Long-Term Road Tests

Thanks for the info all. I agree that long-distance towing coverage would be a must.
 
So the California HOV stickers are maybe/maybe not going to expire. That kind of sucks. The HOV sticker would be the main reason for me to buy this car. If it crapped out in two years I would be pretty bummed.

Hey all, John O'Dell here -- the office's primary Civic GX driver -- with a few answers.
 
1: HOV Stickers. As has been said, the GX gets a white "clean air" sticker, not a yellow hybrid sticker, and there's no limit on the number of white stickers that can be issued. They could expire a few years down the road, but the state is expected to keep 'em going (unless Calif. turns all HOV lanes into toll lanes to try to fill the growing hole in the state budget!.
  
2: RE Phill. We did some calculations a few postings back (there are several in the longterm blog's GX section dealing with our purchase and installation of the Phill) and figured that it probably won't pay for itself unless we keep the car a lot longer than the usual three years.
Right now, I'm calculating fuel costs at $2.04 a gallon-equivalent, versus anywhere from $2.60-$2.85 at retail CNG pumps around Southern California.
 
3: Tax and other rebates: There's a $4,000 federal tax credit for buying a GX, and there's a $1,000 credit for buying and installing a Phill home fuel unit. Some states may offer state tax credits as well (California doesn't, but Colorado's is almost $6,000 for a Civic GX!)And if you live in an area of So. Calif. regulated by the South Coast Air Quality Management District you can get a $2,000 discount on the Phill -- as long as the grant $$ holds out. There may be other regional discounts/rebates I don't know about, but the people at FuelMaker, the Canadian (Toronto) company that makes the Phill, keep tabs on that sort of stuff -- it helps them sell the thing -- and are very helpful with paperwork etc.
 
4: Convenience of home refueling. Thie Phill is slooooooow. It actually takes more than 19 hours to refill an empty tank. I commute about 120 miles a day and use roughly 4 gallons (actually gallon-equivalents), so "topping up" is a 10-12 hour process, which means I can refill half-a-tank overnight if I start pumping soon as I get home from work. One benefit of the slow fill is that the compressed gas is packed into the tanks at higher density than when fast-filling at a retail station, so you effectively get more energy -- thus more mileage -- per gallon-equivalent.

The white HOV stickers (what the GX use) may expire in 2010 or 2011...or not. They are a separate pool than the yellow hybrid stickers. No limits on the number of white HOV stickers.
 
And do be careful about that $4k federal rebate on the GX! Depending on your tax situation, you could see less of it than expected. On the other hand, there's a CA state tax credit for IIRC $3k when purchasing the GX.
 
One more thing to add to your shopping list when buying a GX: long-range towing insurance. Running out of gas (or finding out that a station is out of commission) can be a big deal.

Ah. I was wrong. Thanks for the correction on the HOV stickers. :o)
 
Glad to see the wolves haven't jumped on ya yet. I'm sure James has some weapons over there you can fend 'em off with.

Suby -
Capt O'Dell said currently no limit on the number of carpool stickers for AT-PZEV. I believe Prius has exhausted its stickers in CA, but not sure.
Roger that - in Riz's neighborhood.
 
Regards,
Snake Doc

I believe it has something to do with the allotment of HOV stickers a state (e.g., California) gives a manufacturer. I know current sales of Toyota Hybrids in California don't include HOV stickers. Used hybrids with those stickers are actually commanding a sometimes hefty premium. Let's just call it a "quality of life" tax. j/k
 
I had "heard" the Honda sticker allocation was running out awhile ago. Please take that with a grain of salt.
 
OT - Snake Doc, are you James' (Riswick) neighbor?

Thanks guys. I'm going to keep looking into this. Anyone know if the HOV stickers expire at some point? Or are they good forever?
 
I actually live near a few commercial stations (checked some cool webpage.) So I could hold off on Phill for now.
 
Looks like the G-man offers a $4k tax credit for this car. That would bring the sticker to a nice $21k.

