1487
- Apr 9, 2008 5:27 am
(#62 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
Philadelphia PA United States of America |
|
|
"In some circles, social insecurities dictate that one should not buy anything domestic. That is the animus that drives many commenters here. Period. "
exactly. Such a simple truth but one that is rarely uttered around here. When will folks stop acting like their disinterest in driving a non-import is strictly based on objective measures? If GM built the perfect car most of these critics wouldn't give a chance because of the manufacturer.
|
|
 |
|
|
|
I love 1487 for the simple fact that you guys just cannot get a hold of him.
Every time someone comes in with an emotional (and heavily loaded) assertion about an American car; he just sails in with the facts and this makes a thread blow up.
You're doing yeoman service my friend.
Let us all get this straight:
In some circles, social insecurities dictate that one should not buy anything domestic. That is the animus that drives many commenters here. Period.
So let us not pretend otherwise shall we?
(Who am I kidding? Do what you like. Who am I to stand in the way of some people's psychological needs.)
I will now sit back and wait for the obligatory (desperately pleading) argument that somehow, someway there is something not right about this or that domestic model. I won't even bother with a disclaimer (about whether or not I own a domestic or not). Many of you are so predictable and so old. Why not have another go at assumptions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Saw this yesterday and had to take a pic... a caddy with a vinyl roof:
People still do this? Wasn't this a phase from the 70s and 80s? The driver had to be about 50 which means she was in her 20s/30s when this was popular. Did she think it was cool then?
|
|
|
|
1487
- Apr 7, 2008 10:53 am
(#59 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
Philadelphia PA United States of America |
|
|
The CTS weighs more because its on a more rigid chassis. Nissans are always lighter than American and German cars of similar size. You would have to ask them how they achieve those weight savings. The 5 series is a good 200lbs more than the G35 in spite of being similar size. I can tell you that the doors on the G35 feel like they belong on a Sentra while the doors on the CTS sound like they came from a Benz. I would assume lack of sound deadening also contributes to the G35s reputation for being a little loud and unrefined as well as reducing the cars weight.
BTW, the G35 RWD is nearly $42k with all the goodies. So much for the $9k price difference that started this whole conversation. Seems like $4k to me. Less than that when you factor in the features on the CTS that arent on the G35.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Okay, then the question is, why does the CTS weigh so much more than the G35 while the two are so close in size?
At the end of the day it's whatever floats your boat. For better handling with a luxurious value it's the G35. For a luxury sedan with all the gizmos then it's the CTS.
|
|
|
|
1487
- Apr 7, 2008 9:08 am
(#57 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
Philadelphia PA United States of America |
|
|
"If the CTS is closer to the 5-series in size then according to that comparo the G35 is even closer. Hence we shouldn't compare the G35 to the 3-series as well right? "
I dont have a problem with that but the G isnt handicapped by weight since it weighs about the same as the 335i in spite of being larger. If you want to compare cars based on interior volumes the 3 shouldnt be compared with the G or CTS.
"Face it, the G35 is about the same size (with a bigger interior) as the CTS but offers better performance. Spin it anyway you want that you just can't spin the facts."
The fact of the matter is that ONE comparo said the G was the best handling car of that group. C&D believes the 3 series is the best handling of that group. If the G has a small handling advantage it is at the expense of ride quality and refinement and many would not be comfortable with that compromise. The facts are that the G has a small acceleration and absolute handling advtantage that wouldn't be noticeable to most drivers and the CTS has a styling, refinement, equipment, warranty and interior quality advantage that would be noticed by any driver. If I could not afford a CTS I may well consider a G35.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Are you blind?
"But driven with a purpose, the Infiniti is the most capable car in this test when it comes to handling"
"Our track numbers confirm this with a best-in-test performance on the skid pad with a 0.89g mark and in the slalom with a 69.4-mph mark"
If the above 2 quotes didn't tell you that the G35 is the superior car in performance then I don't know what will.
If the CTS is closer to the 5-series in size then according to that comparo the G35 is even closer. Hence we shouldn't compare the G35 to the 3-series as well right?
