Face-Off Tournament: Volkswagen GTI versus Mini Cooper S
Hot hatches originated in Europe and continue to dominate the car enthusiast culture over there. Sadly, we only get a tiny sample (pun intended) of Europe's many hot hatch contenders, so this tournament is devoid of such hotties as the Ford Focus ST and RS, Renault Clio 197 and Twingo RS and Fiat 500 Abarth. Yet, we still get two of the best. One is credited with starting the hot hatch category back in 1984, but the other is a descendant of the original front-wheel-drive, fun-to-drive, tiny hatchback. Who gets more credit? We'll leave that up to you.
Hailing from Germany is the Volkswagen GTI, which shall be defended here by Automotive Editor James Riswick. It is about to be replaced by a sort-of-new sixth-generation model, but the current car has lost little of its appeal. Hailing from England with help from Germany is the Mini Cooper S, whose Union Jack shall be carried by Associate Editor Josh Sadlier. Its appeal transcends the typical car enthusiast demographic arguably more than any other contender in this tournament. You don't have to be a car nut to know what a Mini is.
Remember, you decide who wins. The car with the most votes goes on to meet the Chevrolet Cobalt SS in the Western Division final.
Opening Statements
James Riswick for the Volkswagen GTI
I can't bash the Mini Cooper, I like it too damn much. But sometimes you have to contemplate practical realities, so I'm going at this Face-Off with the perspective of purchasing a fun vehicle to drive every day. Which will be fun on a mountain road but also liveable in traffic and on road trips? Which will make me smile, but not make my passengers cringe when sitting in the back seat? Of all eight cars in the tournament, the answer is the Volkswagen GTI.
Bolstered by three body styles -- three-door hatch, five-door hatch and four-door sedan (the Jetta-based GLI) -- the VW offers a spacious interior for when the parents come to town or I decide to purchase a Torbjorn or a Mablias from Ikea. And unlike the five-door Clubman, those extra doors aren't vestigial. In every day driving, the GTI offers a smooth Germanic ride with a quiet cabin constructed of the nicest materials in the class. The GTI feels like a premium car.
But enough with Spock's Guide to Logical Car Buying. The V-Dub is still a lot of fun. Its turbocharged four banger produces 200 horsepower and 207 pound-feet of torque - enough to get a two-door GTI from zero to 60 mph in the same time as the Mini. This is a sweet engine bolstered by a pleasant six-speed manual gearbox (my preference) or VW's dual-clutch automated manual transmission, which is an excellent performance alternative for folks who can't be bothered with a clutch pedal. Out on the winding roads, the GTI isn't the handler the Mini is, but its got enough precision and composure to have an honest shot of keeping its nose to the Mini's twin Coke cans. Maybe this betrays the hot hatch mission, but I'm willing to sacrifice some fun for some practicality, refinement and comfort.
Josh Sadlier for the Mini Cooper S
Riswick said it himself: he likes the Cooper S. Who wouldn't? It's a roadgoing version of the proverbial barrel of laughs. The GTI is smooth, sophisticated, urbane - the metrosexual of the hot-hatch crowd. In other words, it hates fun. The Mini, conversely, is your own personal carnival ride, a tireless playmate that all but wakes you up in the morning with eager yips and sloppy licks on the face. It may be smaller than the GTI, but come on, there's plenty of hatchback functionality here for most people's needs. And as an added bonus, it most definitely does not come with plaid upholstery on its cheekily upright seats.
That's right, the GTI's decked out in plaid unless you tell VW otherwise. It also shares its chassis and powertrain with the fashion-accessory Audi A3. The GTI's a bit sharper, sure, but it still bounces and squeals its way through turns that the Cooper S attacks with negligible body roll and ridiculous grip. As for powertrain highlights, there aren't any: the slushbox-substitute DSG is for sissies, the standard six-speed manual is calamari compared to the Mini's wonderfully fluid and precise gearbox, and while VW's familiar 2.0-liter turbo four has a nice broad powerband, it lacks the exuberance of the Mini's masterful 1.6-liter twin-scroll turbo.
Put it this way: the GTI is for people who contemplate buying a sport compact while sipping a soy latte or trying on designer jeans. The Mini Cooper S is the real deal.
Rebuttals
Riswick:
As a descendant of Scots, I have no problem with plaid. In fact, I'm attracted to the GTI because of its standard upholstery. In double fact, I wish there were additional plaid seating options that represented different family tartans. "I can't decide if I want Candy White with MacDougal or MacDonald." But for argument's sake, let's say I hated the plaid seats (which are an homage to the original 1984 GTI). At least I could get rid of them with a simple leather upholstery choice. There's no way to rid the Mini of its preposterous audio and climate controls, designed for no other reason than to look interesting. They couldn't fit the volume knob inside the pie plate speedometer so they just stuck it six inches south of everything else. There are no such issues in the GTI. It's simple, it's classy, it works. The stereo also works, which is more than can be said for the Mini and its speakers encased in Jell-O.
