Face-Off Tournament: Mazdaspeed 3 versus Honda Civic Si
Welcome to Round 2 of the Face-Off Tournament and the Battle for the Land of the Rising Sun. Turbocharger versus VTEC. Brute force versus scalpel precision. Mazda versus Honda. Hot hatches may have originated in Europe, but Japan has carried the mantle through the past three decades here in North America. Some of our favorites over the years have gone to the great garage in the sky, but today's batch would certainly make its illustrious ancestors proud. The two that have reached the Eastern Division final are two of our favorites and judging by the votes, yours as well.
From the Non-Turbo Japan Conference comes the Honda Civic Si, one of the two cars in the tourney that isn't a hatch, but one that's undeniably hot. Defending the Si will be Senior Automotive Editor and Face-Off rookie Brent Romans who'll be thrown into the fire against Vice Admiral of Vehicle Testing and Face-Off villain Mike Magrath. His Mazdaspeed3 defeated the Subaru WRX in Round 1. We'll see if it/he faces stiffer competition in Round 2.
The winner of this will Face-Off the winner of the Western Division final to determine the winner of the Travolta-Cage Face-Off Cup. And remember, your votes determine who gets there.
Opening Statements
Mike Magrath for the Mazdaspeed 3
Recently I was fortunate enough to visit Surprise(!), Arizona. Turns out the surprise is old people. Lots of them. Surprise is essentially a retirement community with a zip code. There's no public school, there's no hip dance club, there's not even an arcade. As such, the Honda Civic Si I was driving through Surprise was a bit of an oddity rolling amongst the Crown Vics, Lucernes and street-driven golf carts.
Want to know what else was a surprise? Watching grandpa pull away from me at a stop light, grandma by his side knitting placidly, while their Old Aurora barely broke a sweat. Now, friends, don't get me wrong, the free-revving VTEC mill in the Civic Si is a purist's dream. But in the real world. there just isn't enough torque to get the job done. It's not enough on hills, it's not enough when passing and it's not enough to make for a compelling car these days.
Pine all you want about purity and connection, but when push comes to shove, the MazdaSpeed3 is all the track-day-toy you could hope for in the segment, and it won't leave you sucking grandpa's fumes from every stop light.*
*Unless grandpa is in the Mazda with you. In that scenario, no manner of vehicular conveyance can save you.
Brent Romans for the Civic Si
OK, let's get this out of the way: Yes, the Honda Civic Si is a gutless wonder, and it gets thumped by the Mazdaspeed 3 in terms of acceleration. Skidpad and slalom are in the MS3's favor, too. But as the Civic's defense attorney, I'm here to tell you that this underdog might just overcome its obvious disadvantages. Because, you know, America loves underdogs.
First of all, there's more to hot hatch driving enjoyment than just the numbers. Remember the glory days of the VTEC engines in the Acura Integra GS-R and Type R? That frantically revving nature lives on in the Civic Si. Like James Brown singing "Give It Up Or Turnit A Loose," this car has soul. Meanwhile, the Civic Si is a very fun and sophisticated partner on back roads thanks to its nimbleness and quick steering.
I'll also point out that the Civic Si is typically cheaper to buy and gets better fuel economy than the MS3. It's also available in two different available body styles. I'll even submit that in coupe form, the Civic is better looking inside and out. So, from the practical to the subjective, the underdog Civic Si can actually out-smart the MS3.
Rebuttals
Magrath:
No, Keira Knightly (*swoon*) is a gutless wonder, the Civic Si is a fat guy on a Vespa, wheezing around until the engine climbs past the hurdle of fully overcoming Newton's First Law. The glory days? Yeah, those cars didn't have 72 air bags or any of the other fun-depleting, weight enhancing safety regs we "enjoy" today. They were also loud thanks to the lack of sound dampening and thinness of the, well, everything. Less power was OK. That's not okay today. Not only because Accords and Auras are rolling around with more than 250 ponies, or that the base Camaro comes with 300 hp, that sort of thing isn't OK today because it doesn't have to be.
Honda's playing a risky game by appealing only to the Honda faithful. But then again, it worked for the Corvette, it still has leaf springs and people buy that. Me? I want to have my cake and eat it, too.
Romans:
I believe you wrote earlier that the Mazda rode like a shopping cart
. This time, you're calling it a track-day toy. Sweet, just want I want as a daily driver. When it comes down to it, the Honda is simply more polished - and nowhere as slow as you're making it out to be. You can be an F1 driver in the Civic if you want to -- just live your life above 6,000 rpm. Yes it can be loud up there, but so is a race car.
Yet its daily driver stuff like commuting to work that the Civic just makes more sense. And you know what? Grandma can beat me to the next stop light in his Aurora if he really wants to. I'm really OK with that.
So which car gets to the Face-Off Tournament finals?
Mazda. USDM Si is a cruel joke.
Mazda MS-3. Even the Sentra SE-R V Spec will spank the Civic going up hill or for passing power.
Still, the Civic SI is a good car but is no challenge to the MS-3.
The Si is nice, but in this category it's gotta be the MS3.
MS3.
MS3 all the way, Si just doesn't have the guts.
One vote for the MS3, even though I like the Civic Si. I just like the MS3 much more.
Also, the grille on the 2009 Honda Civic Si is nasty.
I vote Si.
I own one, so my heart says I have to vote for the Honda. But all of the logic points to the MS3.
Oh well.
+1 Masdaspeed3.
Tough vote, I like both. Gotta go with more power, torque steer and all.
MS3.
Civic Si.
The 3's seating position is too high to feel sporty.
Sorry, but Mazda has ruled the FWD category since the Mazdaspeed Protege trumped the aging Integra Type R. Only recently has it been dethroned by the Cobalt SS. As a former Integra owner and still fan, I want to side with Honda, but facts are facts... Mazdaspeed 3 wins! If only we got another Type R in the US, Honda might have retained my business...
I've driven both several times, and I'll have to go with the Si. I love the crazy dash layout, the slick six-speed, the lack of torque steer, and the fact that it sounds like a car and not a Hoover.
I'm gonna vote Si, even though it's watered-down compared to the JDM Type-R. Still, the 8K RPM redline is addicting and the character of the power delivery is a thrill.
MS3. Sorry Honda you have lost the plot, the reign of VTEC is over.
I vote Civic Si, better fuel economy and reliability. I've heard of many MS3s blowing turbos/engines.
ms3
Speed 3
Civic Si, please
I vote Civic Si out of spite for losing the first round to the MS3.
Hahaha, Mark!
Mazda, the Buck Rodgers interior of the Civic would be a deal killer, even if the rest of the car wasn't already inferior.
Mazdaspeed3. The Civic Si is NOT in the same league as the MS3. It would be more competitive against the base Mazda 3s. Mazdaspeed, with their flagship MS3, has established itself as a true enthusiast brand in the budget segment.
Honda hasn't impressed me in a long time. I think they spend all their money on their Acura line.
On a side note: I think it's stupid and arbitrary to compare cars based on geographical regions. If you disregard the contintent of origin, the only competitors to the Mazdaspeed3 here are the '09 WRX and Cobalt SS -- Anyone who thinks the GTI or SI or the freaking Mini is on the same level as the MS3, obviously hasn't driven an MS3.
Seriously? MS3 in spades.
"I've driven both several times, and I'll have to go with the Si. I love the crazy dash layout, the slick six-speed, the lack of torque steer, and the fact that it sounds like a car and not a Hoover"
there is no torque steer lol because honda doesnt know what torque i dont care if you have 1000hp if you got no torque you got no nothing