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$40K inferior economy cars that leave cars like 335i, G37, IS 350, CTS, etc. in last week is appealing to me. :o) Different strokes for different folks.
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Philadelphia, PA United States of America |
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Correct, the Impreza is inferior. I guess I just don't see the appeal of $40k economy cars. I don't think I'd ever purchase any 3 series but I certainly would chose it over any souped up brittle riding STi. A WRX makes since in my book as the mark-up isn't too bad and can be rationalized in my brain.
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1487
- Mar 25, 2008 2:44 pm
(#50 Total: 52)
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Philadelphia PA United States of America |
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the 3 is the better car as it should be for thousands more comparably equipped. I read the comparo in automobile mag and the 3 was deemed superior because of refinement. Its a luxuy car and it should be refined. That fact has no bearing on my original point that the sport package makes a BMW a better handling car. I cant understand why anyone would argue otherwise.
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I'm not talking about the Type RA-R. Just Type RA. :o) But it doesn't matter since the Impreza is inferior anyway, right?
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Philadelphia, PA United States of America |
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How many Spec Type RA-R's did they make, around 400? That car didn't even have a radio and was full of Subaru performance parts and lowered on a crunchy suspension. It was a track car so put it on the road with some pot holes and tell me which car you'd rather drive. As I've been frequently told, it's not always about the numbers.
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I don't think it's a good idea to make a generalization like that. A stock JDM Subaru Impreza WRX STI Spec C Type RA can lap the Nürburgring Nordschleife in 7:59.41. Any 3er short of an M3 (read: $) will not lap the 'Ring in under eight minutes.
The GD (USDM MY2002-2007) Impreza chassis is also just as safe, if not safer (IIHS Top Pick), than the 3er chassis. The jaws of life can't even cut through its B-pillars.
Clearly, the Impreza chassis is inferior on the road. :shrug:
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Philadelphia, PA United States of America |
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Suby- umm, I don't think a 3 series was designed to race around an off road track. On the road, it's superior.
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"The 3 series sports a superior chassis to either."
Race the E90/E91/E92 chassis on a rally stage and tell me that. :o)
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mnorm1
- Mar 24, 2008 12:54 pm
(#44 Total: 52)
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"Draw any conclusions from that as you see fit."
Pro BMW bias.
The officially unofficial bias goes like this:
German - great and BMW greatest of them all
Japan - good, but clearly not German. They can only aspire...
U.S. - only a fool would buy a U.S. car, even if it's made in Australia.
Joking....but a grain of truth.
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Philadelphia, PA United States of America |
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Here's a conclusion- those cars ain't remotely comparable. The 3 series is a sports luxury car who's base price starts north of $30k while the Evo and STi begin their lives as fuel friendly econocars that have been marked up to twice their base prices. Slapping a large turbo and AWD onto an econocar and then jacking up the prices does not change the root of the vehicle. The 3 series sports a superior chassis to either and the refinement of the 3 cannot be duplicated in either car. Don't let the $40k price of the STi fool you, it's essentially the same car underneath as a bargain Impreza with 170hp. If the 335 didn't "beat" the other two I would be concerned.
No car has dethroned the 3 according to the press, not even a Lexus, Infiniti or Cadillac so please don't tell me you seriously thought the STi and Evo would come out on top.
BTW- I have no beef with the Impreza or Lancer, I like both in their base forms. That said, I'd drive a Prius before I spent full asking price on the Evo or STi.
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1487 said:
"Since BMWs without the sport package are rarely tested by magazines we really have no idea how much worse a regular BMW would be. You can rest assured that narrower tires and softer suspension will have an effect on skidpad and braking performance."
And I say, again, the BMW 335xi w/o sport package was just picked over the Mitsu Evo and Subaru WRX sti on a recent comparo test.
Draw any conclusions from that as you see fit.
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Philadelphia, PA United States of America |
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1487
- Mar 23, 2008 5:27 pm
(#40 Total: 52)
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Philadelphia PA United States of America |
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"Your claim was that BMWs are only great driving cars with the sports suspension.
There is a difference with the sports suspension, it handles even better!"
That wasnt my claim at all. I said that there is a handling difference between a BMW with the sports package and one without. The CTS without the Fe3 suspension cannot match the numbers of a CTS so equipped. Same would apply to a BMW. If you cant understand that simple fact I don't know why we are having that discussion. BTW, where did anyone say that the regular CTS can't handle? I believe the point was that it doesnt match the cornering and braking of the car equipped with the FE3 suspension and performance brake package.
Since BMWs without the sport package are rarely tested by magazines we really have no idea how much worse a regular BMW would be. You can rest assured that narrower tires and softer suspension will have an effect on skidpad and braking performance.
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The very fact that the BMW w/o the sports suspension was picked over the Mitsu and Subaru speaks volumes about the quality of BMW's standard package. Your claim was that BMWs are only great driving cars with the sports suspension.
There is a difference with the sports suspension, it handles even better!
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1487
- Mar 21, 2008 4:03 pm
(#37 Total: 52)
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Philadelphia PA United States of America |
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"Not true. One of the big magazines this month tested the BMW 335xi (AWD) against the Subaru WRX STi and the Mistu Evo. They picked the BMW as the winner. It is not offered with a sports package in the AWD version."
It is very true. Years back MT tested a regular version of the 540i and its skidpad, braking and slalom performances suffered with the normal suspension and tires.
BTW, just because a magazine picked a 335xi over the WRX and EVO without the sports suspension doesnt mean there is no difference in performance between the standard cars and sports package cars. If there is no difference why pay extra for the sports package? Unlike Cadillac the regular versions of BMWs often come with narrower rubber which means the difference between the standard and sports equipped cars would be very significant. CTS has all season rubber without FE3 suspension but the tires are the same width and same aspect ratio.
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So I wonder if you were to switch out the all season tires to a better summer/performance tire and then run the tests and see how big a difference the switch made?
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"It is not offered with a sports package in the AWD version."
Yes and no.
The sports package is offered in the AWD version but just not the sports suspensions.
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1487 said:
"BMWs dont perform as we know and love without the sport package. The difference between a regular BMW and sports package equipped model would be about the same. The difference is no magazine would ever test a non sport package BMW sedan or coupe"
Not true. One of the big magazines this month tested the BMW 335xi (AWD) against the Subaru WRX STi and the Mistu Evo. They picked the BMW as the winner. It is not offered with a sports package in the AWD version.
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rkoe36
- Mar 21, 2008 12:19 pm
(#33 Total: 52)
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CTS-V= baddest car I've ever seen from a domestic manufacturer. That thing will eat M5s and E63s for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and then puke 'em out, burn that, and then roll up the ashes and smoke them in a big cigar.
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