There's no way the VW GTI can compete with the Mini when it comes to character. The Cooper has it in spades ... and hearts, clubs and diamonds. Whether it's the hyper-quick electric steering that wrenches the wheel out of your hands under heavy throttle or the Puerto Rican flag decal glued to its roof, the Mini certainly has character. As I said, I appreciate that character. But I'd end up opting for the more civil, yet still capable GTI instead. Plaid seats and all.
Sadlier:
Yeah, I could do without the Mini's cheesy dashboard design, though by now I'm used to its ergonomic quirks. But at least it doesn't look like it was lifted straight out of a Jetta. Some might say the Mini is trying too hard to be cool, but with apologies to my plaid-peddling colleague, the GTI isn't trying at all. As for the stereo, I wonder if Mr. Burberry here has ever heard the Mini's optional 10-speaker Harman Kardon setup. I haven't, since BMW refuses to send us a Mini so equipped, but I'm guessing it's a huge improvement -- and good sound quality would boost the Mini's civility index significantly.
In sum, the Mini's the class act here not simply because of its "character," but also because there's real sporting substance behind that adorable mug. Like a pint-sized M3, the Cooper S hits all the right notes in hard driving while maintaining considerable curb appeal for the coffee-shop set. Its overall excellence makes foibles like torque steer and excessive road noise seem almost endearing. That's the mark of a great car. Plaid is not.
So, which car wins? Which would you buy?
- Posted by
- James Riswick June 18, 2009, 6:00 AM
- Permalink
- Categories:
- Face-Off, MINI, Volkswagen
Mini for pure fun factor.
I love both cars, but I'll cast my vote for the MINI. I love my MINI.
As a former board member of the Chicago MINI Motoring Club, I can't say I am objective.
1 vote for the MINI.
I was a former VW Golf owner many years ago and is hard for me to choose the... MINI. Yes, MINI MINI MINI.
MINI IS FUN! NO MAS TO SAY!
It's a close one for me, but I vote for the MCS, too. I think it has a greater FTD (fun-to-drive) factor. I also think it looks better (Clubman included).
The sad thing is I've never driven either. :(
"The sad thing is I've never driven either. :("
suby....brutal!
GTI all the way. In terms of day-to-day driveability and price you can't beat it.
This is tough, but I'll give a razor thin edge to GTI.
The GTI may have body roll, but its completely controlled. As for grip, I do believe it equal or better than the mini. The Mini is more fun, but rides badly and really is just a 2 seater. In that case, I'll pick a miata over a mini for fun factor. The nice thing about the mini is gas mileage, but it does require premium...
GTI wins. The only chance to take out the Cobalt SS, as well. Cobalt SS will cream either car in performance, but the GTI can take it in the "which i would buy" category. It is a car that can do it all... be your family of 5 car, your comfy luxurious commuter, and your nimble high capable track car.
mini
The GTI's cabin is much more comfortable place to spend time than the Mini's. This is especially important if you have a long commute or regularly take road trips. My vote goes for the GTI.
I'm a fan of the plaid.
I stand with my man Jriz on this one.
GTI
I've driven both and love both. If I were forced to make a decision, I'd have to go with the GTI.
Not to split "hares", but the Rabbit GTI debuted for the 1983 model year.
I'd go with the GTI
The GTI is the overall better car, but this is a hot hatch competition. For its weight/size, the GTI has too little power......and it's too refined to be a hot hatch.
MINI wins hands down!
"Not to split "hares", but the Rabbit GTI debuted for the 1983 model year."
The Golf GTI actually debuted in 1975.....it just got to the US too late in '83!
If I were voting with my own dollars it would be the GTI. I get that the mini is edgier and sportier but I think that any category of car with the exception of an all out sports car, the best car is the best rounded out car. Since hot hatches are meant to be crazy fun practical daily drivers, the GTI wins in this respect.
And the GTi being metrosexual... I think the mini is the more metro car here, especially in the clubman version! I seriously could not see myself being able to drive a mini without tinting the windows limo black and telling people it's my wifes car!
blackadder,
I was referring to its U.S. debut.
Europe always gets the cool stuff before we do...
Mini.
GTI is all isolated and rubbery.
Am I even allowed to vote?
-mike
boxermike,
I don't think we can vote given that we're in this too...
What say you Ayatollah?