Face it, the G35 is about the same size (with a bigger interior) as the CTS but offers better performance. Spin it anyway you want that you just can't spin the facts.
|
|
|
|
1487
- Apr 7, 2008 5:51 am
(#55 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
Philadelphia PA United States of America |
|
|
"Looks like we can put that argument to rest for a while... "
I'm sure thats what you think. Your quotes didn't adress your claims that the G35 was prounounced a clearly superior car in the handling department. Considering the weight advantage it has over the CTS it is likely that some drivers feel it handles better but the true advantage it offers is value. The quotes prove that the G35 offers the most sports sedan for your money which is what I have said about 3 times thus far. Nothing new there. Also, no one ever said the CTS wasn't close to the size of the G35. What has been said is that the CTS is closer to the size of the 5 series and shouldnt be compared to the 3 series. The CTS and G35 are larger than the 3 series. when people justify the price premiums of German vehicles they talk about the "feel", refinement and interior quality that is lacking on cheaper Japanese competitors. The same applies here to the CTS vs the G35. There is nothing wrong with the G but the CTS is simply a more expensive car that feels more expensive. Close the doors on both cars and you will see what I mean.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You want quotes? Here ya go...
"Put simply, the 2007 Infiniti G35 wins this test because it's outstanding to drive and it gives you the most car for your money"
"The G's five-speed tranny not only responds quickest to the throttle, but also has the sharpest, most aggressive gearchanges (with rev-matched downshifts) of any automatic we've ever driven"
"But driven with a purpose, the Infiniti is the most capable car in this test when it comes to handling"
"Our track numbers confirm this with a best-in-test performance on the skid pad with a 0.89g mark and in the slalom with a 69.4-mph mark"
Oh and by the way, did someone say that the CTS is almost 5-series size but not the G35?
"This is the most spacious car in this test with 99.0 cubic feet of passenger volume, rear-seat legroom measures 34.7 inches and rear-seat headroom is 37.7 inches"
Looks like we can put that argument to rest for a while...
PS. The cars presented in this comparo are: 335i, G35, CTS DI, IS350 and C350.
Source: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=123235
|
|
|
|
1487
- Apr 6, 2008 6:05 am
(#53 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
Philadelphia PA United States of America |
|
|
"Personally (this is MY opinion), BMW still offers the best combination of refinement, performance and luxury."
As long as you are willing to pay top dollar. The 535 is more expensive than the CTS in the same way the CTS is more than the G35.
The G35 has been criticized (in both generations) for lacking refinement. While some may argue that having a little more sound and vibration adds to the excitement I think we need to remember than we are talking luxury cars and not sports compacts. I cant see engine noise and vibration being seen as nice in the CTS so I don't think its something the G35 should be given a pass on. The bottom line is the G35 is so cheap that its hard to rank it below the CTS in a comparo even if it is less refined and that is Infinitis strategy. If you want the most gadgets and performance for your money the G35 is your car. If you think it makes the CTS looks expensives try comparing it to German cars.
|
|
|
|
1487
- Apr 6, 2008 5:58 am
(#52 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
Philadelphia PA United States of America |
|
|
"I am glad to hear that. Then please provide some cold hard fact that shows the CTS is a better handler and has better driving dynamics than the G35. Let me give you a hint: Any comparo that involved the G35 and CTS would do."
You are so angry that you are confusing yourself. I never said the CTS was a better handling car, I disputed the comment about the G35 clearly being a better handling car. I am arguing that the CTS is as capable as the G35. Rankings in a comparison test take many factors into account. In C&D the CTS came in third because they hated the manual transmission, not because of handling deficiences. They clearly stated the styling and interior design was top notch as was the handling. Its hard for the CTS to beat the G35 when price is considered. If it was compared to the more expensive M35 or 535 it's price would not be a handicap. Since you are certain that the G has a definitive handling advantage why don't you provide some quotes to back that up.
|
|
|
|
estreka
- Apr 5, 2008 11:52 pm
(#51 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
subarctic north - Great Falls, MT |
|
|
I wonder if everyone will be this uptight after April 15th?
I haven't driven the current CTS, but I did have the pleasure of driving a CTS-V. I won't try to discern how the new generation compares to the last, but I can provide some insight. The CTS-V was a great car and a real spark for Cadillac. The power was awesome (too much for the chassis, imo) and it still rode like a luxury car (albeit a lot firmer). Downsizing to a V6 is the best thing Caddy could have done. The V8 was too torquey for the rear end. The front tires gripped well but the rears couldn't keep up.