We've got a GX, and it does work VERY well for commuting. Out on the freeway at cruising speed and with a light foot on the accelerator, we've gotten up to 300 miles per tank.
 
The SCAQMD has (had?) incentives for purchasing or leasing a Phill. You might want to check with them first to find out if that's still available. There is a federal tax credit for installing the equipment. But watch out--if you are anywhere close to paying Alternative Minimum Tax, because that will limit how much you get from those juicy-looking federal rebates for the car and Phill.

johnmarco -
  
Yeah, it's a car to consider - but mainly for commuting: the range is ~200mi; my colleague Capt O'Dell said that to fill a nearly empty tank by the morning from his in-garage Phill tank, he must refuel immediately upon arriving at his home. You'll probably need another vehicle if you don't already have one - just in case. There may be some positive tax implications for the Phill station that could offset that investment. But who knows - you may live near a commercial CNG station.
  
Good luck,
Snake Doc

Thanks SnakeDoctor. Maybe I should actually consider this car. My commute is about to go from 8 miles to 35 miles on everyone's favorite 405. That sticker would be sweet.

730 Theres nothing wrong with the weather. Theres more news coverage of bad weather these days, doesn't mean that theres more or less.
 
In fact how many bad hurricans did we have last year?
 
And 'OPfluff' so cute.
 
Hey, if you want to think humans are gods and can control weather go ahead.
 
"And don't say Gore is full of it. It's better to be on the safer side"
 
He is full of it, Al gore is a lunatic liar. He created a fiction movie, and called it a documentary.
 
Better to be on the safer side? ya like the saying goes, the road to hell is paved in good intentions...
 
We have proof our 5% CO2 contributation is changing anything in the world.
 
But the supports of that, will deny that taking 20-30% of our corn crop has anything to do with the current food problems in the world.
 
Sorry, when it comes to spending billion of tax pay dollars, to work on 'fatih' is something the goverment shouldnt do.

Hdriver? Is that Horny driver? Thanks for berating someone. It was entertaining.
 
Like Green Porn, I had been pushing for the past 18 years to use the word pop instead of the word soda but soon found out that no one gave a crap about it. Green Porn, go claim your medal at the local library.
 
But don't you f#@$ing tell me there's nothing wrong with the weather these days. I can't remember seeing so many natural disasters pummeling people worldwide just two decades ago. And don't say Gore is full of it. It's better to be on the safer side. Opfluff, I bet you are in that 15% minority group that still thinks Bush is doing a good job. You go man!

If, or when I move into a hybred car it will be because of the price of gas, that's it.
 
Because, in the words of George Carlin, "The Planet Is Fine"
 
http://www.jibjab.com/view/122257

johnmarco -
  
Thanks for your comments.
Civic GX is classified as an AT PZEV (Advanced Tech Partial Zero Emission Vehicle). My colleague Capt O'Dell said there is no limit to the number of carpools stickers available in California for this class of vehicle.
Regards,
Snake Doc

Opfreak, agreed, the earth naturally produces 150 billion tons of CO2. However, it also naturally absorbs much of this back through plants and even the ocean (see carbon cycle). If this were not the case, imagine how many tons of CO2 would be produced without absorption during the 4.5 billion years the earth has existed. This cycle tries to keep everything in equilibrium (a common trait in the physical sciences). But, in approximately 200 years, humans have sharply increased the amount of CO2 we have produced. I say sharply because again the earth is 4.5 BILLION years old. Moreover, the 5% (your figure) is better than the interest I get at the bank. The number is huge. This 5%, which cannot be absorbed naturally, throws things off a bit and the backlog of pollutants can potentially lead to climate change.
 
With all of this said, I still believe methane is a far worse offender than CO2. Therefore, as has been widely reported, eating meat is actually worse than car pollution when it comes to climate change. Cut back on both and do your best to have a smaller impact on the environment. Likewise, the environment will have a smaller impact on you. Easy as that. Just please stop assuming we have nothing to do with this.