The Mini is a little more fun and I like its size more but it is, beyond any shadow of a doubt, way way way too expensive for what you're getting and is equipped with a goofy interior that offers some of the most hideous ergonomics available in a modern car. The VW is just more livable.
You guys can vote. Presidential candidates can still vote for president can't they?
You guys have opinions, right? I say Mike's vote should stand.
As someone who's driven both extensively (dad's 07 GTI, girlfriend's dad's 06 MCS) it's a terribly tough call.
I'm going to call it in favor of the GTI for daily liveability - comfort and economy (and, from our experience, reliability. The MCS has been in the shop WAY more than the GTI has, but the GTI has been in for its share as well).
This is IMO the "closest call" in the tournament
GTI! Maybe in 2 or so years GTD!
@rtgarcia,
If your gf's dad's MCS is an '06, then that's the previous-generation supercharged version, i.e. the one with the Chrysler engine made in Brazil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritec_engine
I don't know anything about the new turbocharged MCS's reliability (other than that our long-termer was pretty solid), but it's a different car.
@clarkma,
"The Mini is...beyond any shadow of a doubt, way way way too expensive for what you're getting"
Have to disagree here, and not just because I'm the MCS's appointed advocate in this tournament. The MCS gives you turbocharged drivability and track-ready handling and braking for Civic Si money, it looks cool, and it's got killer fuel economy to boot. I think it's one of the best deals going.
-JS
Snore...this comparo seems so boring. The GTI is a luxury mobile, and the MINI is the cute boutique-y and also the hardcore option(kinda like a Miata.)
The bracket thing is fun, I commented a lot in the WRX/MS3 one since I like those 2 cars a lot, but it really seems like all of the choices have a distinct enough personality most people know where they lie already. Once you decide AWD or FWD, then you decide if comfort/usefulness or performance is the priority, then figure your price sensetivity, and lastly whether or not you will consider a Chevy. Answer those questions, and I can pick the car for you out of the bracket.
It is fun arguing the merits though.
Myself I can't get over VW and their high prices with low quality. Maybe they are better now but I can't forgive them for the giant POS that is my sisters 2001 Turbo Beetle. Plus the GTI is too soft, it has no sort of edge, nothing to make you think you are driving something with some character.
Gotta go MINI. As for the silly dash layout, guess I could just randomly paw at all the unlabeled switches until something cool happens.
"Have to disagree here, and not just because I'm the MCS's appointed advocate in this tournament. The MCS gives you turbocharged drivability and track-ready handling and braking for Civic Si money"
Admittedly haven't looked at the pricing lately, but don't you have to be really light on the options sheet with a MINI to come in at Civic Si money? It is really easy to option these things right up over 30k with all of the packages and options. It would be telling to figure the price of the MINI with the same equipment as the GTI.
The MINI is way beyond the Si in performance and track worthiness though.
"...but don't you have to be really light on the options sheet with a MINI to come in at Civic Si money?"
Yes and no. Yes, you can nearly double a Mini's price by going hog wild on the options sheet. On the other hand, many things are easy to say 'no' to (at least for me).
$300 to change the headliner from gray to black? Uh, no.
$500 for an HDRadio unit that sounds no better than FM and cuts in and out all the time? Don't think so.
$500 for parking sensors? On a 12 foot car? Are you kidding me?
$500 for power folding mirrors? The darn thing is more than a foot narrower than a minivan!
$1000 to punch a huge hole in the roof and cover it with a net for a sunshade? No way.
GTI!
Firstly, voting mini. The GTI is very very comfortable and yet still fun to drive. If my grandpa wanted a hot hatch I'd recommend it. Something easy on the joints and that wouldn't scare him with a crazy interior but can still scoot. However the mini is just to much of a kick in the pants not to vote for. It's like a poor mans lotus, or conversely an expensive miata for someone who somehow got convinced a mini is more manly than a miata.
That being said, neither car would make my short list. Both are to expensive, both are to unreliable, both are under powered, and both are to cramped for a daily driver.
"$500 for parking sensors? On a 12 foot car? Are you kidding me?
$500 for power folding mirrors? The darn thing is more than a foot narrower than a minivan!"
lol
I vote GTI. The sports suspension on the Mini Beats you up too much in day to day driving away from the track. That and the Mini costs more when optioned similarly.
The GTI also has a better interior, room for people in the back, AND is quite comfy yet sporty which is good away from the track. Its good on the track and great off the track which is where normal people drive 98% of the time. Better Roadtrip car too!
GTI>MINI
+1 for Mini.
