IS THER A RULE TO FOLLOW- OR ARE EXCESSIVE MARK-UPS ALL OVER THE PARK???

I strongly disagree with the original posting by philip. I have purchased two of my last three cars as used vehicles in two different cities - Phoenix/Scottsdale and Austin (Texas) with prices below the Blue Book and Edmunds.com estimates for the car value. In both cases the dealers were "no haggle" ones. Both cars were mid to high end vehicles rated also very well on the reliability lists
 
So, I have had very good experiences in buying used cars from dealers.
 
I have also purchased used cars from private individuals.

guenovnd: Did you haggle on the no-haggle price, or was the no-haggle price just that good? I find the dealer prices in my area well ($8-10,000) above the Kelley price for, say, a 2003 Infiniti G35. Most of these cars are lease returns that may or may not have been bought at auction, so I *know* they didn't pay anywhere near what they are asking for them. I've found a car I like and want to deal on it, but not sure how to approach the no-haggle guys. I'm considering just saying "I know that's intended to be a no-haggle price, but if you want me to buy this car, you'll need to put a different no-haggle price on it." The other thing I could do is negotiate an inflated trade-in for my present car, but I don't like my chances there. Advice? Edmunds guys, what do you suggest?