The GX is not a player in the practical green car game, just a technology trial, like the various hydrogen-fueled cars. Hybrids are the only current option, and many are bought by those wanting to either save money or direct their money to others than oil producers. The TCH and HCH are selling well, despite their failure to make an obvious statement.

greenpony - if you've been using it for a while, then good for you. The media has recently done a 180 what langauge they use. Control the language control the debate.
 
The issue I have with 'climate change' is that theres nothing humands can do to stop climate change, it will just happen.
 
And I know alot about global warming and the hysteria its developed all around the world. Yet with all the noise I just learned something new today:
 
The earth naturally contributes about 150billion tons of C02, man creates about 8.
 
So our total contribuation is 5% a year.
 
so in the next total year, (lets assume we 'freeze' todays numbers). the planet itself will generate, 3000billion tons of C02, we will contribute 160 billion.
 
even if we grow 5% a year, that means we will contribute 260 billion tons over 20 years vs 3000 of the earth.
 
And our percentage will grow form ~ 5% to ~13%.
 
To some that might sound huge, but you have to remeber that in the atmosphere, c02 is a minor component of earth temperatures. On the order of less then 1%.
 
Just futher information that we are wasting time on a problem thats blow way out of proportion.

Anyone perusing the "Commentary" on wmd.com will easily see what their bias is... certainly not fair and balanced.
 
Temperature readings aren't only made from airport weather stations, but sensors and satellites around the world. I'm sure accelerated glacial recession and polar ice melt is due to all the pavement at O'Hare and other weather station sites.
 
There are many cycles involved in climate. One major cycle, El Nino/La Nina impacts ocean temperatures. We're just now learning how to weight short-term cycles like those, with longer-term trends like climate change, to improve climate models.
 
If it's blasphemy to believe that humans may be causing global warming via CO2 release, that implies that it's divinely dictated that we can't/don't cause it. Did I miss a Commandment somewhere?
 
Actually, there are many examples of human impact on large natural systems. Even your sited weather station link is referring to the Heat Island Effect whereby large metro areas affect temperature over hundreds of square miles and even initiate thunderstorms. More than a few rivers have large dead zones at their mouths where marine life cannot live because of low oxygen content (likely due to nitrogen and other pollution runoff). We also had the holes in the ozone layer excarbated by CFC usage and whose growth is apparently slowing down since much of the world has banned CFC's.
 
But it's a lot easier to ignore all of these instead of having to take any responsibility for our actions or, heaven forbid, have to change. As the tobacco companies told us all those years, the science is just hogwash. There's no way a tiny thing like a cigarette could kill a person.

hdriver
 
Thank you for berating me. I will retype what I was meaning to say so that a third grader will read it. Hopefully you can follow along.
 
The Honda Insight was a futuristic looking green car. Because it was so futuristic, it may have scared off buyers from buying it because it looked too strange.
 
The Honda Civic GX looks like any other Civic on the road. Unless you look at the badge, you wouldn't know that this car is saving the planet.
 
Which brings me to my argument. A green-mobile SHOULD look futuristic and capture the attention of the public. The Prius has done that by looking weird enough to stand out, but still be livable day to day.
 
People walk by a Prius and know that the driver is responsible. People walking by the Civic will just think it's another Civic.

I like the Civic the way it is: normal. I don't want some special badging on my car so that everyone knows I'm driving a unique vehicle. I'm not out to impress anyone.
  
johnmarco, your "poor Honda" comments were funny! Thanks.
  
"Global climate change" is the phrase I've been pushing for the last decade (although it's only a coincidence that some of the media have adopted the same phrase) because I believe it more accurately describes the situation. "Global warming" has the unfortunate connotation that every square inch of earth is getting hotter, which is not true. Like txmatt1 said, there are areas in the world where the temperature is actually cooling. There are areas where rainfall has increased, and areas where rainfall has decreased. Or where desert has grown, and shrunk. Or where forests have expanded, or receded. We can't even accurately predict the weekend's weather, let alone the temperature and rainfall of your neighborhood ten years from now. Climate change? Undoubtedly. The climate is always in flux. Global warming? Misleading.