me that Toyota put such a highly criticized interior in the Sequoia virtuall unchanged. Then again, they are known for arrogance so I guess I shouldn't be surrprised.
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