I've ridden in a G35, but I've never driven one, so I'll keep those comments to myself.
====
If IL bloggers got together, we'd need boxing gloves. Or Nerf toys.
|
|
|
|
opfreak
- Apr 4, 2008 8:33 pm
(#50 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
if we all meet, all the cars would break down.
the import guys would scream the domestics suck. While the domestic guys would scream, your cars suck to.
no one would know about vw though, it would have electrical problems and not start :-p
|
|
|
|
|
|
altimadude00,
wanna know a secret ?
i'm only 13 years-old.
so i think it would pretty interesting to see everyone's face when they realize a 13 year-old reads this website and comments.
but i'm not sure how many female bloggers there are..
we will just have to wait until we all gather together in a room.
;)
and lvranger,
that's pretty funny.
:D
|
|
|
|
|
|
Carfreak-- It would be a disaster and here's why. A lot of people are entrenched in ther ideas and conceptions about automakers and of other bloggers here. There are also people here that make sure that their opinion overrides others and nullify other's opinions just because they don't have any "enthusiast" credentials or numbers backing it up. Basically, the enthusiasts would run the common people out of the room because they are "biased" and "uninformed."
By the way, I wonder how many female bloggers there are here. Would it be a room of all men?
|
|
|
|
|
|
I guess it all comes down to personal preference as each car mentioned above lays down similar performance numbers yet delivers that performance in different ways.
Both the CTS and G35 are great cars and both offer different characteristics, different levels of refinement, different levels of performance, different levels of driver feedback, and different levels of luxury.
Personally (this is MY opinion), BMW still offers the best combination of refinement, performance and luxury.
|
|
|
|
|
|
"wow.
can you imagine if we all met, and had a discussion about these blogs ?
now THAT would be interesting"
Paper headline next day: IL blogers meet, chaos ensues.
The story continues: Several philadelphians armed with nothing but vitriol incite mass riots...
;-)
|
|
|
|
toyzm
- Apr 4, 2008 3:52 pm
(#45 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
As a potential buyer, I've driven the both cars. (So I maybe biased, but not as much as someone in this blog.) I agree with most of professional comparison test reviews. G35 performance is better than CTS, but CTS offers better ride quality, quiet cabin, and rich feel. G35 gave me more straight line power but also artificially managed feel where I felt more directly attached to CTS though it's definitely heavy. The bottom line is G35 (Having started as performance sedan Skyline in Japan)is a performance car with luxury. CTS is a luxury car with performance. If you compare the invoice prices, the difference is about $7k and It's the matter of personal preference. I prefer better features and style over slightly better performance with 7k because, living in California, cooled seat and remote start features are much more valuable than .5 sec faster acceleration in traffic and rising gas price. Do I really want performance for money? Then I'll think about Civic SI, Mazdaspeed 3 or Lancer Evo X.
|
|
|
|
seven11
- Apr 4, 2008 3:43 pm
(#44 Total: 62)
|
|
|
|
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6147
"'The chassis is not quite as agile-feeling as the G35's,' noted Bornhop, 'but it needs to make no apologies on a twisty road, which is an amazing thing to say about a Cadillac.'"
"In transitions, it more seamlessly flows from one corner to the next, in a way the CTS approaches but can't quite match."
"'More willing to change direction at a moment's notice...its (G35) handling has no real vices,' opined Bornhop."
|
|
|
|
|
|
mercedesfan, your comments regarding driving dynamics are on the money, with the exception of one detail: drive a CTS back to back with a BMW (especially one with run-flat tires) or an Audi, and you'll no longer believe that the Europeans set the benchmark for refinement. The CTS is THAT good, and you really do have to drive it to believe it. It removes every last trace of crash-through and harshness from road irregularities of any size (note that this is not the same as completely smothering them like Cadillacs of old, or, say, the Lexus LS460), which in and of itself is not a particularly noteworthy accomplishment, but it does it with such grace (lack of float, dive, roll, squat) that the result is nothing short of astonishing. I literally can't remember the last time I was so impressed with a suspension (with the possible exception of the Mazda RX-8).
|
|
