2009 Honda Civic brochure scans up on the Net

Wow! It looks just like a Honda Civic!

Honda is putting undue effort into grill decoration these days. The one pictured above has a wing-ish quality. I don't mind all that much, but the whole exercise seems a bit unnecessary.

- Minor face and tail lift for all Civics.
- A few more standard features on EX/EX-L/Si/Hybrid and Navi models.
- New alloy wheel design.
- 2 new trim levels.
- Si gains standard for lamps.

Unfortunately for the ethusiast the Si it gets no bump in power whereas the majority of its competition already had much more power or just recieved a substantial increase in power. Honda bring the damn 225hp JDM Civic Type R to the U.S!

hondacura4,

You seem to be in the know on what Honda's doing. Can you speculate as to why they aren't offering direct injection on their engine line up?

Also, what is different about the Type R engine? I don't know anything about it? Is it larger displacement or some other difference that allows it to generate more power?

Also do you know if Honda intends to keep making a Civic Si when they redesign the Civic for 2011?

Just a fan of Honda engineering and I'm wondering what you've heard.

Wow, I am 100% underwhelmed.

"You seem to be in the know on what Honda's doing. Can you speculate as to why they aren't offering direct injection on their engine line up?"

They have offered and I believe still do offer DI on a small 4cyl engine in other markets. Im not sure why they havent spread the technology across the board as the benefits are certainly there. As of now Im thinking Honda thinks they will have better results with the new a-VTEC system that should be out in the next couple of years.

Honda stated the new VTEC system will add a 9-13% gain in efficiency depending on engine. The system is very similar to the Infinti 3.7Ls VVEL and BMWs Valvetronic systems but Hondas system is much lighter, simpler, and uses less parts than both. It also can be used in high RPM applications whereas Valvetronic cant. Im not sure if Infinitis VVEL can be used in a high RPM application.

Advanced VTEC or a-VTEC:

An advanced VTEC engine, dramatically reduces pumping losses by controlling engine aspiration through continuously variable control over the amount of intake valve lift and phase of valve switchover timing. With innovative valve control and control of the length of the intake manifold, combustion efficiency will be increased by 13% compared to model year 2005 i-VTEC DOHC engines.

The system is actually already supposed to be in production on certain current 4cyl engines but the deadline was knocked back because of a few bugs. I would look for the system in a couple of years on DOHC 4,6,8 and 10cly engines!

"Also, what is different about the Type R engine? I don't know anything about it? Is it larger displacement or some other difference that allows it to generate more power?"

2008 JDM Honda Civic Type-R Sedan
Displacement: 2.0L
Compression: 11.7:1
Power: 225hp @ 8000 rpm
Torque: 158 ft-lbs@ 7000 rpm
Redline: 8600 rpm

--------------------

2008 USDM Civic Si Sedan/Coupe
Displacement: 2.0L
Compression: 11.0:1
Power: 197hp @ 7800
Torque: 139 ft-lbs @ 6200 rpm
Redline: 8200 rpm

Crowb, on paper it looks as if the Civic Type R 2.0L is just "peakier" as the power and torque peaks higher in the rev range vs the 2.0L in the USDM Civic Si. The truth is the JDM engine makes more power EVERYWHERE in the rev range not just in the peak power. Midrange torque is the biggest surpise as its about 20ft-lbs stronger and its 10-18 ft-lbs stronger across the majority of the rev band.

Mechnically they are of course closely related as both are from the same "K series" line of Honda 4cyls. Im not sure of all the detailed enhancements the JDM Type R K20 has over the USDM Si K20 but going by past Type R engines I can give you some information off the top of my head.

- Higher flowing intake manifold
- Larger camshafts
- Higher flowing head
- Higher flowing exhaust
- Higher flowing exhaust manifold
- Higher compression pistons
- Strengthened and lightened engine internals
- Full balance and blueprint
- Hand assembled
- Upgraded oil pump
- Increased redline
- Increased HP
- Increased TQ
- ECU tweaks (fuel maps/i-VTEC tuning ETC ETC)

Here are a couple videos I found on the JDM Civic Type R sedan. Even though its "just a Civic" its an impressive performer. The chassis setup on this car is simply outstanding! These videos certainly give you an idea of the significant performance advantages the Japanese CTR has over the Euro CTR and our USDM Civic Si. The last video compares the JDM CTR and the JDM Honda S2000. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHNEG09uXXo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P07Cy9UgGTI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW7Vw-A2TX4

Yes, Honda definately had Direct Injection on the Honda Stream's K20 engine a few years back. I'm not sure why they didn't run with it. But I'm not sure about a lot of things about Honda (like their transmission department).

But seeing that they're selling 30,000 Civic SI's a year now (15 sedan, 15 coupe) I would be amazed if it wasn't in the new model in 2011. And despite being down on power, it's down on price and up on economy, so it kinda has it's own little niche even if it's not necessarily performance. And I thought that Type-R would be on the Mugen.....

And I know, I know, don't mess with a best seller. But this is the most underwhelming MMC I've seen in awhile. All I wanted was a R20 or K20 on the EX line and I would have bought. So now I debate an SI or wait for the 2010 Mazda3.

Thanks, for the info Hondacura.

I had heard that Honda had offered/does offer direct injection on models in Japan and Europe. You assumed correctly, in that I was wondering why it hasn't come to the states. If I had to guess it might be because Honda has no problem meeting their efficiency/emissions requirements without it. Adding it would only increase cost and complexity, and since they are currently the most fuel efficient automaker in America, why spend the money?

I've also heard of the A-vtec system. I'm really excited about the possibilities there. I just hope they'll get it in production soon! Again I come back to DI though. Why not combine that with A-vtec? I assume again it has to do with cost and complexity.

Thanks for the video links as well. I will check those out later today.

"And I know, I know, don't mess with a best seller. But this is the most underwhelming MMC I've seen in awhile. All I wanted was a R20 or K20 on the EX line and I would have bought. So now I debate an SI or wait for the 2010 Mazda3."

I agree somewhat as the old Civic Ex's always had more power than the LX and DX models. The current R18 140hp 4 isnt bad but its not as playful or eager as past base Honda 4cyls, reminds me aof a Toyota 4 to be honest. The one thing that really hurts its performance is the looooooooong gearing (5AT) which of course is beneficial at cruising speeds for superior fuel economy. Ive never driven a Civic 1.8 5MT so I cant comment on that car.

Honda obviously wanted to keep costs down and efficiency up and judging by the Civics current market position, inconsistent fuel prices and the fact that its one of the better cars in its segment simply validates Hondas decision.

Looks pretty much the same as the 08 to me. At least they didn't further beat it with the ugly stick like the rest of the newest Hondas and Acuras.

I had heard some early reports that the refreshed Civic would be given projector beam headlamps and LED taillamps. It's pretty tough to tell from the pictures if that went through...Does anyone know?