|
|
If the Phil uses 800 watts continuously it could still easily be using 15amps or more during initial start up. I have an air compressor that uses 10amps when it is running, but draws up to 18amps when it is first started up. Compressors are ridiculously power hungry, and especially bad when they are first started up.
|
|
 |
|
bepperb
- Apr 21, 2008 9:05 am
(#16 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
If it used 800 watts, it wouldn't require a 220 volt 20 amp outlet (capable of supplying over 4400 watts). I know that's what the website says, but something is fishy.
Still, wish we could get a better measure of the electricity/ng used. 2.53 just doesn't seem that great.
|
|
|
|
comp386
- Apr 21, 2008 7:55 am
(#15 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
I still can't get to your high energy usage on phill. From the my phill website, I got that this thing uses 800 watts and fills 6.4 liters in 4 hours. You guys used up 200 liters equivalent of fuel which gets me to 125 hours of usage for phill. That comes to about 100 kWh for usage in a month which is about a quarter for what you guys registered. Still makes me think though that this entire concept is extremely inefficient.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Add on the $.50/gal or $1.00/gal tax that you pay on a gallon of gas now, and there is no savings at all.
|
|
|
|
bepperb
- Apr 18, 2008 1:48 pm
(#13 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
why should other natural gas users subsidize this type of thing (the discount you mentioned)? And why should all gasoline-burning road users subsidize your use of the road (no taxes paid)?
The nattygas users aren't subsidizing anything. Basically, the assumption is that the fixed costs of maitenance of the pipeline, meter rental, sg&a are all the same, and since you're using more product the price per unit goes down. It's the same deal they give businesses. A quantity discount if you will. They're hoping this catches on and they have more demand for their product.
The roads? No, the NG users should be taxed, and if they were (and probably will be if this catches on) the benifit would be even lower. Chalk one more up for a Hybrid instead.
$2.53? Really? That's not that great!
|
|
|
|
texases
- Apr 18, 2008 11:02 am
(#12 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
Yep, if I had decided to spend money to save money/gas, the hybrid makes much better sense all around.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Compared to a regular gasoline Civic:
CNG - same mpg, 30% cheaper fuel, limited range, have to buy a Phill or live and work and never stray far from home or a CNG retailer
Hybrid - 30% better mpg, fill it up anywhere, you can take it on a road trip, as traffic gets worse, MPG gets better
Both take several years (6-7 years?) to break even on the additional up front cost. By which time most of us will be trading in for something new anyway. Neither make financial sense yet, but if I felt the sudden urge to go green, I'd rather have the Hybrid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Comp386,
When the NG tank is full it’s at 3,600psi. If the PHIL needs a compressor to get to 3,600psi, then that is where all the electricity is going. Compressors can be one of the most power hungry devices that you can run.
|
|
|
|
texases
- Apr 18, 2008 6:24 am
(#9 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
Two questions: why should other natural gas users subsidize this type of thing (the discount you mentioned)? And why should all gasoline-burning road users subsidize your use of the road (no taxes paid)? Of course it's cheaper when it's subsidized up the wazoo!
|
|
|
|
comp386
- Apr 18, 2008 5:21 am
(#8 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
Are you guys sure this math is right? $40 worth of electricity to run the pump comes to 400 kWh at $.1 per kWh. That's enough to recharge the Tesla Roadster 8 times and travel well over 1000 miles.
|
|
|
|
chevy598
- Apr 17, 2008 7:05 pm
(#7 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
One note to the positive, the PHIL should qualify for some tax credits at the state level. My state has a couple different energy tax credits. I could save another $500 and maybe even $1,000 dollars on my state taxes. So on top of the Feds $1,000 credit the PHIL would only cost $2,500 to maybe even as low as $2,000. Some states might even get more or less.
John,
Is that home refueling unit discount a state or federal discount? Just wondering if everybody gets it or just you guys out in CA. It does make an at home PHIL a lot more attractive getting that discount.
I can’t see the government keeping that discount if NG cars ever went main stream and automakers were selling 6 million a year in the USA. There going to have to make up for lost gas tax revenue. As soon as people started buying on the internet and stopped buying at brick and mortar stores they have wanted to start a new tax. The government makes up for lost revenue by looking for new places to get it.
|
|
|
|
aspade
- Apr 17, 2008 5:36 pm
(#6 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
So you spent $3,000 to save 7 cents a gallon.
Only 1.3 million miles until PROFIT!
|
|
|
|
chevy598
- Apr 17, 2008 5:29 pm
(#5 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
If you live in a state that doesn't give that refuling discount I don't think it's worth it. Over $3,000 to install plus $2.53 a gallon seems pricey to me.
The price of NG can be costly in the winter especially when they have supply issues like they have had before. hypotheticaly if gas drops a $1.00gal, and they have a NG pipeline break in the winter it could end up costing more to use NG.
If you don't get that discount it only costs $.07 to $.32 more to fill up at a station. How can a fuel station sell that so cheap?
|
|
|
|
makabe
- Apr 17, 2008 3:54 pm
(#4 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
Do you also get the clean air vehicle carpool lane stickers on the Civic GX?
|
|
|
|
estreka
- Apr 17, 2008 3:03 pm
(#3 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
subarctic north - Great Falls, MT |
|
|
That's fantastic. I'm assuming this car will remain in the LT fleet for a few years?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wow, I had no idea that electricity was such a big part of the cost of this system.
|
|
|
|
ewilfong
- Apr 17, 2008 1:35 pm
(#1 Total: 17)
|
|
|
|
Very cool. And there's also something to be said for the convenience of gassing up your car at home.
|
|