"The GTI also has a better interior, room for people in the back, AND is quite comfy yet sporty which is good away from the track. Its good on the track and great off the track which is where normal people drive 98% of the time. Better Roadtrip car too!"
better road trip car? you've got to be kidding me, I wouldn't be stuffed in the back of either of these things for more than a trip across town. If road trips are your thing your not buying either of these.
MCS all the way.
Not only is the cooler car, it's also the cooler company...sending welcome packages, creating online games, and even custom billboards!
MINI goes beyond the sale and makes you part of the club. That's cool.
I've owned a Clubman S and now own an R32...GTI all the way. If you've never driven a Cooper S, the torque steer is like no other front driver on the market...."demonic" is the word that comes to mind....it was the reason I got rid of it after only 8 months of ownership. Hip? Yes Cool? Yes Fun? Sure, if there is noone in the left lane...
As a current driver of a MCS JCW, who previously has owned a GTI, the winner is the GTI. The GTI is more of a daily driver, quiet and more convenient for the majority of drivers. The Mini is a lot of fun, but, the noise, torque steer and the "no flat tires", make the car uncomfortable for long trips ( more than 20 miles).
I vote GTI, you get better mileage in the MINI but I have a child and need the room and four doors of the GTI.
This is tough. Both have rich heritage, road handling manners, and loads of character. The GTI is more luxury and refined; with more space. The MINI has an edge for it's track worthiness.
Even with that said, I can see myself enjoying the MINI for a few months and quickly getting annoyed with the lack of space and other quirks.
For today... The GTI.
I've owned VW's and a Mini (2003). GTI all the way.
I don't know if the bracket system is a great face off here... the Cobalt in the finals? If you can past the interior and if you are intent on track numbers only -- maybe. If your criteria is long term livability as well then I think both the Mini and GTI would get beyond the Cobalt.
The GTI is the overall better car, but this is a hot hatch competition. For its weight/size, the GTI has too little power......and it's too refined to be a hot hatch.
Umm..the word "hatch" implies everyday practicality, and the GTI is much better in this regard. The mini is TINY, GTI is sized just right IMHO. Not to mention GTI is a much better value for money, and you really should compare GTI Mk6 that's coming out in a few months, not the MkV. The MK6 fixes the awkward styling and feels and looks much more like a true hot hatch.
"your comfy luxurious commuter, and your nimble high capable track car."
"Its good on the track and great off the track"
The GTI is a weak kneed marshmallow mobile comapred to the MINI and every other car in the "bracket". It is not good on the track, just because you say it doesn't mean it is true. It is far and away the softest of all, it is even softer than the 08 WRX IMO.
But buying a car because it is good on the track is pretty much pointless unless you are making money racing.
I am a fan of both hatchbacks. The VW looks pretty decent, a little bit of an eye catcher. it does have spacious interior that is well made. but no matter what way you look at it, the MINI is the shit! it may be expensive, but it does carry BMWs blast proof bumper-to-bumper warranty. Nothing sticks to the road like a MINI, so there is no point in even mentioning the VWs handling. the VW does go 0-60 in about the same time as the MINI, but the MINI has a smaller engine; which means better gas milage.
Even with a fully loaded VW, it cant compete with the MINIs luxery. The MINI is so customizable. The VW has a small sunroof, & for the same price you can get a dual-pane panoramic vista sunroof on a MINI. making the sky almost as open as with a convertible. i do andmit though, the MINIs horrible appointed volume controle knob is very poorly placed & looks cheap & just flat out bad. but everything else about the MINI is great & runs that oversized, underpowerd, 'grandpaws hatchback' Volkswagen into the ground.
As for the Metrosexual one being the Volkswagen-- i agree. the MINI is deff. the Homosexual one. But at the same time, you DO NOT have to be gay to love a MINI, by any strech of the immagination. If your a 'strong, manly, mulley wearing, monster trunk enthousiest' then your not gonna drive any hatch back anyways. but those straight guys that are confortible with their sexuality & dont have to compensate for their short-commings... the MINI is still the better choice.
so this devoted MINI fan has to stick with my fav.-- The MINI! <3
Gotta vote for MINI.
GTI is boring. The suspension is too soft, power to weight ratio is too low. Sure you get a more comfy ride because it's soft, but we are comparing 2 hot hatches here. You can always get a more comfy daily driver than either of these two if that's your most important objective selecting a car.
Both got excellent performance. GTI is a little more practical, but MINI has the shining personality that is not present in a GTI. Exterior and interior styling of GTI is just ordinary, nothing to mention about. But a MINI won't pass by unnoticed.
vote for MINI.
I voted with my wallet:
Mini.
Is voting still open? MINI all the way!
I vote Mini. It handles impeccably.